I have doubts that the RMT AH will have the desired effect of negating an item becoming currency, and until blizzard discloses how much they will charge to post an item it will be hard to see how profitable and the state of the RMT AH. I hope it will be affordable i would prefer to have everything at a reasonable price than hundreds of dollars.
I would have been fine, ecstatic, if it were just a normal in-game gold based AH. But like the OP said, Blizzard "legalizing" the ability to spend cash for items... that's a deal breaker. Sorry, but I just may not play the game for this very one reason. QQ and tell me to get over it, I don't care. You are the ones that will end up spending money on virtual items, and I'll be the one LOL'ing at you in the end.
I'm personally bothered about it more because it is literally, an "automatic money printing machine". (innacurate quote from TotalBiscuit).
I would have been fine, ecstatic, if it were just a normal in-game gold based AH. But like the OP said, Blizzard "legalizing" the ability to spend cash for items... that's a deal breaker. Sorry, but I just may not play the game for this very one reason. QQ and tell me to get over it, I don't care. You are the ones that will end up spending money on virtual items, and I'll be the one LOL'ing at you in the end.
How will I be spending money? I will be free rolling in a real money AH? Eventually being able to get free games from blizzards store. While I LOL at you buying future games from your local store...
I would have been fine, ecstatic, if it were just a normal in-game gold based AH. But like the OP said, Blizzard "legalizing" the ability to spend cash for items... that's a deal breaker. Sorry, but I just may not play the game for this very one reason. QQ and tell me to get over it, I don't care. You are the ones that will end up spending money on virtual items, and I'll be the one LOL'ing at you in the end.
How will I be spending money? I will be free rolling in a real money AH? Eventually being able to get free games from blizzards store. While I LOL at you buying future games from your local store...
Good luck accomplishing that. I'll laugh at all of you when you start to QQ because you can't compete against chinese farmers. You will most likely miss 2-3 Blizzard releases (which take 5+ years to launch) by the time you gather enough money to buy a game. Unless, of course, you are one of those dumb ***** that will sell a godly useful item just for profit instead of saving it for your own chars.
I would have been fine, ecstatic, if it were just a normal in-game gold based AH. But like the OP said, Blizzard "legalizing" the ability to spend cash for items... that's a deal breaker. Sorry, but I just may not play the game for this very one reason. QQ and tell me to get over it, I don't care. You are the ones that will end up spending money on virtual items, and I'll be the one LOL'ing at you in the end.
implying that just because I can spend money for items in-game that I'll actually spend money for items in-game. Seriously, I will be the one laughing when I'm playing and enjoying the game, completely ignoring the AH, and one day see your character somewhere online. I was indifferent when I read about $AH and it doesn't faze me at all. Now I'm actually glad they are doing it because so many people are complaining about such a small thing and saying they wont buy the game (lol@this). Hopefully. It means I will not have to deal with people that blow up over unimportant things (no offense).
Anyway, ignoring the above, can anyone explain to me why buying items is such a big deal in the first place? Are all the people complaining just pvpers, because I don't understand how this would affect the pve aspect at all other then killing bosses quicker I suppose.
If I can earn myself a D3 Expansion ,Starcraft II or any other future titles from playing a game I know I will already enjoy...Then awesome. Sounds like a great meta game to me.
I will play PVP no matter what. Just because someone buys good gear does not mean they are going to have good builds, be a good player or play that often as they will most likely be casual players.
I will still probably have better gear than most buyers anyway if I play more. I will have perfect gems, top tier runes, a stash full of items for different level characters who play PVP level brackets etc. For them to have the same would cost them way too much.
Will hardcore and softcore characters have separated AH’s is my only question?
I believe that bashiock stated that there will be different AH for hardcore and softcore, also hardcore will not have a RMT AH (something along the lines of not wanting people to pay for an item they can potentially lose permanently). I'd try and find the post but...I'm just too lazy Hope this helps
It's nice that they attempted to put people's fears to rest, but clearly a large number of people are completely willing to make up a bunch of "facts" and numbers to justify their own points of view. For the majority of people that are extremely upset about this, a logical argument won't satisfy them.
For anyone else who is worried about real money driving things in-game, speak with your dollars then by not purchasing the game. The only real way for customers to sway company's business practices is by purchasing things vs not purchasing things.
I would have been fine, ecstatic, if it were just a normal in-game gold based AH. But like the OP said, Blizzard "legalizing" the ability to spend cash for items... that's a deal breaker. Sorry, but I just may not play the game for this very one reason. QQ and tell me to get over it, I don't care. You are the ones that will end up spending money on virtual items, and I'll be the one LOL'ing at you in the end.
How will I be spending money? I will be free rolling in a real money AH? Eventually being able to get free games from blizzards store. While I LOL at you buying future games from your local store...
Good luck accomplishing that. I'll laugh at all of you when you start to QQ because you can't compete against chink farmers. You will most likely miss 2-3 Blizzard releases (which take 5+ years to launch) by the time you gather enough money to buy a game. Unless, of course, you are one of those dumb ***** that will sell a godly useful item just for profit instead of saving it for your own chars.
The “chink farmers” will not really have an edge in a market that everyone can compete in...It’s no longer just a 3rd party company that can sell items. People can easily see what things are selling for and then just undercut the marginal price to be almost sure of a sale.
If I have 3 of the same godly items, then I will probably sell 1 or 2 of them rather than them collecting dust in my stash.
Outstanding write-up P, very level-headed, solid presentation of both sides of the argument.
There's one element at play here that I've been tossing around in me gulliver. And it is the effect that no skill points will have on the RMAH. wtf am I talking about? Read on...
I'm gonna spell out what I think is a very plausible medium-term evolution of the game.
Phase 1: The "omg omg omg" phase. Excitement high. Impulsive buying high. Supply low. Races for leetdom drive market into wildly fluctuating highs and lows. Currency and exchange rates will be unpredictable. Farmers and market gamers will exploit volatility, but everyone is happy because of the excitement/impulsivity response.
Phase 2: Steady state phase. Players start to reach level cap. The markets start to flood with un-needed legendary quality items. As players realize how to capitalize on Market forces, arbitrage and exchange rates, gold will flood into the market as well. This will spark a period of fairly noticeable inflation, driven mainly by demand but also by the influx of currency and its ensuing manipulation.
Phase 3: Deflation, Level Cap and Balance. Here's where no skill points comes in. As players hit 60, and power-level alts to 60 (an activity encouraged by the devs), most serious gamers will have level-capped and geared all the characters they're interested in during the steady state phase.
But what now? Since your 1 character type can perpetually swap skills, there will be effectively NO reason to keep leveling alts of the same character type.. Just swap out skills! Thus, demand for high-end gear, normally fed by a constant influx of freshly leveled alts, will necessarily PLUMMET. Hard.
This will kick off a period of FIERCE DEFLATION. Why? Obviously demand will drop like it's hot, but also, gold will start being used for crafting instead of market gamesmanship for items everyone already has, so currency markets will seize up.
The only thing that could keep a fresh influx of characters is the hardcore scene, but it's confirmed that hardcore chars can only trade using the in-game gold AH (which should tell you something).
Once it's obvious that deflation is here to stay, with a little bit of luck, the farmers will go f*** off to game economies with greener pastures, leaving an intact, in-game gold economy for the actual Diablo players.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."
-Thomas Jefferson
I would have been fine, ecstatic, if it were just a normal in-game gold based AH. But like the OP said, Blizzard "legalizing" the ability to spend cash for items... that's a deal breaker. Sorry, but I just may not play the game for this very one reason. QQ and tell me to get over it, I don't care. You are the ones that will end up spending money on virtual items, and I'll be the one LOL'ing at you in the end.
How will I be spending money? I will be free rolling in a real money AH? Eventually being able to get free games from blizzards store. While I LOL at you buying future games from your local store...
Good luck accomplishing that. I'll laugh at all of you when you start to QQ because you can't compete against chink farmers. You will most likely miss 2-3 Blizzard releases (which take 5+ years to launch) by the time you gather enough money to buy a game. Unless, of course, you are one of those dumb ***** that will sell a godly useful item just for profit instead of saving it for your own chars.
Nice to have racist bigots like you in the Diablo 3 community. Just feels great! I mean there was an option to call them "Chinese farmers" or "Chink farmers" and you went with the latter.
Also your concerns are pretty retarded (like yourself i must add). Real money transactions for virtual items happened in Diablo 2 and it was A ) Not monitored B ) Was under the direct control of Gold Farming companies/ Virtual botting companies C ) IP Issues in which outside companies were making money off Blizzard's product (This is an issue that NO entertainment company will forgo lightly).
The Real money AH is simple to understand: It is player-driven. Players must obtain an item first before it can be counted as being part of the 'economy'. If Blizzard was selling items for real money then it would devalue everything in the game. Also I have been hearing countless posters saying "You can get geared with just a credit card". I do not see this as an issue besides PvP. Diablo 3 is not a very competitive game (which I think is part of its popularity). As long as they have some function limiting cash-bought items making their way into arenas then I am fine with it.
This is a huge deal for many people but as many have pointed out before it has happened before and it will happen again. Those who wish to spend real money on items will be able to. Those who wish to just play the game and only use their gold/items they find to play then they may.
Outstanding write-up P, very level-headed, solid presentation of both sides of the argument.
There's one element at play here that I've been tossing around in me gulliver. And it is the effect that no skill points will have on the RMAH. wtf am I talking about? Read on...
I'm gonna spell out what I think is a very plausible medium-term evolution of the game.
Phase 1: The "omg omg omg" phase. Excitement high. Impulsive buying high. Supply low. Races for leetdom drive market into wildly fluctuating highs and lows. Currency and exchange rates will be unpredictable. Farmers and market gamers will exploit volatility, but everyone is happy because of the excitement/impulsivity response.
Phase 2: Steady state phase. Players start to reach level cap. The markets start to flood with un-needed legendary quality items. As players realize how to capitalize on Market forces, arbitrage and exchange rates, gold will flood into the market as well. This will spark a period of fairly noticeable inflation, driven mainly by demand but also by the influx of currency and its ensuing manipulation.
Phase 3: Deflation, Level Cap and Balance. Here's where no skill points comes in. As players hit 60, and power-level alts to 60 (an activity encouraged by the devs), most serious gamers will have level-capped and geared all the characters they're interested in during the steady state phase.
But what now? Since your 1 character type can perpetually swap skills, there will be effectively NO reason to keep leveling alts of the same character type.. Just swap out skills! Thus, demand for high-end gear, normally fed by a constant influx of freshly leveled alts, will necessarily PLUMMET. Hard.
This will kick off a period of FIERCE DEFLATION. Why? Obviously demand will drop like it's hot, but also, gold will start being used for crafting instead of market gamesmanship for items everyone already has, so currency markets will seize up.
The only thing that could keep a fresh influx of characters is the hardcore scene, but it's confirmed that hardcore chars can only trade using the in-game gold AH (which should tell you something).
Once it's obvious that deflation is here to stay, with a little bit of luck, the farmers will go f*** off to game economies with greener pastures, leaving an intact, in-game gold economy for the actual Diablo players.
This will only happen if new items are not introduced into the game fast enough and cookie cutter builds are developed for every class.
With the amount of different skills with 6 skill slots and the number of runewstones that can completely change a skill, there is no telling how long a set of cookie cutter builds will be created.
It would be awesome if that happened, but with free respects and an almost infinite number of skill builds the demand will probably never go away. Not to mention that each skill is now viable, its now just a matter of figuring out which are the best with what runes.
PhrozenDragon, can I thank you for taking the time to write this? I tried to explain this to people earlier on the forum and it was completely overlooked, or worse, rejected as wrong. Especially this part:
It doesn't matter which AH you end up using anyway
What did you say? Each piece of gold dropped will be worth a certain amount of real money? Not only does this mean that you are tecnically making money as you play, it also means that whether you use the gold AH or the cash AH will be irrelevant. The concept is called Arbitrage, and for those of you not accustomed to economics I'll explain how it works.
Let's say that I find a legendary axe that I don't need and thus want to sell. I can either sell it for gold or e-balance. Looking in the AH, I see that there are incidentally ten axes, five in each AH, currently up for sale: five go for 2000g and the other five for $20. But I decide to see what gold sells for, and I quickly see that 200g costs $1 in the cash AH. Afterwards I proceed to sell my legendary axe for $19, which the sold for gold will be 19*200=3,800g
That's arbitrage, the possibility to profit due to price imbalances in different markets. Even if I didn't want cash, it's still a better option for me to use the cash AH under these circumstances, since it gives me more gold. The next thing I do is naturaly to buy the other five legendary axes for 2,000g each, sell them for $19 again, essentially giving me 5*(3,800-2,000)=9,000g profit without having killed a single monster.
This will of course not last, since eventually other people will figure out that the legendary axe is underpriced in the gold AH and correctly adjust their prices. I probably couldn't even have sold those five axes for $19 again, since I essentially bombed the market by doubling the supply of those axes. But that is exactly the point. This kind of equilization will happen continuously across all different items for sale in the two markets, and will work to create a stable exchange rate between gold and $. And when that has happened, it won't really matter which of them you decide to trade in. Even if you consider yourself a purist and never so much as look at the cash AH, the prices you see for items there should be same as those seen in the cash AH.
Perfect equilibrium is generally upset by various factors such as transportation costs, taxes, varying legislations between markets, expiration dates on products etc. In the future Diablo economy many of these are removed: the the flat fees applied to purchases are a transaction cost and will generate some imbalances between the markets, but that's about it. In the end, it will matter little which one you actually use.
After having calmly read all the information I've found on the subject, it seems that Blizzard must already have a plan to deal with the Farmers (no ethnicity need apply to that term).
This quote from a blue post sums it up pretty neatly
Not all regions will support this advanced feature at launch. Region-specific details, as well as details regarding which third-party payment services will be supported and the fee that Blizzard will charge for the cash-out process, will all be provided at a later date.
They don't even have to allow the cash-out in a farmer's region, or may not even be allowed to depending on the applicable laws. Not to mention that the AH's are region bound.
All above would have been right IF both AH have the same items, coz in my opinion no1 will put a LEGENDARY AXE in gold AH as for you to buy it and re-sell it in real money... ALL RARE items after some point will be buy/sold in Real Money AH.
So YES IS DOES MATTER... real money > in game gold.
Sry i dont know the term in economics for it iam just an Engineer
Well if you read what he said he explained why you would see that Legendary item on both AH's, and that reason simplified is that you can sell gold on the cash AH.
And the term you're looking for might be 'comprehension.'
I'm going to have to switch my position of "yay" for this to "nay". But, I'm still not a full on hater, but, I can understand the cons more clearly now. I'm 60/40 yay vs nay respectively for the new changes. Maybe 70/30.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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www.nerdyblog.com - Great website and great Diablo III streams and Skype chat!
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How will I be spending money? I will be free rolling in a real money AH? Eventually being able to get free games from blizzards store. While I LOL at you buying future games from your local store...
Good luck accomplishing that. I'll laugh at all of you when you start to QQ because you can't compete against chinese farmers. You will most likely miss 2-3 Blizzard releases (which take 5+ years to launch) by the time you gather enough money to buy a game. Unless, of course, you are one of those dumb ***** that will sell a godly useful item just for profit instead of saving it for your own chars.
implying that just because I can spend money for items in-game that I'll actually spend money for items in-game. Seriously, I will be the one laughing when I'm playing and enjoying the game, completely ignoring the AH, and one day see your character somewhere online. I was indifferent when I read about $AH and it doesn't faze me at all. Now I'm actually glad they are doing it because so many people are complaining about such a small thing and saying they wont buy the game (lol@this). Hopefully. It means I will not have to deal with people that blow up over unimportant things (no offense).
Anyway, ignoring the above, can anyone explain to me why buying items is such a big deal in the first place? Are all the people complaining just pvpers, because I don't understand how this would affect the pve aspect at all other then killing bosses quicker I suppose.
I believe that bashiock stated that there will be different AH for hardcore and softcore, also hardcore will not have a RMT AH (something along the lines of not wanting people to pay for an item they can potentially lose permanently). I'd try and find the post but...I'm just too lazy Hope this helps
For anyone else who is worried about real money driving things in-game, speak with your dollars then by not purchasing the game. The only real way for customers to sway company's business practices is by purchasing things vs not purchasing things.
The “chink farmers” will not really have an edge in a market that everyone can compete in...It’s no longer just a 3rd party company that can sell items. People can easily see what things are selling for and then just undercut the marginal price to be almost sure of a sale.
If I have 3 of the same godly items, then I will probably sell 1 or 2 of them rather than them collecting dust in my stash.
http://www.petitiononline.com/d3art/petition.html
There's one element at play here that I've been tossing around in me gulliver. And it is the effect that no skill points will have on the RMAH. wtf am I talking about? Read on...
I'm gonna spell out what I think is a very plausible medium-term evolution of the game.
Phase 1: The "omg omg omg" phase. Excitement high. Impulsive buying high. Supply low. Races for leetdom drive market into wildly fluctuating highs and lows. Currency and exchange rates will be unpredictable. Farmers and market gamers will exploit volatility, but everyone is happy because of the excitement/impulsivity response.
Phase 2: Steady state phase. Players start to reach level cap. The markets start to flood with un-needed legendary quality items. As players realize how to capitalize on Market forces, arbitrage and exchange rates, gold will flood into the market as well. This will spark a period of fairly noticeable inflation, driven mainly by demand but also by the influx of currency and its ensuing manipulation.
Phase 3: Deflation, Level Cap and Balance. Here's where no skill points comes in. As players hit 60, and power-level alts to 60 (an activity encouraged by the devs), most serious gamers will have level-capped and geared all the characters they're interested in during the steady state phase.
But what now? Since your 1 character type can perpetually swap skills, there will be effectively NO reason to keep leveling alts of the same character type.. Just swap out skills! Thus, demand for high-end gear, normally fed by a constant influx of freshly leveled alts, will necessarily PLUMMET. Hard.
This will kick off a period of FIERCE DEFLATION. Why? Obviously demand will drop like it's hot, but also, gold will start being used for crafting instead of market gamesmanship for items everyone already has, so currency markets will seize up.
The only thing that could keep a fresh influx of characters is the hardcore scene, but it's confirmed that hardcore chars can only trade using the in-game gold AH (which should tell you something).
Once it's obvious that deflation is here to stay, with a little bit of luck, the farmers will go f*** off to game economies with greener pastures, leaving an intact, in-game gold economy for the actual Diablo players.
-Thomas Jefferson
Nice to have racist bigots like you in the Diablo 3 community. Just feels great! I mean there was an option to call them "Chinese farmers" or "Chink farmers" and you went with the latter.
Also your concerns are pretty retarded (like yourself i must add). Real money transactions for virtual items happened in Diablo 2 and it was A ) Not monitored B ) Was under the direct control of Gold Farming companies/ Virtual botting companies C ) IP Issues in which outside companies were making money off Blizzard's product (This is an issue that NO entertainment company will forgo lightly).
The Real money AH is simple to understand: It is player-driven. Players must obtain an item first before it can be counted as being part of the 'economy'. If Blizzard was selling items for real money then it would devalue everything in the game. Also I have been hearing countless posters saying "You can get geared with just a credit card". I do not see this as an issue besides PvP. Diablo 3 is not a very competitive game (which I think is part of its popularity). As long as they have some function limiting cash-bought items making their way into arenas then I am fine with it.
This is a huge deal for many people but as many have pointed out before it has happened before and it will happen again. Those who wish to spend real money on items will be able to. Those who wish to just play the game and only use their gold/items they find to play then they may.
I just do not see how this is a "deal-breaker"
This will only happen if new items are not introduced into the game fast enough and cookie cutter builds are developed for every class.
With the amount of different skills with 6 skill slots and the number of runewstones that can completely change a skill, there is no telling how long a set of cookie cutter builds will be created.
It would be awesome if that happened, but with free respects and an almost infinite number of skill builds the demand will probably never go away. Not to mention that each skill is now viable, its now just a matter of figuring out which are the best with what runes.
hear hear!
-Thomas Jefferson
Thank you again. +1!!!!
This quote from a blue post sums it up pretty neatly
They don't even have to allow the cash-out in a farmer's region, or may not even be allowed to depending on the applicable laws. Not to mention that the AH's are region bound.
Well if you read what he said he explained why you would see that Legendary item on both AH's, and that reason simplified is that you can sell gold on the cash AH.
And the term you're looking for might be 'comprehension.'
www.nerdyblog.com - Great website and great Diablo III streams and Skype chat!
www.nerdyblog.com - Great website and great Diablo III streams and Skype chat!