However, in the case of Frenzy it has competition. Bash has a rune that gives 80% with more up front damage. Cleave has much higher upfront damage and tons of AoE damage.
The bash rune takes 2.15 times longer to receive 2/3 of the bonus damage that frenzy provides. Frenzy will also make skills like hammer of the ancients faster too. I dont see how bash really compares, maybe stack them together? xD +200 from bash/frenzy and 100 from battle rage lol.
Battle Rage stands alone though, because you don't have to trade anything (besides other Battle Rage runes)to get the 100% bonus. It is up for 30 seconds, which may as well be forever in Diablo.
So Frenzy isn't really an issue. I don't see a solution to Battle Rage however. Every Barb will need it unless they have a special build that definitely requires 6 other skills.
And this is a major problem, because every single build that doesn't use crimson battle rage will never match its (sustained) damage. This does not in any way promote diverse builds, which is the entire point of the design of the skill/rune system.
Ok, we'll do straight math. I'm sure everyone already knows the whole 5x5=25 is better than 9x1 = 9 argument you've made above. The crazy biased build was to draw attention to how radical damage outputs can be when basic runes on the same skills are changed.
I would like to clarify that the point of removing most of the crit from the damage build was to simply make it a damage build, whereas the crit build abused the high crit% increasing runes.
At any rate, one thing I was trying to point out is just how ridiculous the formulas make skills like battle rage/wizard's familiar/whatever. With crimson battle rage, and crimson frenzy in PVE, there is no other combination of skills that allows the barb to reach the raw damage.
The 500 attack/crit damage barb with these abilities and a modest 60% crit rate will do 6,600 non-crit damage with a 100% weapon damage move.
It would take 2640 attack for the non-crit barb to do that much damage with a non-crit attack using a 100% weapon damage move....
That is of course, unless they utilize the formulas (the thing this topic is about) that completely centralize the stats that builds need to obtain in order to do damage. Add crimson to battle rage/frezny, you suddenly do more than TRIPPLE your previous damage. What other sustainable skills does the barb has that allows any of the other billions of builds to compete with this? What I'm trying to say is that you must abuse the formulas to get damage, otherwise you wont.
Battle Rage isn't going to triple your damage. Please take a look at my math or run the numbers again. It will double your damage. That is it. Wherever you put battle rage into the equation it will never multiply end damage by more than 2.
I am not saying that isn't a lot, but overstating the difference by 100-500% is not helpful.
Battle rage and frenzy is +220% damage. that brings 1000 to 3200 which is over triple.
Ok, we'll do straight math. I'm sure everyone already knows the whole 5x5=25 is better than 9x1 = 9 argument you've made above. The crazy biased build was to draw attention to how radical damage outputs can be when basic runes on the same skills are changed.
I would like to clarify that the point of removing most of the crit from the damage build was to simply make it a damage build, whereas the crit build abused the high crit% increasing runes.
At any rate, one thing I was trying to point out is just how ridiculous the formulas make skills like battle rage/wizard's familiar/whatever.
With crimson battle rage, and crimson frenzy in PVE, there is no other combination of skills that allows the barb to reach the raw damage.
The 500 attack/crit damage barb with these abilities will do 6,600 non-crit damage with a 100% weapon damage move, keep in mind that 60% crit rate is nearly automatic with certain PvE setups.
It would take 2640 attack attacks for any barb that doesn't get those two specific skills in order to do that much damage with a non-crit attack using a 100% weapon damage move.... When the crit is added, it's even more of a joke just how pointless it is to build anything aside from crit and "increases all damage by x%."
This is why I am stating that the formulas blizzard have chosen have already centralized the stats that need to be obtained to do damage. There is no reason to diverge from doing over tripple damage automatically by using these rune sets.
That is of course, unless they utilize the formulas (the thing this topic is about) that completely centralize the stats that builds need to obtain in order to do damage. Add crimson to battle rage/frezny, you suddenly do more than TRIPPLE your previous damage. What other sustainable skills does the barb have that allows any of the other billions of builds to compete with this? What I'm trying to say is that you must abuse the formulas to get damage, otherwise you wont.
Also, there is is a big error in the math(as opposed to build bias). Your second build supposedly has 900 attack, yet the base hit is almost exactly half(basically minus Rage) that of the crit build that has only 500 attack. You need to factor in 400 attack into Build # 2.
I'm glad this was noticed. As far as I can tell, it is true that the build with 900 attack will do LESS damage than the build with 500 attack, just because of the way damage is calculated in the builds. This is what I am trying to bring attention towards, and I find it ridiculous.
You put a lot of effort into a horribly biased test.
It is intentionally biased. One build is based off of crits, the other is based off of having a high attack attribute. It does not change the fact that with the way damage is calculated, damage can literally be doubled, trippled, or more, just by choosing different runes on the same build. IMO this ability to literally multiply the total damage of everything you do with one skill/rune does not add variety to builds, it forces you to pick those skills/runes so that you can do as much damage as possible. Because of crits multiplying everything and "increases all damage" multiplying everything, it seems optimal builds will revolve around using these exponentially damage increasing formulas.
There is no reason to replace battle rage with rend for the purposes of the test(especially when you don't include rend in your math), and really no reason to take out Crimson Rune out of Overpower and put Obsidian in it's place to see the difference in +Crit Damage.
Rend was included in the calculations. The runes were changed to differentiate the crit build from a non-crit build. The Obsidian rune in Overpower will heal the barb. I did not say for how much, but considering it's purpose, and the results of the calculations from raw damage, it is possible that the damage version of Overpower will heal more then the healing version of Overpower just because of how insane the calcualtions are. Yes the example is extreme, intentionally.
Lastly, going by your own test results, you(the streamer) did not test out hammer of the ancients on the same mobs. First you state a non-crit hammer did 68-69, and then further in the post you go on to say that with Battle Rage on, hammer did 50 non-crit. Then you further went to explain that the Battle Rage Hammer crit was 1.3 times the non-rage hammer, yet obviously you used it on separate enemies which invalidates the numbers.
Lol, that was a typo. It's fixed now. I litrally got home from work and posted this with the data I wrote down while watching the stream earlier today. I didn't check for typos because I took a nap xD. My bad.
If you have ever made a build using the skill calculator you will want to read this whole post. It is very relevant to your interests!
So I was watching a stream today, and requested that the streamer do some tests so that we could determine the formula for critical hits!! He actually agreed to do the tests and we figured out the formula for critical hits and skills that "increase you damage" by x%.
These are the tests we did:
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Using a barb with a weapon that adds +30% crit damage. We received these results from attacking:
Regular attack (no skills at all) non-crits did 38-39 damage.
With a crit they did 68-69. This means that either 80% of damage was added, or the total damage was multiplied by 1.8.
Using hammer of the ancients, a non-crit did 68-69 damage. Expected result, because HoA multiplies your base damage by 1.8.
Now the important part! A crit hammer of the ancients did 123 damage. This is proof that critical damage bonuses multiply your TOTAL damage. If it were to multiply its bonus by your skill's base damage, it would have done 99 damage.
We then tested Hammer of the ancients with battle rage turned on!
Non-crit hammer of the ancients with battle rage on did 86-88 damage.
Critical hit Hammer of the ancients with battle rage on did 160-164 damage. This is 1.3 times the damage of a critical hit without battle rage on.
This means that skills that make you "deal x% more damage" multiply your TOTAL damage by this number.
To me, this is very disappointing.... At first glance, it tells me that in order to do any decent damage, you must invest in crit or skills that "increase your damage by x%" otherwise you will simply be outclassed by players who are multiplying their entire damage by these attributes....
Warning: two bad/biased barb builds below. Each has the exact same stat total, fury generation, and the exact same ability to spend fury. I shall compare the difference in what they do due to learning the formulas of critical hits and +increased damage.... One build is intentionally aiming for crits, whereas the other is intentionally aiming for high damage without crits, and instead of using battle rage (which is basically a passive skill that subtracts fury. fun fun), it's utilizing [insert skill here], which, thanks to the formulas, will never allow any other sustainable skill, or perhaps even burst skill, to compete with the sustainable damage provided by these formulas.
For each build. Both barbs have the same skills with different runes.
We are going to assume that items with +attack bonuses reach the same relative bonuses as items with +critical damage to them. This is assumed because in the beta, items that give +attack (say an item with +20 attack) also can be found with the exact same numerical bonuses for +critical damage (an item with +20% critical damage).
Each barb will have the same total bonuses when combining attack with bonus crit damage and the same weapon damage.
Each barb will do one retaliate, one overpower and two hammers of the ancients and is assumed to be already in the action with all applied bonuses (frenzy stacks, battle rage, overpower/revenge bonuses).
Build #1. The crit/increase damage build:
Made up build, with realistic end game stats:
500 attack, +500% critical damage (1000 total relevant stats), enough precision for a 10% base crit chance, 10% lifesteal from items (20% total when the passive bloodthirst is included), weapon damage of 250.
Overpower: 7,200 non-crit, 43,200 crit. With 63% crit chance, this averages 29,160 damage and 5,832 health restored per Overpower.
Revenge: 7,200 non-crit, 43,200 crit. With 63% crit chance, this averages 29,160 damage and 5,832 health restored per Revenge.
Hammer of the Ancients: 19,008 non-crit, 114,048 crit. With 78% crit chance, this averages 93,138 damage and 18,627 health restored per hammer. Multiply by 2 hammers of the ancients is 18,6276 damage and 37,255 healed.
Total from all four attacks is: 244,596 damage and 48,919 healed.
Build #2. Same skills (except for rend), different runes, ignoring the crit/increased damage bonus aspect.
Made up build, with realistic end game stats:
900 attack (since it's a non-crit build) and +100% critical damage (1000 total relevant stats), enough precision for a 10% base crit chance, 10% lifesteal from items (20% total when the passive bloodthirst is included), weapon damage of 250.
Overpower: 3,750 non-crit, 7,500 crit. With 20% crit chance, this averages 4,500 damage and 900 health restored (plus 18% of max health) per Overpower.
Revenge: 6,375 non-crit, 12,750 crit. With 20% chance to crit, this averages 7,650 damage and 1530 health restored per Revenge.
Hammer of the ancients: 9,900 non-crit, 19,800 crit. With 35% chance to crit, this averages 13,365 damage and 2,673 health restored per hammer. Multiply by 2 hammers of the ancients is 26,730 damage and 5,346 healed.
Let's add a rend in there just because. No one has tested if dots can crit, so we'll say it does 9,225 over 3 seconds and heals for 1,845.
Total from all four attacks (plus the rend, I guess) is: 48,105 damage and 9,621 healed.
This crit build does over 5 times the damage of the pure attack/non-crit build. It also most likely heals for far more, despite the other build incorporating healing runes.
What does this tell us?
Basically, because of the way damage is calculated, you can literally double, triple, or more, all of your damage just by using the formulas to your advantage. At first glance it appears that optimal builds will revolve around abusing the formulas instead of actually choosing skills that have specific/niche uses/etc that compliment the character. It appears to add far less variety. I would like to hear what people have to say.
It would be an incredibly useful piece of information if an F&F player could do some tests to see how two important mechanics work! People have been using the skill calc to make mach builds, but all the time are assuming they know how two vague descriptions actually work.
It wold be great if someone could test how crit works, and how skills like the barb's battle rage/wizard's glass cannon work, each of which "increases damage."
It's important to know because some believe crits multiply total damage whereas some believe it multiplies base damage. Each possibility would have completely different outcomes in terms of how much damage someone would deal.
Someone please test these mechanics. I think the simplest way would be to use a barb with a weapon that has +minimum damage. Try to get the minimum and the maximum damage to be as close together as possible.
While hitting the same monster type, here are the steps that I believe will get the best results:
Find out your average non-critical damage while using regular attacks. Do not use any skills like bash or battle rage etc.
Find out your average critical damage without using any skills/buffs as well. The quotient between the two will give you the base multiplier that a crit offers, OR it will give you the damage bonus that a crit offers. The next test will determine which is true!
Next, use a skill like Hammer of the ancients. Your non-critical damage will obviously be 1.8 times your average weapon damage. Your critical damage will either end up being 1.8 your weapon damage MULTIPLIED by the quotient from the previous test, OR it will be 1.8 times weapon damage ADDED to the damage bonus received from a crit.
The next test is to do the same thing, this time with battle rage active. Your non-critical hits with hammer of the ancients will either do (weapon damage * 1.8)*1.3 OR (weapon damage * 2.1)
Doing the same thing with a crit will tell us what critical hits will tell us if critical hits interact with any of these factors in any way.
I don't know about that with meteor I got the same value for damage on it Liverymen. Your damage for disintegrate is high if we are using the same factor but I took into account the chance to critical which on Diablo wiki says it is 50% the damage. We have to put the numbers up. That Meteor you just said was total of 4 seconds, initial damage then the second damage. disintegrate using your numbers of 770 X 4 seconds would be between 2448-3080. So the damage is still higher in the same amount of time, but your numbers are all higher than mine, getting my previous calculations...
Meteor cost too high, good for one hit wonder if you can hit and if it does the max damage but Arcane torrent with Disintegrate will do more damage in the same amount of time, throw in the supposed cast time of 3 seconds for meteor and ease of missing and lower chance of critical compared to disintegrate. Trash.
Arcane Dynamo: Why do this spell when you can do Arcane Torrent with crimson rune and get 120% more damage with arcane spells for 6 seconds. Trash.
No one has stated any proof of what "120% additional damage from arcane attacks" means. I think many assume that means the target will take 1 +1.2x damage from arcane spells. I personally believe it will mean that your arcane spells will have an extra 120% bonus added the their base power. It's essentially the same as having 120 of the attack attribute added to arcane spells only.
Basically an unmodified disintegrate on a wizard with 500 attack will deal 510-642 per second. The 120% bonus arcane damage will increase it to 612-770 per second.
The same wizard with no runes to meteor will still deal 1278-1746 plus 168-258 per second afterwards.
I highly doubt arcane torrent's bonus damage ability will allow it to severely outclass the wizard's strongest spell (aside from archon transformation).
Also: Wizards have so much ability to recover arcane power. With signature spells granting up to 26 arcane power per use without even critting... I have a feeling that meteor WILL be spammable.
There are a lot of misconceptions about how crit damage works. Some say it "doubles your damage" or increases your damage by whatever %. I believe many have been misinterpreting the phrases that wikis/other people provide. So I will attempt to clear up misinterpretations with my poor wording <3.
From what we do know:
Attack increases all base damage by 1% per point. Your skill's base damage will be multiplied by 1 plus this value.
IE:
A wizard with 500 attack has blizzard, which does 57-78 per tick. 500 attack will increase the damage to 285-390 per tick.
What about crits? No one has bothered to give a formula yet, but let's say for example that a basic, unmodified crit damage does 50% more damage.
Ok! Now Let's say our 500 attack wizard has 400% critical damage crits with his blizzard! What will happen?
Well, we know that we have a 285-390 damage blizzard, so let's just multiply this by four! This gives us 1140-1560 per tick.
Crits are pretty valuable, eh?
In all honesty, I do not think that is how crits work. I've heard people say they double your damage, so +critical damage will make it more than double!!
This is an absurd assumption. Why? Because it would make certain builds stupidly good in comparison to other viable non-crit builds.
IE:
A wiz with alabaster rune in blizzard increases its critical strike chance by 80%. With a no crit chance build, you will be doing unfair amounts of damage with just +damage and +crit damage.
1140-1560 per second with no crit chance investment just from one rune makes any other choice obsolete. Why reduce the arcane cost from 40 to 24 to do 285-390 when you could just spend 16 extra AP for 4x the damage?
It just doesn't add up, so let's assume crits do not "multiply your damage" by your increased crit damage.
This is how crits probably do work: They multiply your base damage, which is effectively just adding your bonus damage from your attack with your bonus crit damage.
Basically, our 500 attack wizarad increases his base damage by 500%. A crit would add it's bonus to that, so it would be a 900% increased damage blizzard (500 from attack plus 400 from crit).
Our same wizard critting with the new formula does 513-702 per crit. That's an 80% increase in the total damage of the hit by adding 400% critical strike damage.
Only 100% damage bonus from crits on the same wizard would increase the damage to only 342-468 from the original 285-390. This crit is only a 20% increase of the total damage of the skill by adding a 100% crit damage bonus to the base power of the skill. See what I mean?
Lastly, many skills just generally "increase all damage" like the wizard's crimson runed familiar or the barb's crimson runed battle rage. The desription for the wizard reads "increase damage of all attacks by 40% while Familiar is active." The barb "increases damage by 100%" while active. I would like to hear what others think about these kinds of skill desciptions. I personally think that these skills will just multiply the base damage of everything instead of increasing "all damage."
This can already easily be tested by an F&F player with a barb's battle rage. Get going!!
Sorry, this isn't really about starting a clan. It's more just a gathering of players who have major farming intentions, but also have a successful gaming background so that the group has maximum efficiency.
If D3 is going to be about pvm, inferno mode damn well better be interesting/challenging with many variables/tough situations and not designed so the average group of players can complete it. That would make it very enjoyable....
But seriously, at the same time, it's true that having an awesome PVE exameperience does not in any way justify making the pvp experience worse. As for preventing E-Sports.... There are past attempts at companies making their games to prevent competition. The best example I can think of is super smash bros. Smash Bros Melee for the Game cube (2001) was, and still is, a hugely popular tournament game that gives out thousands of dollars in prize money and gathers people from all over the world to compete. It's an insanely hardcore and community based game. Smash Bros Brawl (2008) was made with the sole intention of being for casual players and shitting on the competitive community. It added random elements to the game to even advert competitive players from wanting to play. Despite that, the game is still a competitive game with tournaments and everything, though at the same time it's a much worse game because of the companies intentions to be more casual.
The only thing I feel that can be done to make D3 NOT become an E-Sport is by intentionally trying to make pvp stupid.... People will make anything they want into an E-Sport if they enjoy the competition. Implementing cool pvp features does not have to be "to promote esports." Why not just implement the cool features because they are cool? That's why a lot of things are in D3 in the first place, because they're cool!
Thanks, I've registered at RH and look forwards to talkin to you guys on your TS to see what you're all about.
The bulk of this topic still stands. Looking for people with a successful gaming background so we can play and have a successful D3. Hooty Hoo!!
Whichever class you play, please include screenshots of your skills' damage for every time you level up. It's a good example so we can see scaling.
If you play witch doctor, please include screenies of your max mana for every time you level up so we can see the growth!
Also it might be a good idea to check if any mana costs for witch doctor go up upon leveling.
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And this is a major problem, because every single build that doesn't use crimson battle rage will never match its (sustained) damage. This does not in any way promote diverse builds, which is the entire point of the design of the skill/rune system.
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I would like to clarify that the point of removing most of the crit from the damage build was to simply make it a damage build, whereas the crit build abused the high crit% increasing runes.
At any rate, one thing I was trying to point out is just how ridiculous the formulas make skills like battle rage/wizard's familiar/whatever.
With crimson battle rage, and crimson frenzy in PVE, there is no other combination of skills that allows the barb to reach the raw damage.
The 500 attack/crit damage barb with these abilities will do 6,600 non-crit damage with a 100% weapon damage move, keep in mind that 60% crit rate is nearly automatic with certain PvE setups.
It would take 2640 attack attacks for any barb that doesn't get those two specific skills in order to do that much damage with a non-crit attack using a 100% weapon damage move.... When the crit is added, it's even more of a joke just how pointless it is to build anything aside from crit and "increases all damage by x%."
This is why I am stating that the formulas blizzard have chosen have already centralized the stats that need to be obtained to do damage. There is no reason to diverge from doing over tripple damage automatically by using these rune sets.
That is of course, unless they utilize the formulas (the thing this topic is about) that completely centralize the stats that builds need to obtain in order to do damage. Add crimson to battle rage/frezny, you suddenly do more than TRIPPLE your previous damage. What other sustainable skills does the barb have that allows any of the other billions of builds to compete with this? What I'm trying to say is that you must abuse the formulas to get damage, otherwise you wont.
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It is intentionally biased. One build is based off of crits, the other is based off of having a high attack attribute. It does not change the fact that with the way damage is calculated, damage can literally be doubled, trippled, or more, just by choosing different runes on the same build. IMO this ability to literally multiply the total damage of everything you do with one skill/rune does not add variety to builds, it forces you to pick those skills/runes so that you can do as much damage as possible. Because of crits multiplying everything and "increases all damage" multiplying everything, it seems optimal builds will revolve around using these exponentially damage increasing formulas.
Rend was included in the calculations. The runes were changed to differentiate the crit build from a non-crit build. The Obsidian rune in Overpower will heal the barb. I did not say for how much, but considering it's purpose, and the results of the calculations from raw damage, it is possible that the damage version of Overpower will heal more then the healing version of Overpower just because of how insane the calcualtions are. Yes the example is extreme, intentionally.
Lol, that was a typo. It's fixed now. I litrally got home from work and posted this with the data I wrote down while watching the stream earlier today. I didn't check for typos because I took a nap xD. My bad.
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So I was watching a stream today, and requested that the streamer do some tests so that we could determine the formula for critical hits!! He actually agreed to do the tests and we figured out the formula for critical hits and skills that "increase you damage" by x%.
These are the tests we did:
To me, this is very disappointing.... At first glance, it tells me that in order to do any decent damage, you must invest in crit or skills that "increase your damage by x%" otherwise you will simply be outclassed by players who are multiplying their entire damage by these attributes....
Warning: two bad/biased barb builds below. Each has the exact same stat total, fury generation, and the exact same ability to spend fury. I shall compare the difference in what they do due to learning the formulas of critical hits and +increased damage.... One build is intentionally aiming for crits, whereas the other is intentionally aiming for high damage without crits, and instead of using battle rage (which is basically a passive skill that subtracts fury. fun fun), it's utilizing [insert skill here], which, thanks to the formulas, will never allow any other sustainable skill, or perhaps even burst skill, to compete with the sustainable damage provided by these formulas.
For each build. Both barbs have the same skills with different runes.
We are going to assume that items with +attack bonuses reach the same relative bonuses as items with +critical damage to them. This is assumed because in the beta, items that give +attack (say an item with +20 attack) also can be found with the exact same numerical bonuses for +critical damage (an item with +20% critical damage).
Each barb will have the same total bonuses when combining attack with bonus crit damage and the same weapon damage.
Each barb will do one retaliate, one overpower and two hammers of the ancients and is assumed to be already in the action with all applied bonuses (frenzy stacks, battle rage, overpower/revenge bonuses).
Build #1. The crit/increase damage build:
Made up build, with realistic end game stats:
Build #2. Same skills (except for rend), different runes, ignoring the crit/increased damage bonus aspect.
Made up build, with realistic end game stats:
This crit build does over 5 times the damage of the pure attack/non-crit build. It also most likely heals for far more, despite the other build incorporating healing runes.
What does this tell us?
Basically, because of the way damage is calculated, you can literally double, triple, or more, all of your damage just by using the formulas to your advantage. At first glance it appears that optimal builds will revolve around abusing the formulas instead of actually choosing skills that have specific/niche uses/etc that compliment the character. It appears to add far less variety. I would like to hear what people have to say.
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It wold be great if someone could test how crit works, and how skills like the barb's battle rage/wizard's glass cannon work, each of which "increases damage."
It's important to know because some believe crits multiply total damage whereas some believe it multiplies base damage. Each possibility would have completely different outcomes in terms of how much damage someone would deal.
Someone please test these mechanics. I think the simplest way would be to use a barb with a weapon that has +minimum damage. Try to get the minimum and the maximum damage to be as close together as possible.
While hitting the same monster type, here are the steps that I believe will get the best results:
Please test!! : )
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http://www.diablofans.com/topic/29066-how-crits-work/
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Basically an unmodified disintegrate on a wizard with 500 attack will deal 510-642 per second. The 120% bonus arcane damage will increase it to 612-770 per second.
The same wizard with no runes to meteor will still deal 1278-1746 plus 168-258 per second afterwards.
I highly doubt arcane torrent's bonus damage ability will allow it to severely outclass the wizard's strongest spell (aside from archon transformation).
Also: Wizards have so much ability to recover arcane power. With signature spells granting up to 26 arcane power per use without even critting... I have a feeling that meteor WILL be spammable.
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From what we do know:
Attack increases all base damage by 1% per point. Your skill's base damage will be multiplied by 1 plus this value.
IE:
- A wizard with 500 attack has blizzard, which does 57-78 per tick. 500 attack will increase the damage to 285-390 per tick.
- What about crits? No one has bothered to give a formula yet, but let's say for example that a basic, unmodified crit damage does 50% more damage.
- Ok! Now Let's say our 500 attack wizard has 400% critical damage crits with his blizzard! What will happen?
Well, we know that we have a 285-390 damage blizzard, so let's just multiply this by four! This gives us 1140-1560 per tick.
Crits are pretty valuable, eh?
In all honesty, I do not think that is how crits work. I've heard people say they double your damage, so +critical damage will make it more than double!!
This is an absurd assumption. Why? Because it would make certain builds stupidly good in comparison to other viable non-crit builds.
IE:
- A wiz with alabaster rune in blizzard increases its critical strike chance by 80%. With a no crit chance build, you will be doing unfair amounts of damage with just +damage and +crit damage.
- 1140-1560 per second with no crit chance investment just from one rune makes any other choice obsolete. Why reduce the arcane cost from 40 to 24 to do 285-390 when you could just spend 16 extra AP for 4x the damage?
It just doesn't add up, so let's assume crits do not "multiply your damage" by your increased crit damage.
This is how crits probably do work: They multiply your base damage, which is effectively just adding your bonus damage from your attack with your bonus crit damage.
Basically, our 500 attack wizarad increases his base damage by 500%. A crit would add it's bonus to that, so it would be a 900% increased damage blizzard (500 from attack plus 400 from crit).
Our same wizard critting with the new formula does 513-702 per crit. That's an 80% increase in the total damage of the hit by adding 400% critical strike damage.
Only 100% damage bonus from crits on the same wizard would increase the damage to only 342-468 from the original 285-390. This crit is only a 20% increase of the total damage of the skill by adding a 100% crit damage bonus to the base power of the skill. See what I mean?
Lastly, many skills just generally "increase all damage" like the wizard's crimson runed familiar or the barb's crimson runed battle rage. The desription for the wizard reads "increase damage of all attacks by 40% while Familiar is active." The barb "increases damage by 100%" while active. I would like to hear what others think about these kinds of skill desciptions. I personally think that these skills will just multiply the base damage of everything instead of increasing "all damage."
This can already easily be tested by an F&F player with a barb's battle rage. Get going!!
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But seriously, at the same time, it's true that having an awesome PVE exameperience does not in any way justify making the pvp experience worse. As for preventing E-Sports.... There are past attempts at companies making their games to prevent competition. The best example I can think of is super smash bros. Smash Bros Melee for the Game cube (2001) was, and still is, a hugely popular tournament game that gives out thousands of dollars in prize money and gathers people from all over the world to compete. It's an insanely hardcore and community based game. Smash Bros Brawl (2008) was made with the sole intention of being for casual players and shitting on the competitive community. It added random elements to the game to even advert competitive players from wanting to play. Despite that, the game is still a competitive game with tournaments and everything, though at the same time it's a much worse game because of the companies intentions to be more casual.
The only thing I feel that can be done to make D3 NOT become an E-Sport is by intentionally trying to make pvp stupid.... People will make anything they want into an E-Sport if they enjoy the competition. Implementing cool pvp features does not have to be "to promote esports." Why not just implement the cool features because they are cool? That's why a lot of things are in D3 in the first place, because they're cool!
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The bulk of this topic still stands. Looking for people with a successful gaming background so we can play and have a successful D3. Hooty Hoo!!
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If you play witch doctor, please include screenies of your max mana for every time you level up so we can see the growth!
Also it might be a good idea to check if any mana costs for witch doctor go up upon leveling.