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Now that we all know Doppelganger hates me because he can't handle what is ahead, lets get back on a REAL conversation. Maybe I would stick to it as well if people would stop this "I don't want respecs" QQ business, Blizzard intends to implement it and if they don't, I will live with that as you will live with it if they DO implement respecs. The point I was making was that your discussion about "No respecs" was irrelevant now that we have confirmed respecs, that is until Blizzard happens to step back and tell us they just won't work in Diablo 3. This topic is clearly about the confirmation of respecs, and I think that even mods would agree that "QQ no respecs" is clearly counterproductive and off topic. Sorry if I used harsh phrases to depict the reality of what is coming for us, but people need to leave their old cryfests behind and make way for Diablo 3 w/ respecs. Its a shame that all so many people cannot maturely handle that for what it is at this point: reality.

Now lets get back to the real subject here. Since respecs at this point WILL be an addition to Diablo 3, let us find a way to have respecs without taking all the fun out of the game, something some people around here unfortunately can't be open minded enough to fathom. None of us want to rain on anyone else's fun, and if people have fun rolling a ton of characters, let it be, but don't require it for everybody. How is that fair to the gaming community as a whole? Diablo 2 mainly became all about "hardcore" gamers, and it tended to ruin the fun for many of us and our friends...

Edit: Missed a whole page of topic before I reposted XD. That is no good.

Personally, after reading Ivaron's post, I tend to lean toward a softcore/nonladder only method. Respecing in Ladder and Hardcore would surely not be fair to the more deciated hardcore gamers. By allowing single player and softcore mode players to respec, it will give the casual gamer just what he needs to have fun. Casual gamers aren't by any means trying to be THE BEST, we just want to have fun and know we can complete the FULL game (including Hell mode), with what we have, and know that we don't have to create multiple characters just because we goofed up on a few talents that would be better spent elsewhere. I personally even think an experience penalty could be very viable when mixed with this single/softcore only respecs method. It would make the casual game a little more of a challenge, but not so big of a challenge that it would prohibit us from having fun with our friends, the exact thing Blizzard is trying to bring more of into the game.

Quote from "emilemil1" »

Most people are ok with not having respec at all right? It didn't exist in D2 so why would we require it now? If the system turns out bad they can always skip the feature altogether. I think that would be the best solution if the purpose is to teach people about not making mistakes. But if they want to appeal to the WoW crowd and the younger people (which usually makes more mistakes) they should make a respec.

I think you are missing the point Emilemil1... You are saying that the WoW crowd and the younger people are going to be the only ones who make mistakes? That seems fairly biased in my opinion, and pretty small minded of a thing to say. The respec option, limited to a certain type of play style, would appeal to NOT ONLY the WoW crowd and the younger people that you speak of, but the casual gamer who just wants to bash monsters with their friends... Is that too much to ask? There is no need to ruin a challenging game for other people in Ladder and Hardcore modes, but for all of our sakes, please be a little more leniant on things for people who are just playing this game for kicks, as opposed to people such as yourself who are obviously trying to play this game competitively...

Sure, there MUST be rules and restrictions to make competitive gaming harder. Think of it in terms of a sports game as opposed to a video game. When you play a simple game of football with your friends, are you going to be required to play with all of the technicalities? By no means would that be the case, you can play your backyard football however you like. While it is different for a video game, there still needs to be a differentiating factor between people who are trying to play for the sheer fun of the game, and people who are having fun playing the game competitively. The only way we can achieve that is through a more open minded system of respecs with obvious restrictions. Having a single/softcore mode respec system would also allow those players who may not be AS skilled at this game as other to learn more about it easier, thus if a casual gamer were to decide to roll a character on a harder mode (such as ladder or hardcore), they would have a much better idea of what works best for them when going into a mode that would not allow for respecs, thus eliminating the absolute NEED for you to reroll 50 times just to know what works good for you. By all means changing your Ladder or Hardcore spec later on would still be unnacceptable, but going into that mode with a better basis of knowledge would help a few people out. Besides, do you mean to tell me that as soon as Diablo 3 hits shelves you are going to know exactly what build works best for you? I think very few people who played Diablo 2 would agree that their first character made it to the end of the game...

One thing you fail to realize is that I started in Diablo where there wasn't even these stupid talent trees. Do you honestly think I enjoy them in the first place? Does anyone who played the origional Diablo? You can go on and on and on, and oh did I mention on some more about this issue, but the fact is we are having respecs.

What I personally don't think any of you can truly handle is the fact that D3 will not feel exactly like D2, just as D2 never felt the same as origional Diablo beyond the fact that there were classes and armor and such.

When D3 comes out, I have a feeling it will feel SO little like Diablo 2 that half of you are going to cry, bitch out, and go play a different game. Tons of people did that from the Diablo - Diablo 2 transition, and it inevitably will happen again. I personally do not plan on letting that hold me back from having fun.

In the end, its not a question about whether we get respec or not, Blizzard already confirmed it will be implemented, and as knoweldge runs with Blizzard I don't think Bashiok would pull that out of his ass for amusement. The new question has become, when Diablo 3 comes out WITH respecs, are you going to be able to handle it? If not, maybe D3 is not the game for you...

That being said, stop QQing about the existence of respec, the cards are dealt and you WILL be force to either play Diablo 3 the way blizzard sells you it, or you can just FIND A NEW GAME. We all dealt with games changing, and this one is changing just as rapidly as others. Learn to trust Blizzard, maybe the way they are making Diablo 3 you will actually WANT respecs, how do you even know until you have played it for yourself?

Quote from "Equinox" »

Well, I'm graduating this year and I'm going to college in June... lol

To Morden79
Ever took an AP class?

What's up with the drugs and WoW thing? That's just sad... you need to get a grip on yourself. Dropping college > doing drugs.

Yeah, AP Bio my senior year. Never got college credit for that either. There could be a reason why they called our graduation year .08 (referring to Illinois's BAC laws).

As far as drugs and wow, I tended to use them separately, hence why there was so much time out of my life. Now that I think of it, that's probably why I failed that AP class too.

Maybe I just have a person problem XD......

But no, seriously, I have seen people fail college over WoW alone. Don't make that mistake.

Quote from "equinox" »

everyone may follow the "optimal pve setup". Kudos to them ruining their own game. I won't. Xd

but at least this time i won't be afraid of trying out my own builds because i can make myself stuck in nightmare...

can i get an amen?

Whoa whoa whoa! First thing is first, the the guy graduating soon, if you think you are busy now, WAIT TILL COLLEGE. I spent more time on two hours of class a day then I ever spent on 7 hours of class a day in high school. If you plan on making it in college, I suggest you don't do the the things I did: turn to drugs and world of warcraft. Between drugs and world of warcraft, there was no way I was making it into my second year of college, and even if I got rid of one (preferably the drugs), I still probably would not have gotten a 4 year degree...

And as for the world coming to an end.... I only have one good question for that...

(In a goofy Donnie Darko voice) "Why?"

While many people have speculated this "end of the world", I will believe it when I see it. Let 2012 come, if there is an end I am prepared, but I just don't think its viable no matter how much occult, religious, or astronomical speculation you can cram up my arse.

Perhaps I was a noob when I played. I seems a reasonable jesture as I played D2 back when I was like 12-15.... It took me a long time to complete things.

The biggest problem I see when I look at this game now is the ability to have a life on top of this game. Its the biggest reason I hate WoW, and honestly WoW's failure comes with 10 and 25 man content. I guess I just tend to come from a gaming world where ONE character is better than 50 of them.... Perhaps I missed the point of Diablo 2. I will say this, I would not at all have minded rerolling all that much in Diablo 2 had the talent trees not been so darn confusing... Those synergies made things too complicated when I played, and I am so glad they are gone. Perhaps with less confusing talents one such as myself would be less required to respec or even reroll? I just hope that in the end what Blizzard decides on is Golden, much like every other game they have made during my life time (with the possible exception of WoW).

I surely enjoy the idea of no synergies... Actually, for the most part I prefer how WoW talents synergize, indirectly. Indirect synergies would be entirely welcomed, not so much in the same way they are in WoW, but having abilities that help many other abilities, such as "(Instert Weapon Here) Mastery". Indirect synergies would be a blessing, it makes you really think about where your points go to make them work good together, but the direct synergies we know from D2 just got plain our redundant. I feel this would be the same in D3 if the respec system is shotty.

Now that you mention it, another thing comes to mind...

So you played the entire game with ONE choice of talent trees, now you are expected to make ANOTHER (insert class here) just to figure out what is good in the other trees? That leads to a less common basis of what talents are good and what are not.

I have never been a firm believer in "cookie-cutters", but knowledge is power. Having to replay the game 4 times for a character is what you are asking to require if you oppose respecs. You would have to play the game 3 times with each spec to see what is good, and try to make a final spec based on what is the best or funnest for you. Lets not even try to bring Duel specs into the picture, that would be madness.

That being said, Diablo 3 would become just another Diablo 2, where you had to remake characters over and over and over and over again to know what works best. Then by that time you have "mastered" a class after months of playing it, and have like 4 other classes? I would rather know that I can get to the end of the game and retalent my existing character to perfection instead of having to reroll every time I turn around. It would allow the average player with the average time more ability to have fun playing this game instead of wasting their life away or finding a cookie-cutter build just to be viable. Who wants to get to lvl 70 and find out your spec sucks because your new to the game and the only option you have is to reroll? You surely won't find my name on that list....

I personally would like to see a retooled Assassin, with more emphasis on ranged combat instead of that Trap crap. I never caught on to traps, and they didn't feel all that natural. Personally, what I would like to see is something more like the Oblivion assassin, bows and blades, with a little bit of stealth (via skill or magic), quick attacks, and poisons. It would be pretty killer, though I have a feeling many would scream "WOW ROGUE REMAKE"...

Well Timmy, you make an excellent point, Blizzard has changed a lot since then. However, when I refer to Blizzard, I do not refer to Blizzard the company, I refer to the faces behind the name Blizzard. There would be no company if nobody was there to back that company, hence why I refer to them as Blizzard for short.

The main point I am trying to make here is that everything you already know about Diablo could easily come to change. It did going from Diablo to D2, so why would we expect any less going from D2 to D3? If the game changes ENTIRELY and we are not left with an almost exact remake of Diablo 2, will that kill anybody? It happened to EVERYONE who played Diablo, and yet people either stopped playing or continued on. I tend to think that people get too caught up in their own opinions, thinking that in the end they really matter. Blizzard (the faces behind the company) intend to make Diablo 3 exactly how they intend to make it whether you like it or not.

The simple fact is, none of us know how this game will turn out. People speculate being end game by the end of a month. What if that is NOT the case? Even if Diablo 3 doesn't have practically infinite replayability through lack of respecs, do you think that is ACTUALLY fun to 90% of the people who would like to play Diablo? I personally HATED Diablo 2 for the talents and lack of respec LONG before WoW came into the picutre, and I tend to feel the same way to this very day. To me, talent trees themselves ruined Diablo.

As a casual video game player with a life (no offense to hardcore gamers, I just lack the time to do what you do), spending months to get a character high leveled just to find out that my character lacks the ability to complete Hell mode is shameful, as though I wasted my time. Time is money, any time I have could somehow be spent else where. For that simple fact, I cherish the idea of respecing a character that I spent my precious time playing...

Edit: And to add to remark on EvilStarship's comment, I don't even personally think dropping your level to respec would be THAT bad, assuming they implement a "show talents before confirmation" ability such as the one WoW implemented with 3.1, we don't want to have to drop our levels 3 different times because of a simple wrong click.... At the same time, it could be hindering, however I personally tend to trust the devs on this decision, for they are after all the ones making the game, don't you think we should just kinda let THEM decide what the game will be (for the most part)?

I hate to mention this, especially this being my second post, but I think everyone on this forum is too wrapped up on what is "Diablo". Anyone who says "Respecing would not be Diablo" makes a fool of themselves in my eyes every time I see it.

I started playing Diablo when a second Diablo was a joke of a notion. Back in those days, there was NO TALENT TREES. Though I quit Diablo long before Diablo 2 came out, were I part of the D2 discussion (much as we are the D3 discussion), I would have utmost and entirely shunned the idea of a talent tree to begin with. In the first Diablo, you did have some stupid tree telling you what you can and cannot do. In fact, all three classes were capable of of all types of combat, however each class was stronger in one particular style.

The point I am making is that, though at the time I would have shunned the idea of talent trees to begin with (for the same fact that it woudln't feel "Diablo"), it actually turned out pretty darned fun. That being said, I think we ALL need to stfu about what is "Diablo" and what is not. That is not for us to decide, that is for BLIZZARD to decide. The day Blizzard hires you, then you can decide what is "Diablo" or not, but until then spare us the head ache. It does little for us all, respec is coming and Bashiok confirmed it. If respecs are not "Diablo" enough for you, than maybe you are the one who doesn't know what "Diablo" really is.

That being said, I think we should all accept what Blizz is offering us. Diablo 2 changed the way the game was played forever in comparison to Diablo, and if Diablo 3 changes the whole game again, do you really think it will mean that the game will be any less fun?