Since I've been playing the game, I've come to notice something. I already have a level 60 wizard and I'm already in Inferno mode. I got to this point about ten days into the game and that was just from casual playing. I wasn't exactly trying to get to this point that fast, it just sort of happened. Now that I have come to notice it, It doesn't feel very rewarding. The game feels Easy, but don't get me wrong, Inferno is by no means a cakewalk; however, every other mode is and getting to level 60 surely wasn't a problem either. Here are a few problems that I have.
You Can't Control Your Stats
Stopped reading there. Want to change your stats? Find shit with sockets. Insert gems. Profit. Or go to the AH and buy gear with the stat allocations you desire.
D3 has WAY more control and customization that D2 did. D2 required you to roll a new character to make a change to ONE stat point. How is this good design?
The "flaws" you are identifying, are not flaws, are what make Diablo 3.. Diablo 3, and not Diablo 2. It's all subjective.
I suppose you do have a point there, but that doesn't change my opinion about them. I still find it to be a downgrade.
Thats your opinion then. There are many clips at blizzcon and such where they explain why they did things in a certain way and I have to agree that most changes are improvements. The online issues are annoying though, guess you cant have everything.
Well, a lot of their explanations consist of "because we didn't think it would work". Or because "we didn't want to make it an E-sport". I'm not exactly sure why that would be a big deal for people to really be into PvP, and if there is a problem with that then tell me. Most of the changes, while they work, are just not fun and make things easier. That is why I'm trying to say.
Since I've been playing the game, I've come to notice something. I already have a level 60 wizard and I'm already in Inferno mode. I got to this point about ten days into the game and that was just from casual playing. I wasn't exactly trying to get to this point that fast, it just sort of happened. Now that I have come to notice it, It doesn't feel very rewarding. The game feels Easy, but don't get me wrong, Inferno is by no means a cakewalk; however, every other mode is and getting to level 60 surely wasn't a problem either. Here are a few problems that I have.
You Can't Control Your Stats
Stopped reading there. Want to change your stats? Find shit with sockets. Insert gems. Profit. Or go to the AH and buy gear with the stat allocations you desire.
D3 has WAY more control and customization that D2 did. D2 required you to roll a new character to make a change to ONE stat point. How is this good design?
Now see, you should probably read the rest of my post before you jump to that response; I clearly explain my problem with gear being the only thing to customize with.
I think I have to call bs on the AH complaints. I'm in inferno with a barb, technically I haven't wiped my way all the way through act 1 yet, but have been on act 2 through a friends game, slow grinding there and dieing wave after wave to elites, but getting some good drops every few hours there at least.
I've been told I need XYZ stat numbers to move on. I look for these stats on the AH, I can not find a single piece with sufficient stats to make a dent past my 'found' gear unless I drop 200k to 500+k. Even then something to make a really solid improvement will probably cost around 1 mil per piece.
I'm right at the average power curve of the game IMHO. This means that the loot I'm pulling down is at the mid tier of the AH and I can't sell my drops at all. I price stuff out appropriately but its lost in a sea of 5000 other similar priced gears, and its just dumb luck if someone finds mine to buy, so I can't count on drops bringing in much of an income.
So really I just find some grind/farm technique, or I safe cash for a single gear piece that on its own, wont really do jack shit to help me move up. Either way, yes, the AH may have sped me through hell difficulty, but it really isn't pushing you along in inferno. Really it seems like the best bet is to die your way forward as far as you can in the plot until you can find a mob to grind/kill on and hope for a sell drop or a wearable drop.
But yeah, AH may speed you through Normal/NM/HELL on the cheap, but once you realize how shit the drops/cash is there vs inferno, there is no point in spending much time there at all.
OP is another typical D2 fanboy, who refuses to understand the mechanics of D3 and accept that D3 is not D2+. Your points have all been discussed a billion times before, but ill make a short run on them:
1: Your opinion (I like it better this way), reason behind change has already been explained.
2: In D2 you used 1 ability until lvl 18-24-30, and then you might start using 2 regularly (depending on class and build). In D3 you constantly change build, trying to find something that works with your skill level, your gear, your playstyle and your pace. Big + for D3.
3: Your opinion. I like that gear makes the char. It means that i can hunt for specific items to make specific character builds work.
4: The game has much more than Diablo 2.
5: They never said 60 = 99. They said 60 = 80, which isnt very far off from my experience (Depending on method of course, powerlevelling screws up any comparison). Furthermore, you say the only challenge is in inferno. Well newsflash, the only challenge in D2 was in hell (the last difficulty), and in D2 it wasn't really a challenge at all since all you had to do was follow guide X and you could get through hell with minimum effort. D2 was extremely EZ. So far D3 without skipping packs and using "exploits" is HARD.
6: Someone has to get the item and be willing to sell it for someone else to buy it. Exactly the same thing as in D2. Then you complain about drops, well random loot is random. Stop whining, and start making smart points instead if you want to make a discussion or prove a point.
7: Im a great gamer, i know a challenge when i see it, and i know what can make that challenge much easier (main is a wizard, i chose not to abuse skills to rush to act 4 inferno), you say that games are becoming way too easy, but really they aren't. Some are, but many aren't. Oh, and most games have difficulty modes now, which makes them fun for more people, and not just the good / great gamers.
You make good points, and I'm aware that many have already talked about these points. It's not my fault you chose to read/comment on them again. The point I made about leveling is that it's short. It doesn't feel rewarding past 30. Spells? Yea, you used one, but it wasn't hard to switch to another if you was fast enough. I use a lot of different skills in combination with each other in D2. As for gear, I still think it's boring. Your opinion is no better than mine on that one. And no, D3 doesn't have more content that D2. Even at release, I think D2 had more content. It was longer, had more in depth game play, and made more sense.
And yea, I suppose you make a good point about the difficulty in D2. I can't really argue with that one. However, it still had PvP to play with at release. Our endgame release is the game, round 4. Also, if you just decide to limit yourself on use of "exploits", then you are just ignoring things you can do with your character for no other reason than to have it harder. Difficulty shouldn't have to come from my own will (unless you were doing something like a challenge or what not).
Yea, people do have to get the items to sell it. But there are so many people playing that you'll still find just about any item you'll ever want. The only problem is if they decide that 20,000,000,000 is a reasonable price (And yea, I see that price the other day).
Gearing up isn't a chore. IT'S THE ENTIRE ESSENCE OF THE DIABLO FRANCHISE.
The series is : get gear to get more powerful to go find more gear by killing stuff to get more powerful to kill harder stuff and get more gear.
If you don't like dealing with gear, I'm not sure Diablo is the game for you.
I said it feels like a chore because of how stats work with gear. I hate having to get rid of gear that would normally be good if not for the fact that it lacked -20 Vitality or some shit. Shit is so random that I'm not even happy to find rares because I know there's a great chance that it will just suck. In D2, finding stuff like that was like "HOLY SHIT!", now when I see stuff like that drop, it's not even a good feeling. It's more like a "either I sell it in the AH, to a vendor or salvage it", like everything else I find.
I think I have to call bs on the AH complaints. I'm in inferno with a barb, technically I haven't wiped my way all the way through act 1 yet, but have been on act 2 through a friends game, slow grinding there and dieing wave after wave to elites, but getting some good drops every few hours there at least.
I've been told I need XYZ stat numbers to move on. I look for these stats on the AH, I can not find a single piece with sufficient stats to make a dent past my 'found' gear unless I drop 200k to 500+k. Even then something to make a really solid improvement will probably cost around 1 mil per piece.
I'm right at the average power curve of the game IMHO. This means that the loot I'm pulling down is at the mid tier of the AH and I can't sell my drops at all. I price stuff out appropriately but its lost in a sea of 5000 other similar priced gears, and its just dumb luck if someone finds mine to buy, so I can't count on drops bringing in much of an income.
So really I just find some grind/farm technique, or I safe cash for a single gear piece that on its own, wont really do jack shit to help me move up. Either way, yes, the AH may have sped me through hell difficulty, but it really isn't pushing you along in inferno. Really it seems like the best bet is to die your way forward as far as you can in the plot until you can find a mob to grind/kill on and hope for a sell drop or a wearable drop.
But yeah, AH may speed you through Normal/NM/HELL on the cheap, but once you realize how shit the drops/cash is there vs inferno, there is no point in spending much time there at all.
Well, there is still a chance you'll find stuff that is good outside the AH, but again, what are you really doing? You are getting better gear when you farm. Gear you can buy in the AH. The fact that the AH exist just works against the main part of the game. "BUY BETTER GEAR SO YOU CAN KILL STUFF FOR BETTER GEAR!" Does anybody see the irony in that?
Well, there is still a chance you'll find stuff that is good outside the AH, but again, what are you really doing? You are getting better gear when you farm. Gear you can buy in the AH. The fact that the AH exist just works against the main part of the game. "BUY BETTER GEAR SO YOU CAN KILL STUFF FOR BETTER GEAR!" Does anybody see the irony in that?
No.
In D2 you got gear, and traded it for what was useful.
In D3 you get gear, and sell it for gold OR salvage it for materials, then use those materials to buy/make better gear.
In D2, you get a drop. You either use it, keep it for later, vendor it, or if it is good (just not for you), you tried to trade it.
In D3, you get a drop. You either use it, keep it for later, vendor it, salvage it, or if it is good (just not for you), you sell it on the AH.
What's the difference exactly?
Well, obviously it has the same basic set up. The difference is that in D2, drops seemed to make more sense. In D3, I find bows with intelligence bonuses on them. I heard they were going to address the legendary issue though.
In D2, you get a drop. You either use it, keep it for later, vendor it, or if it is good (just not for you), you tried to trade it.
In D3, you get a drop. You either use it, keep it for later, vendor it, salvage it, or if it is good (just not for you), you sell it on the AH.
What's the difference exactly?
Well, obviously it has the same basic set up. The difference is that in D2, drops seemed to make more sense. In D3, I find bows with intelligence bonuses on them. I heard they were going to address the legendary issue though.
I saw spears with INT on them in D2. ALL the gear was random. Maybe it's more random in D3, but that's fine.
Legandaries are being addressed, but the problem is that people equate legendary to mean 'best' , and that's wrong.
Well, there is still a chance you'll find stuff that is good outside the AH, but again, what are you really doing? You are getting better gear when you farm. Gear you can buy in the AH. The fact that the AH exist just works against the main part of the game. "BUY BETTER GEAR SO YOU CAN KILL STUFF FOR BETTER GEAR!" Does anybody see the irony in that?
No.
In D2 you got gear, and traded it for what was useful.
In D3 you get gear, and sell it for gold OR salvage it for materials, then use those materials to buy/make better gear.
Again, what's the difference?
I dunno who you traded with in D2, but the only time anyone would ever give me anything good in a trade was if I forked over runes, not gear. Unless of course I was stupid and traded them gear far greater than their own, in which case they would happily hit the accept button.
In D2, you get a drop. You either use it, keep it for later, vendor it, or if it is good (just not for you), you tried to trade it.
In D3, you get a drop. You either use it, keep it for later, vendor it, salvage it, or if it is good (just not for you), you sell it on the AH.
What's the difference exactly?
Well, obviously it has the same basic set up. The difference is that in D2, drops seemed to make more sense. In D3, I find bows with intelligence bonuses on them. I heard they were going to address the legendary issue though.
I saw spears with INT on them in D2. ALL the gear was random. Maybe it's more random in D3, but that's fine.
Legandaries are being addressed, but the problem is that people equate legendary to mean 'best' , and that's wrong.
Of course they aren't the best, but they should at least be viable for how hard they are to find.That is the main argument. And hey, I'd use a spear in D2 if it was good enough with my Sorc, but probably not a bow.
I disagree. I found some of my best items through boss runs, rarely through trade. The only time I started to just trade is when the dreaded body popper took all my stuff when I joined the game and I was too frustrated to go through that process again. Now, people did find nice stuff through trades, but it's so much easier now. In fact it's so easy that it's why many of us are already at inferno. If I hadn't used the AH, I'd still have a terrible weapon and armor, and I'd have a lot more difficulty playing through hell.
Look your argument about the ease of the game essentially boils down to you used the AH to get good items.
The game is just as hard or harder than D2 even on nightmare if you only had to rely on just finding better drops yourself. They have given you an option, you don't have to use it, or you can choose to use it sparingly. It is your choice. If your D2 character was fulled decked out as well, the game would be just as easy.
They have chosen to allow more people access to higher levels of the game using the AH. Why is that bad? For the really hard core, you have a choice and can also choose to play hardcore mode. And Inferno is by no means a cakewalk even with great gear.
I simply don't understand people complaining about the game being too easy because of the AH. Not having the AH in D3 would have been a HUGE HUGE HUGE mistake. Say what you will, but there would be a huge outcry for Blizzard to implement an AH and it would be in the game several months later anyway. This is 2012, a game like diablo 3 not having an AH would be ridiculous. The RMAH is a still a bone of contention to many but the Gold AH to my mind a required feature. No one in 2012 wants to look up forum posts just to look for a trade, and if you do want that, then you're stuck in a time warp.
So the only other option is to tune the game for people using the AH? Meaning if you choose not to play the AH game you would literally be unable to progress. So please tell me the options you're thinking about.
Times change, Games evolve, gamers expectations change. If diablo 2 had been released with an AH, it would have faced the same growing pains that D3 is facing now.
Well, there is still a chance you'll find stuff that is good outside the AH, but again, what are you really doing? You are getting better gear when you farm. Gear you can buy in the AH. The fact that the AH exist just works against the main part of the game. "BUY BETTER GEAR SO YOU CAN KILL STUFF FOR BETTER GEAR!" Does anybody see the irony in that?
No.
In D2 you got gear, and traded it for what was useful.
In D3 you get gear, and sell it for gold OR salvage it for materials, then use those materials to buy/make better gear.
Again, what's the difference?
I dunno who you traded with in D2, but the only time anyone would ever give me anything good in a trade was if I forked over runes, not gear. Unless of course I was stupid and traded them gear far greater than their own, in which case they would happily hit the accept button.
I played mostly when SoJ was the default trading currency, before runes took over.
Stats
There's not much difference to me. You get mostly your primary and secondary attribute with 2 points split among the other stats. You get 7 points. In D2 you got 5 points. If you went 3 primary, 2 secondary, that's 5. Now they gave you two free points for your other stats. There was, I suppose a bit of a challenge of getting the minimum number of stat points placed to be able to equip the gear you want, but that was tedious and if an item was addded later in the game, you potentially had to reroll a character just to equip it.
Skills
I can't help but disagree entirely about this. Skills are both more flexible and more numerous in general than D2. In D2, you spent all your skill points buffing up 1-2 main skills. You very likely never even used your other skills. Even if we discounted the entire Skill Rune system (which we can't, because it exists), you would still always be choosing from 20 some skills to use 6 at any given time...plus 3 passives out of a dozen or so. I will say this, there are a couple skills for each class that seem a bit more OP, but by and far every time I see someone post, "let's just agree this is the optimal spec" someone else comes in and says, "but I'm doing even better with this spec, and it's actually nothing like yours."
Gear
I hear what you're saying on this, especially about the skill enhancing affixes. I'd like to see them do something with Legendary items or Set Items that could potentially make skills even more crazy. Maybe make it so an unsustainable channel becomes entirely sustainable because of stacking these affixes. They've already stated they want to add more affixes, though, so, I'll just wait and see.
Game Has Less?
Well, I guess if you compare it to D2:LoD maybe. But Comparing a game to another Game Plus an Expansion is silly. D2 had a lot less than D2:LoD too...I also don't think adding Charms, even with a fancy interface, would do much for you, at least the way you're mentioning. They'd just be another form of stacking stats, which you said before is something you dislike about gear as it is. Further, if they added charms, they would balance the game around charms existing. You wouldn't suddenly find yourself saying, "I can hold on to this sub-optimal piece of gear because I have charms, too." You would just find yourself saying, "Man, now I need ot ditch sub-optimal pieces of gear AND sub-optimal charms. I hate charms!"
Inferno is Bad Because It's the 4th Playthrough?
How many times did you play through D2 to hit 99, out of curiosity. I didn't realize it could be done in 3 single play through attempts. I must have been doing it wrong. Sorry for the attitude here but...D2 was also extremely repetitive. At least this time around I don't have to level a new toon and replay the same game every time I want to try out a new skill.
The AH
I was mad at the AH while I was leveling. Then I realized it wasn't really a big deal. It's just a more efficient form of trading items. Even with gold as the currency, that's only half true, especially while leveling. If I paid 5k gold for a weapon, I sold it for 5k gold again later when I was done. Gold is the currency, but really, you're just trading gear around with a less RNG basis. No more runes and gems as currency. Instead we have something that's a bit more static. At the same time, getting an item that's worth 2mil means you sell it for 2mil and then RNG helped make you that much more rich. So RNG still helps you build wealth.
While I was leveling, I farmed Rings and Amulets from shops. I recreated games quite a bit to generate the rings I needed. With that I went to 60 with blue rings/amulets. Every new game was like killing a mob that dropped 4 blue rings/amulets.
Every Game is Like This
It may surprise you to hear that I think you're completely backwards on this, too. I think gamers today are vastly more skilled than they were 10-15 years ago. It's the same thing that happened in WoW. They kept adding more complex mechanics to the game, and players complained they were dumbing the game down. WoW didn't just get easier, the player base got better...A LOT better. Look at the mechanics of vanilla raiding, and until AQ40 and Naxx, there wasn't really anything all that complex about the game at all. But players got good.
I think you're seeing the same thing here. When you first played D2, you didn't know as much about Diablo games. By the time D3 came out, you'd admittedly done a boatload of research and had all that experience from D2, that really does translate to D3. You are so also probably fairly unaware of how much all of that helped you. If you went back and played D2 right now, you'd probably find that the game went rather quickly.
I disagree. I found some of my best items through boss runs, rarely through trade. The only time I started to just trade is when the dreaded body popper took all my stuff when I joined the game and I was too frustrated to go through that process again. Now, people did find nice stuff through trades, but it's so much easier now. In fact it's so easy that it's why many of us are already at inferno. If I hadn't used the AH, I'd still have a terrible weapon and armor, and I'd have a lot more difficulty playing through hell.
Look your argument about the ease of the game essentially boils down to you used the AH to get good items.
The game is just as hard or harder than D2 even on nightmare if you only had to rely on just finding better drops yourself. They have given you an option, you don't have to use it, or you can choose to use it sparingly. It is your choice. If your D2 character was fulled decked out as well, the game would be just as easy.
They have chosen to allow more people access to higher levels of the game using the AH. Why is that bad? For the really hard core, you have a choice and can also choose to play hardcore mode. And Inferno is by no means a cakewalk even with great gear.
I simply don't understand people complaining about the game being too easy because of the AH. Not having the AH in D3 would have been a HUGE HUGE HUGE mistake. Say what you will, but there would be a huge outcry for Blizzard to implement an AH and it would be in the game several months later anyway. This is 2012, a game like diablo 3 not having an AH would be ridiculous. The RMAH is a still a bone of contention to many but the Gold AH to my mind a required feature. No one in 2012 wants to look up forum posts just to look for a trade, and if you do want that, then you're stuck in a time warp.
So the only other option is to tune the game for people using the AH? Meaning if you choose not to play the AH game you would literally be unable to progress. So please tell me the options you're thinking about.
Times change, Games evolve, gamers expectations change. If diablo 2 had been released with an AH, it would have faced the same growing pains that D3 is facing now.
I feel like this a lot. People use the AH to buy the best gear, and then find it is easy, and so they complain about the AH ruining the game, and that it's easy. First, you don't have to use the AH, second, it's so easy to die in Nightmare and Hell if you just use what drops. Even more so if you play co-op games.
As to the OP - I still don't get the argument against the way the skills work. I mean, for one, how often did you use more than one skill at a time in D2? The most I ever used was when I played a summancer with curses, and then I'd use, like 6? two or three summons, two curses, and maybe an attack spell. On the Sorc, I never used more than one at a time (okay, two if I bothered using lightning and had thunderstorm up). In D3 EVERYONE uses all 6 skills constantly, and you rarely find someone using the exact same skill set as you. Appearently Blizzard's numbers are showing that the most popular build is around 1% of the players, everyone else uses differences.
About the runes not feeling like new skills? Well, it depends on the skill. And just like in D2, most of the new skills I don't care about, as I'm looking forward to a few I think look cool/work with how I want. And I'd say about a 1/3 of the runes change the skill enough that it is a different skill, at least in my opinion.
As to length - Act 4 is just as long as Act 4 in D2, which was also half an act. The difference is they didn't bother making an underpopulated town for it, which really doesn't bother me. The rest of the game feels roughly the same in length, except instead of having to run through 5 different areas just to get one quest done (Oh man, the start of Act 3 in D2 suuuuucked), they've paced it a bit better, and you're in most areas for something in that area.
As to PvP, I'm glad they waited, and I'm glad they aren't going to have the same hostility system. I'm glad they waited because there was already too much crap going around about them delaying the game. When they delayed it from late 2011 to early 2012, the response was just...insane. A lot of people where just saying "oh, they should just release what they have" while others where saying Blizzard somehow was betraying us. It wasn't nice. To delay anymore for what is, honestly, an after thought of the serious would have been stupid.
I also never liked charms. It was just another piece of gear you had to have the best of, and I don't think it would have added much. That's just my uneducated opinion though, because I don't work there and never got to use the system they had in place.
The point spending in D2 was very limited, it was only used to gear your character. Str and Dex were pumped for the highest gear, and the rest went into Vit, it was stupidly simplistic. Now D3 is very much the same, the difference is, you now use gems instead of points. You improve gems with money, and from there you corresponding gem into your gear.
I sort of like the D3 system more. This is an item game, first and foremost, and building your character through gear feels natural.
Skills Are Severely Lacking
I had a conversation with my friends a few days ago about this very topic. Ours were a lot different though, since we said we can't understand why people think this system is dumbed down. The amount of options that open up with levels are staggering. I constantly try new things, whether it be a few rune switches, or entire new skill layouts. There's a lot going on under the hood, and I don't think you really see the intricacy thereof.
Like your blizzard example. While the reduced cost rune means you can spam it a lot, the area rune means you can deal with wide packs a bit better. The difference also means that with the 20 cost rune you can adapt to a situation a bit better, because when packs spread or when adds join the battle, you have that extra bit to throw down an extra blizzard, while the larger cost just works better in larger battles.
Gear is The Only Customization, and it isn't Fun.
I've had many situations where I had to way survivability against damage output, or resource management against the aforementioned options. The gear has some fun complexity, I will give them that. The only gripe I have personally is how heavy your prime attribute (i.e. Int for WD and wizard) outweighs a lot of other stats. I'd really like it if the difference is brought a bit more inline with one another.
However, gear played just as big a role in D2, and so far I find the item game a lot in line with its predecessor.
The Game Has Much Less Than Diablo 2
What a lot of people don't understand is, this game still needs to grow, just like D2 grew through its expansion and patches. While you can argue that this game needs to have the complexity of LoD, that point is nonsensical. D2 didn't have crafting, or an open skills system with rune effects, and it's economy was crap and D3 needed to build its economy from the ground up. This is a new game where a lot has changed. This game needs to learn from its own mistakes, not just from D2's. Charms wil make a comeback, so will the mystic. The game will grow and improve, and people need to open their eyes and see that.
Challenge? Only If You Care Enough to Try It
Normal is easy mode, Nightmare is fun mode, Hell is hard mode, and Inferno is very challenging.
This description is very apt. I just found Hell a bit too easy. And Inferno is good as it is, its supposed to be a long drawn out challenge, the end game. Blizzard never said it will take the same amount of time to get to 60 as it were to get to 99. They said it will take the same amount of time to finish Hell as it took to do the same in D2. What they did say is they didn't like 99, it's a pointless "endgame" challenge, so they created Inferno. Blizzard will obviously add levels with each expansion, it only makes sense to extend progressions through the new acts. Or else the you'll reach level 60 by the end of Nightmare.
Moaning about the fact that you need to play through the game again with new difficulties makes little sense though, or did you find a way around this in previous Diablo games?
The Auction House is Everything
The Ah actually feels very much a part of the natural progression. You need gold, a lot thereof, to buy good items to progress late game. To get gold you need to play and farm, either by picking up gold or putting up good items on the AH. As for the shops, the only purpose they serve are when the drops haven't been kind to you, especially during Nightmare when the boss drops are bad. In fact, they serve pretty much the same purpose as they did in D2, although in that game gold was worthless, so they have more use now than it did back then. These sort of games are built around trading, and the AH is supposed to fill that niche. If you don't like it, then don't use it, its not hampering your gameplay experience in any way. It's there for people who want to trade, just like crafting is there for people who want a different option if they want to improve their gear.
Your points on this seem odd, to be truthful. You have odd gripes, mostly that you don't get the functionality of the AH and that you don't like shops... Quite honestly, I don't think you really get this game.
Every Game is Turning Out Like This
And thank the gods for that. If we were playing a new sort of side scroller Mario on the Nintendo 5000, then I'd probably not be playing games anymore. Lamenting the fact that we are moving into the future, and trying new things is no good reason for disliking a game.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Stopped reading there. Want to change your stats? Find shit with sockets. Insert gems. Profit. Or go to the AH and buy gear with the stat allocations you desire.
D3 has WAY more control and customization that D2 did. D2 required you to roll a new character to make a change to ONE stat point. How is this good design?
Well, a lot of their explanations consist of "because we didn't think it would work". Or because "we didn't want to make it an E-sport". I'm not exactly sure why that would be a big deal for people to really be into PvP, and if there is a problem with that then tell me. Most of the changes, while they work, are just not fun and make things easier. That is why I'm trying to say.
Now see, you should probably read the rest of my post before you jump to that response; I clearly explain my problem with gear being the only thing to customize with.
I've been told I need XYZ stat numbers to move on. I look for these stats on the AH, I can not find a single piece with sufficient stats to make a dent past my 'found' gear unless I drop 200k to 500+k. Even then something to make a really solid improvement will probably cost around 1 mil per piece.
I'm right at the average power curve of the game IMHO. This means that the loot I'm pulling down is at the mid tier of the AH and I can't sell my drops at all. I price stuff out appropriately but its lost in a sea of 5000 other similar priced gears, and its just dumb luck if someone finds mine to buy, so I can't count on drops bringing in much of an income.
So really I just find some grind/farm technique, or I safe cash for a single gear piece that on its own, wont really do jack shit to help me move up. Either way, yes, the AH may have sped me through hell difficulty, but it really isn't pushing you along in inferno. Really it seems like the best bet is to die your way forward as far as you can in the plot until you can find a mob to grind/kill on and hope for a sell drop or a wearable drop.
But yeah, AH may speed you through Normal/NM/HELL on the cheap, but once you realize how shit the drops/cash is there vs inferno, there is no point in spending much time there at all.
Gearing up isn't a chore. IT'S THE ENTIRE ESSENCE OF THE DIABLO FRANCHISE.
The series is : get gear to get more powerful to go find more gear by killing stuff to get more powerful to kill harder stuff and get more gear.
If you don't like dealing with gear, I'm not sure Diablo is the game for you.
You make good points, and I'm aware that many have already talked about these points. It's not my fault you chose to read/comment on them again. The point I made about leveling is that it's short. It doesn't feel rewarding past 30. Spells? Yea, you used one, but it wasn't hard to switch to another if you was fast enough. I use a lot of different skills in combination with each other in D2. As for gear, I still think it's boring. Your opinion is no better than mine on that one. And no, D3 doesn't have more content that D2. Even at release, I think D2 had more content. It was longer, had more in depth game play, and made more sense.
And yea, I suppose you make a good point about the difficulty in D2. I can't really argue with that one. However, it still had PvP to play with at release. Our endgame release is the game, round 4. Also, if you just decide to limit yourself on use of "exploits", then you are just ignoring things you can do with your character for no other reason than to have it harder. Difficulty shouldn't have to come from my own will (unless you were doing something like a challenge or what not).
Yea, people do have to get the items to sell it. But there are so many people playing that you'll still find just about any item you'll ever want. The only problem is if they decide that 20,000,000,000 is a reasonable price (And yea, I see that price the other day).
I said it feels like a chore because of how stats work with gear. I hate having to get rid of gear that would normally be good if not for the fact that it lacked -20 Vitality or some shit. Shit is so random that I'm not even happy to find rares because I know there's a great chance that it will just suck. In D2, finding stuff like that was like "HOLY SHIT!", now when I see stuff like that drop, it's not even a good feeling. It's more like a "either I sell it in the AH, to a vendor or salvage it", like everything else I find.
Well, there is still a chance you'll find stuff that is good outside the AH, but again, what are you really doing? You are getting better gear when you farm. Gear you can buy in the AH. The fact that the AH exist just works against the main part of the game. "BUY BETTER GEAR SO YOU CAN KILL STUFF FOR BETTER GEAR!" Does anybody see the irony in that?
In D3, you get a drop. You either use it, keep it for later, vendor it, salvage it, or if it is good (just not for you), you sell it on the AH.
What's the difference exactly?
No.
In D2 you got gear, and traded it for what was useful.
In D3 you get gear, and sell it for gold OR salvage it for materials, then use those materials to buy/make better gear.
Again, what's the difference?
Well, obviously it has the same basic set up. The difference is that in D2, drops seemed to make more sense. In D3, I find bows with intelligence bonuses on them. I heard they were going to address the legendary issue though.
I saw spears with INT on them in D2. ALL the gear was random. Maybe it's more random in D3, but that's fine.
Legandaries are being addressed, but the problem is that people equate legendary to mean 'best' , and that's wrong.
I dunno who you traded with in D2, but the only time anyone would ever give me anything good in a trade was if I forked over runes, not gear. Unless of course I was stupid and traded them gear far greater than their own, in which case they would happily hit the accept button.
Of course they aren't the best, but they should at least be viable for how hard they are to find.That is the main argument. And hey, I'd use a spear in D2 if it was good enough with my Sorc, but probably not a bow.
The game is just as hard or harder than D2 even on nightmare if you only had to rely on just finding better drops yourself. They have given you an option, you don't have to use it, or you can choose to use it sparingly. It is your choice. If your D2 character was fulled decked out as well, the game would be just as easy.
They have chosen to allow more people access to higher levels of the game using the AH. Why is that bad? For the really hard core, you have a choice and can also choose to play hardcore mode. And Inferno is by no means a cakewalk even with great gear.
I simply don't understand people complaining about the game being too easy because of the AH. Not having the AH in D3 would have been a HUGE HUGE HUGE mistake. Say what you will, but there would be a huge outcry for Blizzard to implement an AH and it would be in the game several months later anyway. This is 2012, a game like diablo 3 not having an AH would be ridiculous. The RMAH is a still a bone of contention to many but the Gold AH to my mind a required feature. No one in 2012 wants to look up forum posts just to look for a trade, and if you do want that, then you're stuck in a time warp.
So the only other option is to tune the game for people using the AH? Meaning if you choose not to play the AH game you would literally be unable to progress. So please tell me the options you're thinking about.
Times change, Games evolve, gamers expectations change. If diablo 2 had been released with an AH, it would have faced the same growing pains that D3 is facing now.
I played mostly when SoJ was the default trading currency, before runes took over.
There's not much difference to me. You get mostly your primary and secondary attribute with 2 points split among the other stats. You get 7 points. In D2 you got 5 points. If you went 3 primary, 2 secondary, that's 5. Now they gave you two free points for your other stats. There was, I suppose a bit of a challenge of getting the minimum number of stat points placed to be able to equip the gear you want, but that was tedious and if an item was addded later in the game, you potentially had to reroll a character just to equip it.
Skills
I can't help but disagree entirely about this. Skills are both more flexible and more numerous in general than D2. In D2, you spent all your skill points buffing up 1-2 main skills. You very likely never even used your other skills. Even if we discounted the entire Skill Rune system (which we can't, because it exists), you would still always be choosing from 20 some skills to use 6 at any given time...plus 3 passives out of a dozen or so. I will say this, there are a couple skills for each class that seem a bit more OP, but by and far every time I see someone post, "let's just agree this is the optimal spec" someone else comes in and says, "but I'm doing even better with this spec, and it's actually nothing like yours."
Gear
I hear what you're saying on this, especially about the skill enhancing affixes. I'd like to see them do something with Legendary items or Set Items that could potentially make skills even more crazy. Maybe make it so an unsustainable channel becomes entirely sustainable because of stacking these affixes. They've already stated they want to add more affixes, though, so, I'll just wait and see.
Game Has Less?
Well, I guess if you compare it to D2:LoD maybe. But Comparing a game to another Game Plus an Expansion is silly. D2 had a lot less than D2:LoD too...I also don't think adding Charms, even with a fancy interface, would do much for you, at least the way you're mentioning. They'd just be another form of stacking stats, which you said before is something you dislike about gear as it is. Further, if they added charms, they would balance the game around charms existing. You wouldn't suddenly find yourself saying, "I can hold on to this sub-optimal piece of gear because I have charms, too." You would just find yourself saying, "Man, now I need ot ditch sub-optimal pieces of gear AND sub-optimal charms. I hate charms!"
Inferno is Bad Because It's the 4th Playthrough?
How many times did you play through D2 to hit 99, out of curiosity. I didn't realize it could be done in 3 single play through attempts. I must have been doing it wrong. Sorry for the attitude here but...D2 was also extremely repetitive. At least this time around I don't have to level a new toon and replay the same game every time I want to try out a new skill.
The AH
I was mad at the AH while I was leveling. Then I realized it wasn't really a big deal. It's just a more efficient form of trading items. Even with gold as the currency, that's only half true, especially while leveling. If I paid 5k gold for a weapon, I sold it for 5k gold again later when I was done. Gold is the currency, but really, you're just trading gear around with a less RNG basis. No more runes and gems as currency. Instead we have something that's a bit more static. At the same time, getting an item that's worth 2mil means you sell it for 2mil and then RNG helped make you that much more rich. So RNG still helps you build wealth.
While I was leveling, I farmed Rings and Amulets from shops. I recreated games quite a bit to generate the rings I needed. With that I went to 60 with blue rings/amulets. Every new game was like killing a mob that dropped 4 blue rings/amulets.
Every Game is Like This
It may surprise you to hear that I think you're completely backwards on this, too. I think gamers today are vastly more skilled than they were 10-15 years ago. It's the same thing that happened in WoW. They kept adding more complex mechanics to the game, and players complained they were dumbing the game down. WoW didn't just get easier, the player base got better...A LOT better. Look at the mechanics of vanilla raiding, and until AQ40 and Naxx, there wasn't really anything all that complex about the game at all. But players got good.
I think you're seeing the same thing here. When you first played D2, you didn't know as much about Diablo games. By the time D3 came out, you'd admittedly done a boatload of research and had all that experience from D2, that really does translate to D3. You are so also probably fairly unaware of how much all of that helped you. If you went back and played D2 right now, you'd probably find that the game went rather quickly.
I feel like this a lot. People use the AH to buy the best gear, and then find it is easy, and so they complain about the AH ruining the game, and that it's easy. First, you don't have to use the AH, second, it's so easy to die in Nightmare and Hell if you just use what drops. Even more so if you play co-op games.
As to the OP - I still don't get the argument against the way the skills work. I mean, for one, how often did you use more than one skill at a time in D2? The most I ever used was when I played a summancer with curses, and then I'd use, like 6? two or three summons, two curses, and maybe an attack spell. On the Sorc, I never used more than one at a time (okay, two if I bothered using lightning and had thunderstorm up). In D3 EVERYONE uses all 6 skills constantly, and you rarely find someone using the exact same skill set as you. Appearently Blizzard's numbers are showing that the most popular build is around 1% of the players, everyone else uses differences.
About the runes not feeling like new skills? Well, it depends on the skill. And just like in D2, most of the new skills I don't care about, as I'm looking forward to a few I think look cool/work with how I want. And I'd say about a 1/3 of the runes change the skill enough that it is a different skill, at least in my opinion.
As to length - Act 4 is just as long as Act 4 in D2, which was also half an act. The difference is they didn't bother making an underpopulated town for it, which really doesn't bother me. The rest of the game feels roughly the same in length, except instead of having to run through 5 different areas just to get one quest done (Oh man, the start of Act 3 in D2 suuuuucked), they've paced it a bit better, and you're in most areas for something in that area.
As to PvP, I'm glad they waited, and I'm glad they aren't going to have the same hostility system. I'm glad they waited because there was already too much crap going around about them delaying the game. When they delayed it from late 2011 to early 2012, the response was just...insane. A lot of people where just saying "oh, they should just release what they have" while others where saying Blizzard somehow was betraying us. It wasn't nice. To delay anymore for what is, honestly, an after thought of the serious would have been stupid.
I also never liked charms. It was just another piece of gear you had to have the best of, and I don't think it would have added much. That's just my uneducated opinion though, because I don't work there and never got to use the system they had in place.
The point spending in D2 was very limited, it was only used to gear your character. Str and Dex were pumped for the highest gear, and the rest went into Vit, it was stupidly simplistic. Now D3 is very much the same, the difference is, you now use gems instead of points. You improve gems with money, and from there you corresponding gem into your gear.
I sort of like the D3 system more. This is an item game, first and foremost, and building your character through gear feels natural.
Skills Are Severely Lacking
I had a conversation with my friends a few days ago about this very topic. Ours were a lot different though, since we said we can't understand why people think this system is dumbed down. The amount of options that open up with levels are staggering. I constantly try new things, whether it be a few rune switches, or entire new skill layouts. There's a lot going on under the hood, and I don't think you really see the intricacy thereof.
Like your blizzard example. While the reduced cost rune means you can spam it a lot, the area rune means you can deal with wide packs a bit better. The difference also means that with the 20 cost rune you can adapt to a situation a bit better, because when packs spread or when adds join the battle, you have that extra bit to throw down an extra blizzard, while the larger cost just works better in larger battles.
Gear is The Only Customization, and it isn't Fun.
I've had many situations where I had to way survivability against damage output, or resource management against the aforementioned options. The gear has some fun complexity, I will give them that. The only gripe I have personally is how heavy your prime attribute (i.e. Int for WD and wizard) outweighs a lot of other stats. I'd really like it if the difference is brought a bit more inline with one another.
However, gear played just as big a role in D2, and so far I find the item game a lot in line with its predecessor.
The Game Has Much Less Than Diablo 2
What a lot of people don't understand is, this game still needs to grow, just like D2 grew through its expansion and patches. While you can argue that this game needs to have the complexity of LoD, that point is nonsensical. D2 didn't have crafting, or an open skills system with rune effects, and it's economy was crap and D3 needed to build its economy from the ground up. This is a new game where a lot has changed. This game needs to learn from its own mistakes, not just from D2's. Charms wil make a comeback, so will the mystic. The game will grow and improve, and people need to open their eyes and see that.
Challenge? Only If You Care Enough to Try It
Normal is easy mode, Nightmare is fun mode, Hell is hard mode, and Inferno is very challenging.
This description is very apt. I just found Hell a bit too easy. And Inferno is good as it is, its supposed to be a long drawn out challenge, the end game. Blizzard never said it will take the same amount of time to get to 60 as it were to get to 99. They said it will take the same amount of time to finish Hell as it took to do the same in D2. What they did say is they didn't like 99, it's a pointless "endgame" challenge, so they created Inferno. Blizzard will obviously add levels with each expansion, it only makes sense to extend progressions through the new acts. Or else the you'll reach level 60 by the end of Nightmare.
Moaning about the fact that you need to play through the game again with new difficulties makes little sense though, or did you find a way around this in previous Diablo games?
The Auction House is Everything
The Ah actually feels very much a part of the natural progression. You need gold, a lot thereof, to buy good items to progress late game. To get gold you need to play and farm, either by picking up gold or putting up good items on the AH. As for the shops, the only purpose they serve are when the drops haven't been kind to you, especially during Nightmare when the boss drops are bad. In fact, they serve pretty much the same purpose as they did in D2, although in that game gold was worthless, so they have more use now than it did back then. These sort of games are built around trading, and the AH is supposed to fill that niche. If you don't like it, then don't use it, its not hampering your gameplay experience in any way. It's there for people who want to trade, just like crafting is there for people who want a different option if they want to improve their gear.
Your points on this seem odd, to be truthful. You have odd gripes, mostly that you don't get the functionality of the AH and that you don't like shops... Quite honestly, I don't think you really get this game.
Every Game is Turning Out Like This
And thank the gods for that. If we were playing a new sort of side scroller Mario on the Nintendo 5000, then I'd probably not be playing games anymore. Lamenting the fact that we are moving into the future, and trying new things is no good reason for disliking a game.