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sacrifice a bk for ravens frost, you wont have 100% but you wont get frozen also, bc of life tap from dracs you shouldn't really need 100% to not use potions.

Reading this discussion i have realized two things, its now an argument nit picking small irrevent facts from each side of the argument. Every once in a while there is a decent conclusion. I would like to see non-skewed counter arguments, not just I'm right your wrong. I kinda see a war going on between nickm88 and seth.

That being said I am going to try to offer an analogy to respecing pertaining to real life. (I liked the tightrope-road example)

In life we make decisions, we start by going to school, maybe undergraduate, maybe graduate school. We find a job. We do things that promote our interests and develop our lives. We don't break laws, steal, kill people etc. (i know this may provoke... its just a game but bare with me I'm not directly relating the game to life; I'm relating permanent choices to non-permanent.) Each choice we made is done, there are consequences for them... going to jail, comm. service etc. So yes every choice is permanent.

Does that mean you can't go back to school for a new discipline 'ie small repecting?' No! go ahead. Does this mean you can go back to the beginning 'full respecing' not commit the crime that landed you 10 years in jail, well no. (Therefore an option not a luxury of life, make a 'new' character.)

I personally believe for a decision in the game to be more meaning full it should be more permanent. (my whole pursuit of things challenging is more rewarding argument)

Another issue I forgot to add, but I considered it;
With battlenet pushed back they can only develop gameplay for d3 multiplayer. It will take a considerable amount of time after that to completely, bug free, integrate d3 with open battlenet.

-Also I do know d2 and d3 are entirely separate beasts. However claiming complete independence between the 2 is ignorant. They directly relate as titles, the results of the mechanics (specifcally the new 'skill reallocate', and i'm sure they have more to try in 1.13) relate to d3. d2 makes an easy testbed. And even if it didn't if i ran blizzard I would want my patch team talking to d3 developers because communication is key. I'm sure the d2 team tried stuff that didnt work, they'll talk to and save the d3 time of trying it themselves. Not to mentions I am sure the content developers, and artists overlap.

So yes, d2 and d3 are actually much more related then most people, including Blizzard admit.

I predict that its going to be at least 2011, maybe first half but most likely second. Heres why:

Recently or, not so recently announced diablo2 patch 1.13 is rumored to have respec availability... test possibly to see what works, and how it will be exploited...??? This patch is going to have a a PTR (public test realm???I think) for beta testing. So in terms of time that means, when it gets to the PTR it will probably test for 2-3 weeks, and require at least another month or 2 after that to finish the patch up. So even if the beta testing realm came up today we looking at the patch being released early 2010. Now lets connect some dots, 1.13 early 2010, maybe being used to determine what works and doesn't of their 'new' ideas for d3. If some system they have doesn't work they are going to have to redo it in d3. This will all be taking place... after 1.13's release. Now assuming they have all the content done by Blizzcon 2009, which is doubtful, and presumptuous, it would be simply folding in the information they learn from the patch, beta testing, reworking the bugs out, possibly even a second beta test, marketing, picking a 'high sales time' to release the game etc. Therefore simply i see:
Blizzcon 2009
-lots of content has been developed
-early 2010, d2 1.13 comes out
-Quarter 2 2010, observations made, new plan of action for d3 laid out.
-late 2010, beta testing
-late 2010 - mid 2011 fixing bugs and polishing every aspect
-game released November 2011 right before the holiday season.

This is assuming they already have >70% of the content developed by Blizzcon 2009. (Next week)

This makes me sad, I want to play the game now; but it will be good if its perfect and it's worth the wait - I don't really have a choice.

So just out of curiosity, if they are trying to implement a respec system into d2 for the patch as "testing" for d3. Does that mean the patch that could have been released by the 'end of April' is going to come out soon. Not claiming programming expertise or anything but if they are going to do a decent job on respec that will take time, alot of time. If its a quick slap on, I see respec for the patch being well... exactly that... patchy; it most likely wont integrate well with the rest of the game.

So not to deviate from the topic but is this patch more of a fantasy? Since SC2 got pushed back to next year, and another title is coming out next year... and the patch will probably come out, yep, Next Year. It makes me think that d3 isn't going to come out next year or, this rumored patch wont actually come out.

I play on USWest username 'edwith' and 'edwith1'

I already posted my opinion, but additional thoughts to think about when considering respec.

-If you can be godly in 5 minutes and get any gear and skills and everything you dream of easily, how long do you think you are going to play for; there is nothing to strive for.

-That being said respecing isn't going to allow you to become godly a in a few days, and once your tired of trying out all the different skills combinations, your going to demand that the next patch makes it take less time to get items etc.
(this argument can go both ways; meaning its not going to save you time so respec wont hurt vs its not going to save you time so why ruin a classic game system that people who actually still play love.)

-I personally think anyone who isn't still playing d2 opinions shouldn't matter for the patch, there not playing and respec certianly wont get them playing again. (For the system in D3 there opinions may be more relevant)

-I read somewhere that it will ruin a classic, it may, it may improve it though; besides reinstall the game and play SP without updating if it ruins it for you. I personally always play open battlenet so if it ruins it I will be disappointed.

-I'll reiterate me last post in this thread,:
The greater the challenge the more it worth pursing.
The easier it is to get the less it is convented.

Respecing done right may work, done wrong will ruin the lasting appeal d2 has offered me. It will ruin it because I will have tried every skill distribution and build possible with much less time and effort. That 'time' in the end is how I rate the game: A game is 1. Play through in 10 hours then it gets lost on your shelf, 2. Never finish it wasn't that good or 3. Play through, then over and over for countless hours because there is always something out there you haven't done or better to strive for.

If it is done right I think it can work. If not, I think it could destroy the longevity of the games appeal.

If you can completely revamp your lvl 81 bowazon to a javazon in 5 minutes (excluding finding gear) i am not in favor. Another example of respec exploitation: you have a zeal paladin beat the game in normal, once you get high enough where hammers are good, you respec and switch to a hammerdin instantly maxing the skill. Now you magic find, but wait, you want to do ubers so you convert him to a smiter, then back to a hammerdin after you finish getting your torch. Half the fun of the game is working to 'earn' levelups, equipment, powerful attacks, and new skill selections. For example, when the game first came out and I played single player and used an editor giving myself tons of skills which made the game nearly pointless. The games lasting appeal is based on spending time in order to achieve a goal, and being rewarded when you get there.

My biggest concern is, despite the fact that you have to grind, is the lack of it. No one likes grinding, but it even after I've made 10s of 100s of characters over the years and leveled them respectively, I still feel a huge sense of satisfaction when I finally get the skill I have been working so hard for. More excitement comes as the skill increasing gets more powerful as I level; and finally as the skill and its syngeries become maxed, a great sense of accomplishment.

So in conclusion, I argue that despite the grind, we keep coming back, and it's what makes us keep coming back. Simple laws of life, the easier it is to get the less it is convented. That being said a respect system done correctly wont take away the satisfaction and will allow some forgiveness and greater experimentation.

Examples are from D2 because that is all we know...

Some of these may be common but

Rune effects
-Shorten the recast delay time
-multiply damage of spell
-add chain affects (I like recast with leftover damage idea)
-cost less mana (fury.???)
-channel damage to health example: spell does 10% less damage but now 5% is converted into restoring health for you (spell ll)
-for shield like spells teleport moster away when the hit you.
-+skill, why not just level it up without a skill point
-link skills, put a rune in one skill and it asks you want other skill you want to be casted simulatiously with it (other skill from you skill tree that you have invested at least 1 point in)
-reroll, take best. Eg. you have lightingbolt that does 1-1K damage you roll 500 the rune makes it reroll say you get 300 it takes the higher of the 2.
-decrease monster resistance to it (whatever damage type it does it decrease enemy res) eg. fire -5% fire res, arcane -5% arcane res etc.

Just some ideas.

So my questions simple

Has anyone made combine the auradin with the enchantress?

Recently I made a dream enchantress using passion runeword to get zeal. Playing it I was wondering if i could get even higher damage. When I started looking at it, Hoj with -20fr could also benefit her significantly. Because it won't require me to start over on my skills and I'm ok with the stats not being perfect I'll post what I am thinking of trying to do. Most of the guide comes from dream enchantress guides.

Let me know what you think and suggestions.
Stats
str-base
dex-more for higher block (max block would be hard to get)
life-everything
mana-base
Life vs Mana was choosen because I didn't choose to use Energy Shield after hours of research (basically it takes elemental damage b4 resistances are applied)

Skills
Fire Skills
Fireball 1
Firebolt 1
Enchant 20
Warmth 20
Fire Mastery 20

Lighting Skills
Static 1 (incase you PvM)
Telekinesis 1
Teleport 1
Lighting Mastery 20

Cold Skills
Frozen Armor 1
Chilling Armor 1

Gear
-none of my gear is perfect because I'm not that rich
Helm
Dream

Ammy
Maras
(metalgrid?)

Rings
Ravenfrost
Wisp (maybe another RF for AR)
(bk? i dont think LL works on elemental damage?)

Armor
Dragon

Weapon
Hoj

Gloves
Rare IAS with stat mods

Boots
Infernal Stride
(Treks if I find them)

This would give you:
+30Holy Shock
+30Holy Fire
-20%Enemy Fire Resistance

Use infinity on merc
Get lvl 12 Conv
-45%-55% Enemy Lighting Resistance

Use the same prebuf gear as any enchantress would (lots of +fireskills)

My main concerns would be
-will I ever hit anyone because of AR
-ill probably die pretty easily b/c there isn't a ton of resistances in that equipment

Anyways let me know what you think and if anyone has done it whats the damage look like? Rightnow I do ~5K-15K with only enchant and dream helm. Dream enchantress claim 5k-50K. Ballpark numbers +230%(FM)*330HolyFire would get you up to 6K-51K. I know its expensive for the extra 1K of damage but...

My opinion

Fable 1 way better then Fable 2, better story, longer much more replayable.
Baldurs Gate 2 Shadows of Amn, amazing throw in the expansion if you beat it (Throne of Baal), or try it without party. Great story.
Baldurs Gate 1, still vary good
Neverwinter Nights, awesome D&D style rpg- easy though
Crono Trigger (Emulate it, old SNES game-great turn based RPG fairly long)
SEIKEN DENSETSU 2 (also an SNES turnbased fighting rpg)
Mass Effect (can be short or long depending on how you play, its a space RPG)
Marrowind, if you want to walk around for hours, you can max every skill! I've never beaten the it... does it have an end?
Oblivion, Marrowind but redundant, slightly better graphics
Knights of the Old Republic (1or2) I wasn't a huge fan but I know some are

I'm still a little confused.

If it drops for each player, say your in a group with 5 people and, using d2 references, your in the den with everyone but 1 guy doing an andy run, after andy is dead he could tp everyone goes there and each would have there own set of items waiting?

Which leads to a more interesting question, if items are calculated similarly factoring in Character Level (of enemy killer) enemy level to get item level does that mean we wont see rolls of high level items even if a high level character finishes the boss of, are all the rolls fixed to our character level and our mf.

The problem I could see with that is having a team where you the guy killing is high and quick at killing but the remainder of the party stands ideal with only magic find gear on and reap the benefits.

One last note, if you are in a group kill the boss and say an item drops for your friend, he happens to not pick it up for some reason, he doesn't want it not enough room etc. but you want it, youll never no its there. It would make sense if it would become a 'global' item after a certian amount of time regaurdless of whether it has been picked up or not.

Just a quick idea, it might be nice if they were organized according to the position the character wears them. Ex. Helm top-middle row of a table, ammy top-right etc.