As regards having fun and playing efficiently, I fail to see the dichotomy if not the distinction. It's been a while since I played, and what I miss the most is 1) figuring out how to make the most of what little time I have to play and 2) putting on some coffee, loud, fast-paced music and grinding mindlessly for a few hours until real life demands that I do something that matters. There is of course no intrinsic point to playing this way, in the sense that how fast you progress doesn't affect anything besides how fast you progress. No one else cares, and if you don't either, then play differently. But to say that instead of playing efficiently one should play for fun, is a meaningless statement unless playing for fun somehow entails not playing efficiently. Certainly for me, it can occationally be more fun to wander around aimlessly in-game while talking to friends on skype. But usually it's more fun to play fast and to see how much you can do in a given time. D3 for me is a racing game where the finishing line is the (reasonably relative) inability to get further upgrades and paragon benefits.
That having been said, I much prefer finding the efficient way to do it myself (in terms of which route to take, what to pick up, whether to do it solo or multiplayer, if so what classes, which build is more efficient etc). If you simply search the forums for an answer, then - in my opinon - you rob yourself. "Hacking" the game is half the game.
Personally I think looking for the most efficient farming route for your playstyle is a fun challenge. Of course, once I've found it and done it a few times, I'll switch to something else regardless of efficiency. To the OP, I suggest my half-assed but likely sufficient method:
1) Pick out the zones in each act that intuitively strike you as being the most dense or efficient, maybe half of the total number of zones.
2) Do these zones in each act ten times, along the same route (something practical like a circle from WP or something). Write down XP/hour for each zone for each playthrough, so you have a good average that will more or less cancel out variables such as xp shrine or whatever.
3) Pick the 3 most efficient zones in terms of your recorded XP/h from each act, and do them in order for variety and efficiency, or simply do the 3 zones from the most efficient act if you prefer robot-like grinding. You can safely assume that higher xp=more loot, since every kill is a chance for loot (more kills per second = more xp/loot per second).
4) Share findings with us (include build of course).
Bagstone: Focus on enjoying that part of the experience as long as you can, without checking wikis and such. I've played terraria for about 600 hours the last two years (it's like gaming crack to me), and the first part - before you know how to rush the item tiers, semi-exploit the bosses and combine items into builds - is by far the most rewarding part. It's really an exploration game as much as a farming/building game.
I wish nothing more than to be able to unlearn everything and start over.
Re: houses, it is indeed possible to make them entirely safe. I.e. build them high, and use lava at strategic places; just not so high that a wyvern can spawn in hardmode - you can tell that roughly from the treetops in the background image. It is even possible against goblin armies and blood moons, if you use wire to make traps.
I am very happy with blizzard's decision, even though I did enjoy AH-tycooning during autumn 2012; now, having played the console version for a few weeks, I am convinced that the economy aspect was detrimental to fun. That being said, it's clear that trade-chat-spamming and entering games with strangers is a horrible, twisted alternative. I'd much rather they just made everything soulbound, if that is the only option. It isn't though.
One suggestion to replace the AH: A series of specific sub-channels for trade, let's say "want to buy/sell armor/weapon/supplies", preferably even more specific so that spam is at a minimum. And, more importantly, a mailbox tied to your account which does not require you to be in the same game for trades. It would be a pay-on-delivery system, where the agreed upon price would be specified in advance by the seller. For example, you want to sell your stone of jordan for 12 gems, some other player agrees, you send him the SoJ and he can only remove it from his mailbox after he has inserted the 12 gems.
Reasonably safe, and much too slow and cumbersome for market speculation.
I was assuming that 're-roll' just means re-roll the actual number, like turning +12 dex into +132 dex, not re-rolling the entire affix, like turning +34 arcance resistance into +6% IAS. Has Blizzard actually clearly signaled which kind of re-rolling they mean?
Yes, it is clear from tweets and blue posts that rerolling means rerolling an affix to a new, random affix (and by extension, a new value). It's safe to assume that we get more than one try, otherwise - given the number of possible affixes - it will do little.
You can use the mystic to reroll any property on your weapon. And like mentioned, the rerolled property can scale to 70, or whatever level your character is. The cost of rerolling can be high (gold-wise, materials, etc.), maybe if can be limited to a certain number per day, who knows. Now, by going through the process of rerolling, you'd inevitably have to farm. While farming, you can potentially find a better item. You may end up just replacing the item you're planning on enchanting. Or you can go to the mystic to reroll stats. It gives you options and things to do.
That sounds good to me. More things to do is ultimately what D3 needs.
That is very interesting, and unexpected. If it can reroll more affixes on the same item, and the same affix several times, then the current gear, except possibly for weapon damage and armor, is 100% viable come RoS. Still, only 1/3 of the necessary conditions satisfied.
I'm hoping it either won't be viable, or that making it viable would be tantamount in challenge to finding new (this I am hoping for, since it is a bit more fair than an effective reset). Otherwise, what is the point of the expantion. It's so easy to get to the point where upgrades become unlikely; an important motivation for itemization overhaul should be to lengthen the time of improvement sufficiently that it, in itself, constitutes an end-game.
A big however, however, is RoS. I can't possible imagine that our current gear will have any uses there. Even if the mystic allows you to upgrade it, how would that be different from just identifying a new item for the same slot? I assume that rerolling an affix will mean rerolling it not to a new value, but to a new affix AND value.
We really don't know that yet. It could be just values, it could be an entirely new roll.
But if our +80 All Res, +300 Armor, +6% Crit Chance are still useable (read: still end-game'ish) in RoS, I can see the current gear being able to have their Stats (main + vit) rerolled to RoS values, which seem to go way over 300, and still be extremely useful items.
And even if some affixes get a better cap (like Bracers being capable of rolling up to 8% crit chance), the current ones will definitely still hold strong until an upgrade is found for them.
The only gear I fear will get obsolete really fast is our weapons (if the numbers we have now can be used as reference - 3k DPS weapons!).
Like I said, an assumption, not truth. Still, I agree with your assessment of CC, CHD, IAS caps and such, not being raised an awful lot. It's a distinct possibility. But consider what the OP asked and what makes gear valuable today. It's generally not practical difference, but statistical rarity. I.e., why keep a 10/100/9 amulet worth 5b now, if the patch allows for 12/120/10, say, when you can sell that amulet for 5b and buy another one that has 9/80/7 for 1b. It won't stop you killing things until you find one of those new ones after the patch hits. (Probably a bad example, I haven't logged on and checked the AH for months).
I would guess that this discussion is mixing up what Blizzard have said, and what their intentions are; my impression was that our existing gear would not become obsolete with loot 2.0, as new items will be more build-specific, you might still want to have a generally good EHP/DPS gear (achievable now).
A big however, however, is RoS. I can't possible imagine that our current gear will have any uses there. Even if the mystic allows you to upgrade it, how would that be different from just identifying a new item for the same slot? I assume that rerolling an affix will mean rerolling it not to a new value, but to a new affix AND value. Otherwise it would be terribly easy to get good gear. And I further assume that not all affixes can be rerolled on the same item. There's bound to be a limit. And there's no mystic in the vanilla side of the patch.
There are a few reasons not to sell, of course, the first one being that you need something to use right away when the patch hits (you could downgrade at a profit, perhaps), secondly, that you need something until then if you are one of the people that still play. As for inflation, that could be solved by selling to RMAH.
My guess would be that demonic essences will be replaced by a higher tier of essences, like ninja essences. I assume gold will be next to worthless as well, because rerolling stats etc. will most likely involve some form of binding to account. The only thing that makes sense to hoard right now is paragon.
Adding to that, hardcore seems the best place to do it. Even if you find hardcore a bit too hardcore at the moment ,like I do, having died a few times to lag, imagine how it will be when the patch hits and you don't loose paragon points. It will be a proper diablo experience, where you can constantly get new upgrades and don't have to rely on an inflated economy. Plus, you can reinvest your points in defense.
Edit: I agree with the above poster that whatever experience you get now will have little effect once the patch hits, due to higher xp ranges at level 70.
thats your opinion, also, I am not selfish, but I think they made well enough PVE changes already because its they priority like they said, but there will always be PVE stuff that need changes, are they going to ignored PVP forever ?
I cant imagine a scenario in which PVP couldnt be fun if its not pay to win.
Fair point. To your last sentence, me and some others tried this for a while after brawling was introduced, using the rule of "blues only". It got horribly boring quick. Doesn't mean you will find it boring - my point is just that you can get some people together and try it. Just go blues with vit rolls; you will survive a few punches, and will be able to prototype how it would feel with semi-balanced gear.
My personal opinion: I can't even imagine a scenario, even not limited by realism, in which PvP would be fun in diablo 3. Sure I had fun (for a few hours) killing my friends and my brother 10-15 years ago in the diablo setting. But back then, even playing with other people online was fascinating, regardless of what you were playing. Right now, it seems like a horrible engine/setting for PVP compared to other games that offer something similar, like dota1-2, HoN and LoL.
I don't mind them catering to the preferences of PvPers however, as I'm not selfish. But I admit that I would be very dissappointed if Nephalem Trials was a PVP arena instead of an endless dungeon, which - incidentally - I think is the best option for (noncommittal and "friendly) competitive play.
Well, I watched Josh's presentation and he did indeed say paragon is endless. I can't see how that's possible if all the attributes have a cap.
I would guess after a certain level you have maxed out all the paragon stats, but can still increase the paragon level for wall pissing rights.
It is likely still that the utility bar has a time-consuming point sinks, of a trivial nature. I.e. once you've maxed core, attack and defense, (which honestly I doubt will be imbalanced, probably more like paragon 100 now plus 500k ehp 200k dps), after an amazing amount of hours, then you can invest points in movement speed, bag space, TP cooldown reduction, etc.. After that it is hard to think of examples, but certainly new banners/dyes/colors are an option, as well as pets. They'd have to be cosmetic, and very likely of a wall pissing nature. But they could be released often enough to keep players from reaching the end.
What do you guys think about the timeline now? I stopped playing d3 sometime between christmas and easter, and I'm getting ready to pick it up again. As far as I know, loot 2.0 will follow blizzcon, but it seems unrealistic to expect the expantion in early 2014. More like summer at the earilest. So I don't think the system changes in loot 2.0 will be a primer for the expantion in a direct sense. A lot of assumptions here, I know.
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That having been said, I much prefer finding the efficient way to do it myself (in terms of which route to take, what to pick up, whether to do it solo or multiplayer, if so what classes, which build is more efficient etc). If you simply search the forums for an answer, then - in my opinon - you rob yourself. "Hacking" the game is half the game.
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1) Pick out the zones in each act that intuitively strike you as being the most dense or efficient, maybe half of the total number of zones.
2) Do these zones in each act ten times, along the same route (something practical like a circle from WP or something). Write down XP/hour for each zone for each playthrough, so you have a good average that will more or less cancel out variables such as xp shrine or whatever.
3) Pick the 3 most efficient zones in terms of your recorded XP/h from each act, and do them in order for variety and efficiency, or simply do the 3 zones from the most efficient act if you prefer robot-like grinding. You can safely assume that higher xp=more loot, since every kill is a chance for loot (more kills per second = more xp/loot per second).
4) Share findings with us (include build of course).
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I wish nothing more than to be able to unlearn everything and start over.
Re: houses, it is indeed possible to make them entirely safe. I.e. build them high, and use lava at strategic places; just not so high that a wyvern can spawn in hardmode - you can tell that roughly from the treetops in the background image. It is even possible against goblin armies and blood moons, if you use wire to make traps.
0
One suggestion to replace the AH: A series of specific sub-channels for trade, let's say "want to buy/sell armor/weapon/supplies", preferably even more specific so that spam is at a minimum. And, more importantly, a mailbox tied to your account which does not require you to be in the same game for trades. It would be a pay-on-delivery system, where the agreed upon price would be specified in advance by the seller. For example, you want to sell your stone of jordan for 12 gems, some other player agrees, you send him the SoJ and he can only remove it from his mailbox after he has inserted the 12 gems.
Reasonably safe, and much too slow and cumbersome for market speculation.
Edit: spelling
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Yes, it is clear from tweets and blue posts that rerolling means rerolling an affix to a new, random affix (and by extension, a new value). It's safe to assume that we get more than one try, otherwise - given the number of possible affixes - it will do little.
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That sounds good to me. More things to do is ultimately what D3 needs.
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I'm hoping it either won't be viable, or that making it viable would be tantamount in challenge to finding new (this I am hoping for, since it is a bit more fair than an effective reset). Otherwise, what is the point of the expantion. It's so easy to get to the point where upgrades become unlikely; an important motivation for itemization overhaul should be to lengthen the time of improvement sufficiently that it, in itself, constitutes an end-game.
0
Like I said, an assumption, not truth. Still, I agree with your assessment of CC, CHD, IAS caps and such, not being raised an awful lot. It's a distinct possibility. But consider what the OP asked and what makes gear valuable today. It's generally not practical difference, but statistical rarity. I.e., why keep a 10/100/9 amulet worth 5b now, if the patch allows for 12/120/10, say, when you can sell that amulet for 5b and buy another one that has 9/80/7 for 1b. It won't stop you killing things until you find one of those new ones after the patch hits. (Probably a bad example, I haven't logged on and checked the AH for months).
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Game -> ??? -> profit
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A big however, however, is RoS. I can't possible imagine that our current gear will have any uses there. Even if the mystic allows you to upgrade it, how would that be different from just identifying a new item for the same slot? I assume that rerolling an affix will mean rerolling it not to a new value, but to a new affix AND value. Otherwise it would be terribly easy to get good gear. And I further assume that not all affixes can be rerolled on the same item. There's bound to be a limit. And there's no mystic in the vanilla side of the patch.
There are a few reasons not to sell, of course, the first one being that you need something to use right away when the patch hits (you could downgrade at a profit, perhaps), secondly, that you need something until then if you are one of the people that still play. As for inflation, that could be solved by selling to RMAH.
0
Adding to that, hardcore seems the best place to do it. Even if you find hardcore a bit too hardcore at the moment ,like I do, having died a few times to lag, imagine how it will be when the patch hits and you don't loose paragon points. It will be a proper diablo experience, where you can constantly get new upgrades and don't have to rely on an inflated economy. Plus, you can reinvest your points in defense.
Edit: I agree with the above poster that whatever experience you get now will have little effect once the patch hits, due to higher xp ranges at level 70.
0
Fair point. To your last sentence, me and some others tried this for a while after brawling was introduced, using the rule of "blues only". It got horribly boring quick. Doesn't mean you will find it boring - my point is just that you can get some people together and try it. Just go blues with vit rolls; you will survive a few punches, and will be able to prototype how it would feel with semi-balanced gear.
0
I don't mind them catering to the preferences of PvPers however, as I'm not selfish. But I admit that I would be very dissappointed if Nephalem Trials was a PVP arena instead of an endless dungeon, which - incidentally - I think is the best option for (noncommittal and "friendly) competitive play.
Edit: spelling.
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It is likely still that the utility bar has a time-consuming point sinks, of a trivial nature. I.e. once you've maxed core, attack and defense, (which honestly I doubt will be imbalanced, probably more like paragon 100 now plus 500k ehp 200k dps), after an amazing amount of hours, then you can invest points in movement speed, bag space, TP cooldown reduction, etc.. After that it is hard to think of examples, but certainly new banners/dyes/colors are an option, as well as pets. They'd have to be cosmetic, and very likely of a wall pissing nature. But they could be released often enough to keep players from reaching the end.
0