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Quote from giovax»

Quote from Arydor»

The group or groups of players who choose to farm/leech experience, usually band together for 8-12 hour blocks and constantly farm. Should this play style be rewarded? Absolutely.

I agree that time should reward player, but not in way paragon does (adding a flat stat bonus), rather having time to try difficult things again and again.

After I'm geared, I want to spent my time pushing the GR record, not farming paragon and get my record in few try thanks to my paragon...

I don't quite understand... for each power creep there is a new level of difficulty, it's an infinite tower of Grift levels... So 50 was hard? Gain some paragon levels, now 55 is hard? Keep going... Now 60 is hard? Wow... progression? I realize that a straight power gain seems like "OMG that guy who spends 10 more hours a day than I do is better than me" but, face facts, it's a dungeon grind, the more time spent the better you'll be. The stash space and currency idea sounds like a great idea on paper, but again, falls too far off the radar in actuality to even be considered an idea. The streamers, the hardcore, all of it is useless without power creep. Reducing the effectiveness of Paragon points? Sure... or they could even unlock the other trees so you could put 350 points in life%. The current system how it is works as a progression tree, and as such, only the strong (or in this case those with nothing better to do) survive. Does this sort of system breed illicit behaviour? Does baseball produce juice junkies? Of course it does. Difference is that you can do it in the comfort of your own home.

Face facts people, for box value on RoS, D3 has received much more in terms of content, patches, quality of life improvements, and with even more on the way... for FREE. Quit finding things to pick apart and enjoy your journey.

I'm confused... the OP mentions that the exponential growth rate of paragon experience needed caps out at ~170 billion. Yet this is farmable via group play speed farming in sub-difficult GRs in an hour (or so). First, let me propose this: The group or groups of players who choose to farm/leech experience, usually band together for 8-12 hour blocks and constantly farm. Should this play style be rewarded? Absolutely. You argue time spent vs reward, the 4 hr a day player will always be left in the dust due to the generic loot system that D3 holds regardless of paragon. Now, to your original point, paragon ep required from 1999 to 2000 and 2000+ is the same? Good. 170 billion per paragon seems grim, but solo farming non-stop T6 rifts you cap out at approx 2.5-3 billion exp/hour. The "faster" you speak of doesn't exist, if you've achieved paragon 2000, you've most likely gotten perfect rolls in every slot. The generic power creep of paragon does exist, but if you take that away, all blizzard will be left with is the casual mediocre players that are crying about not being able to hit the leaderboards. My suggestion is as follows:

Initiate a plan at season start: Form a group of 4 friends that play at roughly the same times/lengths you do, and decide who is filling what role for the majority of the beginning of the season, and play with them, even at 4 hours a day, you'll still be way out in front of the duos and the solos... Would you really enjoy it if they complained that you were ahead of them because you have group play?

The entire dynamic of threads like these are actually relieving, that even for solo players, there is a point where paragons become a steady earning, instead of an impossible mountain to climb.

As for botting... everybody screams bot, but without proof... Yea sure maybe they did... Maybe they didn't... Maybe they just had a better plan than you and achieved goals much more quickly than you did, and that head start has kept them ahead.

Hello...

So you're having problems with the Bone Warlock eh? First things first, he's not actually 1 shooting you, he's triple or quad tapping you with his fan out ball attack, to deal with this, simply stay about 8 yards away, and stay behind him whenever possible. The other thing to look at is his Reflect Damage phases... in these, all his minions that he's summoned get it as well. To deal with this, simply move away, you will take reflection from your latent DDs, but you will reduce your overall damage taken by simply retreating. The next thing to note is that his minions also do a Mortar, which if you just stand in, are likely to take a ball, reflection and a mortar, which mirrors a one shot, but is actually a culminatitive of many things happening quickly.

still the time window in which MH procs occur gets smaller when mobs are CC immune (or almost immune). It's just that there seems to be a limit. Like a minimum amount of paralysis proc duration (even though the mob is not stunned). Otherwise MH would never proc again if you don't "refresh" your mobs completely by stepping away and coming back later. Which is by the way a good thing to do if you wanna get most procs out of your doulbe archon / 4 Tal Stacks duration.

And no TR is not the only choice when it comes down to the usage of MH.

It's just that everybody and their grandmother is copying the same builds... FB is a valid choice (and after all it's possible to maintain the full set bonus for 20 sec of Archon and not only 8...)

The reason TR is especially good is cus it can be combined with 4 pieces of Vyr and is overall easier to use / build a skillsetup around, otherwise FB would be simply better overall in every case.

*Was trying to quote someone, failed miserably.

You! You there! I like you.

It's nice to see some sense in this thread.

Quote from Nachten»

Quote from Bagstone»

"it seems to be that the vocal minority is quite strong on this one with the urge to fight back to defend their botting. "

Quote from Bagstone (Page 2)

"Our letter and this thread is about botting. I don't think there are two different opinions about bots (unless you're a botter), something you cannot say about other issues."

Meanwhile by your own words those of us calling for ALL CHEATERS to be punished "are defending our botting". I have to say that is disappointing especially coming from you.

We're not talking about solutions to the problem, we're not talking about anything around the issue, we're talking about botting.

So whats your opinion on a solution? Paragon Cap in Season? Captcha like mentioned so often? Something else?
I*m realy interested to hear something additional than all this already mentioned stuff.

First off I don't know if there is a 100% viable solution to the problem since Blizzard has let it get so far out of hand as it stands today.

If Blizzard can truly detect Bots, and not just "bot like behavior" then at least we have a starting point. However if they just go after anyone who has 12 plus hours of playtime a day for example, then you could be banning a great number of legitimate players mistakenly. People go on binges with this game, they leave the game on and sit in menus for 6 hours, they enter and leave games repeatedly looking for the perfect grifts, they run endless rifts back to back with no let up except maybe a few minutes break. That can all be looked at as behavior that is "bot like". But the real question remains if their system in place can currently detect 3rd party programs playing the game, because if they cannot, then ZERO bans should be handed out.

Now, on the other side of the coin, if Blizzard CAN see that third party programs are reading memory, injecting any commands into the game, or anything else that these programs can do, then by all means, ban them. Ban them all. Any and every player that uses a 3rd party program.

Now for arguments sake, lets say they do not take that road. Lets say they realize that removing bots would severely impact their playerbase on a daily average. Lets say they find an alternate measure.

Assuming they can identify bot users, one "solution" if they choose not to undertake a massive ban wave would be to flag these players accounts, in a visible way that ANY and ALL players can see. Lets say a new icon like a player portrait that cannot be changed, or maybe an asterisk next to their name when they log in or a message to all players when they join a party. Another harsher alternative would be something that may be too difficult to implement, but lets say any player who has been VERIFIED of botting is restricted from joining public games. They can play on their own or with clan/friendslist players, HOWEVER, if a GRift is opened in a group, no player who is flagged can join with other people. They can make their own GRifts, and they can push high GRifts, but they will not appear on the leaderboards, but there will always be a way to tell if the person has been/is a bot user.

In addition, I think that the paragon system is simply out of hand. I think paragon should be harder to obtain, and be limited to 800 points in season. Non season should be unlimited, but for competitive play it is simply too powerful and provides too much of a bonus in damage. I have completed GRift 55 on my monk and will be slowly pushing it to 60 if I can, and for that I am proud. However there is ZERO chance of me competing with players who have 1300 or 1600 paragon levels. Cap it at 800 for seasons and it might also be time for an overhaul of the available pages/choices on the paragon system. That however is a different discussion.

Captcha systems would work to a point, but would also annoy a lot of legit players who simply get tired of entering it. Also, when would the captcha come up......Beginning, mid game, would it pause the game, would it come up in the middle of a boss fight, would it come up when you just killed the boss and have 10 seconds to turn in the rift ? Things could go worse because of them.

You wanted possible solutions. That would be mine.

PS - Nachten You mistakenly changed the part of my quote from Bagstone's name to Arydor. (I changed it back for you)

No idea why that happened, but lets keep the accusations with who actually said them.

Quote from Bagstone»

"it seems to be that the vocal minority is quite strong on this one with the urge to fight back to defend their botting. "

"Our letter and this thread is about botting. I don't think there are two different opinions about bots (unless you're a botter), something you cannot say about other issues."

For someone who is preaching to stay on topic and avoid the name calling and accusations, I would say to read what you yourself wrote. You leveling accusations like that (twice in this thread in 2 separate comments ) is better in exactly what way ? How is it justifiable in your eyes to call anyone in this thread a botter ? What proof do you have ?

You mention people leveling accusations against signatories of the open letter. You ask what proof there is of that, well, open admission from at least 2 of them have been quoted in these last 10 pages. There have already been posts detailing accounts of botting/ account sharing/ turbohud using by several of your signers. However I guess that is something we can overlook because they are internet stars and we are not.

Meanwhile by your own words those of us calling for ALL CHEATERS to be punished "are defending our botting". I have to say that is disappointing especially coming from you.

Quote from Fleywell»

Quote from Arokhantos»

Just because thud ads better functionality to diablo 3 hud even without the cheats doesn't mean its not a cheat anymore.

You still have an advantage over others, which itself is cheating, not to mention it lets you see stuff you shouldn't even if can turn that off the fact it's possible doesn't make it any less worse.

I definitely hope they deal with thud users also, and in my opinion you cheat you're out, zero tolerance.

If you deal slow with cheaters and even don't hand out permanent bans then why should people take you seriously at all as game dev, they will just continue forever.

If I follow this logic, then Blizzard should ban every addon user in WoW, because addons give huge advantage to users.

Don't compare add ons from wow to turbohud, turbo hud is a third party app not allowed according to eula.
Add Ons are scripted lua files that you put in the addon folder that wow reads, and wow dev team decides what kind of control addon is able to do, they can limit addon functionality or increase it whenever they wish, and it doesn't allow things that aren't allowed.

Quote from ffs

THUD is just the example to make a point, namely:
The letter should have been about cheating in general, and yes I think people are absolutely right when they say the fact it's not is hypocritical.

Exactly my thought, its like they are saying plz ban botting cos its unfair, but plz do nothing against turbohud because i actually use to gain advantage. they strongly stated in eula any form of automatic play or even data mining is against the eula, that diablo 3 needs huds improvements oke but to use that to justify use of turbohud is dumb, you use it i hope you are already marked for a perm ban, lets take any other gamedev they do not care how bad the cheat is if it gains you small or huge advantage, you get perm ban anyway, you knew what you where doing and you know the risks of getting caught, this aplies to any kind of cheating botting included, zero tolerance aka you get caught perm ban no exceptions.

Exploits can be argue'd about should be considered per case basis, but any kind third party app big no no.

Like mentioned before, THUD and other such advantages are not mentioned because none of the signees would be able to sign it without looking foolish. I agree with most points that THUD is a much bigger advantage that botting in getting a leaderboard spot. Seeing pylons ahead of time and mob density (along with the convenience of of seeing debuffs on the ground) is a big advantage over having just the vanilla UI.

To say you want a competitive leaderboard for players who work hard and not mention TurboHud because you are trying to keep the letter from being "vague" is just an excuse. The reason is that none of the users could sign it even though THUD gives a much edge to these users that botting gives to botters.

Botting is hurting the game as well and I agree it should be taken care of, but in regards to fair and competitive leaderboards for players who work hard the real problem is actually THUD.