I consider myself a casual player, as I can only play a couple hours at night. I know that I will never have the best gear and there is a possibility that I may never find certain items that I would like for my characters. However, I do feel that having season-only legendaries that do not transfer would make me feel like I'm missing out on some of the experience that the game has to offer. Furthermore, if those season-only legs only transferred and did not enter the overall drop pool, then I would feel like I need to play ladders just so I have a chance of experiencing those items.
From my perspective, I think that having the items fall into the general pool at the end of the season is a great compromise. I've been spending 95% of my time on my wizard since RoS came out. I'm certain that I will still not have all of my classes geared to my desired levels by the time the first season ends. Having the items in the drop pool at the end of the season would allow me to focus my efforts on the way I want to play, rather than switching to ladders.
I consider myself a casual player, as I can only play a couple hours at night. I know that I will never have the best gear and there is a possibility that I may never find certain items that I would like for my characters. However, I do feel that having season-only legendaries that do not transfer would make me feel like I'm missing out on some of the experience that the game has to offer. Furthermore, if those season-only legs only transferred and did not enter the overall drop pool, then I would feel like I need to play ladders just so I have a chance of experiencing those items.
From my perspective, I think that having the items fall into the general pool at the end of the season is a great compromise. I've been spending 95% of my time on my wizard since RoS came out. I'm certain that I will still not have all of my classes geared to my desired levels by the time the first season ends. Having the items in the drop pool at the end of the season would allow me to focus my efforts on the way I want to play, rather than switching to ladders.
This is where I'm at.
I don't begrudge those that want to go for it, great, go for it.
And I see that this WILL generate new items at something resembling a regular pace, sorta I guess.
If I see the need or want to roll a new character, this IS where I woudl do it, And I might, I have 2 or everything and there are some that I will decide to get rid of. So, While I'm not really the competitive soul some are, I can see it's uses, even from my casual point of view.
In other words, (Blizzard forget about them, develop this game for ME), yet you try to say others are "Selfish/Ignorant"
Isn't that YOUR argument too?
Fuck people who don't have tons of time, give ME what I want regardless of what they want.
You couldn't be a bigger hypocrite.
Quote from Thornagol
From my perspective, I think that having the items fall into the general pool at the end of the season is a great compromise.
I agree.... depending on the length of the season.
If we end up with 6-month-long seasons most people aren't going to wait around that long to get a taste of the new items. In order for the "becomes available to everyone" bit to be functional, I would think the seasons would have to be about 2 months long, 3 at the most.
2 months seems mostly reasonable for the 10hr/day crowd to get T6-capable characters, find new items before the rest of us, etc. It also seems short enough that the people who choose not to do seasons aren't completely left in the dust.
In other words, (Blizzard forget about them, develop this game for ME), yet you try to say others are "Selfish/Ignorant"
Isn't that YOUR argument too?
Fuck people who don't have tons of time, give ME what I want regardless of what they want.
You couldn't be a bigger hypocrite.
Quote from Thornagol From my perspective, I think that having the items fall into the general pool at the end of the season is a great compromise.
I agree.... depending on the length of the season.
If we end up with 6-month-long seasons most people aren't going to wait around that long to get a taste of the new items. In order for the "becomes available to everyone" bit to be functional, I would think the seasons would have to be about 2 months long, 3 at the most.
2 months seems mostly reasonable for the 10hr/day crowd to get T6-capable characters, find new items before the rest of us, etc. It also seems short enough that the people who choose not to do seasons aren't completely left in the dust.
I don't see that as a "good" compromise, I feel like they shouldn't have any advantage to get any item over me just because they want to play seasons. I'm not saying that seasons shouldn't reward players. But I feel like giving them early access to new legendaries is a bit too much. Why not add the legendaries universally and make some cool season only cosmetic awards. Ex: Obtaining Plvl 100 in season 1 gives you a cool transmog for your chest, completely new and unique. That makes me wanna do seasons, saying that in order to get the new legs as they come out I have to play seasons makes me hate the idea even further than I already do. I'm not a fan of seasons and I don't care if it's in the game for others, but if it's over incentivized i'd rather them leave it out.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Not even Death will save you from Diablo Bunny's Cuteness!
IMO, the best solution is to use ladder seasons to introduce a bunch of new legendaries (no orange rares, please)... possibly even sharing a common theme, which start off in ladder play, but are released into general population after a fixed time (e.g. two to four weeks), regardless of season length. This would give ladder players a 'got there first' feel (which is basically what the ladder mindset is, isn't it?), while giving others a reason to give a damn about ladder seasons.
IMO, the best solution is to use ladder seasons to introduce a bunch of new legendaries (no orange rares, please)... possibly even sharing a common theme, which start off in ladder play, but are released into general population after a fixed time (e.g. two to four weeks), regardless of season length. This would give ladder players a 'got there first' feel (which is basically what the ladder mindset is, isn't it?), while giving others a reason to give a damn about ladder seasons.
Probably the fairest idea suggested.
I think for most people who aren't into ladders the thought that they might have to wait for the end of a six-month ladder season is what gets them feeling "forced" to play ladders. If we only had to wait a month for the items to be introduced.... well that wouldn't be too bad of a compromise really.
I don't mind waiting 3 months to get access to the best loot if that means I don't have to wipe my progress every 3 months. Not that I'll never play seasons, I might still check them out just for a change of pace, same with pvp. I'm fine with seasons as they are currently planned. Just my 2c.
I think ladders should just be on a separate realm. No transfer of gear or characters to other realms.
I would open up quite a few different Ladder Realms and have one starting up maybe once a month. A ladder could be open for 1 month to maybe a full year. The short ones will be more of races. The long ones will be more about getting Paragons and or collecting all the special loot and legendaries.
I would have seasons that only focused on only using crafted gear. That means you have to make the gear and the only drops and things to purchase would be crafting components.
I would call the Ladder Realms Tournaments and they should be named after the theme of the tournament.
I would even up some designs of the Tournament to the puplic
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
On Strike and supporting Fallout 4 Mod Makers
Some fallout 4 mod makers have had their mods stolen and uploaded and downloaded on Bethesda's site for the Xbox One.
There seems to be an irrational fear about people getting ahead of others simply by playing in the ladders.
1) The "season" only legendaries are being placed into the drop pools at some point that hasn't been clarified (unless already stated at the end of the season?).
2) By playing in the ladders you are actually putting yourself behind the softcore&hardcore realms. The only people that won't be affected by this are the people already t5/6 geared out and are looking for those perfect rolls.
3) Is there even any reward to playing the ladders right now? As it looks currently it is simply for the competitive people that have been asking for a ladder system for a long time now.
*edit* 3b) And I have seen nothing that states your characters+items will transfer to softcore/hardcore realms at the end of the season. If anything end of seasons wipe the characters so.... that = what kind of progress gain over the softcore&hardcore realms?
4) I would agree with another poster commenting on some kind of cosmetic rewards i.e. paragon portraits, auras/glows, feat of strength achievements. And guess what, these again have 0, ZERO, impact on the sofcore&hardcore realms.
Unless I have missed something about seasons giving people a leg (seriously no pun intended) up over the softcore&hardcore realms, I haven't seen it.
There seems to be an irrational fear about people getting ahead of others simply by playing in the ladders.
I think the (entirely rational) fear is that Blizzard has an established track record of long and/or erratic seasons (e.g. D2, SC2 and WoW), and as noble as the idea of dropping season legendaries into the general pool is, it's the timeframe that matters. Facilitating player preference (not choice) is all about carefully managing the various reward structures. Blizzard has (IMO) messed that up hugely with the current Campaign vs. Adventure mode situation, and to a lesser extent with the new (we doubled it!) rift buff becoming permanent. I don't have a lot of confidence that they'll get ladder vs. non-ladder right the first time around, either.
In other words, (Blizzard forget about them, develop this game for ME), yet you try to say others are "Selfish/Ignorant"
Isn't that YOUR argument too?
Fuck people who don't have tons of time, give ME what I want regardless of what they want.
You couldn't be a bigger hypocrite.
Quote from Thornagol From my perspective, I think that having the items fall into the general pool at the end of the season is a great compromise.
I agree.... depending on the length of the season.
If we end up with 6-month-long seasons most people aren't going to wait around that long to get a taste of the new items. In order for the "becomes available to everyone" bit to be functional, I would think the seasons would have to be about 2 months long, 3 at the most.
2 months seems mostly reasonable for the 10hr/day crowd to get T6-capable characters, find new items before the rest of us, etc. It also seems short enough that the people who choose not to do seasons aren't completely left in the dust.
No, you clearly didn't read a word I said, I'm happy with what ever blizzard decide to "ADD" to the diablo 3's depth and complexity, I'm going to take what ever they add ( the more the merrier) with a positive mind set and try to enjoy it
As opposed to sitting there finding a pseudo personal drawback from a hypochondriac stand-point and cry about the immediate benefits favoring a different crowd and try to strip away at each addition bit by bit.
TLDR Any addition to Diablo is much needed and should be welcomed by all players to embrace in a positive mindset, find the positive in the "personal drawback", stop being a whining blizzard pitchfork QQer, it's getting old
Yeah, you totally owned me with your CAPS RANTING. That's a clear sign of a rational, adult, argument.
I'm sorry but this is a fansite and we ALL want our opinions heard. If you can't come up with something other than "you want Blizzard to listen to what you want" then maybe you should go back to wherever you came from. As catalept so eloquently pointed out there ARE reasons to fear some of the mentality behind these decisions. Multiple Blizzard games thusfar have, indeed, had erratic season lengths (D2, SC2, and WoW are all very valid examples) and there IS a problem if seasons start to last 6-12 months when there are season-only items. I'm going to quote him because he put it very succinctly:
Quote from Catalept
Facilitating player preference (not choice) is all about carefully managing the various reward structures. Blizzard has (IMO) messed that up hugely with the current Campaign vs. Adventure mode situation, and to a lesser extent with the new (we doubled it!) rift buff becoming permanent. I don't have a lot of confidence that they'll get ladder vs. non-ladder right the first time around, either.
Of course I wouldn't expect someone who has their ears plugged to understand this kind of very simple logic. We've had pages of discussion about how Josh only partially delivered on "build-changing" legendaries and how it IS discouraging to non-ladder players when Wyatt says they have no intention of fixing the orange stat stick items because they'd just rather add new items. Ruksak has been quite vocal about it and I happen to agree with him completely.
Campaign mode is already a complete disaster that begs the question "why is this still in the game?" And that's EXACTLY what some of us fear is going to happen to non-ladder play. Why? Because Blizzard clearly was OK with completely obsoleting campaign mode in favor of adventure mode so why wouldn't they be OK with making non-ladder play completely obsolete? The precedent is right there, clear as crystal. You can't ignore it just because it's convenient.
When they say "season-only loot" that sounds a lot like "rifts have bonus chance to get legendaries" to me. It sounds like they're adding things at first blush. But in reality that buff to rifts, while making rifts better, also made campaign mode completely worthless. These changes don't exist in a bubble and only a naive person would actually believe that they're just "adding things." In reality they "added" adventure mode. And look how many people play campaign mode now.
It's not remotely irrational to believe they'll add ladders and because of HOW they do it (lack of care for personal preference) they'll make non-ladder obsolete. That's what some of us are concerned about. You can't debunk that no matter how hard you try.
I don't think that the comparison with campaign and adventure mode dynamics is that accurate. If a person would play D3 now for the first time, he would probably want to complete the campaign once. That's what the campaign is for and it's been like that in basically every game other than heavy rpg's like Baldur's Gate for an example. Since D3 is more action oriented, it was just natural in my opinion, for them to steer off campaign and develop other game mods for the players to enjoy.
The fact is that almost none of us will continously play D3 for years to come. Everyone takes a break at some point and when you come back you'd have a new / mid season waiting for you with some new items that might add a further incentive for you to play. We can't hold back the game's progress as a whole just because we are afraid that we might not be playing for a while when a season starts or something like that.
I am not saying that this is the absolute perfect direction the game could have gone to. In my opinion, the investment and development should go towards adding more content to rifts like more randomized maps, more mob combos, more bosses, more events like ubers / cursed chests inside rifts, etc... And then also adding different game modes like PVP / PVPE arenas and whatnot. But obviously this direction requires more money to develop and the return is not as direct as an automatic system that reboots itself every x months and all they need to do is just add a couple of "new" items... probably old items that were previously scratched off and are now being reintroduced.
TLDR: Basically we are screwed and we know it. But, i'm still going to play because there are certain things that i enjoy.
Id be alright with it if season wasnt designed as a fresh start. Seriously I put countless hours into my character why the heck would I want to start from scratch, they could at least let us keep the para levels.
I don't think that the comparison with campaign and adventure mode dynamics is that accurate. If a person would play D3 now for the first time, he would probably want to complete the campaign once. That's what the campaign is for and it's been like that in basically every game other than heavy rpg's like Baldur's Gate for an example. Since D3 is more action oriented, it was just natural in my opinion, for them to steer off campaign and develop other game mods for the players to enjoy.
I don't fully disagree with you. I'm just noting that the D3 team had no qualms about making a buff to rifts that completely invalidated an entire game mode. If, knowing that, you aren't a BIT worried that they might do the same thing with ladders, then you have a bigger heart and better faith in Blizzard than I do. I just can't imagine that Josh, the guy who decided rifts were the best place to farm, is really aiming for any equity among the various modes of play anymore... and that is worrisome for me. It's demonstrative of a philosophy which I think could very well lead directly to non-ladder play turning into a wasteland because Big Brother Josh decided that ladder play is the only "right" way to play the game.
I'm not really sure people are afraid of not being around for the start of a season, honestly. I think people are afraid of some day, eight months from now, Josh deciding that ladders are the "right" way to play D3, making ladder seasons last 12 months at a time, and going back on ladder loot being rolled into standard. Just like how he instantly invalidated campaign mode by putting that 100% buff into rifts after-the-fact. Because, let's face it, the "rifts are the best place to farm" mentality didn't start until AFTER RoS had been out for a while. We never heard that line prior to RoS launch. So it really was a change in direction for us after things had gone live.
For me that continued re-defining of the purpose of the game AFTER features have been introduced (as opposed to making it clear to the community prior to an expansion/patch) is not only confusing, but makes the purpose of seasons ambiguous because precedent has been set that we don't really know what we're getting until after we live-test it and then Josh makes his decisions on it.
I'm already past being worried. As i said in my erlier post's tldr, we are screwed. And what i mean by that is pretty much worded by you in your first paragraph.
I agree that we might see drastic changes that were previously unanounced because that has been the case with D3's development so far anyway. But everything to a reasonable extent, in a way that secures their profit which is basically people buying the game and playing it. I don't think they will make seasons last 12 months for an example because that goes against the whole idea behind seasons or ladder resets. The idea is that people will come back and play everytime and possibly bring their friends along with them.
It's just another kind of a content patch of some sort, everytime we have one of those there are insane activity spikes on a monthly scale. Seasons will just be another filler in between. Maybe that's a good thing because it can give players something to do inbetween major content patches. But maybe it's bad because they will invest more time into developing seasons instead of fixing the game (as it is right now with its many flaws yet numerous addictive qualities) and adding some of the awesome ideas that mainly come from the community somehow.
tldr: sit down and enjoy the show
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
From my perspective, I think that having the items fall into the general pool at the end of the season is a great compromise. I've been spending 95% of my time on my wizard since RoS came out. I'm certain that I will still not have all of my classes geared to my desired levels by the time the first season ends. Having the items in the drop pool at the end of the season would allow me to focus my efforts on the way I want to play, rather than switching to ladders.
I don't begrudge those that want to go for it, great, go for it.
And I see that this WILL generate new items at something resembling a regular pace, sorta I guess.
If I see the need or want to roll a new character, this IS where I woudl do it, And I might, I have 2 or everything and there are some that I will decide to get rid of. So, While I'm not really the competitive soul some are, I can see it's uses, even from my casual point of view.
WD Season 8 https://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/Kildare/84509816
Monk season 7 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/MojoJoJo/42225505
DH season 6 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/DeadShot/75655606
Angry Chicken http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/WhoDoVooDoo/68187610
What? Me worry?
Fuck people who don't have tons of time, give ME what I want regardless of what they want.
You couldn't be a bigger hypocrite.
I agree.... depending on the length of the season.
If we end up with 6-month-long seasons most people aren't going to wait around that long to get a taste of the new items. In order for the "becomes available to everyone" bit to be functional, I would think the seasons would have to be about 2 months long, 3 at the most.
2 months seems mostly reasonable for the 10hr/day crowd to get T6-capable characters, find new items before the rest of us, etc. It also seems short enough that the people who choose not to do seasons aren't completely left in the dust.
I think for most people who aren't into ladders the thought that they might have to wait for the end of a six-month ladder season is what gets them feeling "forced" to play ladders. If we only had to wait a month for the items to be introduced.... well that wouldn't be too bad of a compromise really.
I would open up quite a few different Ladder Realms and have one starting up maybe once a month. A ladder could be open for 1 month to maybe a full year. The short ones will be more of races. The long ones will be more about getting Paragons and or collecting all the special loot and legendaries.
I would have seasons that only focused on only using crafted gear. That means you have to make the gear and the only drops and things to purchase would be crafting components.
I would call the Ladder Realms Tournaments and they should be named after the theme of the tournament.
I would even up some designs of the Tournament to the puplic
1) The "season" only legendaries are being placed into the drop pools at some point that hasn't been clarified (unless already stated at the end of the season?).
2) By playing in the ladders you are actually putting yourself behind the softcore&hardcore realms. The only people that won't be affected by this are the people already t5/6 geared out and are looking for those perfect rolls.
3) Is there even any reward to playing the ladders right now? As it looks currently it is simply for the competitive people that have been asking for a ladder system for a long time now.
*edit* 3b) And I have seen nothing that states your characters+items will transfer to softcore/hardcore realms at the end of the season. If anything end of seasons wipe the characters so.... that = what kind of progress gain over the softcore&hardcore realms?
4) I would agree with another poster commenting on some kind of cosmetic rewards i.e. paragon portraits, auras/glows, feat of strength achievements. And guess what, these again have 0, ZERO, impact on the sofcore&hardcore realms.
Unless I have missed something about seasons giving people a leg (seriously no pun intended) up over the softcore&hardcore realms, I haven't seen it.
As opposed to sitting there finding a pseudo personal drawback from a hypochondriac stand-point and cry about the immediate benefits favoring a different crowd and try to strip away at each addition bit by bit.
But I see what you're doing ..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning... pretty classic case.
Everything else I said debunked you though.
TLDR Any addition to Diablo is much needed and should be welcomed by all players to embrace in a positive mindset, find the positive in the "personal drawback", stop being a whining blizzard pitchfork QQer, it's getting old
I'm sorry but this is a fansite and we ALL want our opinions heard. If you can't come up with something other than "you want Blizzard to listen to what you want" then maybe you should go back to wherever you came from. As catalept so eloquently pointed out there ARE reasons to fear some of the mentality behind these decisions. Multiple Blizzard games thusfar have, indeed, had erratic season lengths (D2, SC2, and WoW are all very valid examples) and there IS a problem if seasons start to last 6-12 months when there are season-only items. I'm going to quote him because he put it very succinctly:
Of course I wouldn't expect someone who has their ears plugged to understand this kind of very simple logic. We've had pages of discussion about how Josh only partially delivered on "build-changing" legendaries and how it IS discouraging to non-ladder players when Wyatt says they have no intention of fixing the orange stat stick items because they'd just rather add new items. Ruksak has been quite vocal about it and I happen to agree with him completely.
Campaign mode is already a complete disaster that begs the question "why is this still in the game?" And that's EXACTLY what some of us fear is going to happen to non-ladder play. Why? Because Blizzard clearly was OK with completely obsoleting campaign mode in favor of adventure mode so why wouldn't they be OK with making non-ladder play completely obsolete? The precedent is right there, clear as crystal. You can't ignore it just because it's convenient.
When they say "season-only loot" that sounds a lot like "rifts have bonus chance to get legendaries" to me. It sounds like they're adding things at first blush. But in reality that buff to rifts, while making rifts better, also made campaign mode completely worthless. These changes don't exist in a bubble and only a naive person would actually believe that they're just "adding things." In reality they "added" adventure mode. And look how many people play campaign mode now.
It's not remotely irrational to believe they'll add ladders and because of HOW they do it (lack of care for personal preference) they'll make non-ladder obsolete. That's what some of us are concerned about. You can't debunk that no matter how hard you try.
The fact is that almost none of us will continously play D3 for years to come. Everyone takes a break at some point and when you come back you'd have a new / mid season waiting for you with some new items that might add a further incentive for you to play. We can't hold back the game's progress as a whole just because we are afraid that we might not be playing for a while when a season starts or something like that.
I am not saying that this is the absolute perfect direction the game could have gone to. In my opinion, the investment and development should go towards adding more content to rifts like more randomized maps, more mob combos, more bosses, more events like ubers / cursed chests inside rifts, etc... And then also adding different game modes like PVP / PVPE arenas and whatnot. But obviously this direction requires more money to develop and the return is not as direct as an automatic system that reboots itself every x months and all they need to do is just add a couple of "new" items... probably old items that were previously scratched off and are now being reintroduced.
TLDR: Basically we are screwed and we know it. But, i'm still going to play because there are certain things that i enjoy.
I'm not really sure people are afraid of not being around for the start of a season, honestly. I think people are afraid of some day, eight months from now, Josh deciding that ladders are the "right" way to play D3, making ladder seasons last 12 months at a time, and going back on ladder loot being rolled into standard. Just like how he instantly invalidated campaign mode by putting that 100% buff into rifts after-the-fact. Because, let's face it, the "rifts are the best place to farm" mentality didn't start until AFTER RoS had been out for a while. We never heard that line prior to RoS launch. So it really was a change in direction for us after things had gone live.
For me that continued re-defining of the purpose of the game AFTER features have been introduced (as opposed to making it clear to the community prior to an expansion/patch) is not only confusing, but makes the purpose of seasons ambiguous because precedent has been set that we don't really know what we're getting until after we live-test it and then Josh makes his decisions on it.
I agree that we might see drastic changes that were previously unanounced because that has been the case with D3's development so far anyway. But everything to a reasonable extent, in a way that secures their profit which is basically people buying the game and playing it. I don't think they will make seasons last 12 months for an example because that goes against the whole idea behind seasons or ladder resets. The idea is that people will come back and play everytime and possibly bring their friends along with them.
It's just another kind of a content patch of some sort, everytime we have one of those there are insane activity spikes on a monthly scale. Seasons will just be another filler in between. Maybe that's a good thing because it can give players something to do inbetween major content patches. But maybe it's bad because they will invest more time into developing seasons instead of fixing the game (as it is right now with its many flaws yet numerous addictive qualities) and adding some of the awesome ideas that mainly come from the community somehow.
tldr: sit down and enjoy the show