Twitter saw some updates this week clarifying some of the details surrounding PvP arenas. If you happen to be fuzzy on the upcoming arena environments, liquorice wrote an excellent summary of many of its features in Diablo III PvP - Battle Arena Environments. If not, onward to health orbs!
We've seen what health orbs do for players in the PvM context in the years since 2008's announcement, but how do they affect the PvP experience?
Official Blizzard Quote:
Diablo: @Scyberdragon [Health orbs] are on timers right now, which actually makes for interesting gameplay. If they were random you'd probably hover there.
Blizzcon 2010's arena gameplay demo certainly showed us how interestingly health orbs affected choices in the heat of PvP battles. As soon as the red orbs popped up, the choice had to be made: can I make it to the end of the round with half health or should I clear a path through my enemies--and possibly die--to get an orb?
Camping was essentially a non-option, not with the speed at which health was lost and the relatively long (challengingly so!) delay between health orb spawns. Of course, the option was there, and in some cases was the difference between a winning character and a dead one.
But with randomization being so heavily stressed throughout the game, why not set health orbs to random spawns? Bashiok responded:
Official Blizzard Quote:
Diablo: @Scyberdragon Randomness undermines some of the competitive nature of the arenas. You could "get lucky" with health globe spawns and win.
Getting lucky. We could very well sit here for hours posting arguments over whether or not setting them on a fixed timer eliminates the element of luck in even this single regard. What about players not keeping track of health orb spawn rates? What about running in to one by accident, just in the nick of time? What about losing health just as an orb spawns?
Regardless, the fixed timer will likely be but one of the many new components of Diablo III's arenas that define dueling pros and novices. As Bashiok noted, keeping mental notes of the average time between health orb spawns can free players to execute effective offensive tactics, as well as plan when to run to known orb spawning locations. Such knowledge could even be used to predict where low-health players, and thus easy targets, will go when the timer hits zero.
And keeping mental note of the "timer" before the health orb spawn is my nightmare. It reminds of UT2004 and how a shooter was eventually about nothing but remembering "when X powerup will spawn" and fetch it.
And keeping mental note of the "timer" before the health orb spawn is my nightmare. It reminds of UT2004 and how a shooter was eventually about nothing but remembering "when X powerup will spawn" and fetch it.
Even with the Health Globes arena matches were only 30 or so seconds at Blizzcon. Without them arena matches would be so fast it would be nearly impossible to react before you die. And its considerably different when getting a 'powerup' allows you to survive for a bit longer compared to allowing you to kill faster.
d2 end content for me was striclty dueling...so that was basically the central goal for me in d2, crushing dreams in duel games. What set it apart for me was 1)fast paced movemnts and having to actually aim and use strategy (as opposed to WoW pvp systems) and 2) the fact that it was mainly unregulated by blizzard. It was a simple hostile/non hostile system which led to occasional nking but varied the expeiances of dueling all around.
I don't like the direction this is going in for d3...designated duel grounds, mandatory (i think...i barely follow the updates) teams, and now spawning health. I don't like the feel the new regulated PvP system offers and im not totally sure why, but i think d3 is gonna disaapoint me, for as i said pvp was my sole reason for playing
If you're doing 1v1, there's no teams, but other than that, yes, there's no free-for-all
Well that would be a pretty obvious choice for another PvP mode, and I doubt that the Arena will be the only PvP mode for all that long after release, if they don't have multiple modes at first.
I side with Scyber on this. I'd like them to be on a maybe a flexible timer, say something like once every 25-35 seconds, but a completely random spot in the arena. I'd prefer to see people notice a health globe has spawned and then attempt to stun or control one another while they scramble to collect it rather than just count down the time and know the positions, or more likely have a program that will end up timing it for you.
In my mind, fighting on equal footing for a health globe is a lot more competitive then timing it and knowing the spots it can appear.
If you're doing 1v1, there's no teams, but other than that, yes, there's no free-for-all
Well that would be a pretty obvious choice for another PvP mode, and I doubt that the Arena will be the only PvP mode for all that long after release, if they don't have multiple modes at first.
Well, I think this came up with Bashiok last year and he said that what we have with the arena currently is what's going to be in the release, and basically rejected free-for-all. And then there was a lot of discontent. But I can't remember exactly where/when.
I mean, I can agree that a mode like that would be pointless with anything over four players in an arena game. Can you imagine trying to see with six players concurrently spamming screen-flashing effects everywhere? It would be pointless to even move. You'd be dead instantly just from skill fallout since no one would be on teams. Especially with the arena map that we've seen being so small (although we haven't seen any others they have planned, I don't think).
Free for all also really favors people who sit back and pick off weaker enemies. If you can just survive until the end with more HP than the other guy you win.
I'd prefer damage to be reduced by a certain percentage in PvP and getting rid of health globes. As said before, it reminds me too much of UT (hate that Malcolm bitch BTW!!! always stole my shield pack!) and I don't think it is a good feature for the game. Grabbing/not grabbing a health globe for your team basically means winning/losing, so suddenly the game is not so much about how good you play and how powerful your character is, but about whether you know the timer and keep track of it or not. I'd rather have no potions, no globes for PvP and who can survive wins, no second chances. As for FireSorcsPwn...Diablo is not and never will be an ideal PvP game, so disappointment is to be expected if PvP gaming is what you are looking for. This is first and foremost a PvM/storyline experience, not a PvP competitive game. PvP support in D2 was next to nonexistant, so I think it can only go up from there.
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A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head!
Maybe there will be an arena to choose with no health globes. Keep in mind, they are making numerous arenas, each with their own flavor so anything is really still possible.
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Maybe there will be an arena to choose with no health globes. Keep in mind, they are making numerous arenas, each with their own flavor so anything is really still possible.
Very true Blizz has said arenas will be a place you could go to.
I like the idea that health globes are on a timer in a central location. If I would get bested by another team bc of a random HGlobe in some random place i could not predict, nerd rage would come a pone me like chicken and waffles calm my hunger! Naw but word up PvP is mostly about burst damage, predicting damage, and countering incoming damage. A bit of luck to! So not being able to plane for such a huge game changer every x-seconds your taking a lot of skills out of the game and that does not translate into a esport/tournament setting.
d2 end content for me was striclty dueling...so that was basically the central goal for me in d2, crushing dreams in duel games. What set it apart for me was 1)fast paced movemnts and having to actually aim and use strategy (as opposed to WoW pvp systems) and 2) the fact that it was mainly unregulated by blizzard. It was a simple hostile/non hostile system which led to occasional nking but varied the expeiances of dueling all around.
I don't like the direction this is going in for d3...designated duel grounds, mandatory (i think...i barely follow the updates) teams, and now spawning health. I don't like the feel the new regulated PvP system offers and im not totally sure why, but i think d3 is gonna disaapoint me, for as i said pvp was my sole reason for playing
You took the words right out of my mouth. Best things about D2 pvp...its total randomness, so they strip it all out for D3, not to mention they stripped out pk entirely.
Its just one of those things though, people don't understand it so its broken. If people don't understand how d2 pvp works, and that some of what works in pvp is trash in pvm and vice versa, they just naturally say its broken and flawed rather then learn the game.
Its the same logic behind why stat allocating was removed, and a gold based currency introduced rather then improving the barter system used in d2, and respecs introduced in the last d2 patch. People shouldn't have to actually think to play an rpg you know, the simple formula for success should always be time spent grinding = success. Taking the time to learn the game and experiment with things shouldn't actually have benefits, that punishes people who don't want to think.
I just don't understand what blizzard is doing here. They come out with D1, that was revolutionary at the time. They then improved upon that formula with more revolutionary things to create D2. The games are really quite similar, just D2 character builds were a little more complex, team play a little more polished, and trade windows. They then release tidbits about D3, and its just not D2 with improvements. Its D2 mainstreamed. I don't want to see D2 blended with WoW to give me D3, I was hoping D3 would have been D2 with its original ideas and mechanics enhanced, polished, and added to, not stripped out to make the game just like the other 100 crappy mmo's out there.
not to make a long story short but you do remember how skills worked in D1 compared to D2? In D1, there were no skill trees. Skills were based on books that you found. In D2, they got rid of the dropped loot mechanic of skills and replaced it with skills trees. This was a huge change between those two games and many D1 fans complained how it changed the whole structure of the game and characters. However, you feel like there was minimal change between the two games.
I think a lot of people just fear change until they play the game and realize how much of it still feels likes Diablo.
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We've seen what health orbs do for players in the PvM context in the years since 2008's announcement, but how do they affect the PvP experience?
Official Blizzard Quote:
Diablo: @Scyberdragon [Health orbs] are on timers right now, which actually makes for interesting gameplay. If they were random you'd probably hover there.
Camping was essentially a non-option, not with the speed at which health was lost and the relatively long (challengingly so!) delay between health orb spawns. Of course, the option was there, and in some cases was the difference between a winning character and a dead one.
But with randomization being so heavily stressed throughout the game, why not set health orbs to random spawns? Bashiok responded:
Official Blizzard Quote:
Diablo: @Scyberdragon Randomness undermines some of the competitive nature of the arenas. You could "get lucky" with health globe spawns and win.
Regardless, the fixed timer will likely be but one of the many new components of Diablo III's arenas that define dueling pros and novices. As Bashiok noted, keeping mental notes of the average time between health orb spawns can free players to execute effective offensive tactics, as well as plan when to run to known orb spawning locations. Such knowledge could even be used to predict where low-health players, and thus easy targets, will go when the timer hits zero.
And keeping mental note of the "timer" before the health orb spawn is my nightmare. It reminds of UT2004 and how a shooter was eventually about nothing but remembering "when X powerup will spawn" and fetch it.
Power through powerups. Not for me.
Where would we be without you, Jake? :thumbsup:
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I don't like the direction this is going in for d3...designated duel grounds, mandatory (i think...i barely follow the updates) teams, and now spawning health. I don't like the feel the new regulated PvP system offers and im not totally sure why, but i think d3 is gonna disaapoint me, for as i said pvp was my sole reason for playing
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In my mind, fighting on equal footing for a health globe is a lot more competitive then timing it and knowing the spots it can appear.
Well, I think this came up with Bashiok last year and he said that what we have with the arena currently is what's going to be in the release, and basically rejected free-for-all. And then there was a lot of discontent. But I can't remember exactly where/when.
I mean, I can agree that a mode like that would be pointless with anything over four players in an arena game. Can you imagine trying to see with six players concurrently spamming screen-flashing effects everywhere? It would be pointless to even move. You'd be dead instantly just from skill fallout since no one would be on teams. Especially with the arena map that we've seen being so small (although we haven't seen any others they have planned, I don't think).
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Very true Blizz has said arenas will be a place you could go to.
I like the idea that health globes are on a timer in a central location. If I would get bested by another team bc of a random HGlobe in some random place i could not predict, nerd rage would come a pone me like chicken and waffles calm my hunger! Naw but word up PvP is mostly about burst damage, predicting damage, and countering incoming damage. A bit of luck to! So not being able to plane for such a huge game changer every x-seconds your taking a lot of skills out of the game and that does not translate into a esport/tournament setting.
You took the words right out of my mouth. Best things about D2 pvp...its total randomness, so they strip it all out for D3, not to mention they stripped out pk entirely.
Its just one of those things though, people don't understand it so its broken. If people don't understand how d2 pvp works, and that some of what works in pvp is trash in pvm and vice versa, they just naturally say its broken and flawed rather then learn the game.
Its the same logic behind why stat allocating was removed, and a gold based currency introduced rather then improving the barter system used in d2, and respecs introduced in the last d2 patch. People shouldn't have to actually think to play an rpg you know, the simple formula for success should always be time spent grinding = success. Taking the time to learn the game and experiment with things shouldn't actually have benefits, that punishes people who don't want to think.
I just don't understand what blizzard is doing here. They come out with D1, that was revolutionary at the time. They then improved upon that formula with more revolutionary things to create D2. The games are really quite similar, just D2 character builds were a little more complex, team play a little more polished, and trade windows. They then release tidbits about D3, and its just not D2 with improvements. Its D2 mainstreamed. I don't want to see D2 blended with WoW to give me D3, I was hoping D3 would have been D2 with its original ideas and mechanics enhanced, polished, and added to, not stripped out to make the game just like the other 100 crappy mmo's out there.
I think a lot of people just fear change until they play the game and realize how much of it still feels likes Diablo.
Find any Diablo news? Contact me or anyone else on the News team