Each character has ONE single skill tree. In diablo2 it was called a tree because each skill was like a leaf (kind of). The synergies were like branches (connecting the skills together). If you saw the D2 skill tree, you will see arrows and boxes with skills. It was like a tree because to get the most powerful skills, you must work up the tree. To get to skill 3, you need skill 1, then skill 2, then you can unlock skill 3.
Skill 1
V
Skill 2
v
Skill 3
Basically, the tree is ALL of the skills in the selection.
In d2, there were 3 tabs. Each tab had a focus of powers. One example is the sorc (easiest example), she had 3 tabs: Fire, Ice, Lightning.
The sorc had a total of 30 skills in her skill tree, but in each tab, she had 10 skills. This means that there are 10 fire skills, 10 ice, and 10 lightning.
(this further explains why its a "tree", its because it is continuously subdividing all the skills)
If you looked at the link of working skill trees that I posted, then you will see a few rows. If you played with it, you will notice that you need 5 skills in each individual row to go to the higher row. Each of these rows is called a tierre. A tierre (in my words) is a set of something. A tierre of skills is a set of skills that are in the row, and grouped for a reason/
I think really you don't need to put point in the first "tier" you only need to be level 5 to be able to put point in the second "tier".
It's will be like that and it's much better than your concept. I'm also agree that's great to have access to all skills in all trees without investing point in previous skills. Only level requirment.
I think really you don't need to put point in the first "tier" you only need to be level 5 to be able to put point in the second "tier".
It's will be like that and it's much better than your concept. I'm also agree that's great to have access to all skills in all trees without investing point in previous skills. Only level requirment.
thanks for the correction, I truthefully didn't spend more than a second looking at the skill tree, I just found it and linked it (since I saw it before).
This could give more diversity, and the final system will probably be something like this, but minor details can always be changed.. I personally, won't dwell on these things too much.. I'm more of the type of person to wait and see what happens rather than argue how I want it .. but I will post my ideas that I could imagine would make the game better
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"Not Even Death Can Save You From Me" ~ Diablo (II)
They say they want to give the monk a "fighter" feel, so why not make it so the effectiveness of certain high tier skills be gauged by the execution of a combo.
IE Super Tiger Claw Strike
Would require the player to press W A D D S W D A W in order, the closer it is to the order required and the more "in synch" it is the more damage it does. Similar to DDR...
Or another way to implement a similar mechanic is to right click left click, and the number of clicks determine the number of punches.
This would be a very interesting mechanic and would defiantly make the monk unique as a playable character, but also a additional resource system, and give a very "fighting game feel"
Oufffff !!! I'm feeling sick when I read your idea !! Diablo is not a fighting game !! I don't want learn many insignificant, meanless and unlogical combinations of keys to be powerful in game. It's a logical game, it's work with stats not ability to learn and quickly type the combination.
So do you think it's better to have only requirment or having to spend an amount of point to pass next tier ?
Do you understand why I hated your concept and I find that decreasing the customization ?
Anyway blizzard will make it great !
SORRY FOR THE LENGTH
I haven't posted in a while, but I'll just leave you something to think about.
When blizz makes these skill trees they have to think about possible ways people will use them. If one skill is useless in most builds, it probably shouldn't be in the game. It is impossible to make the game completely balanced in a way where one build isn't as powerful as the others, because that would be boring, and it would also make all the builds too similar, even if they have different attacks.
Blizz wants to give us diversity, but it is impossible to make a game without boundaries. There has to be some sort of requirement, or pre-requisite that prevents us from just getting the most powerful skills. In D2, we had synergies, but these made extremely predictable builds, and prevented you from being creative, since you wanted to have a maxed out lightning sorc, you need to max out all the synergies.
I will just let you know that I'm taking an American Government course, and it reminded me a lot about the distribution of power between State Government and Federal Government. Pretty much, for those who don't know, the founding fathers had to decide how much power each state has, and how much power the central government has.
In Diablo games, there is a separation of power between Items, Skills/skill points invested, runes, and charms and upgrades.
If you compare wizards: Each wizard can get the same exact skills, and be just as strong. This means that since all wizards can be exactly the same from the perspective of skills, the skills should be the weak deciding factor.
Runes just change how the damage is distributed, and are supposedly easy to obtain (not counting the super rare ones). Runes just alter the skills, and how they damage enemies..They expand the idea of the skill.. Runes shouldn't be the "thing" that decides what makes 2 characters different.
Since diablo is an Item game, I think one way to think of it, is having items and charms be the most influencial in how powerful your skills are. There doesn't need to be character specific items, but when a wizard wears a wizard's armor, he should receive it's benefits, PLUS, the extra benefits only for a wizard. For instance, +2 for ice shield.
A Barbarian can wear the wizard's armor, but he only receives the basic benefits. I feel that the items and charms should have more benefits for the wearer. For instance, if a barbarian wears a specific barbarian armor, then he will receive "increased stamina gain with each attack".
I also think that even common items should have +1 to frost nova, or stuff like that. In D2 only unique, and rare items had this. The more rare items in d3, would just have +6 to Warp Time, rather than +1. This gives more power to the items, rather than the specific build you have.
In D2, there should be a small bag where you could hold a certain amount of charms, so this means you could find an "extra hp" charm and it would give you plus 100 hp. while someone else would have a "poison charm" and it would give them poison damage to all attacks.
The reason I compare this to the American Government, is because each state has it's own power, but the central government always over rules it, and is always the deciding factor. In this analogy, Charms and Items are the Centeral government, or the most important, while the skill points and builds are important, but only construct a base for your build.
Pretty much, in this basic idea, the items and charms you use truly differentiate between 2 characters, but IN ADDITION to all this diversity, one character wears these 6 skill runes, and also has his personal skills invested in a certain way.
Combining (the major) items and charms, with the (minor) runes, skill distribution, and upgrades of sorts, we have diversity in characters.
Back to your question: I prefer having to invest x amount of points in any tier, to reach the next tier.
You can invest 15 points in tier one, and then go straight to investing in tier 3.
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"Not Even Death Can Save You From Me" ~ Diablo (II)
The importance if items it's what I hated from d2, I understand exacly what you said but I want the contrary : skill and stats make the major diversity and after the items make the minor modifications. But I think the equality of both it's a good balance. Skills and items must be a good modifications.
If only items make the big part of customization, the customization will be only depending of randomness but I want my logic to find a build to make a character strong and not my luck to find items.....
Yeah I'm stronger than you : Yeah you don't find a good build with your brain ; you only play more than me and has a better luck to find good loots !! wtf ...
The importance if items it's what I hated from d2, I understand exacly what you said but I want the contrary : skill and stats make the major diversity and after the items make the minor modifications. But I think the equality of both it's a good balance. Skills and items must be a good modifications.
If only items make the big part of customization, the customization will be only depending of randomness but I want my logic to find a build to make a character strong and not my luck to find items.....
Yeah I'm stronger than you : Yeah you don't find a good build with your brain ; you only play more than me and has a better luck to find good loots !! wtf ...
I completely understand what your saying, and I'm not opposing your idea, or advocating for mine, I don't think I could say which system is better without actually seeing it in action.
BUT, if I had to decide, I would have to prefer having many "things" that make characters different from each other. I don't think skills should completely decide how strong your character is, like it did in D2. If your build was weak, then you were weak. I would like the build to be the structure of your build, saying that I have 15 points in arcane blast (or whatever), because I used 15 skill points to max this skill out, this will be a major skill in my arsenal. Then, on top of having your skills define who your character is, the items should make a HUGE difference in how much stronger your attack will be. Maybe maxing this skill out gives you a strong attack, but wearing a helmet that gives +4 and armor that gives +7 to this skill will be extremely influencial.
(now, items that give higher than +4 or 5, should be extremely rare, but I would like common items to have +1 to x skill, and +2 to y skill. I want to look at an item with +2 and think I can find way better.)
Also, just because you think you're building a "build" using your logic, doesn't mean anything; it is the logic of the developers. You can't use common sense (all the time) in a videogame, unless it was made in which these "rules" apply.
I think Skill distribution = Base of character
Items = Influencial Role in deciding the over all strength of a character.
charms = addition to the character's strength, but not extremely influencial.
Runes = Change how the damage is distributed, how strong the attack is, how the skill acts in general. This shouldn't be a major "thing" but it could change a small attack to an aoe attack.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Not Even Death Can Save You From Me" ~ Diablo (II)
I completely understand what your saying, and I'm not opposing your idea, or advocating for mine, I don't think I could say which system is better without actually seeing it in action.
BUT, if I had to decide, I would have to prefer having many "things" that make characters different from each other. I don't think skills should completely decide how strong your character is, like it did in D2. If your build was weak, then you were weak. I would like the build to be the structure of your build, saying that I have 15 points in arcane blast (or whatever), because I used 15 skill points to max this skill out, this will be a major skill in my arsenal. Then, on top of having your skills define who your character is, the items should make a HUGE difference in how much stronger your attack will be. Maybe maxing this skill out gives you a strong attack, but wearing a helmet that gives +4 and armor that gives +7 to this skill will be extremely influencial.
(now, items that give higher than +4 or 5, should be extremely rare, but I would like common items to have +1 to x skill, and +2 to y skill. I want to look at an item with +2 and think I can find way better.)
Also, just because you think you're building a "build" using your logic, doesn't mean anything; it is the logic of the developers. You can't use common sense (all the time) in a videogame, unless it was made in which these "rules" apply.
I think Skill distribution = Base of character
Items = Influencial Role in deciding the over all strength of a character.
charms = addition to the character's strength, but not extremely influencial.
Runes = Change how the damage is distributed, how strong the attack is, how the skill acts in general. This shouldn't be a major "thing" but it could change a small attack to an aoe attack.
Yeah like what you said I think a balance between all these mod can be good. I just hope something, conserning +x skill. I don't want it like d2. I want many +x skill more common OR I don't want it. If it's more common, the modification need to be less effective, because it's will be too easy to be over powered, like you said an item that give +4 skills wooo ! I'll be able to got +20skills easily ?! In d2, +x skills are too rare so when you found it you'll always almost wear it. I want have choice to decide if it's better or not. With many commons items that bring +x skill and not +x to all skills I think it's will be good.
Anyway you understand my point, that I don't want the strengh of character come from luck.
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I think you misunderstand the concept of your link :
http://www.diablo-source.com/index.php?cmd=skill
I think really you don't need to put point in the first "tier" you only need to be level 5 to be able to put point in the second "tier".
It's will be like that and it's much better than your concept. I'm also agree that's great to have access to all skills in all trees without investing point in previous skills. Only level requirment.
thanks for the correction, I truthefully didn't spend more than a second looking at the skill tree, I just found it and linked it (since I saw it before).
This could give more diversity, and the final system will probably be something like this, but minor details can always be changed.. I personally, won't dwell on these things too much.. I'm more of the type of person to wait and see what happens rather than argue how I want it .. but I will post my ideas that I could imagine would make the game better
So do you think it's better to have only requirment or having to spend an amount of point to pass next tier ?
Do you understand why I hated your concept and I find that decreasing the customization ?
Anyway blizzard will make it great !
Oufffff !!! I'm feeling sick when I read your idea !! Diablo is not a fighting game !! I don't want learn many insignificant, meanless and unlogical combinations of keys to be powerful in game. It's a logical game, it's work with stats not ability to learn and quickly type the combination.
SORRY FOR THE LENGTH
I haven't posted in a while, but I'll just leave you something to think about.
When blizz makes these skill trees they have to think about possible ways people will use them. If one skill is useless in most builds, it probably shouldn't be in the game. It is impossible to make the game completely balanced in a way where one build isn't as powerful as the others, because that would be boring, and it would also make all the builds too similar, even if they have different attacks.
Blizz wants to give us diversity, but it is impossible to make a game without boundaries. There has to be some sort of requirement, or pre-requisite that prevents us from just getting the most powerful skills. In D2, we had synergies, but these made extremely predictable builds, and prevented you from being creative, since you wanted to have a maxed out lightning sorc, you need to max out all the synergies.
I will just let you know that I'm taking an American Government course, and it reminded me a lot about the distribution of power between State Government and Federal Government. Pretty much, for those who don't know, the founding fathers had to decide how much power each state has, and how much power the central government has.
In Diablo games, there is a separation of power between Items, Skills/skill points invested, runes, and charms and upgrades.
If you compare wizards: Each wizard can get the same exact skills, and be just as strong. This means that since all wizards can be exactly the same from the perspective of skills, the skills should be the weak deciding factor.
Runes just change how the damage is distributed, and are supposedly easy to obtain (not counting the super rare ones). Runes just alter the skills, and how they damage enemies..They expand the idea of the skill.. Runes shouldn't be the "thing" that decides what makes 2 characters different.
Since diablo is an Item game, I think one way to think of it, is having items and charms be the most influencial in how powerful your skills are. There doesn't need to be character specific items, but when a wizard wears a wizard's armor, he should receive it's benefits, PLUS, the extra benefits only for a wizard. For instance, +2 for ice shield.
A Barbarian can wear the wizard's armor, but he only receives the basic benefits. I feel that the items and charms should have more benefits for the wearer. For instance, if a barbarian wears a specific barbarian armor, then he will receive "increased stamina gain with each attack".
I also think that even common items should have +1 to frost nova, or stuff like that. In D2 only unique, and rare items had this. The more rare items in d3, would just have +6 to Warp Time, rather than +1. This gives more power to the items, rather than the specific build you have.
In D2, there should be a small bag where you could hold a certain amount of charms, so this means you could find an "extra hp" charm and it would give you plus 100 hp. while someone else would have a "poison charm" and it would give them poison damage to all attacks.
The reason I compare this to the American Government, is because each state has it's own power, but the central government always over rules it, and is always the deciding factor. In this analogy, Charms and Items are the Centeral government, or the most important, while the skill points and builds are important, but only construct a base for your build.
Pretty much, in this basic idea, the items and charms you use truly differentiate between 2 characters, but IN ADDITION to all this diversity, one character wears these 6 skill runes, and also has his personal skills invested in a certain way.
Combining (the major) items and charms, with the (minor) runes, skill distribution, and upgrades of sorts, we have diversity in characters.
Back to your question: I prefer having to invest x amount of points in any tier, to reach the next tier.
You can invest 15 points in tier one, and then go straight to investing in tier 3.
The importance if items it's what I hated from d2, I understand exacly what you said but I want the contrary : skill and stats make the major diversity and after the items make the minor modifications. But I think the equality of both it's a good balance. Skills and items must be a good modifications.
If only items make the big part of customization, the customization will be only depending of randomness but I want my logic to find a build to make a character strong and not my luck to find items.....
Yeah I'm stronger than you : Yeah you don't find a good build with your brain ; you only play more than me and has a better luck to find good loots !! wtf ...
I completely understand what your saying, and I'm not opposing your idea, or advocating for mine, I don't think I could say which system is better without actually seeing it in action.
BUT, if I had to decide, I would have to prefer having many "things" that make characters different from each other. I don't think skills should completely decide how strong your character is, like it did in D2. If your build was weak, then you were weak. I would like the build to be the structure of your build, saying that I have 15 points in arcane blast (or whatever), because I used 15 skill points to max this skill out, this will be a major skill in my arsenal. Then, on top of having your skills define who your character is, the items should make a HUGE difference in how much stronger your attack will be. Maybe maxing this skill out gives you a strong attack, but wearing a helmet that gives +4 and armor that gives +7 to this skill will be extremely influencial.
(now, items that give higher than +4 or 5, should be extremely rare, but I would like common items to have +1 to x skill, and +2 to y skill. I want to look at an item with +2 and think I can find way better.)
Also, just because you think you're building a "build" using your logic, doesn't mean anything; it is the logic of the developers. You can't use common sense (all the time) in a videogame, unless it was made in which these "rules" apply.
I think Skill distribution = Base of character
Items = Influencial Role in deciding the over all strength of a character.
charms = addition to the character's strength, but not extremely influencial.
Runes = Change how the damage is distributed, how strong the attack is, how the skill acts in general. This shouldn't be a major "thing" but it could change a small attack to an aoe attack.
Yeah like what you said I think a balance between all these mod can be good. I just hope something, conserning +x skill. I don't want it like d2. I want many +x skill more common OR I don't want it. If it's more common, the modification need to be less effective, because it's will be too easy to be over powered, like you said an item that give +4 skills wooo ! I'll be able to got +20skills easily ?! In d2, +x skills are too rare so when you found it you'll always almost wear it. I want have choice to decide if it's better or not. With many commons items that bring +x skill and not +x to all skills I think it's will be good.
Anyway you understand my point, that I don't want the strengh of character come from luck.