They do no damage and aren't even a viable meat shields. I know it's a beta and the game is in Normal difficulty but imagine in nightmare / hell / inferno...
Just for reference, some of the monsters in fields of misery can 1 shot your dogs, even if you're level 13.
Edit: Hopefully the double dmg is only a gimmick for beta testers, otherwise it looks kinda grim for the doggies.
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
I agree, Zombie Dogs can barely survive against regular mobs in the beta. I hope they at least scale in health at higher difficulties like the Necro's summons in Diablo 2.
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"We have a hockey stick in one hand, a beer in the other, we all wear toques and live in igloos. Right, world?"
Dogs certainly need a upgrade. Not a very large one though - they do what they are meant to do.
On another note, I don't think Sacrifice should kill all three at once. It's a 60 second cooldown on the dogs.
However, you have passives and other skills that give you the ability to create a continuing wave of zombie dogs. Including the chance to respawn dogs after sacrifice.
They do no damage and aren't even a viable meat shields. I know it's a beta and the game is in Normal difficulty but imagine in nightmare / hell / inferno...
Just for reference, some of the monsters in fields of misery can 1 shot your dogs, even if you're level 13.
Edit: Hopefully the double dmg is only a gimmick for beta testers, otherwise it looks kinda grim for the doggies.
You bitch too much. Zombie dogs isn't meant to be additional characters... its meant to be a spell.. something that DOES need to be be refreshed.
you get Zombie Handler + Jungle fortitude and thats 1.92x damage they can take.
Yeah, it actually sucks that dogs aren't viable "minions" anymore... Though i still have them in my HC build for 10% dmg reduction on char (those 50% earlier were so great... ol' good times :D), and added sacrifice as a big part of a build.
I just think their hp+defense should scale with gear too in addition to damage... Like make them have "20% of your maximum hp and 50% of your defense/resistances" for example. Since Blizz tend to make all skills dependable on current characters stats, that would be nice.
Dogs certainly need a upgrade. Not a very large one though - they do what they are meant to do.
On another note, I don't think Sacrifice should kill all three at once. It's a 60 second cooldown on the dogs.
However, you have passives and other skills that give you the ability to create a continuing wave of zombie dogs. Including the chance to respawn dogs after sacrifice.
They do no damage and aren't even a viable meat shields. I know it's a beta and the game is in Normal difficulty but imagine in nightmare / hell / inferno...
Just for reference, some of the monsters in fields of misery can 1 shot your dogs, even if you're level 13.
Edit: Hopefully the double dmg is only a gimmick for beta testers, otherwise it looks kinda grim for the doggies.
You bitch too much. Zombie dogs isn't meant to be additional characters... its meant to be a spell.. something that DOES need to be be refreshed.
you get Zombie Handler + Jungle fortitude and thats 1.92x damage they can take.
And you make terrilbe comments too much. Did you even consider armor dmg reduction?
Zombie Handler + Jungle fortitude allows the dogs to take 1.5x before death.
Ohh and you can use jungle fortitude in beta.
A = (1 - dmg reduction from armor)
h = health of dogs
x= dmg dogs can take
A*x=h
(1-0.2)*x = 100
x = 125 dmg
Z = zombie handler = 0.8
J = Jungle fortiture increases health of dogs by 20%.
A*Z*x=h*Z
(1-0.2)*0.8*x = 100*1.2
0.64*x =120
x =187.5
187.5/120 = 1.5
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
We have to wait and see how they turn out in later difficulties. Saying that they need a buff just because they die in the beta is not a good enough reason.
We aren't missing any armor, yet they still die at level 13 in a level 7-8 area, even with jungle fortitude. So just how exactly are they going to gain a ton of survivability?
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
The problem with complaining like this, is that you have no basis or credibility in doing so. You have zero knowledge on how pets will scale in terms of difficulty, or if they even will. Do you know how they scale based on statistics? That information would be incredibly relevant to share, if you do.
You also failed to acknowledge the fact that Blizzard has told us the implementation of this "double damage" change is to make the players more accustomed to the difficulty they will face once they hit 20+. They're trying to ease players into what we will know as "normal" (not the difficulty) and not make players have to deal with a huge spike in difficulty. At least based on the way they worded it, thats how it sounds.
@Sabvre
Yes you are correct, zombie handler formerly added 60% life which has since been lowered to 20%. I think the change occurred in patch 13, but it might have been 12.
I would assume that zombie dogs would be more powerful in earlier levels then later (if there is any difference in how strong they are relative to environment). So I don't expect them to become much better, passives or no passives.
It's sad really. I like minion builds, they were my favourite ones in D2. However, maybe the Necromancer will have better minions when he comes back.
If they scale based on our gear in every way, that would make them become sturdier just as the player does, because of armor and vitality. If they also scale based on difficulty we could seem them become better the later into the game we get.
Of course, I don't know about item scaling and I don't think anybody knows about difficulty scaling at this point so its all just speculation.
The fields of misery and other post-gate zones are higher level than the beta stuff. I wouldn't think this would need to be mentioned, but apparently in your mind the game's difficulty doesn't scale at all. Your level-capped zombie dogs are under-leveled for the new zones. Further, zombie dogs aren't supposed to be infinitely sustainable tanks, they're supposed to get killed and need recasting sometimes.
We have to wait and see how they turn out in later difficulties. Saying that they need a buff just because they die in the beta is not a good enough reason.
We aren't missing any armor, yet they still die at level 13 in a level 7-8 area, even with jungle fortitude. So just how exactly are they going to gain a ton of survivability?
I have no idea! hehe. I just think it's a little too early to talk about what should be buffed and what not. You have only played to lvl 13. And the 2x damage was only added to monsters 1-20. Who knows what will happen after that.
The damage increase from 1-20 was to make the change in damage past 20 not seem like such a surprise, the damage doesn't go down, it will continue to rise
Cantor has a good point in that the dogs should not get one shot, if that is the case, since as he pointed out the damage decrease upgrade is available in the beta, what we don't have is the life regen/thorns, and the life leech attack rune effect. These are both "useless" if the dogs are indeed getting one shot though.
I don't think the dogs should be immortal, as in they can take a lot of damage without ever dieing, but I don't think they should be one shot considering their limited damage and long cooldown suggests that they are supposed to be up for long periods of time.
in terms of damage you have to take thorns seriously. remember d3 isn't d2 where everything misses 95% of the time. if you stack thorns items then the passive damage being dished out could be quite high. we don't know for certain yet, but it's potentially very high.
with a 20% damage reduction, 20% hp increase, +thorns/life regen.... i have to imagine the zombie dogs will be great meat shields with smart gear choices. pair that with possible +skill/rune type affixes on gear as well.
Zombie handler could definitely help. Not only does it increase life, but gives them another target to smack. However, it still seems kinda weak.
People who got into the new area said the mobs could 1 shot their dogs. I was never there so, idk. However, I did play in a 2 player game and those giant rock guys always just mowed my dogs down.
It's becoming easier and easier to spot terrible threads nowadays, just look for Jaclashflash's name on the OP.
The fields of misery and other post-gate zones are higher level than the beta stuff. I wouldn't think this would need to be mentioned, but apparently in your mind the game's difficulty doesn't scale at all. Your level-capped zombie dogs are under-leveled for the new zones. Further, zombie dogs aren't supposed to be infinitely sustainable tanks, they're supposed to get killed and need recasting sometimes.
What? You beat the Skeleton king at like lvl 8. You are going to be in those areas the minute after. Level 13 is by no means way too low. There are 3 more acts on normal, and normal is only meant to take you to like level 30.
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
I've played WD from 1 to killing the SK (so 7-9) about 15 or 20 times over the last week or so between HC and SC and the ONLY time the cooldown comes into play is when fighting the SK. Most of these were in 4 player games, a few (3-5ish) were 2 though and none were solo.
Other than that there is far too many health globes for what you're describing to be an issue.
edit: also important to note, all of these playthroughs were with only using items found on THAT playthrough
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Just for reference, some of the monsters in fields of misery can 1 shot your dogs, even if you're level 13.
Edit: Hopefully the double dmg is only a gimmick for beta testers, otherwise it looks kinda grim for the doggies.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
On another note, I don't think Sacrifice should kill all three at once. It's a 60 second cooldown on the dogs.
when you get complete access to minion related passives, runes, and gear they will be viable meatshields and do considerable damage
However, you have passives and other skills that give you the ability to create a continuing wave of zombie dogs. Including the chance to respawn dogs after sacrifice.
9+2% x 4 = 44%... thats not really considerable... but its decent.
You bitch too much. Zombie dogs isn't meant to be additional characters... its meant to be a spell.. something that DOES need to be be refreshed.
you get Zombie Handler + Jungle fortitude and thats 1.92x damage they can take.
And you make terrilbe comments too much. Did you even consider armor dmg reduction?
Zombie Handler + Jungle fortitude allows the dogs to take 1.5x before death.
Ohh and you can use jungle fortitude in beta.
A = (1 - dmg reduction from armor)
h = health of dogs
x= dmg dogs can take
A*x=h
(1-0.2)*x = 100
x = 125 dmg
Z = zombie handler = 0.8
J = Jungle fortiture increases health of dogs by 20%.
A*Z*x=h*Z
(1-0.2)*0.8*x = 100*1.2
0.64*x =120
x =187.5
187.5/120 = 1.5
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
We aren't missing any armor, yet they still die at level 13 in a level 7-8 area, even with jungle fortitude. So just how exactly are they going to gain a ton of survivability?
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
I was wrong on my zombie handler passive... for some reason i was thinking it was 60% more life... was it ever that?
However, the math is a lot simpler.
Life = 1 * 1.2 (Zombie Handler) \ .8 (Jungle Fortitude) = 1.5.
You also failed to acknowledge the fact that Blizzard has told us the implementation of this "double damage" change is to make the players more accustomed to the difficulty they will face once they hit 20+. They're trying to ease players into what we will know as "normal" (not the difficulty) and not make players have to deal with a huge spike in difficulty. At least based on the way they worded it, thats how it sounds.
@Sabvre
Yes you are correct, zombie handler formerly added 60% life which has since been lowered to 20%. I think the change occurred in patch 13, but it might have been 12.
If they scale based on our gear in every way, that would make them become sturdier just as the player does, because of armor and vitality. If they also scale based on difficulty we could seem them become better the later into the game we get.
Of course, I don't know about item scaling and I don't think anybody knows about difficulty scaling at this point so its all just speculation.
The damage increase from 1-20 was to make the change in damage past 20 not seem like such a surprise, the damage doesn't go down, it will continue to rise
Cantor has a good point in that the dogs should not get one shot, if that is the case, since as he pointed out the damage decrease upgrade is available in the beta, what we don't have is the life regen/thorns, and the life leech attack rune effect. These are both "useless" if the dogs are indeed getting one shot though.
I don't think the dogs should be immortal, as in they can take a lot of damage without ever dieing, but I don't think they should be one shot considering their limited damage and long cooldown suggests that they are supposed to be up for long periods of time.
with a 20% damage reduction, 20% hp increase, +thorns/life regen.... i have to imagine the zombie dogs will be great meat shields with smart gear choices. pair that with possible +skill/rune type affixes on gear as well.
Zombie handler could definitely help. Not only does it increase life, but gives them another target to smack. However, it still seems kinda weak.
People who got into the new area said the mobs could 1 shot their dogs. I was never there so, idk. However, I did play in a 2 player game and those giant rock guys always just mowed my dogs down.
What? You beat the Skeleton king at like lvl 8. You are going to be in those areas the minute after. Level 13 is by no means way too low. There are 3 more acts on normal, and normal is only meant to take you to like level 30.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Other than that there is far too many health globes for what you're describing to be an issue.
edit: also important to note, all of these playthroughs were with only using items found on THAT playthrough