I like Furious Charge better than War Cry. It generates more Fury per second (assuming you hit someone) and provides a lot of utility. (30 second CD on War Cry makes it tough to rely on for every fight)
I also like Momentum on Overpower better. The 12 Fury per mob gained outweighs the 10% increased chance at 15 rage.
And like most have said, personal preference and situation will be a huge contributor to your build.
You say that but than you switch WC for Wrath? It has a huge cooldown and costs you fury (which is counter productive)... Yes Berserker Rage works on all skills. I think you'll be fighting a new mob every 10-20 seconds not every second so a 30 second CD isn't that bad
I realize Berserk Rage works on all skills, but only if at max fury. If the fury dump is calculated before the damage, then it provides no bonus to Weapon Throw.
Also, I'm not suggesting you replace WC with WotB. They serve two different purposes. In your build, you included FC which differed from the others I looked at, I like that. But you have three Fury generators: Cleave, FC, and WC. WC provides 120 fury per minute when runed if used every CD. And if you rely on it to max out for Weap Throw, then the mob every 10-20s you are fighting becomes reliant on the 30s CD.
In mine, I also use 3 Fury generators but Overpower + Momentum (if estimated on CD vs 3 mobs and no crits) is 142 per minute. I'd say the crits vs qty of mobs balances out, its much more beneficial. Plus I can use it in every fight 15-20s apart.
The reason I like WotB is that every few packs of mobs, you can pull of a an insanely huge WT. With Animosity, your WT is 145% + 3(120)% weap damage [505%]. Added with Berserker Rage and WotB's x115% damage is a +1000% (depends on if the added bonuses are added or multiplied). Plus going into the next fight you have increased speed, dodge, AS, and crit. All at the cost of procced 10% crit (possibly 20%).
I tend to lean towards balancing dam and crit, so when I do crit it really shows.
Edit: I will add, that if you do replace the WotB CD with WC, you'll have nearly endless WTs. You're trading a Burst Damage CD for more sustained DPS. Either way works.
Was thinking about this concept again, I like to refer to it as the "Barb Bomb". I think I will try and make it my main build for Barbarian, cheers to the OP for bringing the concept to light. I do have a problem that I would like peoples opinion on though, first here is my Barb Bomb.
The problem is, which "Primary" attack should I use as my go to skill?
Cleave runed grants 5 Fury + 3 per mob hit. On most videos i've seen it seems to hit 2 mobs most of the time so i'll say a total of 11 Fury per attack for now.
Bash grants you 12 Fury per attack when runed. Only attacks 1 target though.
Frenzy only grants you 3 Fury per attack, however also gives you 75% attack speed at 5 stacks. I really like the look of the "Sidearm" runed effect. My main question with Frenzy is this, how many attacks are in each "use" of the skill and can you use it more often than the other two abilities?
Not a big fan or bash, frenzy, or cleave tbh. You could be moving around while you're gaining fury, so standing still doesn't seem ideal.
I still think its a good idea to have 1 fury generator you can spam, however I do agree with you and atleast if you pick Frenzy you will gain attack speed and an extra something depending on what rune you pick.
Frenzy only grants you 3 Fury per attack, however also gives you 75% attack speed at 5 stacks. I really like the look of the "Sidearm" runed effect. My main question with Frenzy is this, how many attacks are in each "use" of the skill and can you use it more often than the other two abilities?
Maybe i don't understand this question, but there's definitely 1 attack per each "click". With sidearm it has also a 25% chance to throw an axe to a random enemy. The axe is able to hit all enemies in its path but i don't think it will apply on hit effects or critical effects. This is why i think that Maniac is just better, especially if you use it as a fury generator.
You can use definitely it more often, for the 75% IAS (additive, i suppose), but i'm not sure that it will generate more fury than runed cleave or bash, even if you bring the weapon speed under 0.5 seconds.
Thanks for the answer. I am not wanting it to generate more rage, I just don't want it to generate far less than the other two.
Really interesting thread, read the whole thing. Might be surprising but this is the first build (or discussion about one) I've seen on ANY forum that I'm actually interested in. This was my favorite evolution in the thread which I only changed a little (like someone said, at this point it just comes down to personal preference how you round it out):
I think probably like everybody is saying on the 2nd page, Frenzy is hands down the best dps generator, but I'm not sure if that will make it the "best" come Inferno. Especially considering the fact that we know 100% that Barbarian was struggling in Inferno the most of the 5 classes from what they've told us (hence the buffs in patch 13). For that reason I chose Bash over Frenzy. Thats also why I changed the rune on Furious Charge, to in theory make it a skill without a cooldown (in other words, a generator AND an oh sh*t button).
Even if this build looks really neat at first glance, using dread bomb is the least efficient way to deal damage/fury. For example, for 10 fury, you hit for 145% weapon damage. With 10 fury used on dread bomb, you only deal an additional 30%.
I looked into this sort of build also, and i came to the conclusion that unless this damage can be converted into something beneficial apart from pure damage, it is not worth it since the damage/fury is too low. To avoid loosing a lot of fury for little damage, you would definitely want to use throw as soon as you are able to. Unless you do that, you will expand you fury for small damage gains. Then when the time is right, you start stocking up on rage for the dread bomb. You definitely want to use dread bomb, when your critical chance is maxed, being just after you used both overpower and revenge in any case.
This being said, if you go with animosity and have 120 fury, you can deal up to 475% weapon damage in one throw. This is quite a lot. The way i see it being beneficial is when you use this with "ignore pain" ignorance is bliss for example. In this case, it might be nice to have this skill to help you dish out as much damage as you can during the 3sec you have for heal. It would definetly grant you a great healing potential every 30 seconds.
Nevertheless, i think this build is not the common thing we will see in inferno but it would still be worth the try.
Even if this build looks really neat at first glance, using dread bomb is the least efficient way to deal damage/fury. For example, for 10 fury, you hit for 145% weapon damage. With 10 fury used on dread bomb, you only deal an additional 30%.
You missed the most important part though Dread Bomb doesn't just do an additional 30% for 10 fury, it does an additional 30% to EVERYTHING within 12 yards of the target. So you only need 5 more enemies to make it do MORE damage than the skill itself.
I think this ability will REALLY shine while killing "trash," while when it comes to elites and bosses, it might struggle a little bit if there are no "adds" during the encounters. At least in the way you mention (that it won't be good damage/fury).
You missed the most important part though Dread Bomb doesn't just do an additional 30% for 10 fury, it does an additional 30% to EVERYTHING within 12 yards of the target. So you only need 5 more enemies to make it do MORE damage than the skill itself.
This.
Also remember you are dealing all this damage instantly, in one big bomb. Who knows what kind of skills mobs will have later on? Maybe some heal? Maybe some take less damage at a certain % of total hp? etc etc. The Barb Bomb will kill before they even get the chance.
Even if this build looks really neat at first glance, using dread bomb is the least efficient way to deal damage/fury. For example, for 10 fury, you hit for 145% weapon damage. With 10 fury used on dread bomb, you only deal an additional 30%.
I looked into this sort of build also, and i came to the conclusion that unless this damage can be converted into something beneficial apart from pure damage, it is not worth it since the damage/fury is too low. To avoid loosing a lot of fury for little damage, you would definitely want to use throw as soon as you are able to. Unless you do that, you will expand you fury for small damage gains. Then when the time is right, you start stocking up on rage for the dread bomb. You definitely want to use dread bomb, when your critical chance is maxed, being just after you used both overpower and revenge in any case.
Well the purpose of the build is not to expend Fury on anything other than buffs and then Weapon Throw. If you look at the original build, the sustained DPS comes from Overpower and Cleave, both of which don't use Fury. The main objective is to gain enough Fury to have Dread Bomb come into full effect and deal massive AoE damage at once. You wouldn't be casting Weapon Throw when you only have 10 Fury because, as you said, it just doesn't deal a whole lot of damage; you need to save the Fury up before using the ability which is why the other skills and passives are based around generating Fury and crit chance.
I have a feeling that this build really will not work in Inferno difficulty if it is as hard as the developers say it is, the build has very little survivability skills, but it should work really well for farming Nightmare and Hell mode mobs I'd think.
Even if this build looks really neat at first glance, using dread bomb is the least efficient way to deal damage/fury. For example, for 10 fury, you hit for 145% weapon damage. With 10 fury used on dread bomb, you only deal an additional 30%.
You missed the most important part though Dread Bomb doesn't just do an additional 30% for 10 fury, it does an additional 30% to EVERYTHING within 12 yards of the target. So you only need 5 more enemies to make it do MORE damage than the skill itself.
I think this ability will REALLY shine while killing "trash," while when it comes to elites and bosses, it might struggle a little bit if there are no "adds" during the encounters. At least in the way you mention (that it won't be good damage/fury).
I did not miss anything really. It just doesn't seems to me like the best way to expand my fury. It is only a 330% weapon AOE for the cost of all your fury. It might do more damage then the skill itself when there is 5 mobs around but i still think that there are much better ways of spending fury then this. Throwing twice hammer of the ancients makes more damage than this for only 40 fury and there is a 15% increased critical chance. Sorry guys but i can't see this happening. It is viable but rather sub-optimal imo.
Even if this build looks really neat at first glance, using dread bomb is the least efficient way to deal damage/fury. For example, for 10 fury, you hit for 145% weapon damage. With 10 fury used on dread bomb, you only deal an additional 30%.
You missed the most important part though Dread Bomb doesn't just do an additional 30% for 10 fury, it does an additional 30% to EVERYTHING within 12 yards of the target. So you only need 5 more enemies to make it do MORE damage than the skill itself.
I think this ability will REALLY shine while killing "trash," while when it comes to elites and bosses, it might struggle a little bit if there are no "adds" during the encounters. At least in the way you mention (that it won't be good damage/fury).
I did not miss anything really. It just doesn't seems to me like the best way to expand my fury. It is only a 330% weapon AOE for the cost of all your fury. It might do more damage then the skill itself when there is 5 mobs around but i still think that there are much better ways of spending fury then this. Throwing twice hammer of the ancients makes more damage than this for only 40 fury and there is a 15% increased critical chance. Sorry guys but i can't see this happening. It is viable but rather sub-optimal imo.
Hammer of the Ancients isn't aoe, its a cone shaped attack which hits directly in front of you.
Yeah sorry I worded it wrong I meant radial (no idea why I typed AOE). Anyways, what I meant to say was that Dread Bomb will hit more targets than HotA.
Yeah sorry I worded it wrong I meant radial (no idea why I typed AOE). Anyways, what I meant to say was that Dread Bomb will hit more targets than HotA.
You assume it will hit more targets, still you don't know for sure. A cone hitting up to 22 yards in front of you seems quite AOE efficient to me when you position yourself. The only pro i would give to weapon throw over HOTA is the range, nothing more.
It is not that i don't like the idea of it, really, i checked all that out already. Still, you don't need to have knowledge about harmonics, algorythms and linear algebra to solve this simple math problem. You get less for the fury you spend.
This is true when comparing with other spenders but if you have a build which has many fury generators other spending abilties don't burn the rage quickly enough.
This skill won't be as good in your more common builds, however in a build like mine where I am generating so much fury I will be able to fire off top end bombs often.
I am not trying to imply its the best, I am just saying your suggestion of it not being viable in harder difficulties could be wrong. I don't see many other Barbarian builds being this fun either.
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I realize Berserk Rage works on all skills, but only if at max fury. If the fury dump is calculated before the damage, then it provides no bonus to Weapon Throw.
Also, I'm not suggesting you replace WC with WotB. They serve two different purposes. In your build, you included FC which differed from the others I looked at, I like that. But you have three Fury generators: Cleave, FC, and WC. WC provides 120 fury per minute when runed if used every CD. And if you rely on it to max out for Weap Throw, then the mob every 10-20s you are fighting becomes reliant on the 30s CD.
In mine, I also use 3 Fury generators but Overpower + Momentum (if estimated on CD vs 3 mobs and no crits) is 142 per minute. I'd say the crits vs qty of mobs balances out, its much more beneficial. Plus I can use it in every fight 15-20s apart.
The reason I like WotB is that every few packs of mobs, you can pull of a an insanely huge WT. With Animosity, your WT is 145% + 3(120)% weap damage [505%]. Added with Berserker Rage and WotB's x115% damage is a +1000% (depends on if the added bonuses are added or multiplied). Plus going into the next fight you have increased speed, dodge, AS, and crit. All at the cost of procced 10% crit (possibly 20%).
I tend to lean towards balancing dam and crit, so when I do crit it really shows.
Edit: I will add, that if you do replace the WotB CD with WC, you'll have nearly endless WTs. You're trading a Burst Damage CD for more sustained DPS. Either way works.
The problem is, which "Primary" attack should I use as my go to skill?
Cleave runed grants 5 Fury + 3 per mob hit. On most videos i've seen it seems to hit 2 mobs most of the time so i'll say a total of 11 Fury per attack for now.
Bash grants you 12 Fury per attack when runed. Only attacks 1 target though.
Frenzy only grants you 3 Fury per attack, however also gives you 75% attack speed at 5 stacks. I really like the look of the "Sidearm" runed effect. My main question with Frenzy is this, how many attacks are in each "use" of the skill and can you use it more often than the other two abilities?
Cheers.
I still think its a good idea to have 1 fury generator you can spam, however I do agree with you and atleast if you pick Frenzy you will gain attack speed and an extra something depending on what rune you pick.
Thanks for the answer. I am not wanting it to generate more rage, I just don't want it to generate far less than the other two.
I guess the build i'll try will look like this: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#WhXUeV!ZYW!ZbZYYc
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#bUSRVk!ZWf!ZZZZcZ
And this is what I came up with:
http://us.battle.net...hRVk!ZWf!aZZZcZ
I think probably like everybody is saying on the 2nd page, Frenzy is hands down the best dps generator, but I'm not sure if that will make it the "best" come Inferno. Especially considering the fact that we know 100% that Barbarian was struggling in Inferno the most of the 5 classes from what they've told us (hence the buffs in patch 13). For that reason I chose Bash over Frenzy. Thats also why I changed the rune on Furious Charge, to in theory make it a skill without a cooldown (in other words, a generator AND an oh sh*t button).
I wonder why there isn't a number for this "chance"...
Does anyone know how much chance do we have, on top of crit chance?
I looked into this sort of build also, and i came to the conclusion that unless this damage can be converted into something beneficial apart from pure damage, it is not worth it since the damage/fury is too low. To avoid loosing a lot of fury for little damage, you would definitely want to use throw as soon as you are able to. Unless you do that, you will expand you fury for small damage gains. Then when the time is right, you start stocking up on rage for the dread bomb. You definitely want to use dread bomb, when your critical chance is maxed, being just after you used both overpower and revenge in any case.
This being said, if you go with animosity and have 120 fury, you can deal up to 475% weapon damage in one throw. This is quite a lot. The way i see it being beneficial is when you use this with "ignore pain" ignorance is bliss for example. In this case, it might be nice to have this skill to help you dish out as much damage as you can during the 3sec you have for heal. It would definetly grant you a great healing potential every 30 seconds.
Nevertheless, i think this build is not the common thing we will see in inferno but it would still be worth the try.
You missed the most important part though Dread Bomb doesn't just do an additional 30% for 10 fury, it does an additional 30% to EVERYTHING within 12 yards of the target. So you only need 5 more enemies to make it do MORE damage than the skill itself.
I think this ability will REALLY shine while killing "trash," while when it comes to elites and bosses, it might struggle a little bit if there are no "adds" during the encounters. At least in the way you mention (that it won't be good damage/fury).
This.
Also remember you are dealing all this damage instantly, in one big bomb. Who knows what kind of skills mobs will have later on? Maybe some heal? Maybe some take less damage at a certain % of total hp? etc etc. The Barb Bomb will kill before they even get the chance.
Well the purpose of the build is not to expend Fury on anything other than buffs and then Weapon Throw. If you look at the original build, the sustained DPS comes from Overpower and Cleave, both of which don't use Fury. The main objective is to gain enough Fury to have Dread Bomb come into full effect and deal massive AoE damage at once. You wouldn't be casting Weapon Throw when you only have 10 Fury because, as you said, it just doesn't deal a whole lot of damage; you need to save the Fury up before using the ability which is why the other skills and passives are based around generating Fury and crit chance.
I have a feeling that this build really will not work in Inferno difficulty if it is as hard as the developers say it is, the build has very little survivability skills, but it should work really well for farming Nightmare and Hell mode mobs I'd think.
I did not miss anything really. It just doesn't seems to me like the best way to expand my fury. It is only a 330% weapon AOE for the cost of all your fury. It might do more damage then the skill itself when there is 5 mobs around but i still think that there are much better ways of spending fury then this. Throwing twice hammer of the ancients makes more damage than this for only 40 fury and there is a 15% increased critical chance. Sorry guys but i can't see this happening. It is viable but rather sub-optimal imo.
Hammer of the Ancients isn't aoe, its a cone shaped attack which hits directly in front of you.
lawl.
You assume it will hit more targets, still you don't know for sure. A cone hitting up to 22 yards in front of you seems quite AOE efficient to me when you position yourself. The only pro i would give to weapon throw over HOTA is the range, nothing more.
It is not that i don't like the idea of it, really, i checked all that out already. Still, you don't need to have knowledge about harmonics, algorythms and linear algebra to solve this simple math problem. You get less for the fury you spend.
This is true when comparing with other spenders but if you have a build which has many fury generators other spending abilties don't burn the rage quickly enough.
This skill won't be as good in your more common builds, however in a build like mine where I am generating so much fury I will be able to fire off top end bombs often.
I am not trying to imply its the best, I am just saying your suggestion of it not being viable in harder difficulties could be wrong. I don't see many other Barbarian builds being this fun either.