throw barbs gonna be nice 300 spear has damage boosts to those stats. At least for leveling 60-70 I cant see anything beating 300 spears damage boosts.
^Agreed. I like the changes. The perma wrath/ into the fray rune were a broken OP mechanic that (along with WW/sprint) made barbs way OP in terms of farm speed compared to other classes.
I dont see it over nerfed at all it just nerfs a broken op build. I find it funny that people only know how to play the game one way and are so resistant to change. And in no way are barbs have the lowest unbuffed dps in the game.
You mean true unbuffed, then yes. But, a barb's passives (and other skills) more than make up for this. I dont see how simply nerfing a broken build makes them the least effective class in the game.
the wrath nerf isn´t something i even take into account here since i knew it was comming, but rather than take our useless passives and skills and bring them up to the level of the good ones, they took the good ones and nerfed em to the shitty ones.
You have no idea how balancing is done in modern games, have you?
and i never had much hope for ww in the patch since the movespeed rune was always gonna win out over the others, so i knew it had to go. but i was expecting the whole skill to get the movespeed since it is just painfull to use without it.
all our buffs are screwed. which is bad for a class who already has the lowest unbuffed dps in the game.
And by far the highest survivability, resource generation, mobility and very likely highest Effective DPS in the game (with skills like Rend and Smash).
sry but the barb nerf is way overdone.
Of course, there's always going to be a person like you willing to defend even the most OP thing ever. DotA and LoL communities are just like this. There were heroes who had to go through 4-5 "overnerfing" patches to even be brought to the level of others (and are still used in competitive play), but hey they weren't "op" at all.
btw, what exactly did you see that you think qualifies as an "awesome" change? the only thing that i felt was a good change was making weapon throw a generator rather than a spender
Dreadnought... the new Hurricane... the new Into the Fray (which is probably gonna be insane in those "wave" modes).
Infinite resources create too many problems from a game design standpoint, and invalidates a huge part of combat design and balancing.
D3 Vanilla's first whole 1,5-2 years was ruled by infinite resources, and using those to fuel only the more powerful skills of the class. I don't want them to have to equalize every single skill cost and % damage just to solve the "infinite resource" problem, because that doesn't solve it, it just ignores it.
I sincerely hope they review that crappy gameplay experience instead of having us stuck in the same thing for the next 6+ years (for all I care, they could rebalance skills and change the metagame every couple months).
You mean true unbuffed, then yes. But, a barb's passives (and other skills) more than make up for this. I dont see how simply nerfing a broken build makes them the least effective class in the game.
you didn´t notice that all of those got nerfed as well?
A few of the passives got changed and LS seems to be reduced but thats consistent with the LS changes from the other classes as well. You're telling me thats enoughto render the barb, in your words, "unplayable"?
I find it strange how some people have such a weird out look on things. Instead of moaning about the changes, why not look at them and see what new builds can come out of this? Take Jaetch for example, he's spent almost all his wealth on one build - Archon. They're taking out perma archon but you dont see him whining about it. Instead, he's already thinking about the new viable builds from the changes
You mean true unbuffed, then yes. But, a barb's passives (and other skills) more than make up for this. I dont see how simply nerfing a broken build makes them the least effective class in the game.
you didn´t notice that all of those got nerfed as well?
A few of the passives got changed and LS seems to be reduced but thats consistent with the LS changes from the other classes as well. You're telling me thats enoughto render the barb, in your words, "unplayable"?
I find it strange how some people have such a weird out look on things. Instead of moaning about the changes, why not look at them and see what new builds can come out of this? Take Jaetch for example, he's spent almost all his wealth on one build - Archon. They're taking out perma archon but you dont see him whining about it. Instead, he's already thinking about the new viable builds from the changes
But he's not human... We are...
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Infinite resources create too many problems from a game design standpoint, and invalidates a huge part of combat design and balancing.
D3 Vanilla's first whole 1,5-2 years was ruled by infinite resources, and using those to fuel only the more powerful skills of the class. I don't want them to have to equalize every single skill cost and % damage just to solve the "infinite resource" problem, because that doesn't solve it, it just ignores it.
I sincerely hope they review that crappy gameplay experience instead of having us stuck in the same thing for the next 6+ years (for all I care, they could rebalance skills and change the metagame every couple months).
And yet the new sword and board Talent will take care of that 20 rage for every block is sort of infite resource with a high mob density.
The changes Overall (not only barb changes) will drastically slow down the pace of the game. If they compensate for that throught more xp / Gold per mob that might actually be a good Change. It also leaves more room to Play other specs then the most effective because everything else in put in relation.
And yes some new Features are really nice! But given the current state of the game barbs will Need more ehp to be playable on higher mp. now you can just whirl throught and be away. in the future you might Need to tank a Little bit. But who is to say they dont adapt other parts of the game to compensate for that with loot 2.0 you can probably have good dps AND ehp stats on most items and maybe Mobs aren't hitting that strong anymore.
I guess, my Basic Point ist. We cannot say how These changes will affect the barb at all because we don't know how they will adapt the rest of the game. I for one choose to be happy about all the new possibilities spec wise and believe it will leave us with more possibilities in the end.
And yet the new sword and board Talent will take care of that 20 rage for every block is sort of infite resource with a high mob density.
Fair point. Some observations, though.
At least it's a more "defensive" oriented infinite resource pool. And one that will only work against lots of enemies (and never in a 1x3, 1x1 situation). Not all enemies focus you all the time, sometimes they scatter, sometimes they run, sometimes they attack someone else. I think Block doesn't work with most elemental dmg too.
Also as you kill enemies, the resource generation considerably slows down. With the current WWBarbs, you can have 1 or 2 enemies being hit by Tornadoes and have a very steady stream of Fury.
The changes Overall (not only barb changes) will drastically slow down the pace of the game.
As much as I like Diablo to be very action packed, I don't think they meant to be that much, with WW Barbs.
After playing a bit more slowly in the console, it pains to me the PC version in its current state, with a group of 4 people just sprinting like mad and running around, not even caring about small skirmishes or single monsters/chests/etc.
In my very humble opinion, D3 could use "some" slowing down
I guess, my Basic Point ist. We cannot say how These changes will affect the barb at all because we don't know how they will adapt the rest of the game. I for one choose to be happy about all the new possibilities spec wise and believe it will leave us with more possibilities in the end.
True. And we can't even say if these changes are actually going to be implemented.
As much as I like Diablo to be very action packed, I don't think they meant to be that much, with WW Barbs.
After playing a bit more slowly in the console, it pains to me the PC version in its current state, with a group of 4 people just sprinting like mad and running around, not even caring about small skirmishes or single monsters/chests/etc.
In my very humble opinion, D3 could use "some" slowing down
totally agree ^^ ist not fun this way. so i am acctually looking Forward to the changes.
But i assume there will be a lot of whining if they don't compensate for that otherwise (if it leads to half the xp/hour that we have now for e.g. ist a huge penality)
As much as I like Diablo to be very action packed, I don't think they meant to be that much, with WW Barbs.
After playing a bit more slowly in the console, it pains to me the PC version in its current state, with a group of 4 people just sprinting like mad and running around, not even caring about small skirmishes or single monsters/chests/etc.
In my very humble opinion, D3 could use "some" slowing down
totally agree ^^ ist not fun this way. so i am acctually looking Forward to the changes.
But i assume there will be a lot of whining if they don't compensate for that otherwise (if it leads to half the xp/hour that we have now for e.g. ist a huge penality)
1 vs 1 it still would be viable. You can block most spells, even ae, and with proper gear nowadays you can go up to like 50-60% block Chance with ease? (of cause they might nerf block Chance over all)
so you can have all the fun talents while still putting out good dps.
leap, Charge, rend, hota, frenzy/Smash/cleave/throw + battle rage or some defensive skill
plus you would be indestructable
I would proably go with weapon throw for those pescy Little fellas that always run away (of cause for effincency you could put sprint/Marathon in. but hey, i aint giving up my leap again...)
although the new hurricane rune might rock as well especially if Mobs still attack while beeing pulled towards you.... that would just be another Variation of the current build. run through all Mobs, collect a few, start hurricane non stop while sprinting through the Zone. Blocking will take care of resource Generation. damage might be a litte low but since you are invulnerable you can just drag them till the end of the Zone ^^
1 vs 1 it still would be viable. You can block most spells, even ae, and with proper gear nowadays you can go up to like 50-60% block Chance with ease? (of cause they might nerf block Chance over all)
so you can have all the fun talents while still putting out good dps.
leap, Charge, rend, hota, frenzy/Smash/cleave/throw + battle rage or some defensive skill
plus you would be indestructable
I would proably go with weapon throw for those pescy Little fellas that always run away (of cause for effincency you could put sprint/Marathon in. but hey, i aint giving up my leap again...)
although the new hurricane rune might rock as well especially if Mobs still attack while beeing pulled towards you.... that would just be another Variation of the current build. run through all Mobs, collect a few, start hurricane non stop while sprinting through the Zone. Blocking will take care of resource Generation. damage might be a litte low but since you are invulnerable you can just drag them till the end of the Zone ^^
Yeah that new Hurricane rune looks really interesting. Seems like a monk's cyclone strike but you can move while using it. Be interesting to see what creative new builds people come up with.
now try and understand, the loss of perma wrath and into the fray i understand. but i was hoping we would see some overall change to how our fury works to compensate a little for it.
Now that is a very good argument. Fury Generators could definitely use some reworking, I totally agree. It's part of the reason why people rely on Into The Fray so much, because Fury Generators are really "meh".
Either lower cooldowns or, what I think is better, just ouright higher Fury generated. Maybe a mechanic that makes using them while having been hit makes them generate more Fury (50% more Fury for every hit taken in the last 3 seconds, up to 4 stacks?).
Barbs were also supposed to generate Fury when being hit, but the amount is really negligible. It's not something like 5 Fury for every hit taken, and that's also an aspect that could use some buffing.
I am not asking for infinite resource, nor am i asking for cc immunity or anything that OP. what i want is balance, which the game will be heavily lacking if it ships with these changes as it stands.
These are probably pre-alpha testings. If we get our hands on something like this on the PTR, and see that the effective DPS of Barbs became crap (no matter what build we use), then we start losing our minds
1 vs 1 it still would be viable. You can block most spells, even ae, and with proper gear nowadays you can go up to like 50-60% block Chance with ease? (of cause they might nerf block Chance over all)
Still, even if an enemy attacks once/second and you block 100% of the time, that's only 20 Fury/second, compared to the current 80-100 Fury/sec, it's much less Fury
Barbs needed to be nerfed, yes. but this is so way over the top and unbalanced its not even funny.
Yeah, barbs are so balanced in the current state. /End sarcasm.
Really if you think the barb nerfs are not justified then you really do not understand any form of game design.
You think it is super unbalanced, i guess you have done some testing then eh?
Barb needs a nerf and a big one at that, having infinite resource + running at the speed of light + insane CC immunity + the dps/mobile dps to go with it.
Bring on the nerfs, it might make me play my barb again for real, instead of turning him into a self found S&B machine.
you obviusly have trouble reading i assume?
already stated that barbs needed a nerf, ive written several times that perma wrath and infinite resource was op.
gotten alot of people like you posting everywhere lately, guessing you play dh? they at least seem to be the group of people who would rather see barb unplayable than balanced.
i have done a few rounds of testing with builds that dont revolve around into the fray and thrives on chaos. it works sure, but the fury generation is very unsmooth and in general very "meh". comparing it with a monk for instance really shows how much the new barb would lag behind.
maybe you should try and play a few classes and think about their resource management before you open your mouth.
What im hoping is that they take any changes to PTR a good few months before they plan on launching anything, so we don´t get another case of what happend to the demon hunter early on in d3.
You seem to just be thinking about the BiS gear barbs that are pretty ridiculous. If you take the average player who doesnt rock 200k+ dps these builds aren't as amazing as you are indicating. I guess they're really fast pace if you play at a lower MP. What's your point?
You have done a 'few' rounds of testing and this qualifies you as a barb nerfing expert? You must think very highly of yourself.
Barbs needed to be nerfed, yes. but this is so way over the top and unbalanced its not even funny.
Yeah, barbs are so balanced in the current state. /End sarcasm.
Really if you think the barb nerfs are not justified then you really do not understand any form of game design.
You think it is super unbalanced, i guess you have done some testing then eh?
Barb needs a nerf and a big one at that, having infinite resource + running at the speed of light + insane CC immunity + the dps/mobile dps to go with it.
Bring on the nerfs, it might make me play my barb again for real, instead of turning him into a self found S&B machine.
you obviusly have trouble reading i assume?
already stated that barbs needed a nerf, ive written several times that perma wrath and infinite resource was op.
gotten alot of people like you posting everywhere lately, guessing you play dh? they at least seem to be the group of people who would rather see barb unplayable than balanced.
i have done a few rounds of testing with builds that dont revolve around into the fray and thrives on chaos. it works sure, but the fury generation is very unsmooth and in general very "meh". comparing it with a monk for instance really shows how much the new barb would lag behind.
maybe you should try and play a few classes and think about their resource management before you open your mouth.
What im hoping is that they take any changes to PTR a good few months before they plan on launching anything, so we don´t get another case of what happend to the demon hunter early on in d3.
You seem to just be thinking about the BiS gear barbs that are pretty ridiculous. If you take the average player who doesnt rock 200k+ dps these builds aren't as amazing as you are indicating. I guess they're really fast pace if you play at a lower MP. What's your point?
You have done a 'few' rounds of testing and this qualifies you as a barb nerfing expert? You must think very highly of yourself.
No but having 2k hours played in this game and having played all classes, but mainly barb, monk and wiz does mean i have the knowledge to make correct assessment.
why is it that every kid on these forums suddenly woke up and decided to cry fowl for everyone wanting them to polish up the nerfs in the leaked strings.
as far as i know no one in this thread has asked for the current wrath ww build to remain as it is?
So now that you've had your fun exploiting what you call a broken and overpowered class it's ready for a nerf? And a big F.U. to you sir.
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lmao I have no idea what you're talking about. There's a TON of awesome changes to barbs so far from the datamining, you should actually go read them.
Just because the mandatory rune into the fray, the WoTB rune and the WW were nerfed doesn't mean everything is lost. Typical people who over react.
And by far the highest survivability, resource generation, mobility and very likely highest Effective DPS in the game (with skills like Rend and Smash).
Of course, there's always going to be a person like you willing to defend even the most OP thing ever. DotA and LoL communities are just like this. There were heroes who had to go through 4-5 "overnerfing" patches to even be brought to the level of others (and are still used in competitive play), but hey they weren't "op" at all.
Dreadnought... the new Hurricane... the new Into the Fray (which is probably gonna be insane in those "wave" modes).
Infinite resources create too many problems from a game design standpoint, and invalidates a huge part of combat design and balancing.
D3 Vanilla's first whole 1,5-2 years was ruled by infinite resources, and using those to fuel only the more powerful skills of the class. I don't want them to have to equalize every single skill cost and % damage just to solve the "infinite resource" problem, because that doesn't solve it, it just ignores it.
I sincerely hope they review that crappy gameplay experience instead of having us stuck in the same thing for the next 6+ years (for all I care, they could rebalance skills and change the metagame every couple months).
A few of the passives got changed and LS seems to be reduced but thats consistent with the LS changes from the other classes as well. You're telling me thats enoughto render the barb, in your words, "unplayable"?
I find it strange how some people have such a weird out look on things. Instead of moaning about the changes, why not look at them and see what new builds can come out of this? Take Jaetch for example, he's spent almost all his wealth on one build - Archon. They're taking out perma archon but you dont see him whining about it. Instead, he's already thinking about the new viable builds from the changes
But he's not human... We are...
Twitch.tv: twitch.tv/mehsiah | Youtube/Twitter in the future.
And yet the new sword and board Talent will take care of that 20 rage for every block is sort of infite resource with a high mob density.
The changes Overall (not only barb changes) will drastically slow down the pace of the game. If they compensate for that throught more xp / Gold per mob that might actually be a good Change. It also leaves more room to Play other specs then the most effective because everything else in put in relation.
And yes some new Features are really nice! But given the current state of the game barbs will Need more ehp to be playable on higher mp. now you can just whirl throught and be away. in the future you might Need to tank a Little bit. But who is to say they dont adapt other parts of the game to compensate for that with loot 2.0 you can probably have good dps AND ehp stats on most items and maybe Mobs aren't hitting that strong anymore.
I guess, my Basic Point ist. We cannot say how These changes will affect the barb at all because we don't know how they will adapt the rest of the game. I for one choose to be happy about all the new possibilities spec wise and believe it will leave us with more possibilities in the end.
At least it's a more "defensive" oriented infinite resource pool. And one that will only work against lots of enemies (and never in a 1x3, 1x1 situation). Not all enemies focus you all the time, sometimes they scatter, sometimes they run, sometimes they attack someone else. I think Block doesn't work with most elemental dmg too.
Also as you kill enemies, the resource generation considerably slows down. With the current WWBarbs, you can have 1 or 2 enemies being hit by Tornadoes and have a very steady stream of Fury.
As much as I like Diablo to be very action packed, I don't think they meant to be that much, with WW Barbs.
After playing a bit more slowly in the console, it pains to me the PC version in its current state, with a group of 4 people just sprinting like mad and running around, not even caring about small skirmishes or single monsters/chests/etc.
In my very humble opinion, D3 could use "some" slowing down
True. And we can't even say if these changes are actually going to be implemented.
totally agree ^^ ist not fun this way. so i am acctually looking Forward to the changes.
But i assume there will be a lot of whining if they don't compensate for that otherwise (if it leads to half the xp/hour that we have now for e.g. ist a huge penality)
Agreed. Looking forward to the changes.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
so you can have all the fun talents while still putting out good dps.
leap, Charge, rend, hota, frenzy/Smash/cleave/throw + battle rage or some defensive skill
plus you would be indestructable
I would proably go with weapon throw for those pescy Little fellas that always run away (of cause for effincency you could put sprint/Marathon in. but hey, i aint giving up my leap again...)
although the new hurricane rune might rock as well especially if Mobs still attack while beeing pulled towards you.... that would just be another Variation of the current build. run through all Mobs, collect a few, start hurricane non stop while sprinting through the Zone. Blocking will take care of resource Generation. damage might be a litte low but since you are invulnerable you can just drag them till the end of the Zone ^^
no Problem ^^ just give me all your gear and reroll to another class
Yeah that new Hurricane rune looks really interesting. Seems like a monk's cyclone strike but you can move while using it. Be interesting to see what creative new builds people come up with.
Either lower cooldowns or, what I think is better, just ouright higher Fury generated. Maybe a mechanic that makes using them while having been hit makes them generate more Fury (50% more Fury for every hit taken in the last 3 seconds, up to 4 stacks?).
Barbs were also supposed to generate Fury when being hit, but the amount is really negligible. It's not something like 5 Fury for every hit taken, and that's also an aspect that could use some buffing.
These are probably pre-alpha testings. If we get our hands on something like this on the PTR, and see that the effective DPS of Barbs became crap (no matter what build we use), then we start losing our minds
Still, even if an enemy attacks once/second and you block 100% of the time, that's only 20 Fury/second, compared to the current 80-100 Fury/sec, it's much less Fury
You seem to just be thinking about the BiS gear barbs that are pretty ridiculous. If you take the average player who doesnt rock 200k+ dps these builds aren't as amazing as you are indicating. I guess they're really fast pace if you play at a lower MP. What's your point?
You have done a 'few' rounds of testing and this qualifies you as a barb nerfing expert? You must think very highly of yourself.
So now that you've had your fun exploiting what you call a broken and overpowered class it's ready for a nerf? And a big F.U. to you sir.