I am making this post to see if anyone else currently feels the same way I do about the Witch Doctor.
I want to say that I completely LOVE the class. I was initially drawn to the class because pre-launch they really talked a lot and boasted about the pets. I have always played pet-classes in just about every video game I ever played. Normal mode, Nightmare, and the first few acts of Hell were a total BLAST. As I progressed through the end of Hell and the early parts of Inferno it became very clear to me that pets were just simply not going to be a part of the equation. So inevitably I had to completely change my play-style to a darts/snare build.
It takes some getting used to, but I still think the end-game play-style of darts / snare is still pretty fun but until a very high level of gear it just doesn't get shit done. Playing the witch doctor in this fashion almost feels like you were given a toolbox to fix a sink with, but the toolbox is entirely empty except for two mismatched drill bits and broken measuring tape. It just does not feel like there is enough utility.
So after beating my head into Act 3 for a long enough time, I decided to roll Wizard. As soon as I hit 60 I gave my Wizard all the WD's gear and started to farm with him. I think progressing through Act 2 is really when it really hit me.
Witch Doctor, in it's current state, is totally and completely broken.
I was totally blown away at how much more utility, damage, and control a wizard has compared to a WD. Now, the wizard doesn't have Vision Quest, but honestly, they don't even need it.
And I think for the very short term I know how to fix it: Take the cool-down, entirely, off of Grasp of the Dead.
In the long term, I think if they make pets a little more resilient, work out the kinks with zombie bears (and all of the zombie chargers, really), and fix that GOD-AWFUL cast animation on poison darts I will be returning happily to my Witch Doctor.
im still playing my WD and I still like it. Do i feel it needs a buff.... hell yeah who doesn't like buffs. But I like WD's play style and I've actually played with a monk and wiz, so far I've gone back to WD.
I played WD as my first class and brought him to A4 inferno pre 1.03 doing nothing but poison darts and lots of CC. Boring as hell. No variety at all. The only fun part is keeping myself from getting one shot. But with 1.03 that's no longer a concern. The nerf in IAS also made it even more boring to play WD. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the poison dart animation is awful..
I was really sad by the time I got to Inferno when I realized I had to scrap my Garg. In Act 1 he can sort of buy me a few precious seconds when escaping a mob of elites, but he's certainly no clay golem. And some of the cooldowns are totally unnecessary that's for sure. I totally get it for like Soul Harvest and Spirit Walk to have cooldowns, But for the pets, considering they can't survive worth crap in Inferno, at least let me cast them again sooner. And the mana cost of the WD are quite expensive in resource anyway that just the mana regen by itself should count as its cooldown.
I know wealthier WD players don't have this problem cause they have gear that regens their mana like crazy, but for poor WD's like me, having little mana regen AND cooldowns working against me makes my already useless pets even more useless. And yeah, other crowd control abilities like grasp or zombie wall, I hate their cooldown periods. I mean, the Necro had bonewall and even with no cooldown on that skill, it's not like it solved all your problems being able to stall your enemy. So why the long cooldowns on zombie wall anyway?
WD suffers from long cooldowns. BBV, Fetish Army and Zombie Wall should have cooldown 50% lower and the sill would be ok.
I mean, you can't compare WotB / Archon and BBV/Fetish Army, thats a joke. In one case i get like 3x, 5x times my damage. In Wd you get 40% buff if you stay inside that freaking small area, c'mon. Or summon a bunch of guys that will tank stuff for me during 5 seconds ¬¬
Wall of Zombies could have 15 or 20 seconds and it wouldn't be OP. Still WD have amazing survival skills: Spiritwalk and Hex. None is 10% as good as Smokescreen but SS is totally insane lol.
Yeah I think most can agree that you can drastically reduce cooldowns on a lot of WD skills and that'd be far from making them overpowered.
And yes, WD does have awesome survival skills. I love the combinatino of Soul Harvest with life steal combined with Spirit Walk. But they seriously need to make pets more viable for this class. I mean, the WD is supposed to be THE summoner class, isn't it? I'm used to pets not being able to kill really from my Necromancer days, but gosh, at least let the pets have more life. Either that or just reduce the mana cost of skills or a combination of these things cause WD's totally getting the short end of the stick right now.
WD was my first too, solo act 1 and 2 inferno then made a wiz and never looked back. The play styles are too few if you want to do splinters make a hunter that will shoot for more than 60%... The other viable builds bats/bears required a unique 4 useless cds and passives. Also, I don't think pets will ever be on par unless they are completely reworked.
Also, I don't think pets will ever be on par unless they are completely reworked.
Well like I said I don't ever need my pet to have a lot of killing power. I just either wish it could tank, or even nearly tank, or at least have more diverse abilities that would give me a tactical advantage in dealing with mobs.
Well, they said that they are planning on making pets scale with vitality as well whenever they get around to the next patch, so I see them becoming a bit better after that, and everyone will be going back to their WD.
I had put mine on the shelf for my wizard when I hit inferno as well, but now that I have a monk friend in good enough gear, we are farming ACT II with little issues. The biggest thing is that we get to do a great deal of damage if we have a tank, but if we have to kite, we juust can't get the damage in to kill stuff fast enough.
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Yeah I'm impatient for another patch to overhaul the WD. I don't feel like starting with a new class, and like a lot of people I'm just kinda stuck in Act 2 no matter how many times I respec. So I'm kind of bored of the game lately as a result and I'm just veggin' out on some Fallout.
Welcome to the new Diablo. THEY decided that minions killing things aren't FUN, so they nerfed Zombie dogs to the ground and WILL keep nerfing them if you somehow make them do viable damage. This is just WoW style balancing, where when you find new playstyle that isn't intended, even if not giving gamebreaking boost, it will be nerfed until the game is played THEIR way.
Sad, but don't expect any fun out of minions until they loose their playerbase and maybe notice that balance in PvM is not what people were looking for in D3.
@Derwiv33
My Monk with 600loh and 400 resist all can face tank elites while standing in their crap and basically never die. You have better stats, just to make your PETS die a bit slower. Not seeing problem?
The way I see it, Blizz really needs to fix the pet viability problem, soon. It's destroying the class. I guess they are trying to wrap everything into a comprehensive patch with 1.04, but they really need to get it cranked out. Of course WD does not have the utility of other ranged classes (Wiz/DH) because we are not meant to be pure range - there is supposed to be some close-quarters element to WD, but losing 1/3 of our passives and much of our active skills by not having pets is breaking the WD.
I still love my WD and am NOT rerolling my class, but it's really a problem right now. I wanted the challenge of a petless WD from day 1. I knew the theme and playstyle I wanted and for the most part its served me well; however, my utility and survivability in inferno (v. well geared) is tremendously hampered compared to my teammates in whimsey and A3. I'm a highly skilled player, but getting 1-shotted with 30k life and 700 res @ is too much. Things like fracture and shorter CD or spammable escape for other classes just makes my utility so much weaker. I understand that I'm not meant to sit and take hits on inferno, but we don't have other options if we can't have access to the primary utility component of our class (pets). As someone who was strongly, personally up for the challenge of petless WD, I'm now at the "wall" where I'd normally swap a slot for the survival a pet could offer in inferno - but it's just not viable. fetishes just don't count as a real pet. They are great and all - but in A3 and whimsey Inferno even they get 1 shotted by elites - so at most they are a 5 second distraction.
As my wizard buddy/roommate puts it - I often just save him a bar slot by being his "mirror image" in most of our runs. I'm his utility/debuff support - I Grasp/Fetish/Mass Hallucinate while he pumps out the damage (I out gear him by lightyears in every slot). How can I compete with fracture and force armor in survivability and utility? He loves it, gets to see high numbers and be an effective killing machine, while I'm there as a debuffer and "mirror image". I still enjoy the game, but seeing my effectiveness be reduced like that bums me out sometimes.
Of course I could re-roll my class and be more effective in Whimsey, but I have no desire to do that. I could also run separately and just keep re-farming A1 and A2, but I want to play in a group with my roommate and another mutual friend (DH). Roommate has no problem rolling through Inferno Whimsey on his Wizard - again, far out geared by me.
Nearly everyone I know IRL who I play with has re-rolled either Wizard or DH - I have too much pride and arrogance to do that, but I think there's also a core-value as a gamer to play the way I want to play. I'm not rolling with an outrageous, unsustainable spec and I HATE QQing. So far, 2 barb IRL friends re-rolled Wiz and DH, respectively. Two of my monk IRL friends re-rolled DH. Of those IRL friends, 3 have quit playing because they don't like the play style of their re-rolls and wish they could play their original class as effectively as what they originally wanted/intended to play.
Agree with OP, i've a feeling that WD is the most gimped class atm. It's entirely possible to beat inferno on WD, but playstyle isn't fun when flashiest skills are useless. Hope Blizz will take a serious look on WD, especially in pet aspect of the class. Even #1 pet skill fetish army often feels underpowered - fetishes run in, hit, run out. Their dps uptime is horrible. Same goes for fetishes spawned with passive. Just make this fellows choose their target of choice and stick to it - they would do tons more dps. Rest summons are not even worth mentioning.
Also why do we see such dmg difference between similar Wizzard/Monk and WD spells - for example Spider queen is pretty similar to blizzard, hydra and sweeping wind - PBAOE passive dmg, but it's a lot weaker then its counterparts.
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I want to say that I completely LOVE the class. I was initially drawn to the class because pre-launch they really talked a lot and boasted about the pets. I have always played pet-classes in just about every video game I ever played. Normal mode, Nightmare, and the first few acts of Hell were a total BLAST. As I progressed through the end of Hell and the early parts of Inferno it became very clear to me that pets were just simply not going to be a part of the equation. So inevitably I had to completely change my play-style to a darts/snare build.
It takes some getting used to, but I still think the end-game play-style of darts / snare is still pretty fun but until a very high level of gear it just doesn't get shit done. Playing the witch doctor in this fashion almost feels like you were given a toolbox to fix a sink with, but the toolbox is entirely empty except for two mismatched drill bits and broken measuring tape. It just does not feel like there is enough utility.
So after beating my head into Act 3 for a long enough time, I decided to roll Wizard. As soon as I hit 60 I gave my Wizard all the WD's gear and started to farm with him. I think progressing through Act 2 is really when it really hit me.
Witch Doctor, in it's current state, is totally and completely broken.
I was totally blown away at how much more utility, damage, and control a wizard has compared to a WD. Now, the wizard doesn't have Vision Quest, but honestly, they don't even need it.
And I think for the very short term I know how to fix it: Take the cool-down, entirely, off of Grasp of the Dead.
In the long term, I think if they make pets a little more resilient, work out the kinks with zombie bears (and all of the zombie chargers, really), and fix that GOD-AWFUL cast animation on poison darts I will be returning happily to my Witch Doctor.
Does anybody else feel the same way?
tl;dr wah wah wah WD suck plz buff
I know wealthier WD players don't have this problem cause they have gear that regens their mana like crazy, but for poor WD's like me, having little mana regen AND cooldowns working against me makes my already useless pets even more useless. And yeah, other crowd control abilities like grasp or zombie wall, I hate their cooldown periods. I mean, the Necro had bonewall and even with no cooldown on that skill, it's not like it solved all your problems being able to stall your enemy. So why the long cooldowns on zombie wall anyway?
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
I mean, you can't compare WotB / Archon and BBV/Fetish Army, thats a joke. In one case i get like 3x, 5x times my damage. In Wd you get 40% buff if you stay inside that freaking small area, c'mon. Or summon a bunch of guys that will tank stuff for me during 5 seconds ¬¬
Wall of Zombies could have 15 or 20 seconds and it wouldn't be OP. Still WD have amazing survival skills: Spiritwalk and Hex. None is 10% as good as Smokescreen but SS is totally insane lol.
And yes, WD does have awesome survival skills. I love the combinatino of Soul Harvest with life steal combined with Spirit Walk. But they seriously need to make pets more viable for this class. I mean, the WD is supposed to be THE summoner class, isn't it? I'm used to pets not being able to kill really from my Necromancer days, but gosh, at least let the pets have more life. Either that or just reduce the mana cost of skills or a combination of these things cause WD's totally getting the short end of the stick right now.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
I had put mine on the shelf for my wizard when I hit inferno as well, but now that I have a monk friend in good enough gear, we are farming ACT II with little issues. The biggest thing is that we get to do a great deal of damage if we have a tank, but if we have to kite, we juust can't get the damage in to kill stuff fast enough.
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Sad, but don't expect any fun out of minions until they loose their playerbase and maybe notice that balance in PvM is not what people were looking for in D3.
@Derwiv33
My Monk with 600loh and 400 resist all can face tank elites while standing in their crap and basically never die. You have better stats, just to make your PETS die a bit slower. Not seeing problem?
I still love my WD and am NOT rerolling my class, but it's really a problem right now. I wanted the challenge of a petless WD from day 1. I knew the theme and playstyle I wanted and for the most part its served me well; however, my utility and survivability in inferno (v. well geared) is tremendously hampered compared to my teammates in whimsey and A3. I'm a highly skilled player, but getting 1-shotted with 30k life and 700 res @ is too much. Things like fracture and shorter CD or spammable escape for other classes just makes my utility so much weaker. I understand that I'm not meant to sit and take hits on inferno, but we don't have other options if we can't have access to the primary utility component of our class (pets). As someone who was strongly, personally up for the challenge of petless WD, I'm now at the "wall" where I'd normally swap a slot for the survival a pet could offer in inferno - but it's just not viable. fetishes just don't count as a real pet. They are great and all - but in A3 and whimsey Inferno even they get 1 shotted by elites - so at most they are a 5 second distraction.
As my wizard buddy/roommate puts it - I often just save him a bar slot by being his "mirror image" in most of our runs. I'm his utility/debuff support - I Grasp/Fetish/Mass Hallucinate while he pumps out the damage (I out gear him by lightyears in every slot). How can I compete with fracture and force armor in survivability and utility? He loves it, gets to see high numbers and be an effective killing machine, while I'm there as a debuffer and "mirror image". I still enjoy the game, but seeing my effectiveness be reduced like that bums me out sometimes.
Of course I could re-roll my class and be more effective in Whimsey, but I have no desire to do that. I could also run separately and just keep re-farming A1 and A2, but I want to play in a group with my roommate and another mutual friend (DH). Roommate has no problem rolling through Inferno Whimsey on his Wizard - again, far out geared by me.
Nearly everyone I know IRL who I play with has re-rolled either Wizard or DH - I have too much pride and arrogance to do that, but I think there's also a core-value as a gamer to play the way I want to play. I'm not rolling with an outrageous, unsustainable spec and I HATE QQing. So far, 2 barb IRL friends re-rolled Wiz and DH, respectively. Two of my monk IRL friends re-rolled DH. Of those IRL friends, 3 have quit playing because they don't like the play style of their re-rolls and wish they could play their original class as effectively as what they originally wanted/intended to play.
Also why do we see such dmg difference between similar Wizzard/Monk and WD spells - for example Spider queen is pretty similar to blizzard, hydra and sweeping wind - PBAOE passive dmg, but it's a lot weaker then its counterparts.