Ok, so those wanting an even bigger pvp experience, let me ask you this. If they came out with a SC3, and I started getting mad because I want them to pay more attention to the PVE (first player) aspect, and started saying that the PVE aspect has always been a huge chunk of the endgame, wouldn't that seem ridiculous? SC was made with a cool storyline and PVE, but it's PVP focused, you can't argue that.
Now reverse; D3 is a PVE focused game. Yes it has a PVP part, which they've given a LOT more attention to this time around, but the game, the end game, any part of the game has been PVE, another point you can't argue, well mostly because the developers themselves MADE the game for PVE.
D1 had ganking
D2 had griefing
D3 will have multiple arenas, game modes, a (while maybe not visible) internal ladder to better match you against an opponent.
I'm confused as to what the argument is. If you like pvp in a mostly, 95% (made up) PVE game, and they are putting in a lot of options for pvp'ers, why any complaining?
I understand that and even said in previous posts that I understand it. Does that change my opinion of wanting it in the game anyways? Nope. Pushing it towards an eSport is good for the game and even if Blizzard is pressured to make it an eSport or do anything past ladders doesn't matter. There's already pressure to make it an eSport. How about Blizz just grants us this wish and then they can go back to ignoring the PvP community. I'd be happy with that.
I totally understand you now, it seems like you don't know what a proper esport is. You can't "make" something an esport and then ignore it, that's not how it works at all. An esport is maintained, constantly balanced over every single detail (which is IMPOSSIBLE in a game with this much customization). The pressure to make it an esport is VERY low, it's just from the noisy pvpers, several polls show this, and Jay has said he'll never make it an esport, never, ever. Blizz has sc2 and wow arena as esports.
What you want is some more support for pvp, not an esport, well you might want esport, but I hope even you realize that takes an equal amount of time as learning all known numbers in pi. This game is too customized for an esport.
You didn't read what I said at all lol holy.. I said I DON'T CARE IF IT'S AN ESPORT. I gotta use caps because people seem to have this flying over their heads. I just want a ladder system that records your teams record and for them not to have this "fuck you pvp guy" mentality that Blizzard has. That's it. PvP'ers are part of the community as well and I think the PvP community is a lot bigger then people seem to realize. I know there's polls taken etc.. But TBH it seems like everyone here is a WoW MMO PvE Carebear that's moved onto D3.. No offence, but that's really how I see it lol. I literally know no one who is happy about Blizzard's choice to not support PvP in D3. All of my online friends are against it and all of my IRL friends are against it. It might just be the hundreds of people I'ved talked to about Diablo 2 with that loved PvP a lot but I doubt it..
Ok, so those wanting an even bigger pvp experience, let me ask you this. If they came out with a SC3, and I started getting mad because I want them to pay more attention to the PVE (first player) aspect, and started saying that the PVE aspect has always been a huge chunk of the endgame, wouldn't that seem ridiculous? SC was made with a cool storyline and PVE, but it's PVP focused, you can't argue that.
You can get mad at the PvE aspect of that game because SC2 campaign sucked and I wish they put a lot more effort into it. I would 100% agree and back you up with that point that they completely lacked storyline in their solo player game and it's not up to par of what it should be.
But wait wait wait.. End game SC? No, that doesn't work for this arguement because it's not an RPG or MMO game. They are completely different game types. You just seem to be ignoring the fact that PvP WAS a big deal in D2 and people who PvPed in D2 are feeling really let down about D3 because it's not up to par of what it should be. Is Diablo a PvE focused for game the majority of the game? Yes. Will PvP be a large part of the end game for players in D3? Absolutely. Will it be supported the way it should be for the D2 to D3 community? Not at all.
I understand that and even said in previous posts that I understand it. Does that change my opinion of wanting it in the game anyways? Nope. Pushing it towards an eSport is good for the game and even if Blizzard is pressured to make it an eSport or do anything past ladders doesn't matter. There's already pressure to make it an eSport. How about Blizz just grants us this wish and then they can go back to ignoring the PvP community. I'd be happy with that.
I totally understand you now, it seems like you don't know what a proper esport is. You can't "make" something an esport and then ignore it, that's not how it works at all. An esport is maintained, constantly balanced over every single detail (which is IMPOSSIBLE in a game with this much customization). The pressure to make it an esport is VERY low, it's just from the noisy pvpers, several polls show this, and Jay has said he'll never make it an esport, never, ever. Blizz has sc2 and wow arena as esports.
What you want is some more support for pvp, not an esport, well you might want esport, but I hope even you realize that takes an equal amount of time as learning all known numbers in pi. This game is too customized for an esport.
You didn't read what I said at all lol holy.. I said I DON'T CARE IF IT'S AN ESPORT. I gotta use caps because people seem to have this flying over their heads. I just want a ladder system that records your teams record and for them not to have this "fuck you pvp guy" mentality that Blizzard has. That's it. PvP'ers are part of the community as well and I think the PvP community is a lot bigger then people seem to realize. I know there's polls taken etc.. But TBH it seems like everyone here is a WoW MMO PvE Carebear that's moved onto D3.. No offence, but that's really how I see it lol. I literally know no one who is happy about Blizzard's choice to not support PvP in D3. All of my online friends are against it and all of my IRL friends are against it. It might just be the hundreds of people I'ved talked to about Diablo 2 with that loved PvP a lot but I doubt it..
You realize that you are contradicting yourself? First you say that Blizzard should appease the PvPers and turn D3 into an eSport. Then you say you don't care if it is. And Blizzard realizes that PvPers are part of the community. They didn't scrap the Arenas. All they did was delay them until after release. And that is only because D3 is a PvE game. And there is no need to calling those of us that play PvE "WoW Carebears". Just because we have different opinions doesn't mean you can throw insults at us and think saying no offense will make it better. And finally, the reason why you don't see people happy for the PvP delay is because you are surrounded by people with similarities to you, which is PvP. Many of my friends that play RPGs aren't really PvP players and if they had an opinion, they would probably be glad about PvP delay. But sadly they don't play D3 so they don't give a shit.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I don't always burn. But when I do, I use hellfire.
Ok, so those wanting an even bigger pvp experience, let me ask you this. If they came out with a SC3, and I started getting mad because I want them to pay more attention to the PVE (first player) aspect, and started saying that the PVE aspect has always been a huge chunk of the endgame, wouldn't that seem ridiculous? SC was made with a cool storyline and PVE, but it's PVP focused, you can't argue that.
You can get mad at the PvE aspect of that game because SC2 campaign sucked and I wish they put a lot more effort into it. I would 100% agree and back you up with that point that they completely lacked storyline in their solo player game and it's not up to par of what it should be.
But wait wait wait.. End game SC? No, that doesn't work for this arguement because it's not an RPG or MMO game. They are completely different game types. You just seem to be ignoring the fact that PvP WAS a big deal in D2 and people who PvPed in D2 are feeling really let down about D3 because it's not up to par of what it should be. Is Diablo a PvE focused for game the majority of the game? Yes. Will PvP be a large part of the end game for players in D3? Absolutely. Will it be supported the way it should be for the D2 to D3 community? Not at all.
I'm confused when you say 'will it be supported the way it should be for D2 to D3 community? Not at all.' How exactly was it supported in D2? If you took the pvp features from D2 and D3 and compared them, you would have arena with multiple maps, multiple pvp modes, and an internal ranking ladder, compared to... griefing in D2.
What I'm saying and what I THINK a lot of people here are trying to say is, D3 IS getting a lot of pvp attention, without going overboard. Most of us who are arguing this don't want to see this suddenly get turned into a huge balancing act, all the way down to PVP only items to whatever other extreme it could have.
I agree, PVP will be a big endgame, it's the alternative to farming, and I will defiantly be playing it, a lot. But I also think that D3 has more than enough for pvp attention, without causing what I said above to happen. But I'm still confused as to why I'm hearing that D3 hasn't gotten the pvp attention that it deserves 'like' D2 did, because D1 and D2 had NO pvp attention. Hell even the ladders were for PVE.
Lololololol All this discussion because these pvp kids feeling entitled to having super pvp mode in an almost completely pve based game that hasn't even been released yet.
I guess you'd rather they delay the game another two months until it's ready to roll out with the pve game that you have to play through 3 times before you can even start competitive pvp anyway.
The D2 "pvp" was just LOL_PKyou has joined the game, he goes hostile and kills you or vice versa when your goal wasn't even to pvp in the first place because D2 was a pve game... just like D3 is. They're just feeding you baby birds by even giving you *any* pvp support. BE GRATEFUL
I did not mean to offend anyone, and by "joining random games and killing everyone" I meant public duel games, not necessarily "NKing" and "BMing" everyone, but more like 1v7, as that option was always fun and gave a rush.
So I guess what I am saying here is FFA is definitely needed.
The "Arena", well I guess the easier way for blizzard to allow stuff like iron mans ect would be to allow world PVP in a private/public game ("d2 style"), as I doubt we will get options for for arena matches like: game time, FFA? and access to content.
I am not only arguing in behalf of the PvPers, but also, the MANY players that will be coming from different games to play this game, like SC2, WoW, GW, ect, players from pretty much every game will be picking up this game. We need to keep in mind, this game shouldn't be tailor made for a relatively small population on hardcore D2 players (PvPers and PvMers alike). This game should be able to cater for a much broader audience, of millions from numerous games, that have many different tastes.
Right now, IMO, as it is right now - outside of the PvM game play (which is great, don't get me wrong I like PvM too, and have a legit 99 on d2) - the game is a little lacking. No private channels? No guilds/clans? No game lists?
[...] Right now, IMO, as it is right now - outside of the PvM game play (which is great, don't get me wrong I like PvM too, and have a legit 99 on d2) - the game is a little lacking. No private channels? No guilds/clans? No game lists?
I'm curious, what would guilds/clans accomplish that a friends list can't in this game? Just wondering.
1. Being able to meat new friends - joining a guild will allow you to meet say more people, and people that are higher lvl than you that you wouldn't necessarily be able to interact with if you just joined public games. Do you want that super cool armor that you can't create because you are too low lvl, and because your friends are low lvl as well, well in a guild say a lvl 60 may have the recipe and make it for you.
2. Representation, the whole social aspect of being on a clan/guild is very appealing to many people who emmerce themselves in a game.
3. Chat - a guild chat, or private channels accessible in game would be very convenient.
As there have been too many posts since I last posted, I'm going to avoid quoting everyone...
Clans/Guilds: I actually agree that this feature would be a good one to have. Its not really a PvP specific feature and would be very nice to be able to have an in-game representation for those various clans that will exist anyways.
eSport: Elementz keeps bringing up that I focus on eSport. The reason for this is that if you don't care if its an eSport or not, then this whole topic is moot. Ranking will not be added unless the game were to be focused towards being an eSport, Blizzard has outright stated this. So, to ask for eSport features means Blizzard would have to balance the game as an eSport. As that would adversely affect the rest of the game, its frowned upon by the majority of the D3 community.
Duels: Jay Wilson said that we wants a way for people to have duels, even if its just going to a specific spot in the world where you get flagged while in that place. I think an area like this would offer a good way to have the D2 PvP aspect without it affecting those that don't want it. Make a place in the world that flags everyone that walks into the area. Then people could setup their own rules for dueling, etc...and Blizzard doesn't need to support it any further.
The last point I want to make is that a lot of us that enjoy PvE also like casual PvP. Calling us 'carebears' etc is not a really good way to sway us to your side. In fact, all you achieve by using insults like that is drive us to disagree more. That whole elitist attitude is a major reason why casual players dislike PvP players. If PvP players could just PvP and still be respectful of players that do not PvP, I'm sure the casual crowd would be more respectful of the PvP desires.
The reality of the situation is this, however...
- Diablo 3 is nearly finished.
- eSport level balance is nearly impossible with the current design of the game
- They've publicly announced that they will stay away from eSport features.
- Development would be split between PvP and PvE if PvP became a major focus.
- PvP has never been a major focus in the Diablo series.
Honestly, they could change their stance on PvP and eSports between now and when PvP is released. Due to the amount of changes that would have to be made to make it a reality (as well as the amount of resources), it isn't likely. They'd be diverting a large amount of their development team in order to make this happen, hurting the PvE gameplay as a result. The majority of their players are primarily PvE players as well, making it a rather bad business decision to focus heavily on eSport PvP.
Because of all of this, I can say with some confidence that we'll never see eSport features in Diablo 3. It could happen, but there a lot of reasons against it.
As there have been too many posts since I last posted, I'm going to avoid quoting everyone...
Clans/Guilds: I actually agree that this feature would be a good one to have. Its not really a PvP specific feature and would be very nice to be able to have an in-game representation for those various clans that will exist anyways.
eSport: Elementz keeps bringing up that I focus on eSport. The reason for this is that if you don't care if its an eSport or not, then this whole topic is moot. Ranking will not be added unless the game were to be focused towards being an eSport, Blizzard has outright stated this. So, to ask for eSport features means Blizzard would have to balance the game as an eSport. As that would adversely affect the rest of the game, its frowned upon by the majority of the D3 community.
Duels: Jay Wilson said that we wants a way for people to have duels, even if its just going to a specific spot in the world where you get flagged while in that place. I think an area like this would offer a good way to have the D2 PvP aspect without it affecting those that don't want it. Make a place in the world that flags everyone that walks into the area. Then people could setup their own rules for dueling, etc...and Blizzard doesn't need to support it any further.
The last point I want to make is that a lot of us that enjoy PvE also like casual PvP. Calling us 'carebears' etc is not a really good way to sway us to your side. In fact, all you achieve by using insults like that is drive us to disagree more. That whole elitist attitude is a major reason why casual players dislike PvP players. If PvP players could just PvP and still be respectful of players that do not PvP, I'm sure the casual crowd would be more respectful of the PvP desires.
The reality of the situation is this, however...
- Diablo 3 is nearly finished.
- eSport level balance is nearly impossible with the current design of the game
- They've publicly announced that they will stay away from eSport features.
- Development would be split between PvP and PvE if PvP became a major focus.
- PvP has never been a major focus in the Diablo series.
Honestly, they could change their stance on PvP and eSports between now and when PvP is released. Due to the amount of changes that would have to be made to make it a reality (as well as the amount of resources), it isn't likely. They'd be diverting a large amount of their development team in order to make this happen, hurting the PvE gameplay as a result. The majority of their players are primarily PvE players as well, making it a rather bad business decision to focus heavily on eSport PvP.
Because of all of this, I can say with some confidence that we'll never see eSport features in Diablo 3. It could happen, but there a lot of reasons against it.
First off, don't want you on PvP'ers side. Your flawed theories and blind nuthuggery would do nothing but bad for the community.
Secondly, rankings do not require "esport" level balancing. It is a very simple K/D ratio, that is very easily implemented. Will people complain cause they suck to bad to make a strategy? Sure, but they won't complain anymore then kids who can't seem to get past Lord De seis or the lighting monsters.
Thirdly, again we do not want Blizzard's full support. We just want the very basic tools and options we had before to where we could craft and make PvP what it should be. Instead we get this secluded arena BS that has everyones hands tied. It's like giving power to a person who doesn't want it and just lets it rot.
AGAIN, PvP does not affect PvM anyway. I don't see how you believe it will or does, because it does not. It is very simple to code skills to work differently for PvM and PvP, it is very simple to allow duel games and non duel games, it is very simple to do everything we ask for...and yet blind nuthuggers like you seem to keep resorting to "esports" ha.
First off, don't want you on PvP'ers side. Your flawed theories and blind nuthuggery would do nothing but bad for the community.
Secondly, rankings do not require "esport" level balancing. It is a very simple K/D ratio, that is very easily implemented. Will people complain cause they suck to bad to make a strategy? Sure, but they won't complain anymore then kids who can't seem to get past Lord De seis or the lighting monsters.
Thirdly, again we do not want Blizzard's full support. We just want the very basic tools and options we had before to where we could craft and make PvP what it should be. Instead we get this secluded arena BS that has everyones hands tied. It's like giving power to a person who doesn't want it and just lets it rot.
AGAIN, PvP does not affect PvM anyway. I don't see how you believe it will or does, because it does not. It is very simple to code skills to work differently for PvM and PvP, it is very simple to allow duel games and non duel games, it is very simple to do everything we ask for...and yet blind nuthuggers like you seem to keep resorting to "esports" ha.
It is not very simple. If it were very simple, they would have been able to balance it in WoW which has far less combinations than D3 does. Yes they did okay in WoW but during the PvP focus period, PvE skills and abilities were being messed with.
And the point you keep missing; and I am going to phrase this as simply as possible; is that time and money are a limited factor.
Time spent adding to PvP and money spent on PvP aspects (I.E paying people to design them) is time taken a way from PvE content and PvE aspects. This is fact.
If you have a team of 20 people and send 5 of them to work on PvP full-time, that is now 15 people working on PvE. And then say they decide to go further and take another 5 away. Now you have 10 people working on each and the content comes out slower for both aspects of the game because the focus is being split.
(Of course blizzard deals with bigger numbers, but this is still a valid point),
Again; most of us want PvP; but we want it to be fun and jump in /jump out to compliment our PvE/PvM playing and not become it's own separate thing. As has been stated a multitude of times and different ways; go play other games if you want a competitive PvP experience.
Man I wish there was a game to use as an example here...oh wait Guild Wars. I believe their PvM content remained UNHARMED and their PvP content remained dynamic....darn I wish I knew who developed that game series...oh yea EX Diablo developers...damn...must be hard to do.
Man I wish there was a game to use as an example here...oh wait Guild Wars. I believe their PvM content remained UNHARMED and their PvP content remained dynamic....darn I wish I knew who developed that game series...oh yea EX Diablo developers...damn...must be hard to do.
Yes and what genre of game is Guild wars? Hmm let me think?!? Oh yeah... A MMORPG!
And besides, guild Wars PvE content wasn't that interesting because the game was largely a PvP focused game. To be honest what's considered good is subjective, but I for one found GW1 to be a pretty dull game...
Except Guild Wars is not an MMO. It is about as much an MMO as Diablo is really. So their PvE content didn't tickle your fancy...who gives a damn? They balanced all of their classes skills for PvE and PvP, YEARS AGO. You are telling me a feat these ex employees did years ago tops what current Blizzard can do?
Man I wish there was a game to use as an example here...oh wait Guild Wars. I believe their PvM content remained UNHARMED and their PvP content remained dynamic....darn I wish I knew who developed that game series...oh yea EX Diablo developers...damn...must be hard to do.
Yes and what genre of game is Guild wars? Hmm let me think?!? Oh yeah... A MMORPG!
And besides, guild Wars PvE content wasn't that interesting because the game was largely a PvP focused game. To be honest what's considered good is subjective, but I for one found GW1 to be a pretty dull game...
Except Guild Wars is not an MMO. It is about as much an MMO as Diablo is really. So their PvE content didn't tickle your fancy...who gives a damn? They balanced all of their classes skills for PvE and PvP, YEARS AGO. You are telling me a feat these ex employees did years ago tops what current Blizzard can do?
GW tends to be classified as an MMO. And no. I was playing WoW at the time which had good PvE content that was updated and remained fun. GW neglected solid PvE updates to make a balanced game... This is exactly what PvE players are worried about...
PvE content getting neglected to make a PvP game.
Look; Let's just agree to disagree and end it. Ultimately none of this matters as I am pretty sure most of us are getting the type of game we want. If you are that upset over the direction go discuss it on the official forums in the hopes Blizz hear your input, because talking about it here is pointless.
It is pretty simple fix really, go post elsewhere? Stay out of PvP section?
Anyway, no GW is not classified as an MMO anywhere, GW2 is yes, but GW1 no. GW1 gets PvE updates EVERYDAY, to say they neglected PvE just shows how clueless you are. Just stop posting, you are making a fool of yourself.
First off, don't want you on PvP'ers side. Your flawed theories and blind nuthuggery would do nothing but bad for the community.
Secondly, rankings do not require "esport" level balancing. It is a very simple K/D ratio, that is very easily implemented. Will people complain cause they suck to bad to make a strategy? Sure, but they won't complain anymore then kids who can't seem to get past Lord De seis or the lighting monsters.
Thirdly, again we do not want Blizzard's full support. We just want the very basic tools and options we had before to where we could craft and make PvP what it should be. Instead we get this secluded arena BS that has everyones hands tied. It's like giving power to a person who doesn't want it and just lets it rot.
AGAIN, PvP does not affect PvM anyway. I don't see how you believe it will or does, because it does not. It is very simple to code skills to work differently for PvM and PvP, it is very simple to allow duel games and non duel games, it is very simple to do everything we ask for...and yet blind nuthuggers like you seem to keep resorting to "esports" ha.
See, it seems you failed to actually read my post. On top of that you also resort to insults (what is with the PvP crowd using insults as part of their counterpoints?). Let me restate the same thing, yes again...
Blizzard does not want to add eSport-based features because doing so would give the public impression that they were supporting eSport-level play in Diablo 3, which they aren't. This isn't about ranking being hard to implement, its that by implementing ranking they endorse non-casual PvP within Diablo 3. That will lead to sponsors pressuring them to balance the PvP further, etc.
It's a direction they did not want to go with Diablo 3 as the Diablo series has always been about the story and smashing monsters, not PvP. They instead chose to create a design for casual PvP to let people continue to PvP, while maintaining the core concepts that Diablo has always been about.
What purpose do ranking serve to the average player of Diablo 3? Why would the benefit the general community? They wouldn't. The general Diablo 3 community wants amazing co-op play. Rankings tend to only act as a way for one player to say they are better then others...a bragging right. It tends to breed elitism and create inflated egos, something the casual community would not really care to deal with at all.
I will most definitely PvP in Diablo 3 as it will be fun, not to inflate some need to be better then everyone. I urge others to do the same.
silly arguing fan site junkies..... It doesn't matter if there is no pvp at launch, you wont even have the gear to pvp in the first place. D2 was NEVER looked at as an E-sport why should D3? if pvp isnt there calm down, they said it would be we just have to wait... i would much rather get my economy rolling then be worried about the PVP aspect.
They went the PvP route by balancing both portions of the game and by giving the PvP audience some options beyond simple duels...I can see that yea sure ok.
Just face it, you are clueless when it comes to GW and obviously have nothing to say against how they balanced both portions of the game and your beloved Blizzard cannot.
And Ecutruin:
It is not about the rankings. You again, pick 1 little thing to try and spin in your favor while ignoring all of the other facts. I think you nailed it on the head though, with the word casual. Blizzard is indeed making this Diablo for the casual crowd, the crowd who will easily flock to the next latest game. Shame really, the casual crowd isn't who still plays Diablo to this day. Oh well, Blizzards loss not mine.
Valkray:
It is not about the gear, its the fact we have no options to PvP with. Contrary to what people think, gear is not the main aspect of Diablo PvP. Also level is not either. So your point of PvPing early is pointless is incorrect and just your view.
They went the PvP route by balancing both portions of the game and by giving the PvP audience some options beyond simple duels...I can see that yea sure ok.
Just face it, you are clueless when it comes to GW and obviously have nothing to say against how they balanced both portions of the game and your beloved Blizzard cannot.
And Ecutruin:
It is not about the rankings. You again, pick 1 little thing to try and spin in your favor while ignoring all of the other facts. I think you nailed it on the head though, with the word casual. Blizzard is indeed making this Diablo for the casual crowd, the crowd who will easily flock to the next latest game. Shame really, the casual crowd isn't who still plays Diablo to this day. Oh well, Blizzards loss not mine.
Valkray:
It is not about the gear, its the fact we have no options to PvP with. Contrary to what people think, gear is not the main aspect of Diablo PvP. Also level is not either. So your point of PvPing early is pointless is incorrect and just your view.
and what the hell is correct? if blizzard wants to give pvp regulations, which it should, then its there damn option, not yours. if your not going to go out, get 3d anaimation sand programing skills and make the game, you don't cry about it.
And Ecutruin:
It is not about the rankings. You again, pick 1 little thing to try and spin in your favor while ignoring all of the other facts. I think you nailed it on the head though, with the word casual. Blizzard is indeed making this Diablo for the casual crowd, the crowd who will easily flock to the next latest game. Shame really, the casual crowd isn't who still plays Diablo to this day. Oh well, Blizzards loss not mine.
I picked out ratings because Elementz complained I was picking out eSports and said ratings were what they wanted. If you point out another eSport-based feature (say ladder), the reasons against adding it are pretty much the same. Blizzard has no intention of giving ANY impression that they support eSports in Diablo 3. Adding competitive PvP features create that kind of impression and as such won't likely ever make it into game (unless Blizzard changes their mind).
I will say that some suggestions I've seen for PvP are pretty awesome. I love the idea of just having a specific world area that just has open PvP. That'd allow for players to create a competitive scene if they wanted it (duels, etc), but without Blizzard really offering any direct support for such competitive PvP. Say make the Arena integrated into the actual world, you could go to it from within a game to do open world PvP, or you could choose PvP from out of game to use the matchmaking system for non-open PvP. Best of both worlds, without stepping on either's toes.
I'm not against PvP, but I'm against changing the focus of Diablo 3...especially at this point in the game's development.
Now reverse; D3 is a PVE focused game. Yes it has a PVP part, which they've given a LOT more attention to this time around, but the game, the end game, any part of the game has been PVE, another point you can't argue, well mostly because the developers themselves MADE the game for PVE.
D1 had ganking
D2 had griefing
D3 will have multiple arenas, game modes, a (while maybe not visible) internal ladder to better match you against an opponent.
I'm confused as to what the argument is. If you like pvp in a mostly, 95% (made up) PVE game, and they are putting in a lot of options for pvp'ers, why any complaining?
Edit: Stole some of succubus_queen's points =P
You didn't read what I said at all lol holy.. I said I DON'T CARE IF IT'S AN ESPORT. I gotta use caps because people seem to have this flying over their heads. I just want a ladder system that records your teams record and for them not to have this "fuck you pvp guy" mentality that Blizzard has. That's it. PvP'ers are part of the community as well and I think the PvP community is a lot bigger then people seem to realize. I know there's polls taken etc.. But TBH it seems like everyone here is a WoW MMO PvE Carebear that's moved onto D3.. No offence, but that's really how I see it lol. I literally know no one who is happy about Blizzard's choice to not support PvP in D3. All of my online friends are against it and all of my IRL friends are against it. It might just be the hundreds of people I'ved talked to about Diablo 2 with that loved PvP a lot but I doubt it..
You can get mad at the PvE aspect of that game because SC2 campaign sucked and I wish they put a lot more effort into it. I would 100% agree and back you up with that point that they completely lacked storyline in their solo player game and it's not up to par of what it should be.
But wait wait wait.. End game SC? No, that doesn't work for this arguement because it's not an RPG or MMO game. They are completely different game types. You just seem to be ignoring the fact that PvP WAS a big deal in D2 and people who PvPed in D2 are feeling really let down about D3 because it's not up to par of what it should be. Is Diablo a PvE focused for game the majority of the game? Yes. Will PvP be a large part of the end game for players in D3? Absolutely. Will it be supported the way it should be for the D2 to D3 community? Not at all.
I'm confused when you say 'will it be supported the way it should be for D2 to D3 community? Not at all.' How exactly was it supported in D2? If you took the pvp features from D2 and D3 and compared them, you would have arena with multiple maps, multiple pvp modes, and an internal ranking ladder, compared to... griefing in D2.
What I'm saying and what I THINK a lot of people here are trying to say is, D3 IS getting a lot of pvp attention, without going overboard. Most of us who are arguing this don't want to see this suddenly get turned into a huge balancing act, all the way down to PVP only items to whatever other extreme it could have.
I agree, PVP will be a big endgame, it's the alternative to farming, and I will defiantly be playing it, a lot. But I also think that D3 has more than enough for pvp attention, without causing what I said above to happen. But I'm still confused as to why I'm hearing that D3 hasn't gotten the pvp attention that it deserves 'like' D2 did, because D1 and D2 had NO pvp attention. Hell even the ladders were for PVE.
Edit; 1337 post atm =D
I guess you'd rather they delay the game another two months until it's ready to roll out with the pve game that you have to play through 3 times before you can even start competitive pvp anyway.
The D2 "pvp" was just LOL_PKyou has joined the game, he goes hostile and kills you or vice versa when your goal wasn't even to pvp in the first place because D2 was a pve game... just like D3 is. They're just feeding you baby birds by even giving you *any* pvp support. BE GRATEFUL
So I guess what I am saying here is FFA is definitely needed.
The "Arena", well I guess the easier way for blizzard to allow stuff like iron mans ect would be to allow world PVP in a private/public game ("d2 style"), as I doubt we will get options for for arena matches like: game time, FFA? and access to content.
I am not only arguing in behalf of the PvPers, but also, the MANY players that will be coming from different games to play this game, like SC2, WoW, GW, ect, players from pretty much every game will be picking up this game. We need to keep in mind, this game shouldn't be tailor made for a relatively small population on hardcore D2 players (PvPers and PvMers alike). This game should be able to cater for a much broader audience, of millions from numerous games, that have many different tastes.
Right now, IMO, as it is right now - outside of the PvM game play (which is great, don't get me wrong I like PvM too, and have a legit 99 on d2) - the game is a little lacking. No private channels? No guilds/clans? No game lists?
1. Being able to meat new friends - joining a guild will allow you to meet say more people, and people that are higher lvl than you that you wouldn't necessarily be able to interact with if you just joined public games. Do you want that super cool armor that you can't create because you are too low lvl, and because your friends are low lvl as well, well in a guild say a lvl 60 may have the recipe and make it for you.
2. Representation, the whole social aspect of being on a clan/guild is very appealing to many people who emmerce themselves in a game.
3. Chat - a guild chat, or private channels accessible in game would be very convenient.
[PvP] Blizzard neglecting a major part of what made Diablo, Diablo."
Diablo is a PvM/PvE (whatever you prefer) game.
Clans/Guilds: I actually agree that this feature would be a good one to have. Its not really a PvP specific feature and would be very nice to be able to have an in-game representation for those various clans that will exist anyways.
eSport: Elementz keeps bringing up that I focus on eSport. The reason for this is that if you don't care if its an eSport or not, then this whole topic is moot. Ranking will not be added unless the game were to be focused towards being an eSport, Blizzard has outright stated this. So, to ask for eSport features means Blizzard would have to balance the game as an eSport. As that would adversely affect the rest of the game, its frowned upon by the majority of the D3 community.
Duels: Jay Wilson said that we wants a way for people to have duels, even if its just going to a specific spot in the world where you get flagged while in that place. I think an area like this would offer a good way to have the D2 PvP aspect without it affecting those that don't want it. Make a place in the world that flags everyone that walks into the area. Then people could setup their own rules for dueling, etc...and Blizzard doesn't need to support it any further.
The last point I want to make is that a lot of us that enjoy PvE also like casual PvP. Calling us 'carebears' etc is not a really good way to sway us to your side. In fact, all you achieve by using insults like that is drive us to disagree more. That whole elitist attitude is a major reason why casual players dislike PvP players. If PvP players could just PvP and still be respectful of players that do not PvP, I'm sure the casual crowd would be more respectful of the PvP desires.
The reality of the situation is this, however...
- Diablo 3 is nearly finished.
- eSport level balance is nearly impossible with the current design of the game
- They've publicly announced that they will stay away from eSport features.
- Development would be split between PvP and PvE if PvP became a major focus.
- PvP has never been a major focus in the Diablo series.
Honestly, they could change their stance on PvP and eSports between now and when PvP is released. Due to the amount of changes that would have to be made to make it a reality (as well as the amount of resources), it isn't likely. They'd be diverting a large amount of their development team in order to make this happen, hurting the PvE gameplay as a result. The majority of their players are primarily PvE players as well, making it a rather bad business decision to focus heavily on eSport PvP.
Because of all of this, I can say with some confidence that we'll never see eSport features in Diablo 3. It could happen, but there a lot of reasons against it.
Secondly, rankings do not require "esport" level balancing. It is a very simple K/D ratio, that is very easily implemented. Will people complain cause they suck to bad to make a strategy? Sure, but they won't complain anymore then kids who can't seem to get past Lord De seis or the lighting monsters.
Thirdly, again we do not want Blizzard's full support. We just want the very basic tools and options we had before to where we could craft and make PvP what it should be. Instead we get this secluded arena BS that has everyones hands tied. It's like giving power to a person who doesn't want it and just lets it rot.
AGAIN, PvP does not affect PvM anyway. I don't see how you believe it will or does, because it does not. It is very simple to code skills to work differently for PvM and PvP, it is very simple to allow duel games and non duel games, it is very simple to do everything we ask for...and yet blind nuthuggers like you seem to keep resorting to "esports" ha.
Anyway, no GW is not classified as an MMO anywhere, GW2 is yes, but GW1 no. GW1 gets PvE updates EVERYDAY, to say they neglected PvE just shows how clueless you are. Just stop posting, you are making a fool of yourself.
See, it seems you failed to actually read my post. On top of that you also resort to insults (what is with the PvP crowd using insults as part of their counterpoints?). Let me restate the same thing, yes again...
Blizzard does not want to add eSport-based features because doing so would give the public impression that they were supporting eSport-level play in Diablo 3, which they aren't. This isn't about ranking being hard to implement, its that by implementing ranking they endorse non-casual PvP within Diablo 3. That will lead to sponsors pressuring them to balance the PvP further, etc.
It's a direction they did not want to go with Diablo 3 as the Diablo series has always been about the story and smashing monsters, not PvP. They instead chose to create a design for casual PvP to let people continue to PvP, while maintaining the core concepts that Diablo has always been about.
What purpose do ranking serve to the average player of Diablo 3? Why would the benefit the general community? They wouldn't. The general Diablo 3 community wants amazing co-op play. Rankings tend to only act as a way for one player to say they are better then others...a bragging right. It tends to breed elitism and create inflated egos, something the casual community would not really care to deal with at all.
I will most definitely PvP in Diablo 3 as it will be fun, not to inflate some need to be better then everyone. I urge others to do the same.
Just face it, you are clueless when it comes to GW and obviously have nothing to say against how they balanced both portions of the game and your beloved Blizzard cannot.
And Ecutruin:
It is not about the rankings. You again, pick 1 little thing to try and spin in your favor while ignoring all of the other facts. I think you nailed it on the head though, with the word casual. Blizzard is indeed making this Diablo for the casual crowd, the crowd who will easily flock to the next latest game. Shame really, the casual crowd isn't who still plays Diablo to this day. Oh well, Blizzards loss not mine.
Valkray:
It is not about the gear, its the fact we have no options to PvP with. Contrary to what people think, gear is not the main aspect of Diablo PvP. Also level is not either. So your point of PvPing early is pointless is incorrect and just your view.
and what the hell is correct? if blizzard wants to give pvp regulations, which it should, then its there damn option, not yours. if your not going to go out, get 3d anaimation sand programing skills and make the game, you don't cry about it.
I picked out ratings because Elementz complained I was picking out eSports and said ratings were what they wanted. If you point out another eSport-based feature (say ladder), the reasons against adding it are pretty much the same. Blizzard has no intention of giving ANY impression that they support eSports in Diablo 3. Adding competitive PvP features create that kind of impression and as such won't likely ever make it into game (unless Blizzard changes their mind).
I will say that some suggestions I've seen for PvP are pretty awesome. I love the idea of just having a specific world area that just has open PvP. That'd allow for players to create a competitive scene if they wanted it (duels, etc), but without Blizzard really offering any direct support for such competitive PvP. Say make the Arena integrated into the actual world, you could go to it from within a game to do open world PvP, or you could choose PvP from out of game to use the matchmaking system for non-open PvP. Best of both worlds, without stepping on either's toes.
I'm not against PvP, but I'm against changing the focus of Diablo 3...especially at this point in the game's development.