First of all, fastest is imbalanced. Real SC players don't play fastest. Like, AT ALL. It harms 1v1 skill playing fastest and or UMS.
Second of all, while there is an infinite amount of minerals, if I get more expoes than he does, I can make more units faster. So I still win. In fact, I was playing some guy who camped on fastest and I won, just expanded all over the map
But, yea, fastest doesn't count. In real games, resources are limited.
First of all, fastest is imbalanced. Real SC players don't play fastest. Like, AT ALL. It harms 1v1 skill playing fastest and or UMS.
Second of all, while there is an infinite amount of minerals, if I get more expoes than he does, I can make more units faster. So I still win. In fact, I was playing some guy who camped on fastest and I won, just expanded all over the map
But, yea, fastest doesn't count. In real games, resources are limited.
How ignorant of you to disregard fastest players as legitimate players. A skill set is required. Just not the one you're use to. I gurantee the skill level between me and you on a fastest game is miles apart. Do not degrade something, just because you are not good at it. What imbalance are you referring to? Real SC players DO play fastest maps.
How ignorant of you to disregard fastest players as legitimate players.
Fastest is imbalanced towards Protoss because they mass the best. Zerg are imba due to excess of resource. End of story.
The map is 9 squares, it does not include shortage of resources, how can it be balanced? Pure macro, and NOTHING else.
Quote from "wo0tstick" »
A skill set is required.
That doesn't make a setup good. Or balanced.
Quote from "wo0tstick" »
I gurantee the skill level between me and you on a fastest game is miles apart.
Simply because I don't play Fastest and I was never interested in it.
Quote from "wo0tstick" »
Real SC players DO play fastest maps.
I didn't notice. If anyone plays Fastest, UMS, or BGH, it's usually for pure fun. According to Lord of Flames on Gosugamers, playing these types of maps DAMAGES regular melee 1v1 skill. So I don't even bother to learn to play them. I never saw anyone do anything special, engaging, interesting in those games. They just mass units of primary levels.
I also don't remember a single Fastest/UMS replay on the gosugamers replay page...
I didn't notice. If anyone plays Fastest, UMS, or BGH, it's usually for pure fun. According to Lord of Flames on Gosugamers, playing these types of maps DAMAGES regular melee 1v1 skill.
Well vice versa as well. If I play LT for too long, I lose alot of my skill level on the fastest maps. Just because you spend all of your time conversing with blizz map players, doesn't mean you should disregard fastest players as having skill. I've devoted so much of my time into fastest maps, and to have someone say, "those aren't REAL sc players" is rather offensive. Because I know I'm skillful, and I know I'm good... I have equal respect for pro LT players as I do pro fastest players. Both require quite a bit of skill to do well.
If you don't find fastest maps engaging or interesting. Fine, that is your preference and opinion. Put any pro LT player on a fastest map against me and they wouldn't really look that pro. If it's such an easy concept. Unlimited minerals - Mass units. Then why can one person be so much better than another.
I don't really know these "gosugamers" that you keep referencing. Nor does it really matter. One persons opinion is just as good as another. I know sites where you wouldn't find a blizz map in sight. It's all fastest.
The only imbalances that I would agree with is templar storms and the narrow passages. One storm can wipe out all 50-75 miners. It's a rather cheap technique to use. But every one uses it so you just have to get use to it. As far as narrow passages, a newb can put a few cannons at the choke of his base and create a headache for any skilled-player.
I personally get abour half a dozen cannos, 3 dozen zealots, then either make some 'goons or mass dark templar, depending on what my inital assault reveals about the enemy base.
Zerg, I'm a noob camper, end of story.
I don't even play as Terran, so I mainly just mass Marines with the occasional Medic and Science Vessel thrown in.
There is currently a zerg exploit that gives the user 500 minerals per larva cancelled. I'd think blizzard would have patched it by now considering it's been around for several months. I couldn't even begin to imagine how unfair that exploit is on a normal blizz map. Has anyone noticed it?
Well vice versa as well. If I play LT for too long, I lose alot of my skill level on the fastest maps.
LT is imbalanced for Zerg, btw. And for 12/9... and for all the cliffing Terran can do... LT sucks. Fastest is probably more balanced than LT lol
Quote from "wo0tstick" »
If it's such an easy concept. Unlimited minerals - Mass units. Then why can one person be so much better than another.
I'm pretty sure people with 250+ APM won't have issues playing you because fastest is pure macro (unless you have a rep showing you do something besides macroing in there). Except if you ask me to find you a 250+ APM player I can't do that, they don't play with noobs like me.
The reason why people in fastest are so equal is because everyone just reaches the peak pretty fast and stays there. In SC 1v1, reaching the peak is rather hard.
Quote from "wo0tstick" »
I don't really know these "gosugamers" that you keep referencing. Nor does it really matter. One persons opinion is just as good as another. I know sites where you wouldn't find a blizz map in sight. It's all fastest.
http://sc.gosugamers.net/
It's a site with replays of professional Korean (and other countries) players. They do some crazy stuff there. 1v1 and 2v2. When it comes to those styles of play, gosugamers are the ones to trust.
BTW you don't see LT on there, mind you... They have Reverse Temple but LT is really rare.
Quote from "wo0tstick" »
As far as narrow passages, a newb can put a few cannons at the choke of his base and create a headache for any skilled-player.
Well, I expected something like this.
Quote from "wo0tstick" »
I like my games a little more fast paced.
What's your 1v1 APM, exactly?
I really don't mind if you play fastest or whatever you choose to play, but, I do mind when you compare tactics on different game styles. I mean there is no way camping can work in a normal, non-money 1v1 on a certified WGT/PGT/ICCUP/Ladder map...
Fastest is a whole other playstyle I don't know much about. It functions in a completely different way so you are kinda talking about a whole other SC here. I said "Camping is a 100% losing strat on a certified map in a 1v1". On a CERTIFIED map, e.g., WGT/PGT/ICCUP kind of map. Fastest are different. And you replied: "if u played fastest possible map ud realize u never run outta money till u get like 9999999999999999 minerals" That kinda sounded like you are some of those players who can't play anything, be it fastest, UMS, 1v1, or 2v2, or BGH.
Quote from "wo0tstick" »
There is currently a zerg exploit that gives the user 500 minerals per larva cancelled. I'd think blizzard would have patched it by now considering it's been around for several months. I couldn't even begin to imagine how unfair that exploit is on a normal blizz map. Has anyone noticed it?
"if u played fastest possible map ud realize u never run outta money till u get like 9999999999999999 minerals"
That kinda sounded like you are some of those players who can't play anything, be it fastest, UMS, 1v1, or 2v2, or BGH.Yea I keep hearing people talking about it...
Uhhh I never made that comment. Are you referring to something else? You misinterpreted a post obviously. I made the "unlimited minerals" comment to mock your description of how fastest is.
People can definitely not peak out their skill level earlier on a fastest map. I've been playing the game alot longer than most people and I'm still evolving. I've never downloaded PP to care about my APM. Yes I know all the hardcore asians, who spend their savings account becoming professional SC players do care about that. You just havn't played fastest enough to realize how much micro and macro is required. You just need to play an expert on fastest. Then you'll realize how much skill is required.
I don't even play blizz maps except that 1v1 I did against you. And who won? *coughs*. Just don't even degrade fastest, you don't play it and you have NO idea what is required to be good at it. I can't even argue with something you have no experience with. You might as well be saying "FASTEST SUCKS!!!!!!!".
Eh, it was that guy, aznexpert, that is who I was replying to. And you took it over so it's not my fault. O:
Also, on my level of 1v1 (productive APM 100), macro and micro is very important, and, playing fastest, you would at least, have higher macro, in fact, VERY high macro, so you would just defeat me by macro. I had, like, what, 2 months of experience? lolol
Besides, I need to play the same person more than once if I am ever to beat them I just have that "nerves" issue. I don't rememeber a time when I won against a guy who I never played before, unless it was some guy with a backwards build order. I can play the guy two times, lose, and then after that, never lose to him again, that's just me.
So until you beat some Tiger guy we have I will not believe that skills of playing fastest transfer much onto 1v1 except in form of improved APM usage. It may require some skills of its own sort (tho I don't understand then why don't experts play fastest professionally???), but I expect it to be dumbed down compared to 1v1. Unlimited resources kinda kill the purpose of an RTS if you ask me.
Zerglings are annoying. They always seem to work better for the computer and die instantly for me lol. And we saw a ton of stuff in earlier trailers but all of that is subject to change.
Oh gosh it is not unlimited resources. I'm constantly riding 0 resources all game long. You got to get the fact that big professional competitions play blizzard maps only, out of your head. That's how the game was meant to be played when blizzard designed the game. Those maps are going to be the standard for competitions. It shouldn't mean that 'Fastest Map Possible' isn't a legitable map, with legitable skill required. In standard maps, sure you have time to run 4 marines around a lurker and kill it. People are like wow. This guy just killed a lurker with 4 marines, good micro skills. In fastest the microing goes unoticed due to the large quantity of units covering the map. It's still there, and still necessary to be good at the game.
Overall the point is. It takes alot of experience and commitment to be good at fastest. It might not seem that way to someone who hasn't put that much time into the map. Which I understand why you would think that way. I just hear, "Fastest map is for noobs" far too often. I just highly disagree with the statement.
I actually am curious to see the zerg. Also, like Equinox, am scared of the 3D results. Especially the Terran, since it's supossed to look rugged, it might end up looking plastic-y.
Second of all, while there is an infinite amount of minerals, if I get more expoes than he does, I can make more units faster. So I still win. In fact, I was playing some guy who camped on fastest and I won, just expanded all over the map
But, yea, fastest doesn't count. In real games, resources are limited.
How ignorant of you to disregard fastest players as legitimate players. A skill set is required. Just not the one you're use to. I gurantee the skill level between me and you on a fastest game is miles apart. Do not degrade something, just because you are not good at it. What imbalance are you referring to? Real SC players DO play fastest maps.
The map is 9 squares, it does not include shortage of resources, how can it be balanced? Pure macro, and NOTHING else.
That doesn't make a setup good. Or balanced.
Simply because I don't play Fastest and I was never interested in it.
I didn't notice. If anyone plays Fastest, UMS, or BGH, it's usually for pure fun. According to Lord of Flames on Gosugamers, playing these types of maps DAMAGES regular melee 1v1 skill. So I don't even bother to learn to play them. I never saw anyone do anything special, engaging, interesting in those games. They just mass units of primary levels.
I also don't remember a single Fastest/UMS replay on the gosugamers replay page...
Actually, they aren't slimy or soft. They are dry and solid, if they weren't, they wouldn't have a "carapace."
Vote:
http://www.diablofans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17929
Did you notive the big bony plate on the back of the Hydralisks head?
Vote:
http://www.diablofans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17929
Well vice versa as well. If I play LT for too long, I lose alot of my skill level on the fastest maps. Just because you spend all of your time conversing with blizz map players, doesn't mean you should disregard fastest players as having skill. I've devoted so much of my time into fastest maps, and to have someone say, "those aren't REAL sc players" is rather offensive. Because I know I'm skillful, and I know I'm good... I have equal respect for pro LT players as I do pro fastest players. Both require quite a bit of skill to do well.
If you don't find fastest maps engaging or interesting. Fine, that is your preference and opinion. Put any pro LT player on a fastest map against me and they wouldn't really look that pro. If it's such an easy concept. Unlimited minerals - Mass units. Then why can one person be so much better than another.
I don't really know these "gosugamers" that you keep referencing. Nor does it really matter. One persons opinion is just as good as another. I know sites where you wouldn't find a blizz map in sight. It's all fastest.
The only imbalances that I would agree with is templar storms and the narrow passages. One storm can wipe out all 50-75 miners. It's a rather cheap technique to use. But every one uses it so you just have to get use to it. As far as narrow passages, a newb can put a few cannons at the choke of his base and create a headache for any skilled-player.
I like my games a little more fast paced.
Zerg, I'm a noob camper, end of story.
I don't even play as Terran, so I mainly just mass Marines with the occasional Medic and Science Vessel thrown in.
I'm pretty sure people with 250+ APM won't have issues playing you because fastest is pure macro (unless you have a rep showing you do something besides macroing in there). Except if you ask me to find you a 250+ APM player I can't do that, they don't play with noobs like me.
The reason why people in fastest are so equal is because everyone just reaches the peak pretty fast and stays there. In SC 1v1, reaching the peak is rather hard.
http://sc.gosugamers.net/
It's a site with replays of professional Korean (and other countries) players. They do some crazy stuff there. 1v1 and 2v2. When it comes to those styles of play, gosugamers are the ones to trust.
BTW you don't see LT on there, mind you... They have Reverse Temple but LT is really rare.
Well, I expected something like this.
What's your 1v1 APM, exactly?
I really don't mind if you play fastest or whatever you choose to play, but, I do mind when you compare tactics on different game styles. I mean there is no way camping can work in a normal, non-money 1v1 on a certified WGT/PGT/ICCUP/Ladder map...
Fastest is a whole other playstyle I don't know much about. It functions in a completely different way so you are kinda talking about a whole other SC here. I said "Camping is a 100% losing strat on a certified map in a 1v1". On a CERTIFIED map, e.g., WGT/PGT/ICCUP kind of map. Fastest are different. And you replied: "if u played fastest possible map ud realize u never run outta money till u get like 9999999999999999 minerals" That kinda sounded like you are some of those players who can't play anything, be it fastest, UMS, 1v1, or 2v2, or BGH. Yea I keep hearing people talking about it...
Uhhh I never made that comment. Are you referring to something else? You misinterpreted a post obviously. I made the "unlimited minerals" comment to mock your description of how fastest is.
People can definitely not peak out their skill level earlier on a fastest map. I've been playing the game alot longer than most people and I'm still evolving. I've never downloaded PP to care about my APM. Yes I know all the hardcore asians, who spend their savings account becoming professional SC players do care about that. You just havn't played fastest enough to realize how much micro and macro is required. You just need to play an expert on fastest. Then you'll realize how much skill is required.
I don't even play blizz maps except that 1v1 I did against you. And who won? *coughs*. Just don't even degrade fastest, you don't play it and you have NO idea what is required to be good at it. I can't even argue with something you have no experience with. You might as well be saying "FASTEST SUCKS!!!!!!!".
Also, on my level of 1v1 (productive APM 100), macro and micro is very important, and, playing fastest, you would at least, have higher macro, in fact, VERY high macro, so you would just defeat me by macro. I had, like, what, 2 months of experience? lolol
Besides, I need to play the same person more than once if I am ever to beat them I just have that "nerves" issue. I don't rememeber a time when I won against a guy who I never played before, unless it was some guy with a backwards build order. I can play the guy two times, lose, and then after that, never lose to him again, that's just me.
So until you beat some Tiger guy we have I will not believe that skills of playing fastest transfer much onto 1v1 except in form of improved APM usage. It may require some skills of its own sort (tho I don't understand then why don't experts play fastest professionally???), but I expect it to be dumbed down compared to 1v1. Unlimited resources kinda kill the purpose of an RTS if you ask me.
But that's just my opinion.
It's the decisions you make when you have no time to make them that define who you are.
Overall the point is. It takes alot of experience and commitment to be good at fastest. It might not seem that way to someone who hasn't put that much time into the map. Which I understand why you would think that way. I just hear, "Fastest map is for noobs" far too often. I just highly disagree with the statement.