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Quote from Raptorbonz42

if you don't have an Item that can compare to your best 1-hander put the shield on.
[...]
It makes sense that a bad weapon would lower your ability to do damage when you try to use it.

Your first phrase is correct, that's why we will all be 2handed for the most time because we just won't have that second 1handed weapon of doom and (almost) anything less than that will be less damage than even s/s. If you don't consider this stupid, well, your choice.

On the second phrase I just cannot agree. There are only 3 classes that can dual wield and this means they are trained to do so. So whatever they do with their left hand wouldn't hurt the ability of the right hand. Maybe we as humans would have coordination issues, but not these "heroes".


And panda: I just don't get wth you're talking about, let's keep it at that.

What shall I say? This is so ludicrous.
You do realize that your mainhand weapon of doom will swing less often and deal less overall damage if you equip any offhand weapon? Fine. You actually want this? Amazing. You state this has been the case in any other game so far? Unlikely. For example, your 2.80 mainhand in WoW would have hit every 2.80 secs no matter your offhand. It didn't go to 5.60 like your suggesting

I have no problem with the offhand weapon of suck doing it's crappy damage, that's the way it should be and I never said otherwise.. But equiping an _additional_ weapon shouldn't decrease your output, period.

Quote from Red_Panda

You're forgetting that dual wielding automatically gets a bonus 15% attack speed. It swings faster than sword and board - period. Therefore it does more damage. I believe it should decrease your damage.

No, I'm actually aware of the speed bonus. I'm a little confused about your opinion switching from one phrase to another, but whatever.
Let's try a little calculation. So your mainhand weapon does x dps. If you use it alone with no offhand, you do x dps. If you equip a shield, you may even do a little more depending on it's stats. Now if you equip a second weapon with y dps, your x dps are gone and -simply put- morphed into (x+y)/2 * 1.15.
So, if x = y, you gain 15% damage. But if y < x, you can actually get less than x dps as a result if the difference is big enough. I checked this ingame, so if you don't believe me, try it on your own.
So, to put it a little extreme: DW is only viable, if you have your one, big, amazing weapon twice. Odds are, your best two weapons at any given point will vary in dps.
As a result, the offhand plays an important role, which is good, but this role is called "mirror the mainhand or drag you down". Still don't like this

edit: tl/dr version:
Equipping an offhand does not equal a bonus in this game because it reduces the output of your mainhand, which it shouldn't. Never ever

Quote from Red_Panda

Quote from Solmyr77

Quote from Red_Panda

Quote from Solmyr77

Oh, I think, there was a blue post stating sth like every attack uses your "onehand"-slot. But you're right, ingame I can produce very different damage numbers between a 15.6 and a 6.3 dps weapon dual wiedling both at once. edit: too tired, I believe you for now and think about it tomorrow
Seems to be better than I thought it was.

He never said every.

He said most.

Getting back to this for a moment. Dual Wield is in a really sad state imo. You can actually decrease your damage output going from 1h to DW(if the offhand is significantly weaker than the mainhand). That should just not be the case.

I disagree. That SHOULD be the case. What would be the point of dual wielding if swinging your off-hand that did terrible damage didn't actually do the damage of your off-hand? IT would be completely pointless.

Dual wielding is far from a sad state. It is in a very viable and balanced state. All 3 forms of weaponry are extremely viable due to this.

Eh.. no! Not at all. I mean, if you already swing a hammer and use your left hand for nothing, then adding even the tieniest of needles into this left hand should increase your damage. But this is not the case.
I never said, this needle should do the same damage as the hammer, no way, but it shouldn't decrease damage, that's never been in any DW implementation I am aware of. You'd do less damage than that sword & board pala next to you. Ridiculous

Quote from Red_Panda

Quote from Solmyr77

Oh, I think, there was a blue post stating sth like every attack uses your "onehand"-slot. But you're right, ingame I can produce very different damage numbers between a 15.6 and a 6.3 dps weapon dual wiedling both at once. edit: too tired, I believe you for now and think about it tomorrow
Seems to be better than I thought it was.

He never said every.

He said most.

Getting back to this for a moment. Dual Wield is in a really sad state imo. You can actually decrease your damage output going from 1h to DW(if the offhand is significantly weaker than the mainhand). That should just not be the case.

Oh, I think, there was a blue post stating sth like every attack uses your "onehand"-slot. But you're right, ingame I can produce very different damage numbers between a 15.6 and a 6.3 dps weapon dual wiedling both at once. edit: too tired, I believe you for now and think about it tomorrow
Seems to be better than I thought it was.

edit: This is the blue post I meant: http://www.diablofans.com/blizz-tracker/topic/219255-main-hand-damage/

He says, the offhand swings on it's own but uses the mainhand multiplicator. Whatever that may mean.

Whichever is better at any given moment. I've been both during my MMO times, have a slight style preferance for dual wield, but I absolutely don't like it's current implementation. The offhand looks so pointless if every attack(edit: not sure, see below) uses the mainhand for damage calcs. Don't care if the animation looks different because it has +2-4 fire damage instead of cold. It's just a stat carrier item, like necro heads, pala relics, whatever(mixing games a little) and that's disappointing. Even in AD&D, offhands would swing for their own damage every once in a while(like a 4:1 ratio in Baldur's Gate 2). In WoW, they really mattered, to the point of being more important than the main weapon(for speed reasons).
As of now, from what I've seen in the beta, 2h looks much better, especially if you can boost it with a quiver(well, for DHs).