Why not just put 1 stat that is completly locked and automatic for every class, it would do something different for each one. Lets call it,
Main Stat
Barbarian it could be something like strength that boost damage
Wizard - spell damage etc.
That stat would be automatic and locked, you wouldn't be able to change it
Then you would have Secondary stats that you would be able to fully customize
Every armor and weapon would be tied to the Main Stat
That would just serve to differentiate the classes even more if every class had different main stats and items were directly related to their main stats. It also sounds like a more extreme iteration of the hybrid system putting the ratio at 4 allocatable/1 automatic
Yeah I really understand yours or his point (not sure if you copied all from the bnet link).
I mean a melee Wizard would be totally cool and outstanding from any normal build...
But when I heard the decision about auto allocated stats I actually got happy. The worst part of d2 was playing, having the time of your life, doing skills and putting stats. Wow look at this bararnars star, I want it for my amazon. Ding ding ding I put the 183 str or whatever that's required. Later I find this super cool bow I want instead. What hmm.. Only need 100 str? Oh.. Wow, now I totally suck in NM and hell.
I mean. When I started playing last time I just when looking on google "Best mf sorc" or whatever just because you need to know the exact stat to put to have the best cookie cutter char.
There are pros and cons with it. But for me the cons are just in favor.
Now it's just like "Oh yeah I want full tal rasha. Ok with perf torch and anni I need 115 str ok np" click click click.
I will agree that the feeling was utterly überness when played at first.
Wow... I can choose from energy, vitality, wow I'm from Sweden what does that mean (speaks 11-year old Ritual), dexterity and strength. Wow I'm a brute barbarian, I'll go for 2 in Strength but I also need dexterity so I can hit my enemy, 1 in dex. And hmm I also need life, 2 in vitality.
That whole procedure was so cool and I really loved it. I'm thinking about how they could implement stats correctly in D3 without making it cookie cutter-like and just knowing your stats from some guide-page.
Could be tons and tons and tons and again, tons of items so you'd always select differently and not know. But I think it would still end up with oh i'm lvl 70 with 300 stat points. Waiting for my other mf char to find some good gear so I know what to put out with this.
The best way I can think of avoiding cookie cutter stat builds is to simply give stats more meaning. Give players more incentive other then using equipment to put points in Strength and Dex. Give players a reason to invest in Mana instead of just getting more mana and faster regen.
For example:
STRENGTH ~ +% critical strike damage w/heavy melee weapons, +% damage to weapon based skills, +% health regeneration (on top of already in place stat buffs from D2 however they may apply and subject to balance)
DEXTERITY ~ +% attack speed, +% critical strike damage w/ light melee weapons and ranged weapons, +% physical damage resist (on top of already in place stat buffs from D2 however they may apply and subject to balance)
VITALITY ~ carry current buffs from D2 over however they may apply and subject to balance
Just made these off the top of my head, and they would definitely give players more incentive to allocate their points more liberally across all attributes for ALL classes. That was the main problem in D2, stats were not important enough.
Quote from "Ivaron" »
Halfway through, just want to add a positive:
- Promotes coop: you'll know what stats other players will have, and so it's easier to find a suitable coop companion.
Edit: ah, read it all. I must say, I'm coming from the same standpoint as Ritual. I think the automatic stats allocation is a good thing. Though, I must admit, when I first played WoW it was one of the things that struck me as odd and quite stupid.
Thinking about it for a while, though, yes D3's system is better than D2's system. However, I also see your points, and I think that there is always room to improve.
So! After reading this thread, I must say I really like the idea of Splitting auto allocated points and allocatable points upon level up. (yeah I just copied that :p)
I'll go with 2/3 though, definately not 3/2.
I agree, if they decided to implement the hybrid system, I would also definitely say 2/3 is the way to go.
Before I even get started, I'm not making a post whining about the change to attributes, I'm simply stating some serious concerns after hearing about this new mechanic while trying to keep an objective point of view.
I apologize in advance for the giant wall of text, but please take the time to read through and contribute to this thread if the recent news of stat auto-allocation is important to you!
This thread was reiterated from battle.net (same person, similar account name) and posted here to help inform the community of the problem so members of multiple communities could form objective points of view on this subject and see both sides of the argument, but more importantly, to help find a middle ground where EVERYONE will be satisfied, including the developers!
For those who are not aware, stat points are currently allocated automatically and the player has no control over where these points are placed. Everything is pre-determined based on class.
Lets start on a positive note.
Jay Wilson, according to the interview, stated that this helps development on items as they will be able to predict the attributes of characters at certain levels and it puts more emphasis on items giving stat points for your attribute customization.
It takes away the necessity for level requirements.There were plenty of times when, in D2, you found a decent item that was useful immediately, but you'd be neglecting your Str and, even though you met the level requirements, you couldn't use it. By the time you gained enough levels and earned enough points to use it, the item was already obsolete. That's what they really want to avoid: the player missing out on a bunch of immediately useful items just because they'd been neglecting a stat.
Instead of adding level requirements to items, they'll just require X amount of a certain stat. Because all Barbs will, for example, hit 52 Str by level 20, they'll be able to use it then, whereas Witch Doctors and Wizards will need to wait until 25 or 30 before they have enough Str to use it.
It shifts focus from attributes to skills in character customization.
Promotes coop; You'll know what stats other players will have, and so it's easier to find a suitable coop companion.
I can't think of anything else that could be considered positive, so lets go to the theoretical negatives.
I'm going to be referring to pre-LoD when referring to Diablo2 game play, because essentially with the onset of runewords, and the anni/torch, attributes became obsolete and were generic over ALL character classes. (min str, no mana, all vita, maybe some dex) However, pre-patch and pre-LoD attributes were a key part of character customization as you could build a sorc that focused on energy shield, which meant almost all mana and minimal vitality. (it was OP, but that's not the point) You could also make a melee sorc, where it was viable in early patches as game balance wasn't based on LoD itemization, which meant, for this build, crazy str/dex vita which doesn't happen anymore. This is something that a lot of people aren't taking into consideration! Attributes became a broken mechanic after the LoD, it was far more useful pre-expansion and has a lot of room to be reiterated and applied to Diablo3 in a new and compelling way! Anyways, back to the analyzing.
- The first problem that comes to mind is character customization is exactly what made Diablo3's predecessors successful, and that's what is being hurt by the implementation of this mechanic as it takes away control from the player, essentially, dictating how they will develop their character. It was that aspect that had players coming back again and again over the years just to make a new build or try out something new and attributes were a BIG part of that.
- The other aspect that quickly becomes apparent is the limitations of itemization for characters to use. What I mean is, because characters have pre-planned stats that when you reach the highest level, there will be item types that your character might not be able to use.
Hypothetical example; I think we can be fairly certain that the Wizard isn't going to be a strength based character by any means. If this is the case, late game, can we hope to be able to use upper tier heavy armor? If there is an item that might significantly benefit a build but is unusable due to pre-allocated stat limitations, that is going to be severely detrimental to the game experience.
It seems like a minor thing, maybe, but it has the potential to be a HUGE part of the game.
Other negatives that come to mind include, as stated before, an oversimplified experience taking away from one of the Diablo franchises greatest redeeming qualities.
By shifting itemization focus slightly from more unique and compelling stats like skills, crushing blow, open wounds, resists, faster cast rate, etc, it puts too much emphasis on stats, as they were already important in itemization before pre-allocated stats.
The last thing that comes to mind is it creates a world of mediocrity within the base of each character. When all characters have a base that is identical to all characters of the same class, it's like running around with a bunch of clones where the only thing separating you from your playmates is the armor you're wearing and the skills you're using.
With all that said, I think, despite my clear bias against the mechanic, there is merit in both aspects. If there wasn't, the development team wouldn't be using it right now.
The key thing is there must be some level of customization for stats as, after reading about the enchant skill for the Wizard, I personally want to make a melee Wizard with Slow time and teleport (striking runes and all that jazz). However the fact that my character might not have enough strength to use equipment that would ultimately make the class viable or representative to the image I want to portray, it becomes very apparent that this mechanic is of major concern for those, like me, that will want to explore obscure and abstract builds.
A compromise would be the best way to go I think. Complete control ultimately ends up with generic cookie cutter formulas for character building (as was evident in Diablo2:LoD) if done poorly and absolutely no control will most likely end up taking away from the versatility of character customization and the overall Diablo experience.
What that compromise is? I don't know, I'm no developer or programmer. I just hope the development finds some sort of middle ground.
Mentioned possible solutions/compromises
Splitting auto allocated points and allocatable points upon level up.
This is the best of the compromises presented so far. In fact, I think it could work even better then Diablo2's stat allocation system that gave players total freedom.
If we want to look at why this mechanic we first have to know the numbers in play;
In Diablo2 you got 5 points per level and leveled up 98 times (Starting at level 1 meant you didn't gain any stats for that level and 99 is the max: 99-1=98 total levels gained) therefore you you gained a total of 490 stat points by leveling up 5 for each of the Lam Esens Tome quest in Normal/Nightmare/Hell difficulties.
Which means in Diablo2 you got a total of 505 points to distribute as you saw fit.
Now in Diablo3, we know you will be able to level up to 100, so that's one more set of 5 points we can give to the total stat pool in Diablo3's endgame.
So, aside from quests, we currently know there will be 495 points in Diablo3 assuming each level similarly distributes 5 stat points like in Diablo2.
Before I get into how dividing the points effects the stat allocation mechanic for the better, I will reiterate what the development team has stated is their reason for implementing this mechanic.
- They want to regulate stat allocation so that they can organize itemization based on predicted class level restrictions and base stat projections.
(basically what it boils down to.)
So, by splitting up stat points per level, here's what happens:
When you give a player 2 points to allocate per level it accumulates to 198 total points to spend wherever you want end game which is MORE then enough to customize your character and make up for any lack of a stat that may occur as a result of the automatic stat allocation. This leaves the development team 297 points to distribute and give them a very solid base for class predictions and itemization organization. REMEMBER, there will most likely be quests similar to Lam Esens Tome that will give you stats to distribute so I doubt 198 would be a problem. You can probably expect the number to be closer to 220 or 225 roughly.
OR
When you give a player 3 points to allocate per level it turns into 297 points to place as you see fit. Now, this still leaves 198 points for the blizzard staff to place under the guidelines of the auto-allocation system giving them a base to project what minimum there will be within the community regarding stats. However it is not quite as effective as the 2/3 ratio stated above.
This system would actually give the development team even MORE room to create compelling itemization options within the game as, by giving them a base, they can further expand on their knowledge of the possible items by knowing how far to raise or lower requirements based on what limitations already exist within the class bases which would similarly give players more options for creating unique and interesting builds that otherwise wouldn't be possible.
Personally, I would see the implementation of this mechanic (either 2/3 or 3/2 stat points) as a major step in the right direction and a positive iteration on the Diablo2 stat allocation system.
Quest rewards that would give you stat points.
Quests like Lam Esen's tome would be nice; you would need quite a few of these quests, though, to make it worthwhile being able to spend points where you wanted to.
Currently I would imagine this is already implemented however as a singular way to customize characters statistics I do not believe it would be enough. Only because a character with a sever detriment to a particular stat probably won't be able to make up for that disadvantage through quest stats alone, and if it did become a common reward, one could argue that it would give the game a feeling of mediocrity in that too many quests would give this reward if it was to be made viable. I believe 2-3 quests can be expected (not including Normal/Nightmare/Hell, so a total of 6-9 skill quests estimated) roughly given the projected quest prediction (I think they said something like 12 or so quests per act, give or take a few? Can't remember where, I'll have to source it later.)
To simply reiterate the stat allocation system by giving more compelling attribute effects to stat points to give players more incentive to place points in different statistics.
This is something I hope they do regardless of whatever system they settle on.
Feel free to discuss your concerns here if I forgot to mention anything but this thread is created for searching for a compromise as I believe, given the effect of the art controversy petition and it's utter lack of effect, that is the best thing we can hope for IF we can suggest solutions instead of simply complaining concerning aspects we disagree with.
Also, feel free to offer an objective opinion and discuss currently suggested compromises.
Yeah, your probably right, still, if all the whinoes are gonna unite to bitch about something the moment they see it, I'm gonna try and support Blizzard for doing a stand up job on making the game. It looks amazing IMO and those who agree with the opinion should let Blizzard know just the same.
Quote from "Espionage" »
I was the first to make one, and now your number 133942359834238912398233285223x 10^999999
If your referring to the petition, I said I wasn't the author.
If your referring to the thread, meh, the more the merrier. No one cares who was first, only that the opinion is spread and voiced.
I am not the petition author, however I find it extremely valid.
Here is a link to the petition if you support the current artistic direction of Diablo3:
I felt very compelled to create this petition in response to the recent and very vocal requests from some members of the Diablo fans community who are, in a word, 'disappointed' with Diablo 3's current artistic direction.
This petition is created to represent those of us, whom I feel are great in number, who genuinely believe that Blizzard should continue to do what they are doing with Diablo 3's art direction and not bend to the wishes of those who would wish to see Diablo 3's beauty and vibrancy reduced to shades of gray and brown.
Likewise, I feel compelled to state that we the players very much enjoy the stylistic and silhouette-heavy art of Diablo 3, because it lends much character to the game and allows us, the players, to be able to make out distinct qualities of each individual character and monster within the game.
Many of those who complain forget that Diablo and Diablo 2 were not without color. The vast majority of the game consisted of rich colors that allowed the darker areas, such as the Durance of Hate in Act 3 of Diablo 2 to stand out as one of the more 'Gothic horror' locations, in contrast the verdant jungles of Kurast. Spells were extremely colorful, and many of the game's unique locales were undeniably vibrant.
The current art direction within the game, as depicted in the trailers is completely immersive due to its distinct shapes, and the tones and vibrancy of its colors lend a truly 'epic', and 'fantasy' feel to the game expanding an already wonderful setting. To see all of this changed would be a great shame to a great many of us.
There are a great many of us out there who are disappointed in the complete lack of vibrance and the abundance of boring shades of gray and brown in many recent titles, and it is a breath of fresh air for us to see Blizzard's art direction with Diablo 3.
We therefore ask Blizzard to keep doing what it's doing, and retain the game's current art and style direction. We have the full measure of faith in Blizzard to deliver a fantastic game with fantastic art direction, in every sense of the term 'fantastic'.
Common arguments:
Q: The Diablo series was always dark, gloomy, muddy and dirty in every single instance.
A: Hyperbole. While Diablo 1 may have been darker than its sequel due to its lack of locations, it nonetheless featured some very bright, and visually vibrant locations like Tristram itself and the Caves.
Diablo 2 had many bright and vibrant locations in every single Act of the game. Act 1 had a gothic monastery with vibrant colors. Act 2 consisted of a brightly lit desert with an abundance of cacti, Act 3 had colorful jungles and vibrant step-pyramid tombs. Act 5 had crystalline formations and rivers of ice.
Q: Being colorful destroys the game's immersion and 'gothic feel'.
A: Gothic Cathedrals are filled with vibrant colors, due to the heavy use of stained glass windows and vibrant furnishings, yet still possess a very 'dark' and surreal quality. Colors are only one aspect of the mix. Gothic horror movies make heavy use of rich twilight gradients and colorful clothing on everyone who isn't a vampire.
Diablo 3's Art is currently:
* Stylish, giving Diablo 3 its own character and personality, allowing it to stand out from the crowd of brown and grey games, or 'realistic' (e.g. boring) looking games.
* Hand-crafted, and lovingly so. Much like Josh Kirby's art in the covers of the Discworld novels, it elicits a highly 'fantasy feel' that feels like a breath of fresh air.
* Not monotonous. The use of inviting colours, contours, tones, vibrance, and animations are some of the game's major strengths. Makes the game accessible and playable for a long period of time.
* The use of colors allow for a wide variety of settings and locations, away from the mundane worlds of greys and browns.
* Vibrant colors and a wide variety of locations do not prohibit the game from having 'dark gothic' locations within the game. Diablo 2 consisted mainly of vibrant locations, but that didn't prevent the Durance of Hate from being a part of the game.
It is our opinion, therefore, that the art direction of Diablo 3 should remain as it is, because we have full faith and confidence in Blizzard Entertainment's ability to deliver a truly compelling, and involving game.
_________
Personally, I'm so sick of listening to children b!tch and moan over the colours in a DEMO! For crying out loud, if you want to cry over the artistic direction, AT THE VERY LEAST wait for them to release more screen shots to confirm your suspicion!
With the Starcraft2 criticism it should be noted that they at least had a chance to release a decent amount of screen shots before the fan base started moaning, too an improved result, with both the siege tanks and the palette, but this is absurd! I say give Blizzard, whom has more f***ing experience developing amazing games then... let me see... any of you, a chance to at least show what they've been working on for the past 4 years.
Let's try and keep the maturity above middle school, PLEASE! The last thing I want to find out is the majority of the people I'll be playing with, when Diablo3 comes out, haven't even started puberty.
Areas will still be random. Answered in the panel.
w00t! Thanks for the confirmation! (I'm unable to watch right now so scourging the internet for info is rather daunting... yet I'm still doing it... :P)
BIG QUESTION - Will the areas be randomized in layout? Respectively of course.
I'm not sure how to word this... the areas in D2 all had random variations that were always different when you loaded a new game via Battle.net, will this feature be implemented in Diablo3 or will the random map generation be scrapped for a more fluid world feel?
Or better yet, will there be more of a marriage between the two options? A compromise?
I figured simply posting the full image earlier wouldn't quite do it. So I took the image, increased the contrast and lightened the highlights to amplify the snout and face in general, while doing so I noticed that you can vaguely make out the top of sharp teeth. I did my best to increase the contrast further in that area, so I have 3 images, 2 separate ones focusing on the snout and the teeth respectively, and a third with a red outline to mark the two suspected areas if they are eluding you guys. CROSSING MY FINGERS AND HOPING!!! DIABLO 3 PLEASE!!!!!!!! For some reason the image link button isn't working, and it takes a million refresh buttons and minutes to upload a single page here!!! High traffic I guess... so I will just post the links to the images for now: http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x6/EmeraldEnigmaPhotos/Untitled-1.jpghttp://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x6/EmeraldEnigmaPhotos/Untitled-12.jpghttp://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x6/EmeraldEnigmaPhotos/Untitled-13.jpg I'm stoked!!!
After seeing the post with the Viking Compass, it is clearly just that, but I find the similarity between the two striking.
Regardless, all we can really deduce from this image is that there are eyes behind the ice, no point in getting worked up, it'll be revealed tomorrow, we don't really have anything more than what we had yesterday, except for the LOST numbers, that is interesting. Along with the Harbinger, well, it appears the end of the world is coming!
Makes me think Diablo, but lets also take into consideration the Xel'Naga for Starcraft? PERHAPS it is a teaser portraying their awakening and how they will be invovled in the Starcraft game... and the game announcement has nothing to do with the teaser. On second thought... that's not possible, but it was a different take on the clues.
Just so we aren't so set on only seeing DIABLO hints and such all over the place. The Harbinger, the numbers 4 8 15 16 23 42 and their relative calculation to the end of all existence could easily pertain to Starcraft - remember what Zeratul said not long ago in a cinematic released for Starcraft 2? hehehe seem's kinda relevant, no?
Just my two cents. Not to give the wrong idea, I desperately want it to be Diablo 3 and will be pissed otherwise... VERY PISSED INDEED!
I figured simply posting the full image earlier wouldn't quite do it. So I took the image, increased the contrast and lightened the highlights to amplify the snout and face in general, while doing so I noticed that you can vaguely make out the top of sharp teeth. I did my best to increase the contrast further in that area, so I have 3 images, 2 separate ones focusing on the snout and the teeth respectively, and a third with a red outline to mark the two suspected areas if they are eluding you guys. CROSSING MY FINGERS AND HOPING!!! DIABLO 3 PLEASE!!!!!!!! For some reason the image link button isn't working, and it takes a million refresh buttons and minutes to upload a single page here!!! High traffic I guess... so I will just post the links to the images for now: http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x6/EmeraldEnigmaPhotos/Untitled-1.jpghttp://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x6/EmeraldEnigmaPhotos/Untitled-12.jpghttp://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x6/EmeraldEnigmaPhotos/Untitled-13.jpg I'm stoked!!!
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That would just serve to differentiate the classes even more if every class had different main stats and items were directly related to their main stats. It also sounds like a more extreme iteration of the hybrid system putting the ratio at 4 allocatable/1 automatic
0
The best way I can think of avoiding cookie cutter stat builds is to simply give stats more meaning. Give players more incentive other then using equipment to put points in Strength and Dex. Give players a reason to invest in Mana instead of just getting more mana and faster regen.
For example:
STRENGTH ~ +% critical strike damage w/heavy melee weapons, +% damage to weapon based skills, +% health regeneration (on top of already in place stat buffs from D2 however they may apply and subject to balance)
DEXTERITY ~ +% attack speed, +% critical strike damage w/ light melee weapons and ranged weapons, +% physical damage resist (on top of already in place stat buffs from D2 however they may apply and subject to balance)
VITALITY ~ carry current buffs from D2 over however they may apply and subject to balance
ENERGY ~ +% spell damage, +% increased faster cast rate, +% magic damage resist
Just made these off the top of my head, and they would definitely give players more incentive to allocate their points more liberally across all attributes for ALL classes. That was the main problem in D2, stats were not important enough.
I agree, if they decided to implement the hybrid system, I would also definitely say 2/3 is the way to go.
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I apologize in advance for the giant wall of text, but please take the time to read through and contribute to this thread if the recent news of stat auto-allocation is important to you!
This thread was reiterated from battle.net (same person, similar account name) and posted here to help inform the community of the problem so members of multiple communities could form objective points of view on this subject and see both sides of the argument, but more importantly, to help find a middle ground where EVERYONE will be satisfied, including the developers!
http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=10972021570&sid=3000&pageNo=1
For those who are not aware, stat points are currently allocated automatically and the player has no control over where these points are placed. Everything is pre-determined based on class.
Source: http://www.diii.net/blog/comments/exclusive-jay-wilson-interview/
Second paragraph
Lets start on a positive note.
Jay Wilson, according to the interview, stated that this helps development on items as they will be able to predict the attributes of characters at certain levels and it puts more emphasis on items giving stat points for your attribute customization.
It takes away the necessity for level requirements.There were plenty of times when, in D2, you found a decent item that was useful immediately, but you'd be neglecting your Str and, even though you met the level requirements, you couldn't use it. By the time you gained enough levels and earned enough points to use it, the item was already obsolete. That's what they really want to avoid: the player missing out on a bunch of immediately useful items just because they'd been neglecting a stat.
Instead of adding level requirements to items, they'll just require X amount of a certain stat. Because all Barbs will, for example, hit 52 Str by level 20, they'll be able to use it then, whereas Witch Doctors and Wizards will need to wait until 25 or 30 before they have enough Str to use it.
It shifts focus from attributes to skills in character customization.
Promotes coop; You'll know what stats other players will have, and so it's easier to find a suitable coop companion.
I can't think of anything else that could be considered positive, so lets go to the theoretical negatives.
I'm going to be referring to pre-LoD when referring to Diablo2 game play, because essentially with the onset of runewords, and the anni/torch, attributes became obsolete and were generic over ALL character classes. (min str, no mana, all vita, maybe some dex) However, pre-patch and pre-LoD attributes were a key part of character customization as you could build a sorc that focused on energy shield, which meant almost all mana and minimal vitality. (it was OP, but that's not the point) You could also make a melee sorc, where it was viable in early patches as game balance wasn't based on LoD itemization, which meant, for this build, crazy str/dex vita which doesn't happen anymore. This is something that a lot of people aren't taking into consideration! Attributes became a broken mechanic after the LoD, it was far more useful pre-expansion and has a lot of room to be reiterated and applied to Diablo3 in a new and compelling way! Anyways, back to the analyzing.
- The first problem that comes to mind is character customization is exactly what made Diablo3's predecessors successful, and that's what is being hurt by the implementation of this mechanic as it takes away control from the player, essentially, dictating how they will develop their character. It was that aspect that had players coming back again and again over the years just to make a new build or try out something new and attributes were a BIG part of that.
- The other aspect that quickly becomes apparent is the limitations of itemization for characters to use. What I mean is, because characters have pre-planned stats that when you reach the highest level, there will be item types that your character might not be able to use.
Hypothetical example; I think we can be fairly certain that the Wizard isn't going to be a strength based character by any means. If this is the case, late game, can we hope to be able to use upper tier heavy armor? If there is an item that might significantly benefit a build but is unusable due to pre-allocated stat limitations, that is going to be severely detrimental to the game experience.
It seems like a minor thing, maybe, but it has the potential to be a HUGE part of the game.
Other negatives that come to mind include, as stated before, an oversimplified experience taking away from one of the Diablo franchises greatest redeeming qualities.
By shifting itemization focus slightly from more unique and compelling stats like skills, crushing blow, open wounds, resists, faster cast rate, etc, it puts too much emphasis on stats, as they were already important in itemization before pre-allocated stats.
The last thing that comes to mind is it creates a world of mediocrity within the base of each character. When all characters have a base that is identical to all characters of the same class, it's like running around with a bunch of clones where the only thing separating you from your playmates is the armor you're wearing and the skills you're using.
With all that said, I think, despite my clear bias against the mechanic, there is merit in both aspects. If there wasn't, the development team wouldn't be using it right now.
The key thing is there must be some level of customization for stats as, after reading about the enchant skill for the Wizard, I personally want to make a melee Wizard with Slow time and teleport (striking runes and all that jazz). However the fact that my character might not have enough strength to use equipment that would ultimately make the class viable or representative to the image I want to portray, it becomes very apparent that this mechanic is of major concern for those, like me, that will want to explore obscure and abstract builds.
A compromise would be the best way to go I think. Complete control ultimately ends up with generic cookie cutter formulas for character building (as was evident in Diablo2:LoD) if done poorly and absolutely no control will most likely end up taking away from the versatility of character customization and the overall Diablo experience.
What that compromise is? I don't know, I'm no developer or programmer. I just hope the development finds some sort of middle ground.
Mentioned possible solutions/compromises
Splitting auto allocated points and allocatable points upon level up.
This is the best of the compromises presented so far. In fact, I think it could work even better then Diablo2's stat allocation system that gave players total freedom.
If we want to look at why this mechanic we first have to know the numbers in play;
In Diablo2 you got 5 points per level and leveled up 98 times (Starting at level 1 meant you didn't gain any stats for that level and 99 is the max: 99-1=98 total levels gained) therefore you you gained a total of 490 stat points by leveling up 5 for each of the Lam Esens Tome quest in Normal/Nightmare/Hell difficulties.
Which means in Diablo2 you got a total of 505 points to distribute as you saw fit.
Now in Diablo3, we know you will be able to level up to 100, so that's one more set of 5 points we can give to the total stat pool in Diablo3's endgame.
So, aside from quests, we currently know there will be 495 points in Diablo3 assuming each level similarly distributes 5 stat points like in Diablo2.
Before I get into how dividing the points effects the stat allocation mechanic for the better, I will reiterate what the development team has stated is their reason for implementing this mechanic.
- They want to regulate stat allocation so that they can organize itemization based on predicted class level restrictions and base stat projections.
(basically what it boils down to.)
So, by splitting up stat points per level, here's what happens:
When you give a player 2 points to allocate per level it accumulates to 198 total points to spend wherever you want end game which is MORE then enough to customize your character and make up for any lack of a stat that may occur as a result of the automatic stat allocation. This leaves the development team 297 points to distribute and give them a very solid base for class predictions and itemization organization. REMEMBER, there will most likely be quests similar to Lam Esens Tome that will give you stats to distribute so I doubt 198 would be a problem. You can probably expect the number to be closer to 220 or 225 roughly.
OR
When you give a player 3 points to allocate per level it turns into 297 points to place as you see fit. Now, this still leaves 198 points for the blizzard staff to place under the guidelines of the auto-allocation system giving them a base to project what minimum there will be within the community regarding stats. However it is not quite as effective as the 2/3 ratio stated above.
This system would actually give the development team even MORE room to create compelling itemization options within the game as, by giving them a base, they can further expand on their knowledge of the possible items by knowing how far to raise or lower requirements based on what limitations already exist within the class bases which would similarly give players more options for creating unique and interesting builds that otherwise wouldn't be possible.
Personally, I would see the implementation of this mechanic (either 2/3 or 3/2 stat points) as a major step in the right direction and a positive iteration on the Diablo2 stat allocation system.
Quest rewards that would give you stat points.
Quests like Lam Esen's tome would be nice; you would need quite a few of these quests, though, to make it worthwhile being able to spend points where you wanted to.
Currently I would imagine this is already implemented however as a singular way to customize characters statistics I do not believe it would be enough. Only because a character with a sever detriment to a particular stat probably won't be able to make up for that disadvantage through quest stats alone, and if it did become a common reward, one could argue that it would give the game a feeling of mediocrity in that too many quests would give this reward if it was to be made viable. I believe 2-3 quests can be expected (not including Normal/Nightmare/Hell, so a total of 6-9 skill quests estimated) roughly given the projected quest prediction (I think they said something like 12 or so quests per act, give or take a few? Can't remember where, I'll have to source it later.)
To simply reiterate the stat allocation system by giving more compelling attribute effects to stat points to give players more incentive to place points in different statistics.
This is something I hope they do regardless of whatever system they settle on.
Feel free to discuss your concerns here if I forgot to mention anything but this thread is created for searching for a compromise as I believe, given the effect of the art controversy petition and it's utter lack of effect, that is the best thing we can hope for IF we can suggest solutions instead of simply complaining concerning aspects we disagree with.
Also, feel free to offer an objective opinion and discuss currently suggested compromises.
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Yeah, your probably right, still, if all the whinoes are gonna unite to bitch about something the moment they see it, I'm gonna try and support Blizzard for doing a stand up job on making the game. It looks amazing IMO and those who agree with the opinion should let Blizzard know just the same.
If your referring to the petition, I said I wasn't the author.
If your referring to the thread, meh, the more the merrier. No one cares who was first, only that the opinion is spread and voiced.
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Here is a link to the petition if you support the current artistic direction of Diablo3:
http://www.petitiononline.com/d3color/petition.html
Here is what is outlined in the petition:
I felt very compelled to create this petition in response to the recent and very vocal requests from some members of the Diablo fans community who are, in a word, 'disappointed' with Diablo 3's current artistic direction.
This petition is created to represent those of us, whom I feel are great in number, who genuinely believe that Blizzard should continue to do what they are doing with Diablo 3's art direction and not bend to the wishes of those who would wish to see Diablo 3's beauty and vibrancy reduced to shades of gray and brown.
Likewise, I feel compelled to state that we the players very much enjoy the stylistic and silhouette-heavy art of Diablo 3, because it lends much character to the game and allows us, the players, to be able to make out distinct qualities of each individual character and monster within the game.
Many of those who complain forget that Diablo and Diablo 2 were not without color. The vast majority of the game consisted of rich colors that allowed the darker areas, such as the Durance of Hate in Act 3 of Diablo 2 to stand out as one of the more 'Gothic horror' locations, in contrast the verdant jungles of Kurast. Spells were extremely colorful, and many of the game's unique locales were undeniably vibrant.
The current art direction within the game, as depicted in the trailers is completely immersive due to its distinct shapes, and the tones and vibrancy of its colors lend a truly 'epic', and 'fantasy' feel to the game expanding an already wonderful setting. To see all of this changed would be a great shame to a great many of us.
There are a great many of us out there who are disappointed in the complete lack of vibrance and the abundance of boring shades of gray and brown in many recent titles, and it is a breath of fresh air for us to see Blizzard's art direction with Diablo 3.
We therefore ask Blizzard to keep doing what it's doing, and retain the game's current art and style direction. We have the full measure of faith in Blizzard to deliver a fantastic game with fantastic art direction, in every sense of the term 'fantastic'.
Common arguments:
Q: The Diablo series was always dark, gloomy, muddy and dirty in every single instance.
A: Hyperbole. While Diablo 1 may have been darker than its sequel due to its lack of locations, it nonetheless featured some very bright, and visually vibrant locations like Tristram itself and the Caves.
Diablo 2 had many bright and vibrant locations in every single Act of the game. Act 1 had a gothic monastery with vibrant colors. Act 2 consisted of a brightly lit desert with an abundance of cacti, Act 3 had colorful jungles and vibrant step-pyramid tombs. Act 5 had crystalline formations and rivers of ice.
Q: Being colorful destroys the game's immersion and 'gothic feel'.
A: Gothic Cathedrals are filled with vibrant colors, due to the heavy use of stained glass windows and vibrant furnishings, yet still possess a very 'dark' and surreal quality. Colors are only one aspect of the mix. Gothic horror movies make heavy use of rich twilight gradients and colorful clothing on everyone who isn't a vampire.
Diablo 3's Art is currently:
* Stylish, giving Diablo 3 its own character and personality, allowing it to stand out from the crowd of brown and grey games, or 'realistic' (e.g. boring) looking games.
* Hand-crafted, and lovingly so. Much like Josh Kirby's art in the covers of the Discworld novels, it elicits a highly 'fantasy feel' that feels like a breath of fresh air.
* Not monotonous. The use of inviting colours, contours, tones, vibrance, and animations are some of the game's major strengths. Makes the game accessible and playable for a long period of time.
* The use of colors allow for a wide variety of settings and locations, away from the mundane worlds of greys and browns.
* Vibrant colors and a wide variety of locations do not prohibit the game from having 'dark gothic' locations within the game. Diablo 2 consisted mainly of vibrant locations, but that didn't prevent the Durance of Hate from being a part of the game.
It is our opinion, therefore, that the art direction of Diablo 3 should remain as it is, because we have full faith and confidence in Blizzard Entertainment's ability to deliver a truly compelling, and involving game.
_________
Personally, I'm so sick of listening to children b!tch and moan over the colours in a DEMO! For crying out loud, if you want to cry over the artistic direction, AT THE VERY LEAST wait for them to release more screen shots to confirm your suspicion!
With the Starcraft2 criticism it should be noted that they at least had a chance to release a decent amount of screen shots before the fan base started moaning, too an improved result, with both the siege tanks and the palette, but this is absurd! I say give Blizzard, whom has more f***ing experience developing amazing games then... let me see... any of you, a chance to at least show what they've been working on for the past 4 years.
Let's try and keep the maturity above middle school, PLEASE! The last thing I want to find out is the majority of the people I'll be playing with, when Diablo3 comes out, haven't even started puberty.
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w00t! Thanks for the confirmation! (I'm unable to watch right now so scourging the internet for info is rather daunting... yet I'm still doing it... :P)
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I'm not sure how to word this... the areas in D2 all had random variations that were always different when you loaded a new game via Battle.net, will this feature be implemented in Diablo3 or will the random map generation be scrapped for a more fluid world feel?
Or better yet, will there be more of a marriage between the two options? A compromise?
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After seeing the post with the Viking Compass, it is clearly just that, but I find the similarity between the two striking.
Regardless, all we can really deduce from this image is that there are eyes behind the ice, no point in getting worked up, it'll be revealed tomorrow, we don't really have anything more than what we had yesterday, except for the LOST numbers, that is interesting. Along with the Harbinger, well, it appears the end of the world is coming!
Makes me think Diablo, but lets also take into consideration the Xel'Naga for Starcraft? PERHAPS it is a teaser portraying their awakening and how they will be invovled in the Starcraft game... and the game announcement has nothing to do with the teaser. On second thought... that's not possible, but it was a different take on the clues.
Just so we aren't so set on only seeing DIABLO hints and such all over the place. The Harbinger, the numbers 4 8 15 16 23 42 and their relative calculation to the end of all existence could easily pertain to Starcraft - remember what Zeratul said not long ago in a cinematic released for Starcraft 2? hehehe seem's kinda relevant, no?
Just my two cents. Not to give the wrong idea, I desperately want it to be Diablo 3 and will be pissed otherwise... VERY PISSED INDEED!