Yeah this is really sad imo. Don't know how many times I have died on diablo when he swings his arm. Betting he is taking my soul and have it there and grips it or something. Only explanation I have!
All high-damaging boss attacks are telegraphed so you can move out of them. If you are dying to boss melee then you shouldn't be in melee range.
Obviously haven't Inferno Diablo'd.
I stacked 1000 Vit, killed I-Diablo, what a genius end game boss, not.
The hit detection does suck, I actually thought it was just AUS lag when I got melee'd by the subjugators in Act4 from 1000 paces, lmao.
But yea, skilled dodging would so own having enough EHP to survive, thats just lame, gear > skill in D3.
Do yourself a favor. Go play D2, and get into the Cow Level. Watch how ridiculously long those polearms seem to be. Then reflect back on your D3 experience.
Then, realize that Diablo is just like that. Get used to it.
the detection is pretty wack/broken. i always thought it was lag too until i read this. i would use leap escape sometimes jumping max distance only to see myself die as i landed. after reading i went back and can replicate it everytime, even if i dont die i still get hit from leaping. mob slightly begins to attack, i leap away, dead. even works with certain stuns which is funny. if you stun certain mobs mid attack they be stunned after they finish the animation. idk if mages have this issue with teleport, if so that sucks even more because theyre so much more squishy.
^^Why didn't they change the monster attacks to reflect the fact that you could dodge manually? I guess that was too much work, let's just make unavoidable attacks...
They originally had it so you could dodge pretty much every attack (prior to beta), and they said the game was way too easy for ranged classes and completely unfair to melee, even more so than it is now. All the ranged could go glass cannon and rarely die.
The hit detection does suck, I actually thought it was just AUS lag when I got melee'd by the subjugators in Act4 from 1000 paces, lmao.
But yea, skilled dodging would so own having enough EHP to survive, thats just lame, gear > skill in D3.
Lol, so naive. If they gave you skilled dodging, it would make the game that much cheaper for ranged, barely help for melee, and you would just die to something else when they raised mob dmg/lowered player avoidance to compensate. We should just acknowledge you lack the skill to play the game, and move on.
EDIT: As an aside, skill is objective. I think skill means learning how to succeed around the existing game systems, you seem to think skill means having someone change the game to suit your preference.
the detection is pretty wack/broken....mob slightly begins to attack, i leap away, dead. ...
Not_Kurt - nailed it on the head. you had a kiting/movement fail, and died because you got hit before you moved. You aren't Bulletproof monk, you don;t get to avoid the game worlds rules, even if you don't like them.
^^Why didn't they change the monster attacks to reflect the fact that you could dodge manually? I guess that was too much work, let's just make unavoidable attacks...
They originally had it so you could dodge pretty much every attack (prior to beta), and they said the game was way too easy for ranged classes and completely unfair to melee, even more so than it is now. All the ranged could go glass cannon and rarely die.
maka -if they had, again, you would die from increased damage, or whatever changes they added to balance manual dodging. Or you would die when dodge wasn't on cooldown or unavailable. And then be here asking for more changes.
Drak - absolutely right. Because a manual dodge only works for small numbers of mobs, and small numbers of incoming attacks at once. Because of it's power, it would have a limiting mechanism, making it great for ranged, who rarely need it, and crap for melee, who would always need it.
That's what I'm saying, though. Make it possible to manually dodge some or even many attacks, but make sure that just weaving in and out and never getting hit is impossible.
So let me get this straight - you not only want to remove auto-hits if the animation starts...but you want a way to avoid even more damage? How cheap/bad a player are you? And what class? Because i can't see anyone who plays melee and has half a brain think this change would help them...and ranged players who *rarely* die and cry about needing a way to die less while strutting 400k dps need to learn to play and stacking enough survivability to take the occasional hit, not bitch at Blizzard to weaken game system to support their incompetence.
The hit detection does suck, I actually thought it was just AUS lag when I got melee'd by the subjugators in Act4 from 1000 paces, lmao.
But yea, skilled dodging would so own having enough EHP to survive, thats just lame, gear > skill in D3.
Lol, so naive. If they gave you skilled dodging, it would make the game that much cheaper for ranged, barely help for melee, and you would just die to something else when they raised mob dmg/lowered player avoidance to compensate. We should just acknowledge you lack the skill to play the game, and move on.
EDIT: As an aside, skill is objective. I think skill means learning how to succeed around the existing game systems, you seem to think skill means having someone change the game to suit your preference.
the detection is pretty wack/broken....mob slightly begins to attack, i leap away, dead. ...
Not_Kurt - nailed it on the head. you had a kiting/movement fail, and died because you got hit before you moved. You aren't Bulletproof monk, you don;t get to avoid the game worlds rules, even if you don't like them.
^^Why didn't they change the monster attacks to reflect the fact that you could dodge manually? I guess that was too much work, let's just make unavoidable attacks...
They originally had it so you could dodge pretty much every attack (prior to beta), and they said the game was way too easy for ranged classes and completely unfair to melee, even more so than it is now. All the ranged could go glass cannon and rarely die.
maka -if they had, again, you would die from increased damage, or whatever changes they added to balance manual dodging. Or you would die when dodge wasn't on cooldown or unavailable. And then be here asking for more changes.
Drak - absolutely right. Because a manual dodge only works for small numbers of mobs, and small numbers of incoming attacks at once. Because of it's power, it would have a limiting mechanism, making it great for ranged, who rarely need it, and crap for melee, who would always need it.
That's what I'm saying, though. Make it possible to manually dodge some or even many attacks, but make sure that just weaving in and out and never getting hit is impossible.
So let me get this straight - you not only want to remove auto-hits if the animation starts...but you want a way to avoid even more damage? How cheap/bad a player are you? And what class? Because i can't see anyone who plays melee and has half a brain think this change would help them...and ranged players who *rarely* die and cry about needing a way to die less while strutting 400k dps need to learn to play and stacking enough survivability to take the occasional hit, not bitch at Blizzard to weaken game system to support their incompetence.
What a load of bullshit. Stack survivability to take a hit?? do you play a DH?
The reason every DH is going full DPS glass cannon is because it's the only viable choice in inferno. With the way Inferno is tuned currently, there is no point to stack vit and All Resists like Melee do. If you stack enough vit and Resists to be able to be 2 shotted instead of 1 shotted then you've sacrificed so much DPS it'll take forever to kill shit and you'll just end up getting 2 shotted all the time.
So the only option at the moment is to stack high DPS and kill stuff at the edge of the screen before it can insta kill you with unavoidable "I kill you before I complete mah animationz" attacks.
What a load of bullshit. Stack survivability to take a hit?? do you play a DH?
The reason every DH is going full DPS glass cannon is because it's the only viable choice in inferno. With the way Inferno is tuned currently, there is no point to stack vit and All Resists like Melee do. If you stack enough vit and Resists to be able to be 2 shotted instead of 1 shotted then you've sacrificed so much DPS it'll take forever to kill shit and you'll just end up getting 2 shotted all the time.
So the only option at the moment is to stack high DPS and kill stuff at the edge of the screen before it can insta kill you with unavoidable "I kill you before I complete mah animationz" attacks.
Entire argument is invalid. Inferno changes in 1.0.3 will come before this change could be implemented, just based on Blizzards history of researching and implementing changes. And since the complaint is the occasional situation where you get into melee and don't move in time, yes, the ability to take 2 hits would help. If melee can manage with 30k dps, i think any *good* player would be able to manage with 100-150 instead of 400 - especially after the patch.
So let me get this straight - you not only want to remove auto-hits if the animation starts...but you want a way to avoid even more damage? How cheap/bad a player are you? And what class? Because i can't see anyone who plays melee and has half a brain think this change would help them...and ranged players who *rarely* die and cry about needing a way to die less while strutting 400k dps need to learn to play and stacking enough survivability to take the occasional hit, not bitch at Blizzard to weaken game system to support their incompetence.
You're being a dick. Stop that.
I want the game to involve some skill, not just be 100% about numbers.
If the game required no skill, then a toddler could beat it if you gave them top-end gear. Clearly that is not the case, and there is skill involved. People asked for a very hard difficulty, and then more people come around complaining they don't have the entire game on easy mode only a month after it's released. If you got what you asked for, I'm sure you could beat it and then stop playing in a week when you're bored. That doesn't exactly make for a long lasting game though.
Alcovitch: Yes you can take hits with a DH. I've spent less than 5 million on gear (2 million on the weapon alone) and I can take hits on my DH in Act 3. It's not hard to stack a little vitality, resist all, and use a defensive skill, while still maintaining high DPS. I see DH's complaining left and right that they can't take a hit and they can't deal with reflect damage. Try using Shadow Power with Gloom rune, and suddenly you can take hits. It even lasts twice as long as Smoke Screen and allows you to kill reflect damage with ease. Maybe this game doesn't require the vast amount of skill people expected, but it does require some strategy. I see people following the same spec over and over again and don't actually experiment and try to improve. Instead they come here and whine to have things nerfed or buffed to make the game easier for them. Blizzard didn't make the best game in the world, but if it was designed by the players it would be terrible.
So let me get this straight - you not only want to remove auto-hits if the animation starts...but you want a way to avoid even more damage? How cheap/bad a player are you? And what class? Because i can't see anyone who plays melee and has half a brain think this change would help them...and ranged players who *rarely* die and cry about needing a way to die less while strutting 400k dps need to learn to play and stacking enough survivability to take the occasional hit, not bitch at Blizzard to weaken game system to support their incompetence.
You're being a dick. Stop that.
I want the game to involve some skill, not just be 100% about numbers.
I am. It is what happens when people refuse to read, learn, or educate themselves on an issue before arguing it.
I have went into excruciating detail in this thread why this change would neither increase the skill required, or resolve the issue of certain classes getting 1-shot by mobs due to bad kiting. It would just be one more button to possibly evade 1 more death occasionally for ranged, and almost never for melee. sure, using it at the best times would be considered skill, but on a scale of 1-100, if the game currently requires a scale of 55 skill to do well, it would require 57 after words - at best.
The real issue is that this thread has 2 separate opposing issues - (1) some players want more skill-based combat, and (2) a greater number of people do not like auto-hits.
(1) Diablo does require skill - playing the game as designed isn't faceroll at the end (using Act 1 Inferno as a measuring stick, since Act 2-4 are broken), and it is harder than D2. Claiming the game doesn't require skill is disingenuous, and implies that it is too easy without your requested change. And yet, your request is due to the game being to hard as it stands, making everyone using this argument retarded, or hypocrites.
Diablo is not the game you want. It doesn't work the way you like, and the type of skill it requires is not pleasant for you. The name on the box isn't what defines the game, the combination of systems and story does. And by changing them, you change the game.
in other words, you need to play a different game to get what you are looking for.
(2) I can understand auto-hits being annoying. Not kiting right, or running through the wrong doorway, makes survival questionable in many circumstances. Hell, it is dangerous far before Inferno, in fact. The difference between you and I (and everyone else asking for this change), is I understand full well that is they gave us this change, it would be at the expense of an equal increase in threat from some other source. A source with an equal chance of hitting. Here is a potential patch note for you -
Due to popular demand, the ability for monsters to complete melee attacks on characters not in range when the attack animation completes has been removed. In order to balance this change, mob movement speed has been increased by 10%, while movement impairing abilities used by players have been increased by 5%. This should result in about the same amount of incoming damage, while making better use of gear and skills which provide additional run speed.
I laughed a bit, especially on the fire wave which you were away for like 5 to 7 yards and still died. But the death on the hardcore chars are sick. The wiz's one is purely bad coding from Blizz side, but the others are player's lack of skills.
Due to popular demand, the ability for monsters to complete melee attacks on characters not in range when the attack animation completes has been removed. In order to balance this change, mob movement speed has been increased by 10%, while movement impairing abilities used by players have been increased by 5%. This should result in about the same amount of incoming damage, while making better use of gear and skills which provide additional run speed.
That would be a lovely change, actually. I'd gladly welcome an overall decrease in our effectiveness, or a general increase in monster effectiveness, if it meant a melee attack was aligned better with its animation and could be avoided in a consistent fashion. I'm not advocating for a dodge button. I'm just hoping hit detection was less unorthodox. Having played the game quite a bit I know how it works currently. I realize that if I'm close to a monster and an attack is triggered, no amount of kiting or running away will avoid that attack. It's the nature of the beast. But I still don't find it fun or even something I'm willing to tolerate as ideal game programming. It strikes me as sloppy and bugged.
Due to popular demand, the ability for monsters to complete melee attacks on characters not in range when the attack animation completes has been removed. In order to balance this change, mob movement speed has been increased by 10%, while movement impairing abilities used by players have been increased by 5%. This should result in about the same amount of incoming damage, while making better use of gear and skills which provide additional run speed.
That would be a lovely change, actually. I'd gladly welcome an overall decrease in our effectiveness, or a general increase in monster effectiveness, if it meant a melee attack was aligned better with its animation and could be avoided in a consistent fashion. I'm not advocating for a dodge button. I'm just hoping hit detection was less unorthodox. Having played the game quite a bit I know how it works currently. I realize that if I'm close to a monster and an attack is triggered, no amount of kiting or running away will avoid that attack. It's the nature of the beast. But I still don't find it fun or even something I'm willing to tolerate as ideal game programming. It strikes me as sloppy and bugged.
After I wrote it, I realized I wouldn't mind it as a change either. I think many would find it just as bad, once they realized they still died just as often, only in ways more clearly on them.
Yay, all that college time studying game design and working at game companies has finally paid off! Lol,
I happen to think gameplay designed around "dance in and out all the time" removes much of the challenge and enjoyment in playing the game.
So you actually prefer a game that has less skillfull play in favor of simple gear checks? You're likely in the target audience Blizz has catered this game to...those who will willingly buy an equipment loadout for $300 on the AH because they've accepted that's their only chance at success in D3.
Look at this dude putting words in my mouth, pulling something completely unrelated (pay to win mechanics) out of his ass. That's called a straw man. Something tells me you're butthurt.
I like fighting enemies and winning based on my character's build and skill selection, not my ability to side step for an hour.
That's just stupid. Sidestepping doesn't require skill.
I tried to play Torchlight yesterday. I was doing fine until I ran into some big high-health 1-shot-kill monsters. Trying to step in, punch them once, step out, and repeat for over two minutes to kill them SUCKED.
"For example: previously, if you were debuffed by a 60% slow that lasted for 2 seconds while wearing gear that provides 20% Crowd Control Reduction, your movement speed would be reduced by 60%, but only for 1.6 seconds. Now, the same amount of Crowd Control Reduction will reduce the Slow effect to 48%, but the effect will remain for the full 2 second duration."
Lol, a buff the movement impairing effects. Damage reduction in Inferno, followed by a means of increasing damage as a balance. They didn't do it in reagdrs to the fix I stated above, they just used it for a different nerf.
I happen to think gameplay designed around "dance in and out all the time" removes much of the challenge and enjoyment in playing the game.
So you actually prefer a game that has less skillfull play in favor of simple gear checks? You're likely in the target audience Blizz has catered this game to...those who will willingly buy an equipment loadout for $300 on the AH because they've accepted that's their only chance at success in D3.
Look at this dude putting words in my mouth, pulling something completely unrelated (pay to win mechanics) out of his ass. That's called a straw man. Something tells me you're butthurt.
I like fighting enemies and winning based on my character's build and skill selection, not my ability to side step for an hour.
That's just stupid. Sidestepping doesn't require skill.
I tried to play Torchlight yesterday. I was doing fine until I ran into some big high-health 1-shot-kill monsters. Trying to step in, punch them once, step out, and repeat for over two minutes to kill them SUCKED.
As I said before, even if they changed this and added an active dodge, it wouldn't be spamable, and would be accompanied by some other increase in damage. And not being spamable would mean to just save yourself 1 death occasionally, and that melee would get no benefit at all. I will say, it is possible to design it in a way that it could have increased benefit for melee, but then ranged would cry they are being discriminated against.
Having a button to save you from your inability to utilize game mechanics isn't skill either. The skill is in using the game mechanics, not in changing the game to suit game mechanics you like.
Do agree with Torchlight, I hated having not recourse, even with current level gear, of winning against certain mobs without that behavior. D3 has less reliance on that for the most part (will see after Inferno nerfs today), and scales much better with gear. But honestly, the game has always been about (1) loot drops, and (2) creative use of skills/environment to get it. Yes, that means it is a gear check game, and yes, it means it doesn't utilize the type of skill-based gameplay you want.
It's unbelievable this kind of nonsense can even be considered intended gameplay. 'm actually having more fun trying to capture these absurd moments in screenshots than I am trying to avoid them.
I would agree with this if it worked for your hits too. Currently, if you try to melee a mob that's running away (like those flying ranged beasts from Act 3,) you miss every time because the hits take too long to connect and the mob is already too far away. So, why can monsters hit you from far away but you can't? It makes no sense.
(Excuse typos it's late, the wife wants to watch a movie)
In the interest of being fair, let's assume they were to add this feature. Any implementations that would not make usage significantly skill-based while still allowing the game to be accessible to most players will be thrown out. Also, no crazy unrealistic ideas or things that change the game in a way that makes it not Diablo. Not to be rude, but that is the point one needs another game, not changes to this one.
Control Scheme -
the control scheme is highly problematic to start with.
(1) Due to the fact that the left hand is already semi-static (1-4+Q), any idea of having dodge keys for the cardinal directions is out.
(2) Any setup that requires significantly changed keybinds is out
(3) 1 Single key is no more skill than a passive, really, unless it had a cooldown or dimishing returns on effectiveness.
(4)Extra mouse-buttons are invalid, as not everyone has those, and they shouldn't be required to play.
(5) The one concept that could work would be dbl-clicking in a direction to dodge. This has issues of it's own, as both buttons have attacks mapped to them, and anyone playing the game knows that clicking a monters or impassable terrain has questionable results at best.
Choice - (5) dbl-clicking.
Function -
So you dbl-click to dodge. What happens?
(1) you dodge, and an incoming attack is avoided. Doesn't scale well for the type of game we are playing, with many mobs attacking.
(2) you dodge, and x# of incoming attacks are avoided. Could scale with dodge rating, so chars with higher rating can avoid more attacks at once. Would still be questionable for chars with minimum dodge rating - skillful usages would save them more times than not, though.
(3) dbl-click a specific mob to dodge it's attack. Doesn't scale well with numerous mobs, would not be very functional.
(4) dbl-click in a short range around the player. Player moves no more than 5 yards in the direction clicked, doding x# of in process attacks in the least Y milliseconds. Works well for getting out of immediate danger, doesn't give much utility when surrounded though. Does encourage skillful play and awareness of the characters surroundings.
Choice - (4) dbl-click directional.
Limiter -
Spamming dodge takes no skill, and would require a significant increase in mob damage to compensate, which would punish all players except the ones who utilize it well. Therefore, the skill must have a limiter on how well it functions.
(1) Cooldown - only make it work every X seconds. Choosing the right time for skills takes alot of skill, but in a game with as many monsters at one time, a cooldown makes the ability almost useless. Great is you have 1 sec left on an ability, but outside of that or fight small packs while kiting, not worth the effort of implementation.
(2) Scaling based on stat/attribute. You can dodge back to back, but the number of attacks avoided scale with some stat. Since not all classes have the means of increasing dodge rating, scale it off of vitality, since all classes can access, it is already a survival stat, and because scaling off the primary stat would give ridiculous scaling to everyone, making it cheap, not skill.
(3) Dimishing returns. You can spam the button, the first time it blocks x# of attacks, and blocks fewer attacks each consecutive press until it blocks a maximum of 1. 3-5 seconds of no use resets the counter. Not alot of skill here, but does do reasonably well against packs at first.
(4) Damage trigger. Button activates after you take X damage, or cause X damage. Not taking or causing damage for x seconds deactivates the ability. Would need a secondary limiter from above, but much weaker, to prevent spamming once damage is dealt. kiting would disable it, preventing cheap abuse.
Choice - a blend of (2) and (4)
Game Effects -
With our new dodge mechanic, what changes need to be taking into account to adapt the game.
(1) Mob damage needs to be adjusted. Giving chars a global ability to avoid damage requires mob to put out more damage to compensate.
(2) Itemization adjustments to make sure the scaling stat isn't too abundant, and to make sure people who suck at dodging can gear in an alternate manner to play the game.
(3) Mob hit boxes and attack would need to be updated, to allow the game to take into account how dodging moves the player, and to understand within how much of a deadzone a char can dodge and count as avoiding the incoming attacks.
(4) All players skills that provide avoidance, and all stats that provide avoidance, would need to be revisited and adjusted to account for the damage mitigation the new ability allows.
(5) Player dps would need to be addressed, as dodge would almost always be in addition to the kiting time currently spent.
Outside of the above, are some secondary points -
(1) Any player who isn't doing well in his current content won't be saved by dodge. It will just, in most cases, extend the amount of time to die. Clever characters may be able to pull out close fights, and some folks may be able to surive the occasionally otherise deadly hit. Characters right on the cusp of the next content breakpoint will benefit most, providing they know when and how to use it effectively.
(2) Classes who don't use vitality in favor of GC builds will gain no benefit at all really. And shouldn't. Damage vs survivability is a choice. Getting both isn't skill.
(3) No skill of this type effectively handles hordes of monsters. Skillful use in these cases requires good kiting/environmental awareness, because if you get surrounded, it won't save you.
(4) because of how the mouse buttons are utilized, and how attacking works, this setup is still shaky at best.
-----------------------------------------
I am sure there are other ideas out there, but I tried to be as comprehensive as possible in a short time. Covering the details in regards to just making every attack avoidable is easier, but people won't like it as much. Everything has a balance, and if you get a better chance to avoid damage, your chance to take more damage will increase relative to the other.
Meaning - if they take away hit completion of basic attacks once the swing starts, regardless of char position, you can be sure melee mobs will get a damage increase acrossed the board to make up for it. You don't like Soul Rippers now? Wait til after this change. Scavengers? Awesome! Or, you are will take a hit in your avoidance stats, so that you lose block%/dodge%/armor/vitality scaling/etc. Either way, you get to avoid one little bit of damage that can already be avoided if your careful, in exchange for damage you have no means of mitigating excepting better gear.
and before anyone suggests it - they won't just take those hits away. The game is balanced around people taking those hits. Doing so doesn't provide more skillful gameplay, and it provides no benefit outside of the very small group of people who think they wouldn't have died in the next 10 seconds regardless.
Just some food for your thoughts.
I feel sorry for "the wife", if she even exists, that is. Based on the size of that block you chunked together(not to mention many others), you clearly value forum ranting a lot more than spending time with her. Though she'd probably be tired of talking to someone who always has to be right anyway. Someone who vehemently disagrees with and puts down anyone else who's opinion does not coincide with their own entirely.
Hit detection is not broken, it just sucks. It's a poor design. We have no right to complain about how a game is built? But Blizz opened the flood gates. They've informed us of every little development step they have taken, practically since day one. Every change, every re-design, every artitistic alteration has been documented(excuse the hyperbole). They've asked for constant feedback(and still do). They've designed the system this way. They've given us a means and a reason to complain about their game.
When I played Titan Quest and I didn't like how something worked, I dealt with it. Because I had to. This is an entirely different ball game. Blizz has changed the rules. I've been disappointed with D3 because I got to see all of the design processes and how many times they have reinvented the game and still only came out with something mediocre. This hit-box stuff is terrible. It makes for a lousy game, nuff said. I shouldn't have to be "skillfull" and adapt to a mechanic that makes a game 'unenjoyable'.
That just makes an unenjoyable game, even less enjoyable.
That just makes an unenjoyable game, even less enjoyable.
Has anyone else, specifically wizards experienced the wormhole death teleport?
You equip wormhole+teleport, go find a phase beast in arreat core just before Azmo, don't use FA. Wait for the wind up animation on a phase beast, wormhole. When you come out the other end of your teleport chain, you will instantly transform into a gravemarker. I have nick-named it corpseporting, I find it fairly amusing.
I feel sorry for "the wife", if she even exists, that is. Based on the size of that block you chunked together(not to mention many others), you clearly value forum ranting a lot more than spending time with her. Though she'd probably be tired of talking to someone who always has to be right anyway. Someone who vehemently disagrees with and puts down anyone else who's opinion does not coincide with their own entirely.
Hit detection is not broken, it just sucks. It's a poor design. We have no right to complain about how a game is built? But Blizz opened the flood gates. They've informed us of every little development step they have taken, practically since day one. Every change, every re-design, every artitistic alteration has been documented(excuse the hyperbole). They've asked for constant feedback(and still do). They've designed the system this way. They've given us a means and a reason to complain about their game.
When I played Titan Quest and I didn't like how something worked, I dealt with it. Because I had to. This is an entirely different ball game. Blizz has changed the rules. I've been disappointed with D3 because I got to see all of the design processes and how many times they have reinvented the game and still only came out with something mediocre. This hit-box stuff is terrible. It makes for a lousy game, nuff said. I shouldn't have to be "skillfull" and adapt to a mechanic that makes a game 'unenjoyable'.
That just makes an unenjoyable game, even less enjoyable.
Very well said, and that's exactly how I feel. I suppose claiming this as broken is a misnomer since it's exactly how they've planned it. Bad design is more like it, and I'm glad others are stepping forward to express their frustration. +1 to you.
Has anyone else, specifically wizards experienced the wormhole death teleport?
Someone fraps that shit
Check out the first video in my OP. You see the wizard bouncing around in teleports during Diablo terror phase. When the tp ends he gets instantly hit.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Obviously haven't Inferno Diablo'd.
I stacked 1000 Vit, killed I-Diablo, what a genius end game boss, not.
The hit detection does suck, I actually thought it was just AUS lag when I got melee'd by the subjugators in Act4 from 1000 paces, lmao.
But yea, skilled dodging would so own having enough EHP to survive, thats just lame, gear > skill in D3.
Then, realize that Diablo is just like that. Get used to it.
They originally had it so you could dodge pretty much every attack (prior to beta), and they said the game was way too easy for ranged classes and completely unfair to melee, even more so than it is now. All the ranged could go glass cannon and rarely die.
Lol, so naive. If they gave you skilled dodging, it would make the game that much cheaper for ranged, barely help for melee, and you would just die to something else when they raised mob dmg/lowered player avoidance to compensate. We should just acknowledge you lack the skill to play the game, and move on.
EDIT: As an aside, skill is objective. I think skill means learning how to succeed around the existing game systems, you seem to think skill means having someone change the game to suit your preference.
Not_Kurt - nailed it on the head. you had a kiting/movement fail, and died because you got hit before you moved. You aren't Bulletproof monk, you don;t get to avoid the game worlds rules, even if you don't like them.
maka -if they had, again, you would die from increased damage, or whatever changes they added to balance manual dodging. Or you would die when dodge wasn't on cooldown or unavailable. And then be here asking for more changes.
Drak - absolutely right. Because a manual dodge only works for small numbers of mobs, and small numbers of incoming attacks at once. Because of it's power, it would have a limiting mechanism, making it great for ranged, who rarely need it, and crap for melee, who would always need it.
So let me get this straight - you not only want to remove auto-hits if the animation starts...but you want a way to avoid even more damage? How cheap/bad a player are you? And what class? Because i can't see anyone who plays melee and has half a brain think this change would help them...and ranged players who *rarely* die and cry about needing a way to die less while strutting 400k dps need to learn to play and stacking enough survivability to take the occasional hit, not bitch at Blizzard to weaken game system to support their incompetence.
What a load of bullshit. Stack survivability to take a hit?? do you play a DH?
The reason every DH is going full DPS glass cannon is because it's the only viable choice in inferno. With the way Inferno is tuned currently, there is no point to stack vit and All Resists like Melee do. If you stack enough vit and Resists to be able to be 2 shotted instead of 1 shotted then you've sacrificed so much DPS it'll take forever to kill shit and you'll just end up getting 2 shotted all the time.
So the only option at the moment is to stack high DPS and kill stuff at the edge of the screen before it can insta kill you with unavoidable "I kill you before I complete mah animationz" attacks.
Entire argument is invalid. Inferno changes in 1.0.3 will come before this change could be implemented, just based on Blizzards history of researching and implementing changes. And since the complaint is the occasional situation where you get into melee and don't move in time, yes, the ability to take 2 hits would help. If melee can manage with 30k dps, i think any *good* player would be able to manage with 100-150 instead of 400 - especially after the patch.
If the game required no skill, then a toddler could beat it if you gave them top-end gear. Clearly that is not the case, and there is skill involved. People asked for a very hard difficulty, and then more people come around complaining they don't have the entire game on easy mode only a month after it's released. If you got what you asked for, I'm sure you could beat it and then stop playing in a week when you're bored. That doesn't exactly make for a long lasting game though.
Alcovitch: Yes you can take hits with a DH. I've spent less than 5 million on gear (2 million on the weapon alone) and I can take hits on my DH in Act 3. It's not hard to stack a little vitality, resist all, and use a defensive skill, while still maintaining high DPS. I see DH's complaining left and right that they can't take a hit and they can't deal with reflect damage. Try using Shadow Power with Gloom rune, and suddenly you can take hits. It even lasts twice as long as Smoke Screen and allows you to kill reflect damage with ease. Maybe this game doesn't require the vast amount of skill people expected, but it does require some strategy. I see people following the same spec over and over again and don't actually experiment and try to improve. Instead they come here and whine to have things nerfed or buffed to make the game easier for them. Blizzard didn't make the best game in the world, but if it was designed by the players it would be terrible.
I am. It is what happens when people refuse to read, learn, or educate themselves on an issue before arguing it.
I have went into excruciating detail in this thread why this change would neither increase the skill required, or resolve the issue of certain classes getting 1-shot by mobs due to bad kiting. It would just be one more button to possibly evade 1 more death occasionally for ranged, and almost never for melee. sure, using it at the best times would be considered skill, but on a scale of 1-100, if the game currently requires a scale of 55 skill to do well, it would require 57 after words - at best.
The real issue is that this thread has 2 separate opposing issues - (1) some players want more skill-based combat, and (2) a greater number of people do not like auto-hits.
(1) Diablo does require skill - playing the game as designed isn't faceroll at the end (using Act 1 Inferno as a measuring stick, since Act 2-4 are broken), and it is harder than D2. Claiming the game doesn't require skill is disingenuous, and implies that it is too easy without your requested change. And yet, your request is due to the game being to hard as it stands, making everyone using this argument retarded, or hypocrites.
Diablo is not the game you want. It doesn't work the way you like, and the type of skill it requires is not pleasant for you. The name on the box isn't what defines the game, the combination of systems and story does. And by changing them, you change the game.
in other words, you need to play a different game to get what you are looking for.
(2) I can understand auto-hits being annoying. Not kiting right, or running through the wrong doorway, makes survival questionable in many circumstances. Hell, it is dangerous far before Inferno, in fact. The difference between you and I (and everyone else asking for this change), is I understand full well that is they gave us this change, it would be at the expense of an equal increase in threat from some other source. A source with an equal chance of hitting. Here is a potential patch note for you -
Due to popular demand, the ability for monsters to complete melee attacks on characters not in range when the attack animation completes has been removed. In order to balance this change, mob movement speed has been increased by 10%, while movement impairing abilities used by players have been increased by 5%. This should result in about the same amount of incoming damage, while making better use of gear and skills which provide additional run speed.
See the point yet?
That would be a lovely change, actually. I'd gladly welcome an overall decrease in our effectiveness, or a general increase in monster effectiveness, if it meant a melee attack was aligned better with its animation and could be avoided in a consistent fashion. I'm not advocating for a dodge button. I'm just hoping hit detection was less unorthodox. Having played the game quite a bit I know how it works currently. I realize that if I'm close to a monster and an attack is triggered, no amount of kiting or running away will avoid that attack. It's the nature of the beast. But I still don't find it fun or even something I'm willing to tolerate as ideal game programming. It strikes me as sloppy and bugged.
After I wrote it, I realized I wouldn't mind it as a change either. I think many would find it just as bad, once they realized they still died just as often, only in ways more clearly on them.
Yay, all that college time studying game design and working at game companies has finally paid off! Lol,
Look at this dude putting words in my mouth, pulling something completely unrelated (pay to win mechanics) out of his ass. That's called a straw man. Something tells me you're butthurt.
I like fighting enemies and winning based on my character's build and skill selection, not my ability to side step for an hour.
That's just stupid. Sidestepping doesn't require skill.
I tried to play Torchlight yesterday. I was doing fine until I ran into some big high-health 1-shot-kill monsters. Trying to step in, punch them once, step out, and repeat for over two minutes to kill them SUCKED.
"For example: previously, if you were debuffed by a 60% slow that lasted for 2 seconds while wearing gear that provides 20% Crowd Control Reduction, your movement speed would be reduced by 60%, but only for 1.6 seconds. Now, the same amount of Crowd Control Reduction will reduce the Slow effect to 48%, but the effect will remain for the full 2 second duration."
Lol, a buff the movement impairing effects. Damage reduction in Inferno, followed by a means of increasing damage as a balance. They didn't do it in reagdrs to the fix I stated above, they just used it for a different nerf.
As I said before, even if they changed this and added an active dodge, it wouldn't be spamable, and would be accompanied by some other increase in damage. And not being spamable would mean to just save yourself 1 death occasionally, and that melee would get no benefit at all. I will say, it is possible to design it in a way that it could have increased benefit for melee, but then ranged would cry they are being discriminated against.
Having a button to save you from your inability to utilize game mechanics isn't skill either. The skill is in using the game mechanics, not in changing the game to suit game mechanics you like.
Do agree with Torchlight, I hated having not recourse, even with current level gear, of winning against certain mobs without that behavior. D3 has less reliance on that for the most part (will see after Inferno nerfs today), and scales much better with gear. But honestly, the game has always been about (1) loot drops, and (2) creative use of skills/environment to get it. Yes, that means it is a gear check game, and yes, it means it doesn't utilize the type of skill-based gameplay you want.
It also means it isn't the game you want.
http://imgur.com/a/PbM1l#0
I feel sorry for "the wife", if she even exists, that is. Based on the size of that block you chunked together(not to mention many others), you clearly value forum ranting a lot more than spending time with her. Though she'd probably be tired of talking to someone who always has to be right anyway. Someone who vehemently disagrees with and puts down anyone else who's opinion does not coincide with their own entirely.
Hit detection is not broken, it just sucks. It's a poor design. We have no right to complain about how a game is built? But Blizz opened the flood gates. They've informed us of every little development step they have taken, practically since day one. Every change, every re-design, every artitistic alteration has been documented(excuse the hyperbole). They've asked for constant feedback(and still do). They've designed the system this way. They've given us a means and a reason to complain about their game.
When I played Titan Quest and I didn't like how something worked, I dealt with it. Because I had to. This is an entirely different ball game. Blizz has changed the rules. I've been disappointed with D3 because I got to see all of the design processes and how many times they have reinvented the game and still only came out with something mediocre. This hit-box stuff is terrible. It makes for a lousy game, nuff said. I shouldn't have to be "skillfull" and adapt to a mechanic that makes a game 'unenjoyable'.
That just makes an unenjoyable game, even less enjoyable.
Has anyone else, specifically wizards experienced the wormhole death teleport?
You equip wormhole+teleport, go find a phase beast in arreat core just before Azmo, don't use FA. Wait for the wind up animation on a phase beast, wormhole. When you come out the other end of your teleport chain, you will instantly transform into a gravemarker. I have nick-named it corpseporting, I find it fairly amusing.
Someone fraps that shit
Very well said, and that's exactly how I feel. I suppose claiming this as broken is a misnomer since it's exactly how they've planned it. Bad design is more like it, and I'm glad others are stepping forward to express their frustration. +1 to you.
Check out the first video in my OP. You see the wizard bouncing around in teleports during Diablo terror phase. When the tp ends he gets instantly hit.