Well, switching WW to fire would have negated my +physical skill from my Reapers Wraps, so that becomes a wash doesnt it?
Keep in mind what that was about: Testing the difference between two setups - double SG or SG+any other ring. What other gear you wear is completely irrelevant. Also, those tests are more reliable when they last longer, so usually I do them without weapon or gimp my DPS otherwise. As I said, you can almost do it naked with only the rings if you equip Mara's since most of Ghom's damage is poison.
I do have a complete set of Endless Walk, but I thought the rolls on them were kind of garbage. I guess Hellfire isnt justified anymore if thats the top choice?
Basically, ALL BARB BUILDS use the same setup: Hellfire Amulet + Focus/Restraint. In cube you have a bit of variance (CoE for damage, Unity/Band of Might for defense) but neither Skull Grasp, nor Stone of Jordan or the Endless Walk set play a role for barbs. However, this thread is about finding out if double Skull Grasp has some value, and all I want to do is point out how you can properly test the "alternatives". Focus+Restraint isn't really an option to test though as it means removing both rings (and it will be the best choice in the end, I'm sure about that). That's why I mention other rings such as CoE, SoJ, and so on.
Hope that clarifies a few things ;-)
I like testing things, especially unusual things, and I like that you defend your theory. It usually take forever to chance established gearing/skill choices and it's so easy to dismiss alternatives. However, it's really important to test properly and not fool yourself. Note that after all testing you feel that your double SG combination is better, then by all means use it! In the end, this game is about fun, and you should use what *you* think it's best. However, I'm not convinced yet by what you wrote here that the legacy SG is *not* broken. :-)
Well of course your damage goes up if you have a Skull Grasp with pretty good stats compared to a crappy useless SoJ. Just imported your profile into D3Planner - currently, your WW has 493m DPS, with your SoJ 396m DPS. The elite damage makes it break even, that's why the time on Ghom was about the same. Those numbers on trash sound very much like anecdotal evidence and the gap of 4 times as much damage is just your owned skewed perception (otherwise Ghom would've died 3 times as fast in the double SG setup despite the SoJ elite damage boost in the other setup).
For proper testing you need comparable rings. More specifically, if you test a "gg rolled Skull Grasp" it's not fair to compare it with a "completely crappy rolled SoJ". Rolling off the fire damage from the SoJ was a grave mistake, sorry to say it like that - but why not keep the fire damage and take the WW fire rune? You *never* roll the elemental damage off an SoJ. The entire point of what makes the SoJ great is exactly the elemental damage (with Stricken and Furnace the elite damage is far less effective than the elemental damage). You can pretty much trash that SoJ... not sure why you didn't just roll off the vitality instead?
Anyways, I can't test it myself since I trashed my legacy SG. But I'd urge you to do a proper testing, and then I'm sure you'll see that other rings are more useful. Also, one more thing: Note that SoJ isn't even an endgame ring currently for, at least to my knowledge, any class/spec. The order is pretty much Endless Walk (Compass Rose+Traveler's Pledge) > CoE > Focus and Restraint > SoJ in terms of offense. Since you can't wear both Endless Walk and F+R, most specs these days use Compass Rose, which allows you to use CoE plus a defensive ring (Unity as a general choice or Band of Might for barbs in particular).
They probably both work - the new one adds multiplicative damage, the old one additive damage. However, almost any other ring you replace the legacy one with (SoJ, CoE, Unity, Compass Rose, Focus/Restraint and put SG in cube...) is better. That's why everyone threw the old one away - it was just "broken" and utterly useless by being additive instead of multiplicative.
There are more interesting examples for combining legacy+new items; one that actually makes sense (as the legacy one isn't plain useless) is The Three Hundredth Spear. And there are probably more. For this one, you can safely throw the old one away. You can test it by equipping no gear except both Skull Grasps and a Mara's Kaleidoscope and then start fighting Ghom on TX. You'll see that as soon as you switch CoE or SoJ in for the legacy SG, your damage will go up.
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ModeratorKeep in mind what that was about: Testing the difference between two setups - double SG or SG+any other ring. What other gear you wear is completely irrelevant. Also, those tests are more reliable when they last longer, so usually I do them without weapon or gimp my DPS otherwise. As I said, you can almost do it naked with only the rings if you equip Mara's since most of Ghom's damage is poison.
Take a look at the builds here:
http://www.diablofans.com/builds?filter-build=7&filter-has-spell-2=-1&filter-build-tag=5&filter-class=2
Basically, ALL BARB BUILDS use the same setup: Hellfire Amulet + Focus/Restraint. In cube you have a bit of variance (CoE for damage, Unity/Band of Might for defense) but neither Skull Grasp, nor Stone of Jordan or the Endless Walk set play a role for barbs. However, this thread is about finding out if double Skull Grasp has some value, and all I want to do is point out how you can properly test the "alternatives". Focus+Restraint isn't really an option to test though as it means removing both rings (and it will be the best choice in the end, I'm sure about that). That's why I mention other rings such as CoE, SoJ, and so on.
Hope that clarifies a few things ;-)
I like testing things, especially unusual things, and I like that you defend your theory. It usually take forever to chance established gearing/skill choices and it's so easy to dismiss alternatives. However, it's really important to test properly and not fool yourself. Note that after all testing you feel that your double SG combination is better, then by all means use it! In the end, this game is about fun, and you should use what *you* think it's best. However, I'm not convinced yet by what you wrote here that the legacy SG is *not* broken. :-)
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ModeratorWell of course your damage goes up if you have a Skull Grasp with pretty good stats compared to a crappy useless SoJ. Just imported your profile into D3Planner - currently, your WW has 493m DPS, with your SoJ 396m DPS. The elite damage makes it break even, that's why the time on Ghom was about the same. Those numbers on trash sound very much like anecdotal evidence and the gap of 4 times as much damage is just your owned skewed perception (otherwise Ghom would've died 3 times as fast in the double SG setup despite the SoJ elite damage boost in the other setup).
For proper testing you need comparable rings. More specifically, if you test a "gg rolled Skull Grasp" it's not fair to compare it with a "completely crappy rolled SoJ". Rolling off the fire damage from the SoJ was a grave mistake, sorry to say it like that - but why not keep the fire damage and take the WW fire rune? You *never* roll the elemental damage off an SoJ. The entire point of what makes the SoJ great is exactly the elemental damage (with Stricken and Furnace the elite damage is far less effective than the elemental damage). You can pretty much trash that SoJ... not sure why you didn't just roll off the vitality instead?
Anyways, I can't test it myself since I trashed my legacy SG. But I'd urge you to do a proper testing, and then I'm sure you'll see that other rings are more useful. Also, one more thing: Note that SoJ isn't even an endgame ring currently for, at least to my knowledge, any class/spec. The order is pretty much Endless Walk (Compass Rose+Traveler's Pledge) > CoE > Focus and Restraint > SoJ in terms of offense. Since you can't wear both Endless Walk and F+R, most specs these days use Compass Rose, which allows you to use CoE plus a defensive ring (Unity as a general choice or Band of Might for barbs in particular).
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ModeratorThey probably both work - the new one adds multiplicative damage, the old one additive damage. However, almost any other ring you replace the legacy one with (SoJ, CoE, Unity, Compass Rose, Focus/Restraint and put SG in cube...) is better. That's why everyone threw the old one away - it was just "broken" and utterly useless by being additive instead of multiplicative.
There are more interesting examples for combining legacy+new items; one that actually makes sense (as the legacy one isn't plain useless) is The Three Hundredth Spear. And there are probably more. For this one, you can safely throw the old one away. You can test it by equipping no gear except both Skull Grasps and a Mara's Kaleidoscope and then start fighting Ghom on TX. You'll see that as soon as you switch CoE or SoJ in for the legacy SG, your damage will go up.