Furthermore, to add to this subject, what is everyone's theory regarding the mechanics of Combination Strike? Does it just add 8% dps for 3 seconds and each hit refreshes the timer or does it stack over each hit and each stack lasts 3 seconds? I'm guessing its the former, the later would be nuts.
With each different generator used it adds 8% damage. So if you used only crippling wave it only gives you 8%. If you use deadly reach twice then finish with crippling wave it adds 16%
With each different generator used it adds 8% damage. So if you used only crippling wave it only gives you 8%. If you use deadly reach twice then finish with crippling wave it adds 16%
That makes sense. But I'd imagine the first 8% comes from switching from your 1st gen to your 2nd gen then an extra 8% when going to a 3rd gen. I don't think you'd get the 8% bonus from having this Passive and just using one generator from how it's worded.
There was a thread I was involved in a while back where we were asking Blizzard if the GUI could be configured so that we could stack generators in the order we wanted, e.g. strike 1 from skill 1, strike 2 from skill 2, strike 3 from skill 3, for example. It just wasn't practical to make this a part of the game interface itself, however with mouse macros it seems entirely possible to achieve this!
My only concern, taking a step back, is that I think overall the build is inefficient because you require too many skill slots with not enough left over for utility:
- The build lacks mobility
- The build lacks the ability to dump fury into higher damage skills (SSS has a high CD)
- The build lacks hard cc and escapes
All of these things are because you have 3 slots and a passive taken up with things you need to make the build work
Overall very interesting though.
With 3 generators you have to be crazy not to take combination strike . With that you don't need a large damaging spirit spender, your generators do more then enough for that. So that leave your last few skills with some survivability , so you could put in a mobility skill a CC and an some extra defence skill. If your not careful tho your skill and passives are sucked up and your build may not work.
Doesn't take away from the fact that the build is inefficient. It uses 3 skills to form 1 effective skill. Sure you get some small bonuses from the combinations (like a teleport on 1st strike, an enemy debuff etc.) but those things are small compared to having actual utility spells like dashing strike, cyclone strike etc.
Not sure about the semi-randomization though. You may be better off getting a slower attack speed and just sticking to a consistent combo. With a build like this:
Also, it may be better to use only 2 generators because it allows you to take advantage of one generator only for the 3rd strike and gives a bit more flexibility. I like the idea of using 3 though, if not 4.
And you could just alternate between the two. Anyways... it's an interesting setup, I definitely think there will be at least 1 legitimate build using 3 generators, we'll have to see about using 4 though.
There was a thread I was involved in a while back where we were asking Blizzard if the GUI could be configured so that we could stack generators in the order we wanted, e.g. strike 1 from skill 1, strike 2 from skill 2, strike 3 from skill 3, for example. It just wasn't practical to make this a part of the game interface itself, however with mouse macros it seems entirely possible to achieve this!
My only concern, taking a step back, is that I think overall the build is inefficient because you require too many skill slots with not enough left over for utility:
- The build lacks mobility
- The build lacks the ability to dump fury into higher damage skills (SSS has a high CD)
- The build lacks hard cc and escapes
All of these things are because you have 3 slots and a passive taken up with things you need to make the build work
Overall very interesting though.
With 3 generators you have to be crazy not to take combination strike . With that you don't need a large damaging spirit spender, your generators do more then enough for that. So that leave your last few skills with some survivability , so you could put in a mobility skill a CC and an some extra defence skill. If your not careful tho your skill and passives are sucked up and your build may not work.
Doesn't take away from the fact that the build is inefficient. It uses 3 skills to form 1 effective skill. Sure you get some small bonuses from the combinations (like a teleport on 1st strike, an enemy debuff etc.) but those things are small compared to having actual utility spells like dashing strike, cyclone strike etc.
The runes on the spirit generators are quite diverse in that you can take some for utility. Not to mention thats what your last 3 skill slots can be used for. If thought out it will be quite a good setup.
So if you really feel like its worth it go for it but the warden might see you
Meh, I digress. This doesn't exactly put your character on auto-pilot. You still need to control a LOT of what is happening. The only thing it's doing is clicking left click, right click and 1 key on keyboard in sequence so you don't have to. Besides they sell the Diablo 3 Steelseires mouse with a big fat mouse software for creating macros and different binds, I don't see them having a major problem with it. Not a single blue has commented on the official forums about it and a bunch of people are talking about weaving combos on Monks using macros. I guess regarding that subject we shall continue forward until we get a slap on the wrist.
I'm going to do some defending here, because I think what nttdemented has shown us is useful.
The macro is not doing the playing. You still need to control your character, make sure you're not getting surrounded, controlled with CC, using defensive abilities etc. All this macro does is enables you to execute combos at a fast rate. Because let's face it, a monk with around 3 aps is going to hit so fast that landing these tricky combos at full speed is actually REALLY hard, especially when you have everything else going on. Compared to other classes, a monk who wants to use combos actually has a really difficult job.
I am not saying that i personally feel like using a macro is wrong but all of you that are thinking about this should know its right out there on the border of getting baned.
As far as i know its one button one action if you put more actions with timers in the macro you are doing automation and breaking the TOS.
So if you really feel like its worth it go for it but the warden might see you
For a start, that's only for SC2 which is a highly competitive game, where having an unfair advantage basically equals cheating.
D3 is mostly co-op, so I think they'd be more relaxed about this kind of macro usage. Also I think they would have to explicitly state that it's illegal before banning anyone. For example in that thread, the players are referring to parts of the SC2 EULA, meaning that Blizzard has specifically ruled out certain automations.
Still it's worth checking, because none of us want to get banned.
Just found this topic browsing the forums, and I must say it's quite awesome. In defense of the macros, I feel like Blizzard designed the skills to be combo-ed, but there's likely only a small percentage of people (and computers/connections for that matter) that could actually perform the combos that fast. It's more like the macro is a matter of efficiency as opposed to taking advantage of a part of the game. Also, this is the only thing I see that I would use a macro for in the entire game thus far. Now, a question:
I'm not terribly good at programming/making macros and such, so I was wondering the way you determine the delay based on your attack speed.
I'm not terribly good at programming/making macros and such, so I was wondering the way you determine the delay based on your attack speed.
Trial and error each time your attack speed changes. So if you get new weapons that are faster or slower you will need to go back to the macro and compensate. Basically try to get the macro to allow you to do the 3 hits consecutively without missing the 3rd strike. Each generator has different speeds so don't go to crazy on getting each one to hit perfect. Just set the same timing between them and go up and down 2ms at a time on all 3 of them until you can do the 3rd strike reliably when you click shift + macro once.
I dont think macros would work as well as you would think. If you kill enemies only 2/3 of the way through your combo the macro will now be out of synchronization.
Nice idea, and it's pretty cool to see it working in the beta already. It has great potential.
But I'm going to definitely advise to be very cautious about the use of the macro thing come retail. Just because at that attack speed it's difficult to manually manage your attacks generally does not excuse the use of out of game influences, big or small. I'm sure they've had enough of bots and will stop anything that even inches towards it, too. After all, for them it's not worth making all these intricate exceptions just for a few rare build variations.
Again I'm not saying what you're doing is bad, just be cautious. I'd definitely hold out until they give an answer if I were you. Or go through the ToA where it's probably mentioned in some vague way or another.
If I play as a Monk, I'll definitely not be relying on any macro to make combinations work. I prefer real-time control if I ever wanna make a Combination Strike build work.
I think after some time I can just monitor it in my head and get used to the system to the point where I know exactly what "stage" is going to come out and what's most useful for the situation at hand (a debuff for rares hitting me, or a bigger AoE to kill the 5 skeleton archers behind them, or a massive AoE to kill the rares quickly).
I could be underestimating the attackspeed bonuses later in the game, but I don't believe it will ever be quicker than something like 3 attacks/sec, and I guess I can deal with that =]
Furthermore, to add to this subject, what is everyone's theory regarding the mechanics of Combination Strike? Does it just add 8% dps for 3 seconds and each hit refreshes the timer or does it stack over each hit and each stack lasts 3 seconds? I'm guessing its the former, the later would be nuts.
Changed around my remaining skills a bit in response to survivability and mobility woes:
-Changed SSS + Fulminating Onslaught for LTK + Scorpion Sting. Being able to spam this it will make a good form of crowd control that will be continuous while doing the 3 generator combos.
-Changed Breath of Heaven + Blazing Wrath for Serenity + Peaceful Response. Still get the healing on cooldown but add the serenity shield for 3 seconds for when you are about to either confront a champion pack with a bunch of control impairing affixes or as emergency cover if you get overwhelmed. You can kick everyone away with LTK in these cases, should give you enough time to run away and recover before jumping back into the fray.
-Changed the rune on Mantra of Conviction to Overawe to make up for the lost damage buff from removing Blazing Wrath from Breath of Heaven. I figured you will need some gear to support this build anyway so add one more thing to the list of things that will be required from gear.
-Changed Seize the Initiative to Sixth Sense to add to The Guardian's path dodge bonus. The goal will be to look for as much dodge chance as possible so you can avoid getting hit as much as possible.
From gear you will need, high aps, life leach, as much dex as possible and bonuses to critical strikes for added damage and dodging from Sixth Sense.
Can't wait to get the game on my hands to test all this.
I like the idea of 3 primaries and using that macro for insane speed. If you're nearly at 3 attacks/sec. at level 13, I don't think it's too much of a leap to say you will hit over 3 attacks/sec. at or before level 60. Your build looks good but I'm curious about the mathematics of damage. I can't say for certain but last I recall that damage increases (just like damage reduction) are multiplicative. I wonder if Crippling Wave (Breaking Wave rune) is actually LESS dps than Crippling Wave (Mangle rune) because of how the way damage increases work. 10% more damage after all that increase you're already getting MIGHT be less overall damage than the additional 33% weapon damage on that 1 hit. If it works like how I'm guessing it will (with Mangle being more damage because of the stacking increases in damage) then I think this would be a better build.
Also, does anyone have any idea which might be more damage between Way of the Hundred Fists (Hands of Lightning rune) V.S. Way of the Hundred Fists (Windforce Flurry rune)? I know no one has really gotten to play with either, but what do you guys think?
I really wanted to use Wave of Light (Pillar of the Ancients rune) but after they nerfed it a few patches back it's just not worth it. I miss the days when it did 800% weapon damage instead of 210%. Sigh.... That's my single biggest disappointment from all of these patches....
3 generator build was shown I think at blizzcon before they scrapped some of the combos and made them use spirit but it's been done and it's been done at fast speeds using just skill... Thing is it seemed to be second nature in people who actually played the monk for an extended period and was considered by the devs as a skill cap at one point. Then they scrapped the main concept by making some of the better options use spirit (before it was mainly just defensive c/d's). So~ I don't doubt a 3 generator build will be viable but not optimal seeing as how the 3 generator concept was ripped apart to some degree in an attempt it seems to lower the skill cap on the "harder class to master". Keyboard and mouse macros in any blizz game are considered 3rd party exploit so the last thing I expected was someone posting a video from their account seeing as blizz can step in at any time and trash all your licenses with the ban hammer (sc2 and wow have both said this d3 is no diff).
Nice idea, and it's pretty cool to see it working in the beta already. It has great potential.
But I'm going to definitely advise to be very cautious about the use of the macro thing come retail. Just because at that attack speed it's difficult to manually manage your attacks generally does not excuse the use of out of game influences, big or small. I'm sure they've had enough of bots and will stop anything that even inches towards it, too. After all, for them it's not worth making all these intricate exceptions just for a few rare build variations.
Again I'm not saying what you're doing is bad, just be cautious. I'd definitely hold out until they give an answer if I were you. Or go through the ToA where it's probably mentioned in some vague way or another.
At any rate, good luck with it =)
Well, the topic has stayed on the first page of on the official Monk Class forums and I specifically requested clarification from Blizzard. At this point a Blue hasnt directly responded in any of my threads but someone posted on my thread on the official forums that they saw a blue post stating that macros wouldnt be a problem in D3. Guess we have to let this play out.
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That makes sense. But I'd imagine the first 8% comes from switching from your 1st gen to your 2nd gen then an extra 8% when going to a 3rd gen. I don't think you'd get the 8% bonus from having this Passive and just using one generator from how it's worded.
Doesn't take away from the fact that the build is inefficient. It uses 3 skills to form 1 effective skill. Sure you get some small bonuses from the combinations (like a teleport on 1st strike, an enemy debuff etc.) but those things are small compared to having actual utility spells like dashing strike, cyclone strike etc.
Not sure about the semi-randomization though. You may be better off getting a slower attack speed and just sticking to a consistent combo. With a build like this:
http://us.battle.net...onk#aUW!..g!aaZ
OR
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#aUb!..g!aab
Also, it may be better to use only 2 generators because it allows you to take advantage of one generator only for the 3rd strike and gives a bit more flexibility. I like the idea of using 3 though, if not 4.
With 4 you might have at least 2 macros...
Your first macro would be generators 1/2/3 and your second macro would be generators 4/2/3. Something like this: http://us.battle.net...k#abUW!..g!aaca
And you could just alternate between the two. Anyways... it's an interesting setup, I definitely think there will be at least 1 legitimate build using 3 generators, we'll have to see about using 4 though.
Meh, I digress. This doesn't exactly put your character on auto-pilot. You still need to control a LOT of what is happening. The only thing it's doing is clicking left click, right click and 1 key on keyboard in sequence so you don't have to. Besides they sell the Diablo 3 Steelseires mouse with a big fat mouse software for creating macros and different binds, I don't see them having a major problem with it. Not a single blue has commented on the official forums about it and a bunch of people are talking about weaving combos on Monks using macros. I guess regarding that subject we shall continue forward until we get a slap on the wrist.
For a start, that's only for SC2 which is a highly competitive game, where having an unfair advantage basically equals cheating.
D3 is mostly co-op, so I think they'd be more relaxed about this kind of macro usage. Also I think they would have to explicitly state that it's illegal before banning anyone. For example in that thread, the players are referring to parts of the SC2 EULA, meaning that Blizzard has specifically ruled out certain automations.
Still it's worth checking, because none of us want to get banned.
I'm not terribly good at programming/making macros and such, so I was wondering the way you determine the delay based on your attack speed.
Trial and error each time your attack speed changes. So if you get new weapons that are faster or slower you will need to go back to the macro and compensate. Basically try to get the macro to allow you to do the 3 hits consecutively without missing the 3rd strike. Each generator has different speeds so don't go to crazy on getting each one to hit perfect. Just set the same timing between them and go up and down 2ms at a time on all 3 of them until you can do the 3rd strike reliably when you click shift + macro once.
how can i request this to be pinned?
hope this works.
But I'm going to definitely advise to be very cautious about the use of the macro thing come retail. Just because at that attack speed it's difficult to manually manage your attacks generally does not excuse the use of out of game influences, big or small. I'm sure they've had enough of bots and will stop anything that even inches towards it, too. After all, for them it's not worth making all these intricate exceptions just for a few rare build variations.
Again I'm not saying what you're doing is bad, just be cautious. I'd definitely hold out until they give an answer if I were you. Or go through the ToA where it's probably mentioned in some vague way or another.
At any rate, good luck with it =)
I think after some time I can just monitor it in my head and get used to the system to the point where I know exactly what "stage" is going to come out and what's most useful for the situation at hand (a debuff for rares hitting me, or a bigger AoE to kill the 5 skeleton archers behind them, or a massive AoE to kill the rares quickly).
I could be underestimating the attackspeed bonuses later in the game, but I don't believe it will ever be quicker than something like 3 attacks/sec, and I guess I can deal with that =]
I like the idea of 3 primaries and using that macro for insane speed. If you're nearly at 3 attacks/sec. at level 13, I don't think it's too much of a leap to say you will hit over 3 attacks/sec. at or before level 60. Your build looks good but I'm curious about the mathematics of damage. I can't say for certain but last I recall that damage increases (just like damage reduction) are multiplicative. I wonder if Crippling Wave (Breaking Wave rune) is actually LESS dps than Crippling Wave (Mangle rune) because of how the way damage increases work. 10% more damage after all that increase you're already getting MIGHT be less overall damage than the additional 33% weapon damage on that 1 hit. If it works like how I'm guessing it will (with Mangle being more damage because of the stacking increases in damage) then I think this would be a better build.
Also, does anyone have any idea which might be more damage between Way of the Hundred Fists (Hands of Lightning rune) V.S. Way of the Hundred Fists (Windforce Flurry rune)? I know no one has really gotten to play with either, but what do you guys think?
I really wanted to use Wave of Light (Pillar of the Ancients rune) but after they nerfed it a few patches back it's just not worth it. I miss the days when it did 800% weapon damage instead of 210%. Sigh.... That's my single biggest disappointment from all of these patches....
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#aWUZgk!dXg!aacaaa
Well, the topic has stayed on the first page of on the official Monk Class forums and I specifically requested clarification from Blizzard. At this point a Blue hasnt directly responded in any of my threads but someone posted on my thread on the official forums that they saw a blue post stating that macros wouldnt be a problem in D3. Guess we have to let this play out.