Assuming the last class isn't some sort of Arcane Archer...
I got this idea for a Wizard spec when I saw the Magic Weapon spell in the Conjuration tree.
Magic Weapon: Imbue your weapon with magical energy granting it increased damage.
Blizzard's putting a lot of versatility in each class, but I realized that you could put a bow or crossbow in the Wizard's hands instead of the more usual staff or sword.
I don't think it's an easy build to make. The new Autostats will make it difficult to equip the harder-hitting bows as you'll be allocating stats away from Dex or Str. Going up and down the Wizard skill tree, there's not much to directly enhance your damage dealing by arrow or bolt: Penetrating Spells, Weapon Mastery, Slowing Strikes, Armor Piercing.
Furthermore, it focuses you away from the big damage dealing stuff mages do: direct-damage spells.
On the other hand, you do have access to a lot snare, root, defensive and movement abilities, such as Teleport, Slow Time, Frost Nova, etc., making you a hard character to pin down or hurt- good for a ranged attacker. Your damage dealing will be less reliant on your mana supply, letting you stay in the fight or continue more steadily than conventional wizards.
Ultimately, this is a build for those who like to go down the less traveled path, and its difficulties and risks might be worth the fun.
From what we've seen so far, the Wizard. I love Disintigrate, Slow Time and Spectral Blade.
However, if the 5th class is a bowman or crossbowman with serious sniping skills, my selection of favorite character and what class I'll play first will change. This will be especially true if he turns out to be a cunning shooter type of thief.
Teleport: Just remove this altogether. I understand its for getting out of tough fights, but come on, put something cooler in the last tier and just get rid of this ridiculous spell. We have frost nova and mirror image to get out of tough spots, the last thing in any tier should be a REALLY cool offensive spell.
I agree that the top tier ability should be a killer offensive ability, but I must strongly disagree to the removal of Teleport. Mobility and location have always been important in D3's predecessors and other similar games, and it certainly will be important for D3 with its deformable and destructible terrain.
Teleport is a powerful, powerful spell in the right hands. Teleport was what allowed me to kill Diablo in D1 with much less risk and more certainty than having to do it the normal way.
It should be retained because of what it allows creative and wily players to do. That kind of cunning and power is what mages in other fantasy games and worlds are all about.
Barbarian
I don't remember a lot of the skills from the barb or the names, but I do remember the Rage system. I for one am really not a fan. It felt weird, and when you are sitting there smashing things and buttons, you don't want to be looking at 3 little globes in the bottom right of the screen to make sure you have enough to use your next move. I know the mana is the same way, but mana is a sliding scale, whereas the 3 globes are a visual count. Big difference when it comes to function.
It honestly felt like I was just smashing buttons and if he did the move, then cool, and if not then just keeep smashing until he did. Mana has a limit, you know when you are reaching the end of the limit and you need to refocus your attacks. With the rage system you add micromanagement to attacks and add limits past something you can control = not Diablo-esque
I like the Rage System's concept, though that's because I'm a WoW and ex-Guild Wars player. I think this could just be a HUD layout thing. Putting your rage indicator elsewhere on the screen might be enough to solve this problem.
The last class: I am not saying I know what it is, but based on my best guess, please dont call it Hunter, Rogue, Assasin, or amazon. Ranger sounds nice ;).
Forgive me if these have been asked or talked about in previous threads i'm just too lazy too look shit up... now question 1: is there a female monk? haven't heard or read anything about that one yet I know they said each class would have both genders but they didn't show a female monk at blizzcon,
Yes, there will be a female monk (or at least you can make your Monk female, though in the official storyline the monk is male). It's just that she wasn't ready yet for showing in BlizzCon.
also why is that when you smash skeletons they bleed and bits of flesh go flying and explode in blood?? skeletal warrior should just shatter and fall apart and not bleed and spill blood it looks stupid.
Because you're not supposed to think too hard about it, and just enjoy the gory fun of the game.
Or, maybe it's the bone marrow you actually see. That can still be a bit bloody.
Seriously, you got good eyes and good critical thinking. It'll probably be ironed out by the time of the release, as Blizz is known for perfectionist polishing up of their games. Hopefully, someone working on D3 will see your thread and fix it.
So we all have seen the wizards globe that slows everything down except his/her attacks. So a barbarian is whirl winding into the wizard. The wizard throws down the globe slowing down the barbarian. While she is able to keep shotting spells at the barbarian. From the videos of the spell it looked like the glode lasted quite a while. I don't fell like going into more detail but i think you get the idea.
To the OP:
Link to the video please, good sir. I wish to see this wizard pwning barb with my own eyes. I will then lend my voice to support your point with much conviction and enthusiasm.
Sorry, but stealth just doesn't go with the Diablo game style. Its all about bulldozing through masses of brainless zombies not sneaking past them.
Who's to say the shooty thief can't "bulldoze" through the zombies? I ask that you don't mistake him for just being a "thief" (though I used word a lot), since he's really an assassin archer, a sharpshooting hired killer, a hitman.
As a hack-and-slash RPG, Diablo 3 is a game that prioritizes combat abilities in characters and this sniper will be no exception to this. He'll still be a marksman par excellence, making carefully aimed killing shots against crowds of enemies, cutting them down methodically one by one.
Stealth isn't the main point or the end-all feature of his class. It's a tool and, from my experience, a very powerful one at that. As you pointed out, he loses a lot of XP along the way. There's nothing stopping you from coming back to reclaim that lost XP. Better yet, where stealth allows you to go where you want to, that means finishing certain quests faster and easier, or even letting you get to areas with treasure or objects of interest safely. That could mean getting items faster and earlier than non-stealthed classes, giving you a distinct edge in the equipment department.
Diablo's gameplay is based on skills and abilities. Blizzard is one very creative game designer, so they can give the class a lot of stealth-based skills that enhance combat and let you mow down zombie after zombie with a sadistic laugh.
Calyx pointed out that it's inefficient to sneak up on foes when you can shoot down from afar. Try this: Diversion - Lay down an object that attracts enemies in a X yard radius and holds their attention for some time. This does not break stealth.
Sneak up on a bunch of enemies to lay down a diversion near them. The monsters then crowd around it. While held in place, you move away to maximum shooting range. You start firing and picking them off, the distance between you and them giving you enough distance and time to dispatch them without fear of counterattack.
Or, borrowing from the D2 Assassin's skill tree (and WoW's Hunter class), the Sniper can get traps that he can lay down between his target and his desired firing position while in stealth (he needs to be in stealth so he does not aggro the monsters as he readies the traps). He starts firing, attracting the mob. The monster closes on him in the most direct and shortest path- through the traps.
And other stuff like that...
Stealth opens up tactical options that can be explored and exploited to "bulldoze" monsters in whole new ways.
I still think that archery and stealth don't fit together.
Subotai, archer and thief, from Conan the Barbarian. Rogues in the original D&D. Rogues through the various editions of D&D until today (if they're not stabby, they're shooty). Garret from the Thief series of games. Almost any assassin in works of fantasy I know either goes shooty if he's not stabby.
When you're wearing light armor and work best by using your agility, going shooty and stealthy isn't just natural or practical, but effective. Very effective, proven effective.
Why would you want to get past enemies instead of mowing them?
The same reason I do that in WoW and did that in Thief: because I'd don't wan't to have to go through the hassle and risk of fighting and killing every mob in the way. At the least, it's time consuming. At most, you can die and suffer a penalty. Just because there's a reward for killing monsters doesn't mean it's your best move.
And even if you're a sniping thief who's willing (and bloodthirsty) enough to cut through all your foes along the way, having stealth abilities remains an advantage. Being able to scout ahead and see where the enemies are while being undetected lets you plans your movement and fights out in advance, to your advantage.
Also, I think blizzard would never let you just run through the whole act past all monsters straight to the boss.
You can't always sneak past monsters straight to the boss in WoW either. And by no means is stealth invisibility- get too close or screw up, and the mobs will be after you. Screw up really bad, and that's one less living rogue.
I trust Blizzard enough to keep things fair and challenging, even with stealth being available to the player. They learned from WoW, so I'm sure if they apply stealth to Diablo, they'll do it right.
I'm also almost 100% sure that stealth will NOT be a core feature of the new class. Stealth has really no place in diablo since it would pretty much slow down your gameplay. Moreover, why would you want to sneak up a horde of enemies if you can pick them off at range. However, a vanish /faint like ability seems logical to shake off your persuers should you be in grave danger, but nothing more..
Not sneak up on them, but sneak past them.
Combat avoidance is one of the best things about Stealth, if not the best thing. It'll actually make gameplay faster since you won't have to fight through every part of the map. Sure, not fighting means having less gold to loot and less XP, but it also means less risk, easier travel, and the ability to go directly to where you need to go rather than having to slog through every creature in your way.
It's something I learned and really appreciate from various stealth based games and game mechanics, from the Thief series to playing a rogue in World of Warcraft.
i don't know what you'd call it, but i'd love to see a an archer class combined with some blademaster (and even sneaky) abilities.
just a few of the latter skills, like blade skills for pushing back monsters so you can pound em with arrows/bolts, and maybe also a "backstab" type skill where you can sneak up and just rape shit from behind.
That combined with archery skills might be too much and too overpowered, but hell, it'd be kick ass.
I'm thinking like an assassin, but not in the D2 sense. like a sneaky bastard who is lethal with weapons. throwing knives would be nice here too if they could make them not a joke.
..thoughts?
"hunter" or "headhunter" or something maybe...
Quote from "Morden79" »
I personally would like to see a retooled Assassin, with more emphasis on ranged combat instead of that Trap crap. I never caught on to traps, and they didn't feel all that natural. Personally, what I would like to see is something more like the Oblivion assassin, bows and blades, with a little bit of stealth (via skill or magic), quick attacks, and poisons. It would be pretty killer, though I have a feeling many would scream "WOW ROGUE REMAKE"...
I'd love to see something like what you both said, basically a mercenary or paid assassin who focused on ranged weapons, a sniper. He or she would be a mix of World of Warcraft Hunter (without the pet) and Rogue (without the melee combat specialization). Bows or crossbows would be his usual tool of the trade. He'd focus on aimed shots: a slow rate of fire that did lethal damage.
This would be a dark character, but unlike the Necromancer who desires power and seeks it through occult paths, he would be down-to-earth, practical, greedy and criminal. He'd wear cloaks, cowls, hoods. Lots of black clothing and armor.
Anyone here play the Thief series of 1st person sneakers? Someone like Garret- very practical, cynical and worldly, yet professional and focused. Or, like the Thieves from the Majesty RTS; I really loved the line they said whenever they got gold: "My ambition has paid off!" A female version would be like the character Haley from the Order of the Stick webcomic.
Skills would include ranged attack stuff, stealth and some dirty fighting tricks for melee (usually to disable opponents or keep them away from you). Sniping shots (long cast time (aiming), but does a lot of extra damage- best done as an initial attack). Sand or dirt in your eyes. Garrotes (silences target; attacking a lone target does not cause other mobs in the area to aggro you for a certain amount of time; if you kill quickly enough, you will leave combat without attracting attention). Trick shots (example: shooting someone in the foot, leg, paw, hoof, tentacle, etc. to slow them down). Stealth (you can sneak by). Distraction 1 (making it easier to sneak by). Distraction 2 (distract an opponent, step back into the shadows, escape).
Don't forget that in Diablo everyone ends up using chain/plate armors. The character don't need to be a solider like class in any means. Look at D1, the rogue ended using a heavy armor and a winged helm. And it's confirmed that the armor system and appearence in D3 will be similar to D1 and D2.
When you start off, I mean. Certainly, everyone gets armored up in the end, but that's not how the characters were originally envisioned. And even in the end, spellcasters and agile skirmishers remain very different from dedicated meat shields.
I agree with the OP's idea. While I believe the last character will primarily use ranged attacks, he or she will be flexible enough to mix in melee.
It's given that ranged weapons will be available in the game, and not just for hirelings. Being able to go almost purely ranged is therefore a strong option.
On the other hand, look at the revealed skill trees for the Barbarian and Wizard. The OP's logic is sound based on those trees. The Wizard not only has close proximity attacks, but a few spells even seem to encourage players to try a melee-based play style (I myself am tempted by this). And when I first saw the videos for the Barbarian's skills, I kept thinking "These are all 'ranged' attacks!"
It seems Blizz is giving each character in the game a lot of customizable options. From what we've seen, you can pick a character class then play it almost whatever way you want, to the point that no two characters of the same class but by different players will be alike.
If so, where the last class may ordinarily or usually be played as a ranged attacker, melee options will still strongly and viably exist.
The Rouge Hands Down
Good Tribute to D1
and we need a bow class
Think about itPlus I think Jay said they were bringing black someone from the Old games (something along thos lines)
HINT HINT ROUGES!
They were in D2 but not playable and that means his statement about Barb being Last Playable Char to bring back from d2 true!
SEEE PLus im sure they are pissed about what happened in D2 even after 20 years
Your Honor I think Ive Proved my Point
Plus they are SEXY who wouldn't want more skinny girls to come back! EVeryone likes Blondes
I have been thinking that the last class has to have some sort of medium to heavy armor. So far, the WD, the Wiz, and the Monk all use lighter armor. In a game like Diablo, you can't have every class using light armor. So, however they spin the ranged class I think it will make use of some heavier armor.
I agree. I'm sure it's going to be a ranged attacker, and he or she'll be more like a soldier than the light, agile skirmisher the Rogue or Amazon were. I think a chainmail-wearing ranger-type who uses bows and crossbows will be the next class.
What I'd like to see though would still be a light skirmisher type though. Basically a cross between WoW's Hunter and Rogue, without the Hunter's pet and the Rogue's close combat specialization. A sniper, a marksman, a hitman using bows or crossbows. He'd focus on aimed shots: a slow rate of fire that did lethal damage.
This would be a dark character, but unlike the Necromancer who desires power and seeks it through occult paths, he would be down-to-earth, practical, greedy and criminal. He'd wear cloaks, cowls, hoods. Lots of black clothing and armor.
Anyone here play the Thief series of 1st person sneakers? Someone like Garret- very practical, cynical and worldly, yet professional and focused. Or, like the Thieves from the Majesty RTS; I really loved the line they said whenever they got gold: "My ambition has paid off!" A female version would be like the character Haley from the Order of the Stick webcomic.
Skills would include ranged attack stuff, stealth and some dirty fighting tricks for melee. Sniping shots (long cast time (aiming), but does a lot of extra damage- best done as an initial attack). Sand or dirt in your eyes. Garrotes (silences target; attacking a lone target does not cause other mobs in the area to aggro you for a certain amount of time; if you kill quickly enough, you will leave combat without attracting attention). Trick shots (example: shooting someone in the foot, leg, paw, hoof, tentacle, etc. to slow them down). Stealth (you can sneak by). Distraction 1 (making it easier to sneak by). Distraction 2 (distract an opponent, step back into the shadows, escape).
0
I got this idea for a Wizard spec when I saw the Magic Weapon spell in the Conjuration tree.
Blizzard's putting a lot of versatility in each class, but I realized that you could put a bow or crossbow in the Wizard's hands instead of the more usual staff or sword.
I don't think it's an easy build to make. The new Autostats will make it difficult to equip the harder-hitting bows as you'll be allocating stats away from Dex or Str. Going up and down the Wizard skill tree, there's not much to directly enhance your damage dealing by arrow or bolt: Penetrating Spells, Weapon Mastery, Slowing Strikes, Armor Piercing.
Furthermore, it focuses you away from the big damage dealing stuff mages do: direct-damage spells.
On the other hand, you do have access to a lot snare, root, defensive and movement abilities, such as Teleport, Slow Time, Frost Nova, etc., making you a hard character to pin down or hurt- good for a ranged attacker. Your damage dealing will be less reliant on your mana supply, letting you stay in the fight or continue more steadily than conventional wizards.
Ultimately, this is a build for those who like to go down the less traveled path, and its difficulties and risks might be worth the fun.
0
However, if the 5th class is a bowman or crossbowman with serious sniping skills, my selection of favorite character and what class I'll play first will change. This will be especially true if he turns out to be a cunning shooter type of thief.
0
I agree that the top tier ability should be a killer offensive ability, but I must strongly disagree to the removal of Teleport. Mobility and location have always been important in D3's predecessors and other similar games, and it certainly will be important for D3 with its deformable and destructible terrain.
Teleport is a powerful, powerful spell in the right hands. Teleport was what allowed me to kill Diablo in D1 with much less risk and more certainty than having to do it the normal way.
It should be retained because of what it allows creative and wily players to do. That kind of cunning and power is what mages in other fantasy games and worlds are all about.
I like the Rage System's concept, though that's because I'm a WoW and ex-Guild Wars player. I think this could just be a HUD layout thing. Putting your rage indicator elsewhere on the screen might be enough to solve this problem.
THANK YOU for that tidbit.
0
Because you're not supposed to think too hard about it, and just enjoy the gory fun of the game.
Or, maybe it's the bone marrow you actually see. That can still be a bit bloody.
Seriously, you got good eyes and good critical thinking. It'll probably be ironed out by the time of the release, as Blizz is known for perfectionist polishing up of their games. Hopefully, someone working on D3 will see your thread and fix it.
0
Link to the video please, good sir. I wish to see this wizard pwning barb with my own eyes. I will then lend my voice to support your point with much conviction and enthusiasm.
1
As a hack-and-slash RPG, Diablo 3 is a game that prioritizes combat abilities in characters and this sniper will be no exception to this. He'll still be a marksman par excellence, making carefully aimed killing shots against crowds of enemies, cutting them down methodically one by one.
Stealth isn't the main point or the end-all feature of his class. It's a tool and, from my experience, a very powerful one at that. As you pointed out, he loses a lot of XP along the way. There's nothing stopping you from coming back to reclaim that lost XP. Better yet, where stealth allows you to go where you want to, that means finishing certain quests faster and easier, or even letting you get to areas with treasure or objects of interest safely. That could mean getting items faster and earlier than non-stealthed classes, giving you a distinct edge in the equipment department.
Diablo's gameplay is based on skills and abilities. Blizzard is one very creative game designer, so they can give the class a lot of stealth-based skills that enhance combat and let you mow down zombie after zombie with a sadistic laugh.
Calyx pointed out that it's inefficient to sneak up on foes when you can shoot down from afar. Try this:
Diversion - Lay down an object that attracts enemies in a X yard radius and holds their attention for some time. This does not break stealth.
Sneak up on a bunch of enemies to lay down a diversion near them. The monsters then crowd around it. While held in place, you move away to maximum shooting range. You start firing and picking them off, the distance between you and them giving you enough distance and time to dispatch them without fear of counterattack.
Or, borrowing from the D2 Assassin's skill tree (and WoW's Hunter class), the Sniper can get traps that he can lay down between his target and his desired firing position while in stealth (he needs to be in stealth so he does not aggro the monsters as he readies the traps). He starts firing, attracting the mob. The monster closes on him in the most direct and shortest path- through the traps.
And other stuff like that...
Stealth opens up tactical options that can be explored and exploited to "bulldoze" monsters in whole new ways.
0
When you're wearing light armor and work best by using your agility, going shooty and stealthy isn't just natural or practical, but effective. Very effective, proven effective.
The same reason I do that in WoW and did that in Thief: because I'd don't wan't to have to go through the hassle and risk of fighting and killing every mob in the way. At the least, it's time consuming. At most, you can die and suffer a penalty. Just because there's a reward for killing monsters doesn't mean it's your best move.
And even if you're a sniping thief who's willing (and bloodthirsty) enough to cut through all your foes along the way, having stealth abilities remains an advantage. Being able to scout ahead and see where the enemies are while being undetected lets you plans your movement and fights out in advance, to your advantage.
You can't always sneak past monsters straight to the boss in WoW either. And by no means is stealth invisibility- get too close or screw up, and the mobs will be after you. Screw up really bad, and that's one less living rogue.
I trust Blizzard enough to keep things fair and challenging, even with stealth being available to the player. They learned from WoW, so I'm sure if they apply stealth to Diablo, they'll do it right.
0
Combat avoidance is one of the best things about Stealth, if not the best thing. It'll actually make gameplay faster since you won't have to fight through every part of the map. Sure, not fighting means having less gold to loot and less XP, but it also means less risk, easier travel, and the ability to go directly to where you need to go rather than having to slog through every creature in your way.
It's something I learned and really appreciate from various stealth based games and game mechanics, from the Thief series to playing a rogue in World of Warcraft.
0
I'd love to see something like what you both said, basically a mercenary or paid assassin who focused on ranged weapons, a sniper. He or she would be a mix of World of Warcraft Hunter (without the pet) and Rogue (without the melee combat specialization). Bows or crossbows would be his usual tool of the trade. He'd focus on aimed shots: a slow rate of fire that did lethal damage.
This would be a dark character, but unlike the Necromancer who desires power and seeks it through occult paths, he would be down-to-earth, practical, greedy and criminal. He'd wear cloaks, cowls, hoods. Lots of black clothing and armor.
Anyone here play the Thief series of 1st person sneakers? Someone like Garret- very practical, cynical and worldly, yet professional and focused. Or, like the Thieves from the Majesty RTS; I really loved the line they said whenever they got gold: "My ambition has paid off!" A female version would be like the character Haley from the Order of the Stick webcomic.
Skills would include ranged attack stuff, stealth and some dirty fighting tricks for melee (usually to disable opponents or keep them away from you). Sniping shots (long cast time (aiming), but does a lot of extra damage- best done as an initial attack). Sand or dirt in your eyes. Garrotes (silences target; attacking a lone target does not cause other mobs in the area to aggro you for a certain amount of time; if you kill quickly enough, you will leave combat without attracting attention). Trick shots (example: shooting someone in the foot, leg, paw, hoof, tentacle, etc. to slow them down). Stealth (you can sneak by). Distraction 1 (making it easier to sneak by). Distraction 2 (distract an opponent, step back into the shadows, escape).
0
0
It's given that ranged weapons will be available in the game, and not just for hirelings. Being able to go almost purely ranged is therefore a strong option.
On the other hand, look at the revealed skill trees for the Barbarian and Wizard. The OP's logic is sound based on those trees. The Wizard not only has close proximity attacks, but a few spells even seem to encourage players to try a melee-based play style (I myself am tempted by this). And when I first saw the videos for the Barbarian's skills, I kept thinking "These are all 'ranged' attacks!"
It seems Blizz is giving each character in the game a lot of customizable options. From what we've seen, you can pick a character class then play it almost whatever way you want, to the point that no two characters of the same class but by different players will be alike.
If so, where the last class may ordinarily or usually be played as a ranged attacker, melee options will still strongly and viably exist.
0
Sorry, I couldn't resist...
I agree. I'm sure it's going to be a ranged attacker, and he or she'll be more like a soldier than the light, agile skirmisher the Rogue or Amazon were. I think a chainmail-wearing ranger-type who uses bows and crossbows will be the next class.
What I'd like to see though would still be a light skirmisher type though. Basically a cross between WoW's Hunter and Rogue, without the Hunter's pet and the Rogue's close combat specialization. A sniper, a marksman, a hitman using bows or crossbows. He'd focus on aimed shots: a slow rate of fire that did lethal damage.
This would be a dark character, but unlike the Necromancer who desires power and seeks it through occult paths, he would be down-to-earth, practical, greedy and criminal. He'd wear cloaks, cowls, hoods. Lots of black clothing and armor.
Anyone here play the Thief series of 1st person sneakers? Someone like Garret- very practical, cynical and worldly, yet professional and focused. Or, like the Thieves from the Majesty RTS; I really loved the line they said whenever they got gold: "My ambition has paid off!" A female version would be like the character Haley from the Order of the Stick webcomic.
Skills would include ranged attack stuff, stealth and some dirty fighting tricks for melee. Sniping shots (long cast time (aiming), but does a lot of extra damage- best done as an initial attack). Sand or dirt in your eyes. Garrotes (silences target; attacking a lone target does not cause other mobs in the area to aggro you for a certain amount of time; if you kill quickly enough, you will leave combat without attracting attention). Trick shots (example: shooting someone in the foot, leg, paw, hoof, tentacle, etc. to slow them down). Stealth (you can sneak by). Distraction 1 (making it easier to sneak by). Distraction 2 (distract an opponent, step back into the shadows, escape).