:Regardless it doesn't change the fact that they state you WILL NOT stroll through any of the Inferno content, so whats the problem?
Not one of us have even seen any inferno content yet we are calling nerf's how do you know it didn't need nerfing even for the "elite players"?
Edit: My post is direct at Atreyor.
We made Act III and Act IV really, really brutally hard, for the most elite players only. It felt wrong to make ALL of Inferno that brutally hard.
What don't you understand in this sentence ? All inferno was brutally hard, and now Act 1&2 are less brutally hard. That's a fact ! They didn't made act 3&4 harder than it was before.That's a fact !
And i really liked the fact you could farm wherever you wanted in the game, doing "baal run" again just broke the most interesting feat. ( farming 2 last acts are not "Baal run", but it shorten the farming spot choice by half)
Well ... wait & see !
These are ENTIRE ACT'S we are talking about here, 2 of them and from my understanding the last acts have the highest chance of dropping the highest possible rolls on items but the rest of inferno can still drop the items just the chances aren't as high.
They said A perfect roll from act 1/2 will outdo a not so perfect roll from Act 3/4 thats a good balance, you can still happily farm the first acts and get some of the best gear in the game, its only for the absolute, total, elitest, Min Max'er that will "Need" act 4 drops.
Slightly more towards you is like above I read that statement as they made the last 2 acts harder, and NOT the first 2 easier.
Mmm i can't learn you how to read and understand english, believe what you want i don't care
Then why are you pushing your inference and opinion off as fact?
That was never true. Bashiok (I believe it was him, at least) stated somewhere that it was just like a fourth difficulty. You had to start at the Fallen Star and proceed all the way until the end. And I disagree completely. While things like those zombies wouldn't be dangerous - you have to remember that the monsters shift away from that in the later part of Act I. If you've seen the leaks to the areas after killing Leoric, you'd see that the zombies are replaced by actual for srs monsters.
Whether or not monster will be like that will be seen when the game ships, but till then its speculation, so your disagreement (in regards of D3) is futile. And I just assume you agree with me about that point in D2. All I'm saying is: difficulty is more than just a stat ramp up and I think blizzard should have increased it that way instead of just lowered the stats in act1-2 to let players have an easier start.
I'm not sure if we're agreeing or what here, haha xD. I understand it's more than a stat ramp up. They kept re-stating that it would be a flat difficulty. That would mean that the Act I monsters would have needed better AI for Inferno so they didn't just derp all over us.
The reason they made this change is quite easy to figure out. Under the system they were using before...Well, let's just say this - Once you got ahead of the curve and you were able to clear Act I - you would have been able to beat Inferno NP.
Under the new system - you may be able to beat Act I, but Acts II - IV might still be a challenge. You won't get ahead of the curve as easily. There was also the issue that Act I Inferno and Act IV Hell had a disconnection on the linear scale of difficulty. Now that they're closer together it's constant progression, rather than a leap.
I don't quite agree with the idea of "being able to clear act1 -> you can clear act2-4 NP". Why? Because difficulty does not come alone from monster HP or Dmg, but also by behavior and internal skills. What I mean with this is, don't you agree that act1 monster in D2 where way easier than those in act3 or 4, regardless of the increased stats? For example Act4 Skelleton-caster-guys could curse you with thorns -> died many times with my barb. Or those voodoo caster in Act3 that could burn the shit outta you with inferno. But I can't think of a very dangerous monster in Act1 (regardless of stats).
The same is true for Bosses. Each Boss has a different difficulty regardless of the stats of the Boss. Like most players will agree that Mephisto is the easiest of all Bosses, therefore he was farmed so much. And I Hoped that to be true for D3 as well. That would imply a ramp up in difficulty without any increase of stats.
And as a side note: I thought once you reached Inferno you wouldn't be constrained by progress, but could start freely on any quest you wanted.
That was never true. Bashiok (I believe it was him, at least) stated somewhere that it was just like a fourth difficulty. You had to start at the Fallen Star and proceed all the way until the end. And I disagree completely. While things like those zombies wouldn't be dangerous - you have to remember that the monsters shift away from that in the later part of Act I. If you've seen the leaks to the areas after killing Leoric, you'd see that the zombies are replaced by actual for srs monsters.
Its a fact that its nerfed if the monsters didnt scale from the levels they were at orginially. Its simple logic.. that was the point of asking.. to find out.. And you plainly implyed theres no point in asking if theres no answer.
What you infer and what I imply are two different things. I never said we shouldn't ask questions - and I sure as hell never implied it. In fact - my statement was to tell you that you don't have the factual evidence to call it a nerf. I could argue that this is a buff. I'm trying to tell you that your cry for a nerf is an opinion - some of us think it's a buff - others believe it's a nerf. Quit spewing your opinion as fact - and then being upset when I tell you an opinion. It's silly.
Did I also say there wasn't an answer? No - what I said was that those of us in the community do not have the answer. We don't work at Blizzard and we haven't played Inferno - therefore we do not have the answer.
Ex
Skill changes sticky leads to
Skill change question topics and feedback topics about it.
I'm going to re-iterate this again: It doesn't mean you have magical knowledge as to the workings of said video game. You do not have a supreme understanding of how these values and number will work out in the end-game difficulty: aka Inferno. We also do not have said knowledge. You're passing it off as a fact - and you're also passing off that there's a need for two topics on the same issue.
Guy A makes topic saying: Skill changes incoming
Guy B makes topic saying: Skill changes are a nerf!
Same thing. Those two topics should really be in the same thread. A nerf to a skill would be a generalization to a change to a skill.
Here is a simple example, did you play wow? The market was not made up of ALL end game items they were just a small fraction. The main items will be nightmare and hell items for the "nubs" and possibly crafting materials. There will also be twinking items for PvP... the market as a whole is made up of many items not a small niche. Plus with the way the AH is designed you can always farm money to buy a high end item, granted it will take a while but it still can be done. I think you under estimate the term "veteran Diablo fan" if you reached hell mode and remade a few characters in D2 you are a veteran by comparison of the millions who never got passed normal mode.
what ? what ? what ?
wait, you comming with a wow example when end game items are bound ? really ? its like saying inferno items gonna be bound - then your example could be close to valid.
next thing how you can call hell items for twinks ? they probably gonna be lvl 60 also, probably from the last areas (if they didnt change it with this news).
next - its not WoW - in diablo with ah you will be always chasing best items. whats worst you even admit at the end that people will save money (or made them somehow) for end game items. and you saying that im wrong ? you just said the same.
People still have to level. There will always be an influx of new players. Said new players will want better gear while leveling - that way the experience is enjoyable. That was his point. How can you even ignore something like that?
well since the trigger happy mod locked my topic disgussing if it was a nerf or a buff, to force every single disgussion about it in a flooded topic, Ill just say I hope that the monsters got harder then orginially or its just a nerf... I hope atleast the last act is harder then the orginal.. or this is just a nerf.. and bad news.
Nuvian is far from trigger happy. He locked it because there was another topic discussing the change to Inferno - and it was literally RIGHT BELOW the one you created.
Edit: We don't need that many topics discussing the recent change to Inferno on the forum. There's really only a need for one - thus, his actions.
Like I didnt know that and even state it in my thread? I think a thread dedicated to figuring out if this was a nerf or a buff is a worthy topic concidering the subject of this topic is just a annoucment. Last time I checked, you can still disgusss similar things or else these forums would have alot less topics. Maybe trigger happy isnt correct, but blizzard wouldent lock this just because theres a similar topic.
Why not just post in this thread instead? It's literally the same exact thing. You created a second thread about it - when all you had to do was pop into this thread, give your opinion, and ask for others. And I'm pretty sure Blizzard would lock it because it would lead to trolling and flaming. Just saying.
Edit: Do us a favor and try to keep it on topic though. Kthx
Edit 2: You won't be able to figure out if a change like this is a nerf or buff. You, and we, have not played past the first 33% of Act I in Normal. It's asinine to even assume things as this stage.
You must not follow the diablo forums. Even things that been asked and answered a million times blizzard employes still post in the topic and answer it. 1. This is a question which no one knows the answer of. 2. Its a strong concern. 3. A important thing to disguss seperatley and not have "ty for the announcement" in half the posts.. because thats what this IS. Every time I look at a blizzard annoucment I see topics about the problems of the changes or questions. Really dont argue this lol
I'm pretty sure what you just said was incoherent rambling. I'll state it again. What we think now is pretty stupid considering we haven't even experienced NORMAL difficulty. We can discuss how Inferno is AFTER we play it. Any argument that that statement isn't 100% true is silly.
I do follow the DIII forums - and you know what I see? A bunch of cry-babies who haven't even experienced the game for themselves - yet they think they have the knowledge to cry nerf or buff every fifteen seconds.
Edit: And just for added irony - I like how your first point is that nobody knows the answer. Yet you feel you should ask us? Not too sure if serious.
No. Thats a ramble. What IM saying is if they nerfed it, its stupid. Im sure most people agree with me they didnt want inferno nerfed at all. So I think alot of people agree they wanna know if this means inferno will get any buffs or it just was nerfed. Because Now if its easyer you can get inferno gear easyer thus making ALL inferno easyer.
Glad you think most of the diablo 3 people are cry babbys.
You never heard of asking people for what they think or a opinion? or them finding it out if its confirmed? People still ask questions even if there isnt a answer for one buddy
Did I say that we didn't ask said questions? I said there wasn't a point to you passing it off as being NERFED - as a FACT rather than opinion. None of us will KNOW the TRUTH until we play it. That was my POINT. If you can't see that, then...well...rofl.
Also - I didn't ramble. Me rambling would have meant I strayed from my original point. The only thing I did was place my thoughts down against yours. I was countering your statements.
Here is a simple example, did you play wow? The market was not made up of ALL end game items they were just a small fraction. The main items will be nightmare and hell items for the "nubs" and possibly crafting materials. There will also be twinking items for PvP... the market as a whole is made up of many items not a small niche. Plus with the way the AH is designed you can always farm money to buy a high end item, granted it will take a while but it still can be done. I think you under estimate the term "veteran Diablo fan" if you reached hell mode and remade a few characters in D2 you are a veteran by comparison of the millions who never got passed normal mode.
what ? what ? what ?
wait, you comming with a wow example when end game items are bound ? really ? its like saying inferno items gonna be bound - then your example could be close to valid.
next thing how you can call hell items for twinks ? they probably gonna be lvl 60 also, probably from the last areas (if they didnt change it with this news).
next - its not WoW - in diablo with ah you will be always chasing best items. whats worst you even admit at the end that people will save money (or made them somehow) for end game items. and you saying that im wrong ? you just said the same.
People still have to level. There will always be an influx of new players. Said new players will want better gear while leveling - that way the experience is enjoyable. That was his point. How can you even ignore something like that?
well since the trigger happy mod locked my topic disgussing if it was a nerf or a buff, to force every single disgussion about it in a flooded topic, Ill just say I hope that the monsters got harder then orginially or its just a nerf... I hope atleast the last act is harder then the orginal.. or this is just a nerf.. and bad news.
Nuvian is far from trigger happy. He locked it because there was another topic discussing the change to Inferno - and it was literally RIGHT BELOW the one you created.
Edit: We don't need that many topics discussing the recent change to Inferno on the forum. There's really only a need for one - thus, his actions.
Like I didnt know that and even state it in my thread? I think a thread dedicated to figuring out if this was a nerf or a buff is a worthy topic concidering the subject of this topic is just a annoucment. Last time I checked, you can still disgusss similar things or else these forums would have alot less topics. Maybe trigger happy isnt correct, but blizzard wouldent lock this just because theres a similar topic.
Why not just post in this thread instead? It's literally the same exact thing. You created a second thread about it - when all you had to do was pop into this thread, give your opinion, and ask for others. And I'm pretty sure Blizzard would lock it because it would lead to trolling and flaming. Just saying.
Edit: Do us a favor and try to keep it on topic though. Kthx
Edit 2: You won't be able to figure out if a change like this is a nerf or buff. You, and we, have not played past the first 33% of Act I in Normal. It's asinine to even assume things as this stage.
You must not follow the diablo forums. Even things that been asked and answered a million times blizzard employes still post in the topic and answer it. 1. This is a question which no one knows the answer of. 2. Its a strong concern. 3. A important thing to disguss seperatley and not have "ty for the announcement" in half the posts.. because thats what this IS. Every time I look at a blizzard annoucment I see topics about the problems of the changes or questions. Really dont argue this lol
I'm pretty sure what you just said was incoherent rambling. I'll state it again. What we think now is pretty stupid considering we haven't even experienced NORMAL difficulty. We can discuss how Inferno is AFTER we play it. Any argument that that statement isn't 100% true is silly.
I do follow the DIII forums - and you know what I see? A bunch of cry-babies who haven't even experienced the game for themselves - yet they think they have the knowledge to cry nerf or buff every fifteen seconds.
Edit: And just for added irony - I like how your first point is that nobody knows the answer. Yet you feel you should ask us? Not too sure if serious.
Edit 2: And just for clarification - Bashiok answers posts when he sees that he has an answer, and that there is a good demand for it. It's called community relations. Bashiok is not liable for the stupidity of a community or their incapability of using http://www.google.com.
I think most of you got it wrong. The difficulty isn't higher than before, its just that Act1-2 is easier.
I don't know ... with this change the game will be even easier than before and I'm personally in fear the game will be too easy even with a fully hard Inferno (so u have a harder start). Well... hoping for the best.
The reason they made this change is quite easy to figure out. Under the system they were using before...Well, let's just say this - Once you got ahead of the curve and you were able to clear Act I - you would have been able to beat Inferno NP.
Under the new system - you may be able to beat Act I, but Acts II - IV might still be a challenge. You won't get ahead of the curve as easily. There was also the issue that Act I Inferno and Act IV Hell had a disconnection on the linear scale of difficulty. Now that they're closer together it's constant progression, rather than a leap.
I ignore something like that because im talking only about lvl 60 gear. when you put lvl 60 at AH you will have all items mixed, but when you sort by stats it will always give you those best items first. do you really gonna look for you items at 5th or 10 page ?
You're assuming everybody will be rich. Not everybody will be able to afford the $50 items that have the best stats. There will be poor people who purchase the items that are in the $5-10 range just because they're missing a few optimized stats. It will work out - and it always has. You're focusing on 10% of the equation and saying the other 90% doesn't exist.
Here is a simple example, did you play wow? The market was not made up of ALL end game items they were just a small fraction. The main items will be nightmare and hell items for the "nubs" and possibly crafting materials. There will also be twinking items for PvP... the market as a whole is made up of many items not a small niche. Plus with the way the AH is designed you can always farm money to buy a high end item, granted it will take a while but it still can be done. I think you under estimate the term "veteran Diablo fan" if you reached hell mode and remade a few characters in D2 you are a veteran by comparison of the millions who never got passed normal mode.
what ? what ? what ?
wait, you comming with a wow example when end game items are bound ? really ? its like saying inferno items gonna be bound - then your example could be close to valid.
next thing how you can call hell items for twinks ? they probably gonna be lvl 60 also, probably from the last areas (if they didnt change it with this news).
next - its not WoW - in diablo with ah you will be always chasing best items. whats worst you even admit at the end that people will save money (or made them somehow) for end game items. and you saying that im wrong ? you just said the same.
People still have to level. There will always be an influx of new players. Said new players will want better gear while leveling - that way the experience is enjoyable. That was his point. How can you even ignore something like that?
well since the trigger happy mod locked my topic disgussing if it was a nerf or a buff, to force every single disgussion about it in a flooded topic, Ill just say I hope that the monsters got harder then orginially or its just a nerf... I hope atleast the last act is harder then the orginal.. or this is just a nerf.. and bad news.
Nuvian is far from trigger happy. He locked it because there was another topic discussing the change to Inferno - and it was literally RIGHT BELOW the one you created.
Edit: We don't need that many topics discussing the recent change to Inferno on the forum. There's really only a need for one - thus, his actions.
Edit 2: And just for future reference - if I remember right - you're not supposed to talk about any moderation in a public venue...I'm not sure if this counts for situations like this, but I thought I would tell you just in case. :3
Then why are you pushing your inference and opinion off as fact?
I'm not sure if we're agreeing or what here, haha xD. I understand it's more than a stat ramp up. They kept re-stating that it would be a flat difficulty. That would mean that the Act I monsters would have needed better AI for Inferno so they didn't just derp all over us.
That was never true. Bashiok (I believe it was him, at least) stated somewhere that it was just like a fourth difficulty. You had to start at the Fallen Star and proceed all the way until the end. And I disagree completely. While things like those zombies wouldn't be dangerous - you have to remember that the monsters shift away from that in the later part of Act I. If you've seen the leaks to the areas after killing Leoric, you'd see that the zombies are replaced by actual for srs monsters.
What you infer and what I imply are two different things. I never said we shouldn't ask questions - and I sure as hell never implied it. In fact - my statement was to tell you that you don't have the factual evidence to call it a nerf. I could argue that this is a buff. I'm trying to tell you that your cry for a nerf is an opinion - some of us think it's a buff - others believe it's a nerf. Quit spewing your opinion as fact - and then being upset when I tell you an opinion. It's silly.
Did I also say there wasn't an answer? No - what I said was that those of us in the community do not have the answer. We don't work at Blizzard and we haven't played Inferno - therefore we do not have the answer.
That is simple logic.
You make me rofl.
I'm going to re-iterate this again: It doesn't mean you have magical knowledge as to the workings of said video game. You do not have a supreme understanding of how these values and number will work out in the end-game difficulty: aka Inferno. We also do not have said knowledge. You're passing it off as a fact - and you're also passing off that there's a need for two topics on the same issue.
Guy A makes topic saying: Skill changes incoming
Guy B makes topic saying: Skill changes are a nerf!
Same thing. Those two topics should really be in the same thread. A nerf to a skill would be a generalization to a change to a skill.
Did I say that we didn't ask said questions? I said there wasn't a point to you passing it off as being NERFED - as a FACT rather than opinion. None of us will KNOW the TRUTH until we play it. That was my POINT. If you can't see that, then...well...rofl.
Also - I didn't ramble. Me rambling would have meant I strayed from my original point. The only thing I did was place my thoughts down against yours. I was countering your statements.
I'm pretty sure what you just said was incoherent rambling. I'll state it again. What we think now is pretty stupid considering we haven't even experienced NORMAL difficulty. We can discuss how Inferno is AFTER we play it. Any argument that that statement isn't 100% true is silly.
I do follow the DIII forums - and you know what I see? A bunch of cry-babies who haven't even experienced the game for themselves - yet they think they have the knowledge to cry nerf or buff every fifteen seconds.
Edit: And just for added irony - I like how your first point is that nobody knows the answer. Yet you feel you should ask us? Not too sure if serious.
Edit 2: And just for clarification - Bashiok answers posts when he sees that he has an answer, and that there is a good demand for it. It's called community relations. Bashiok is not liable for the stupidity of a community or their incapability of using http://www.google.com.
The reason they made this change is quite easy to figure out. Under the system they were using before...Well, let's just say this - Once you got ahead of the curve and you were able to clear Act I - you would have been able to beat Inferno NP.
Under the new system - you may be able to beat Act I, but Acts II - IV might still be a challenge. You won't get ahead of the curve as easily. There was also the issue that Act I Inferno and Act IV Hell had a disconnection on the linear scale of difficulty. Now that they're closer together it's constant progression, rather than a leap.
You're assuming everybody will be rich. Not everybody will be able to afford the $50 items that have the best stats. There will be poor people who purchase the items that are in the $5-10 range just because they're missing a few optimized stats. It will work out - and it always has. You're focusing on 10% of the equation and saying the other 90% doesn't exist.
People still have to level. There will always be an influx of new players. Said new players will want better gear while leveling - that way the experience is enjoyable. That was his point. How can you even ignore something like that?
Nuvian is far from trigger happy. He locked it because there was another topic discussing the change to Inferno - and it was literally RIGHT BELOW the one you created.
Edit: We don't need that many topics discussing the recent change to Inferno on the forum. There's really only a need for one - thus, his actions.
Edit 2: And just for future reference - if I remember right - you're not supposed to talk about any moderation in a public venue...I'm not sure if this counts for situations like this, but I thought I would tell you just in case. :3
http://www.diablofans.com/forum-8/announcement-2-forum-guidelines/
These changes have probably been in-house for quite a while.