I really don't know at all what to think. I just want to see it in action to decide for myself. We're a testing pool for stuff that has never been done. It's crazy.
I wonder if the AH and RMAH will be functional in the beta?
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My only concern is that people will probably want to BUY items in gold, but, SELL them in real money. See how that wouldn't work?
...and for that reason Gold AH will have only crap items.
LEGENDARY drops will ONLY be sold/bought in the real money AH.
Like Phrozen already said, the fact that gold is interchangeable into e-balance (or money) will eliminate this.
If you think about this:
Lets say I have the Legendary Axe of Leet. It sells for $10 in the money AH and 10,000 gold pieces in the gold AH. Then if the ratio of gold to money is more than 1,000 gold for $1, then people will sell in the money AH and buy gold with the e-balance. If the ratio of gold to money is less than 1,000 gold for $1, then people will sell in the gold AH and sell gold for $.
This kind of arbitrage will eventually force that all items will be sold in both AHs and the price difference will depend on the current gold to $ exchange rate. Because if there is profit to be had by simply buying from the other AH and selling in the other AH, people will do exactly that. This will essentially create a very functional market.
Even if there were no axes in the other AH, some people would always look to make profit through the arbitrage and buy stuff from the cash AH and sell in the gold AH if the ratio of gold:$ was favorable for that.
The more I think about the economics side of it all, the more sense it makes.
No, this will not eliminate the problem. Gold is a infinite resource Money is not. Gold will inflate and prices for items will rise. Nothing is solved by making gold traded for this e-balance.
You still end up with a game the turns into a pay to win model.
No, this will not eliminate the problem. Gold is a infinite resource Money is not. Gold will inflate and prices for items will rise. Nothing is solved by making gold traded for this e-balance.
You still end up with a game the turns into a pay to win model.
Gold will not be infinite. Gold in the system will follow a simple formula along the lines of:
gold attainable per hour in average x players in the system x time passed since launch - gold taken out of the system (artisans, repairs, etc.).
While the amount of gold will probably increase and gold will suffer from an inflation (it's unavoidable with a small-time fiat currency that in-game gold is in essence). In the perfect world gold will see manageable levels of inflation up to 10% per a reasonable time unit, such as a month.
And since real money is not susceptible to strong inflation (we're talking to around 5% annually, compared to the 100%-200% in-game gold might suffer in some of the best case scenarios) the biggest driving forces in the market will not be inflation, but gold:e-balance going rate and how many items have dropped.
i am sorry again but if i compare the sc1 had and sc2 is for laughing!
indeed we are not in 2000 and reverse engineering is way better in our days ;-)
The comparison is rather null. Sc1 was not a huge e-sport initially after its launch. There were no such big incentives to create hacks.
Even if reverse engineering is better these days, handling the infrastructure server-side (such that items are never dealt by player-side clients, but are exclusively handled by dedicated servers) will fix almost all of the issues D2 had.
For example, it is impossible to dupe in WoW. Only theoretical way would be to hack the servers, and this would probably cause the servers to be rolled back to the state they were in before the hacking took place.
I am sorry but yes, gold in an infinite resource. You should look up what infinite means. The fact that there is no limit to how much gold can exist then there is an infinite amount of gold.
There will ALWAYS be more gold earned by every player than more gold spent. This will only get larger once most players have higher level characters while being geared to the teeth. As player characters get stronger the amount of gold per hour increases. Also once cookie cutter farming builds and farming spots are discovered the amount of gold will also increase. There is no end to the amount of gold or items for that matter to be found in Diablo 3.
I really don't see how you think gold is a limited resource in a game when all resources in said game are unlimited.
If you really can't see this then I really don't think there is any way for you to understand the fears of the RMAH. Its pretty easy to understand that in a game all resources such as gold are simply data that can and will be duplicated while a resource like real money is limited. There is a limit to the amount of money and the value it holds in the real world. While in Diablo 3 there is no limit to the amount of gold that can be created in its universe.
So anyone believes not everyone is going too multi-box like 10 accounts and bots and earn quite some cash ?
I find it amusing how they state they already proven they are good vs bots on WoW.
Check out google seriously, I've seen 100's of awesome bots undedetected doing the most boring jobs for people :/
Of course there will be bots. But it won't be such a peaceful stroll through the park like botting was in D2. Bots are unavoidable, but if you make the risk vs. reward ratio correct, average casual players will be discouraged from botting and the bots will mostly be run by professional item farmers.
There are and always will be more way to cheat in anything than there is to stop or counter it. Look at sports if you are blind and don't think most of them use performance enhancers your crazy and have never looked into doping and that is real life. Anything digital has more holes than a sponge its just a matter of exploiting the holes.
The auction house can fail. From reading the OP, you can't make real money of it but Blizzard and 3rd party(e.g Paypal) can. That sucks. Basically you can put money in but not take money out.
You can get enough ppl to boycott the system because of ANTI -blizzard behavior as well as self profit motive. YOu can portentially have a group of farmers who do not sell items in the auction house but 3rd party websites. Of course 3rd party websites have to gain the trust of the customer. Assuming 3rd party is legit and fulfills ts offers, it can offer customers a bargain by offering godlies at cheaper than AH prices. Flawed AH system it is.
Why can blizz and payment system( e .g maybe paypal) benefit by making real money?
THe E balance system is lame credit system and the only thing blizzard has over the 3rd party sellers is trust and guarantee.
The exchange rate is also stupid. No one agrees with it. baseless determinants of exchange/gold, because there is no consensus on difficuluty obtaining gold / conversion
It's not like in D2 where I could bot for months before I got banned. In D3, a ban will be quicker (it's easy to monitor suspicious behavior when measures are built-in to the game code).
I know it's few posts ago, but those sentences made me scratch my head. Exactly on what do you base your statement that bans in Diablo 3 will be quicker? What measures are built-in to prevent Boting? I'm really interested in this info, any links would be helpful.
There are no details on specifics for D3, so I'm merely talking about how stupidly it was handled in D2, and any person that is capable of breathing (i.e. isn't brain-dead) can figure out ways to make botting harder. Making it impossible is simply not... possible, but D2 botting was too easy.
Bans in Diablo 2 followed the following schedule:
The bot detection software (Warden) detected a bot. That is, an account running a lot of games and acting in a very bot-like fashion (clicking faster than a human can click, doing the same tasks repeatedly with no mistakes).
Warden gathers enough evidence that the account is a bot, flags the account as a bot.
These lists sit in Blizzard's hands for weeks, possibly months.
Then the bots are banned in a mass-ban, and news headlines ("100,000 accounts attached to bots were banned!") are posted in battle.net front page.
By simply removing the delay between flagging bots and actually banning them, this decreases the time a bot can run without a ban. Also, since we won't be able to make more than 1 account with one purchase of the game, a ban will be permanent -- unlike in D2 where getting your cd-keys banned required a lot of banned accounts and malicious activity. If your D2 account was banned, all you had to do was make a new one and start again.
So by simple 101 methods bans will be faster and botting won't be as easy. Not to mention Blizzard can include built-in detectors to the game code (that will detect easy scripts). Elaborate bots won't be as easily caught -- the ones that mimic human activity by increasing delay times and making them slightly random, but such bots won't be distributed for free over the internet like D2 bots were since they will require a lot of hours to be put in programming the bot and keeping it one step ahead of the Warden.
Because SC2 has people banned every day right? Right? o wait no they fail at that too with the rampand maphacks and drops hacks that ruin ladder in that game. Which was suppose to be an e-sport right?
To your last post before you look at the inflation with way too much optimism. The fact of the matter is anyone and everyone would rather put anything up in the RMT AH for money. Thus Gold has already lost its initial value other than crafting and repairs and what other gold sinks they have. It will no longer be used as something to trade with for items.
Not to mention that bots will be in the game, and the incentive to use bots is so high at this point you would almost be dumb not to use one, because its basically free money.
This does not solve any issues at all. There will still be every problem that they are trying to prevent with the introduction of the RMT AH. If you and anyone else really thinks this will solve all problems with a RMT AH then this game will just be the start of a cycle of games that are modeled as play to win and are sucessful.
I really hope you enjoy the future of games if this follows. Im done arguing, your points are always the same argument you bring nothing new to refute what I say, with every post talking about gold being real money, its a flawed argument and its been said by me and many others the holes in that argument.
This is a video game, there are holes to everything and they will be found there will be giant inflation just like every other RPG out there and as inflation for gold rises the value a dollar has on the game grows. Its not rocket sciences its not even difficult to grasp.
Enjoy the new game model of the future if this goes through. The Pay to Win model.
Haven't posted for like a year os so. But this was just too much to hold. Had to join up the Dfans forums once more.
I'll break my opinion down to two part due to length.A/B
A)
1) Blizz knows how to make games, the fact that we have so much to discuss about and that we know as much
as we do about the in game ecnomics/hacks/bots/fixes/etc. Is simply because they made it possible, they created
the universe in which these things developed. (and if not them, other brilliant gaming companies). Let them deal
with the details and outcomes of their choices. Plus nobody is twisting your arm to pay for items.
2) If they find, down the line, that this system causes more grief than good, they will either change it or remove it, why? Because that's what Blizzard does. So debate however you want, noone can predict 100% the outcome. The only one thing we do know for sure is the following ....GO TO B (1)
3)I can understand folks who run scared at the thought of a broken economy, with good items only being sold in RMAH
and voicing their complaints about it(though it may not be justified). But I do NOT for one second pity the fools who complain about others buying their items with real money and beating them in PvP. Or saying that since Blizzard encourages buying items , they are somewhat insulted and won't be buying/playing the game. Crybabies....
First off myself, and pretty much everyone, don't believe a word of it when they say they wont play. And they know noone believes them too, so they just trolling. Second, that's like saying that since my neighbour's father has more money and my neighbour has a better inheritance, it ruins my life, I cant enjoy myself thus I should just end it. WTF?
I may not have the money to spend on D3, neither would my wife let me spend if i did. But if others do, good for them, shit. Why not let them spend their hard earned cash on something they hold dear to their hearts? And if they are kids spending their parent's hard earn cash, then that's an issue with the parent itself and has nothing to do with Blizzard. Watch and see if my child in the future spends a buck on gaming if I disagreed. I as a parent wouldn't be blaming Blizzard but myself for not educating my child with the values that I hold.
If I was a parent that didnt mind this kind of spending then I would be glad that the money is going towards entertainment. Better than them buying drugs on the streets, or sending money to shady 3rd party companies. Which brings me to my next point.
_____________________________________________________
B
1)No matter how you look at RMAH, flop or success. I'd rather pay 1000 bucks to a company that's been making games we enjoy for decades, than pay 1$ to shady 3rd party companies (not necessarily chinese) for item transactions. So if I was one of those guys planning on spending in D3, I would be freaking extatic to know that the money I'm about to spend isn't gonna go to a company that underpays a bunch of kids to farm, but instead is going to go to Blizzard who in return will have the resources to keep making games for years to come. That's called an indirect investment. That means thanks to folks who will be buying and selling real cash, my kids will probably get to enjoy Blizz games like we had in our youth.
2) To all the purists who say money shouldn't be in games. Why should making money in a game be any less significant than making money at work. Blizzard is possibly opening the doors to a whole new generation of folks who might have an opportunity to make cash while playing games. I see people every day busting their asses in a dead end job that they hate. Go back home miserable with not enough money to go by. Why would giving the future an opportunity to make money while having fun be a bad thing? Where's the problem in that? Shit, is money is the root of all evil, probably. But as we are stuck with it and can't live without it, why not be able to make it in a more enjoyable fashion. Ask anyone who plays sports for a living, they will tell you the same. Sports are a game. Athletes make money for plyaying the game, why not, they are better than us at it. SO,why not let greater computer gamers make money too. If they don't you can bet your arse that others with less honorable purposes will be making it. (like they have been with online games for a decade now).
Conclusion:
This might be the beginning of a new era of online gaming. If it goes for the better, excellent. If not then it was wort a try and can always be sent the same way as the talisman, on the shelf. Who are we to criticize something that has yet come to life and that we do not yet fully understand. Be open minded and enjoy the fact that your even getting the chance to play a game. So many people don't.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Diablo 3, Hottest shit to happen to 21st Century Entertainment since Georges "Rush" St-Pierre.______________ --------~~Mattheo's Quote of the day~~---------
----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums -------- Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
Haven't posted for like a year os so. But this was just too much to hold. Had to join up the Dfans forums once more.
I'll break my opinion down to two part due to length.A/B
A)
1) Blizz knows how to make games, the fact that we have so much to discuss about and that we know as much
as we do about the in game ecnomics/hacks/bots/fixes/etc. Is simply because they made it possible, they created
the universe in which these things developed. (and if not them, other brilliant gaming companies). Let them deal
with the details and outcomes of their choices. Plus nobody is twisting your arm to pay for items.
2) If they find, down the line, that this system causes more grief than good, they will either change it or remove it, why? Because that's what Blizzard does. So debate however you want, noone can predict 100% the outcome. The only one thing we do know for sure is the following ....GO TO B (1)
3)I can understand folks who run scared at the thought of a broken economy, with good items only being sold in RMAH
and voicing their complaints about it(though it may not be justified). But I do NOT for one second pity the fools who complain about others buying their items with real money and beating them in PvP. Or saying that since Blizzard encourages buying items , they are somewhat insulted and won't be buying/playing the game. Crybabies....
First off myself, and pretty much everyone, don't believe a word of it when they say they wont play. And they know noone believes them too, so they just trolling. Second, that's like saying that since my neighbour's father has more money and my neighbour has a better inheritance, it ruins my life, I cant enjoy myself thus I should just end it. WTF?
I may not have the money to spend on D3, neither would my wife let me spend if i did. But if others do, good for them, shit. Why not let them spend their hard earned cash on something they hold dear to their hearts? And if they are kids spending their parent's hard earn cash, then that's an issue with the parent itself and has nothing to do with Blizzard. Watch and see if my child in the future spends a buck on gaming if I disagreed. I as a parent wouldn't be blaming Blizzard but myself for not educating my child with the values that I hold.
If I was a parent that didnt mind this kind of spending then I would be glad that the money is going towards entertainment. Better than them buying drugs on the streets, or sending money to shady 3rd party companies. Which brings me to my next point.
_____________________________________________________
B
1)No matter how you look at RMAH, flop or success. I'd rather pay 1000 bucks to a company that's been making games we enjoy for decades, than pay 1$ to shady 3rd party companies (not necessarily chinese) for item transactions. So if I was one of those guys planning on spending in D3, I would be freaking extatic to know that the money I'm about to spend isn't gonna go to a company that underpays a bunch of kids to farm, but instead is going to go to Blizzard who in return will have the resources to keep making games for years to come. That's called an indirect investment. That means thanks to folks who will be buying and selling real cash, my kids will probably get to enjoy Blizz games like we had in our youth.
2) To all the purists who say money shouldn't be in games. Why should making money in a game be any less significant than making money at work. Blizzard is possibly opening the doors to a whole new generation of folks who might have an opportunity to make cash while playing games. I see people every day busting their asses in a dead end job that they hate. Go back home miserable with not enough money to go by. Why would giving the future an opportunity to make money while having fun be a bad thing? Where's the problem in that? Shit, is money is the root of all evil, probably. But as we are stuck with it and can't live without it, why not be able to make it in a more enjoyable fashion. Ask anyone who plays sports for a living, they will tell you the same. Sports are a game. Athletes make money for plyaying the game, why not, they are better than us at it. SO,why not let greater computer gamers make money too. If they don't you can bet your arse that others with less honorable purposes will be making it. (like they have been with online games for a decade now).
Conclusion:
This might be the beginning of a new era of online gaming. If it goes for the better, excellent. If not then it was wort a try and can always be sent the same way as the talisman, on the shelf. Who are we to criticize something that has yet come to life and that we do not yet fully understand. Be open minded and enjoy the fact that your even getting the chance to play a game. So many people don't.
No if implemented this will not be scrapped. The whole game will have been made around the RMT AH. If this game in the end is considered crap because of the RMT AH then there is nothing Blizzard can do short of wiping all servers and getting rid of the RMT AH.
But then there will be the contract with what ever online banking service they will sign with. There will be no scrapping of the RMT AH if it goes live.
And yes, you can say people are just trolling saying they won't buy the game, but really there are many that truly will not get this game with the RMT AH being in.
Thats not even including the skill revamp they did, that is also getting backlash, I am also sure the people that really are not buying the game, don't care if you think they are trolling they are simply expressing their feelings of the released information.
This is a huge game breaker if you don't see this as being a Pay to Win model then I don't know what to tell you. You should probably learn a little about human behavior and how at least here in the United States how a dollar means more to a lot of people than their family.
No if implemented this will not be scrapped. The whole game will have been made around the RMT AH. If this game in the end is considered crap because of the RMT AH then there is nothing Blizzard can do short of wiping all servers and getting rid of the RMT AH.
But then there will be the contract with what ever online banking service they will sign with. There will be no scrapping of the RMT AH if it goes live.
And yes, you can say people are just trolling saying they won't buy the game, but really there are many that truly will not get this game with the RMT AH being in.
Thats not even including the skill revamp they did, that is also getting backlash, I am also sure the people that really are not buying the game, don't care if you think they are trolling they are simply expressing their feelings of the released information.
This is a huge game breaker if you don't see this as being a Pay to Win model then I don't know what to tell you. You should probably learn a little about human behavior and how at least here in the United States how a dollar means more to a lot of people than their family.
I correct myself, you did read a few more sentences in your light skimming. but still, the fact that your trying to tell me after what I wrote the value of a dollar, shows you dont have a clue what i said in my other paragraphs.
Second, your just pushing your super thoery that they are trying to steal our money. When like i said , noone is forcing you to buy/sell items. The worst possible scenario of all being that the game is scrapped, still wouldnt affect Blizzard stealing your money. It would just be another case of us buying another flopped game. I've done that cuontless times but you know what, like anything else noone twisted my arm to buy the game. So your point is moot either way.
And seriously, pay to win what? Whos gonna win against what, your fighting monsters budddy. Where are you going with this?
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Diablo 3, Hottest shit to happen to 21st Century Entertainment since Georges "Rush" St-Pierre.______________ --------~~Mattheo's Quote of the day~~---------
----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums -------- Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
I love this so much. This is just a godly present for all those people like me, who played WoW not for pvp or pve but for the auction-pvp AND who love Diablo-games.
So far in this thread not one real concern was raised, because mostly the people who "hate" this new feature are the ones economically uneducated and plain dim-witted.
The only REAL issue I find with this announcement so far is it's effect on the Hardcore players community. I loved the Hardcore in D2 and for the last 3 years of my Diablo2-carrier I played exclusively HC, but I must admit, that I don't think I could play HC with so much money there to be made in SC. Probably most of the dedicated HC players feel this way. It would surely feel a waste to play HC, when you can play SC AND earn money doing it. I hope they change their mind about RMAH on HC.
HAHA I hope this makes tons of cash too. Since folks need it. But don't quit your job too fast man. lol Pressure of playing might not make it as interesting as making extra money on the side would.
You should probably learn a little about human behavior and how at least here in the United States how a dollar means more to a lot of people than their family.
I might not be American, but if I was I'd probably want to kick that ass for making such a dumb off topic generelization that you call a comment. That's pretty sad, kinda makes your whole argument worthless by showing
lack of judgement.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Diablo 3, Hottest shit to happen to 21st Century Entertainment since Georges "Rush" St-Pierre.______________ --------~~Mattheo's Quote of the day~~---------
----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums -------- Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
Econsfag here. Take it from someone who spent too many years studying Econs, that Blizzard is hitting some serious platinum in this idea.
Gold. Resource generated by D3. Tradable for money.
Money. Resource generated by the banks. Tradable for gold.
They are going to create a system by which the virtual goods (gold, items, etc) generated by D3 is given a money value.
1. Every item, gold piece or rune you find in D3 has an equivalent money value. You will earn real money when you play D3!
2. Due to arbitrage and the gold/money exchange rate, they will be able to generate a stable market. The central bank has tricks they can pull if there's too much or too little money, Blizzard has tricks they can pull if there's too much or too little gold too. They are gaining the powers of a central bank with respect to gold.
3. This is all going to be financed by people who put real money into RMT. These people, are going to be giving you money by financing this system. Previously they paid 3rd party sites, now they pay you.
TL;DR -- D3 lets you get richer when you play it and gives a stable economy for both gold or RMT trade.
Guys, really. If you doesn't have any experience in the economy market or any graduation degree on economy, you should stop making chaotic predictions about what economic impact the RMAH will have on the game. Blizzard clearly stated that they have employees with doctor degrees in economy, so they DO understand the basics of economy and doesn't need to be outsmarted by some people that only have a grasp on the subject.
First of all, there is NO FREE LUNCH. Each e-balance is directly related to each dollar used to buy an e-balance, so, different from the US credit system, there is no way to "create credit" without paying for it. On the contrary, the credit is always lower than the money used to buy e-balance since the fess will drain some of it. So, no "making money out of nothing". When you get e-balance that you didn't pay for it, someone paid for it.
It's not like in D2 where I could bot for months before I got banned. In D3, a ban will be quicker (it's easy to monitor suspicious behavior when measures are built-in to the game code).
I know it's few posts ago, but those sentences made me scratch my head. Exactly on what do you base your statement that bans in Diablo 3 will be quicker? What measures are built-in to prevent Boting? I'm really interested in this info, any links would be helpful.
There are no details on specifics for D3, so I'm merely talking about how stupidly it was handled in D2, and any person that is capable of breathing (i.e. isn't brain-dead) can figure out ways to make botting harder. Making it impossible is simply not... possible, but D2 botting was too easy.
Bans in Diablo 2 followed the following schedule:
The bot detection software (Warden) detected a bot. That is, an account running a lot of games and acting in a very bot-like fashion (clicking faster than a human can click, doing the same tasks repeatedly with no mistakes).
Warden gathers enough evidence that the account is a bot, flags the account as a bot.
These lists sit in Blizzard's hands for weeks, possibly months.
Then the bots are banned in a mass-ban, and news headlines ("100,000 accounts attached to bots were banned!") are posted in battle.net front page.
By simply removing the delay between flagging bots and actually banning them, this decreases the time a bot can run without a ban. Also, since we won't be able to make more than 1 account with one purchase of the game, a ban will be permanent -- unlike in D2 where getting your cd-keys banned required a lot of banned accounts and malicious activity. If your D2 account was banned, all you had to do was make a new one and start again.
So by simple 101 methods bans will be faster and botting won't be as easy. Not to mention Blizzard can include built-in detectors to the game code (that will detect easy scripts). Elaborate bots won't be as easily caught -- the ones that mimic human activity by increasing delay times and making them slightly random, but such bots won't be distributed for free over the internet like D2 bots were since they will require a lot of hours to be put in programming the bot and keeping it one step ahead of the Warden.
Because SC2 has people banned every day right? Right? o wait no they fail at that too with the rampand maphacks and drops hacks that ruin ladder in that game. Which was suppose to be an e-sport right?
To your last post before you look at the inflation with way too much optimism. The fact of the matter is anyone and everyone would rather put anything up in the RMT AH for money. Thus Gold has already lost its initial value other than crafting and repairs and what other gold sinks they have. It will no longer be used as something to trade with for items.
Not to mention that bots will be in the game, and the incentive to use bots is so high at this point you would almost be dumb not to use one, because its basically free money.
This does not solve any issues at all. There will still be every problem that they are trying to prevent with the introduction of the RMT AH. If you and anyone else really thinks this will solve all problems with a RMT AH then this game will just be the start of a cycle of games that are modeled as play to win and are sucessful.
I really hope you enjoy the future of games if this follows. Im done arguing, your points are always the same argument you bring nothing new to refute what I say, with every post talking about gold being real money, its a flawed argument and its been said by me and many others the holes in that argument.
This is a video game, there are holes to everything and they will be found there will be giant inflation just like every other RPG out there and as inflation for gold rises the value a dollar has on the game grows. Its not rocket sciences its not even difficult to grasp.
Enjoy the new game model of the future if this goes through. The Pay to Win model.
What the bloody uproar about?
Bashiok mention that they will come up with an idea to prevent previous player who had huge amounts of D2JSP money to get a head start on the game and also to prevent players from buying from third party websites.
I was sceptical at what they could possibly do to stop this.
Now that it been revealed, I think it the best possible solution.
Can you seriously think of a better solution?
AND PAY TO WIN IS NOT SOMETHING NEW. JOE BLOW JUST PURCHASED THE ABSOLUTE BEST ITEMS FROM WWW. AND YOU DIDNT EVEN KNOW ABOUT IT.
I read PhrozenDragon's article and he did list a few of the major drawbacks but I find one very important one that he missed (I think) is Market Manipulation. What will start to happen, because all items can be bought locally from a single point (the AH) is that people with large amounts of money (companies in China seeking profit in eg.) will use their buying power to wipe a high demand item off the market by outbidding everyone regardless and then sell for ridiculous prices. They can do this with gold OR cash. This doesn't even have to happen to high end items. And eventually intentional over-farming (BOTS or people, labor is cheap in Asia, very cheap). I get that there will always be 3rd parties trying to make money from such a popular game, but the AH makes it more accesible, more abundant and easier for these 3rd party companies to RUIN gameplay for people seeking a great gaming experience. If you leave the market to d2-esque trading or some middle ground in stead of one giant market, it will reduce the manipulation of items being sold/bought and profiteering. Although if I were a blizzard shareholder I would certainly want this system in the game, it is a good profit model - thats why I doubt you will see too many free trades.
I personally think, if Diablo is truly going for the gaming experience, they can do better than the RMAH.
I read PhrozenDragon's article and he did list a few of the major drawbacks but I find one very important one that he missed (I think) is Market Manipulation. What will start to happen, because all items can be bought locally from a single point (the AH) is that people with large amounts of money (companies in China seeking profit in eg.) will use their buying power to wipe a high demand item off the market by outbidding everyone regardless and then sell for ridiculous prices. They can do this with gold OR cash. This doesn't even have to happen to high end items. And eventually intentional over-farming (BOTS or people, labor is cheap in Asia, very cheap). I get that there will always be 3rd parties trying to make money from such a popular game, but the AH makes it more accesible, more abundant and easier for these 3rd party companies to RUIN gameplay for people seeking a great gaming experience. If you leave the market to d2-esque trading or some middle ground in stead of one giant market, it will reduce the manipulation of items being sold/bought and profiteering. Although if I were a blizzard shareholder I would certainly want this system in the game, it is a good profit model - thats why I doubt you will see too many free trades.
I personally think, if Diablo is truly going for the gaming experience, they can do better than the RMAH.
Surely if Blizzard is making money it will allow them to fund staff to monitor this kind of dodgy activity ingame.
And all this blizzard can do better. Please enlighten me with your better idea?
And this is the biggest problem of all things. You have two options:
1. Play soft core version by your own, farming your gold oldskool way. It will take probably months of farming to buy anything decent from AH.
2. Play hardcore version, which may dislike some players the idea of loosing it all.
When you say "nobody forces you" its a blind statement. Everything in the game affects everyone. So, if you don't roll money, the AH will be useless for you 100%. Since buying items with gold will be, mostly, impossible, and you will see it in matter of a month, items will not be sold for e-gold, they will be sold by money. E-gold will be like afghani currency or other really weak real world currencies since gold can be brutal-produced and sold as a RM, so gold will have an accessible price. People at the end will find that, farming gold by themselves isn't fun, and it will not be worth when you can buy 100k gold for 1 dollar. You will need for sure more than 100k gold to buy anything worth using gold, so you have 4 options in there:
1. Play constantly to get a 00.35% drop rate unique item.
2. Farm gold for a year to buy Epic rare unique item. Good luck with that.
3. Buy gold with real money then spent it on items, lol. Good luck with that.
4. Buy the item instantly for 20 bucks and forget about gold conversion ratio or inflationary prices. Good luck with that.
As you see, you have few free options. This isn't something "good" for any players, it's just Blizzard way to set a print machine for themselves while people get like zombies playing for win just a penny.
You cannot compete or make a living when you have deeper economies like China, Russian ones, any american thinking they will win 30 bucks from selling one epic is just dreaming. Any dedicated farming company will insta buy anything low on price to resell it until they control massively the market while Blizz dad will be sit down watching the cuttings taxes fill their banks.
Seriously guys, this is just another way to make a printing machine using their player base spent money instead playing and having fun with friends.
Simply putting it, you are completely wrong.
And I will not explain again why, if you would like to know, try to make an example and find out if the gold and money input is equivalent to the gold and money output you think will happen in this scenario.
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I wonder if the AH and RMAH will be functional in the beta?
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No, this will not eliminate the problem. Gold is a infinite resource Money is not. Gold will inflate and prices for items will rise. Nothing is solved by making gold traded for this e-balance.
You still end up with a game the turns into a pay to win model.
I am sorry but yes, gold in an infinite resource. You should look up what infinite means. The fact that there is no limit to how much gold can exist then there is an infinite amount of gold.
There will ALWAYS be more gold earned by every player than more gold spent. This will only get larger once most players have higher level characters while being geared to the teeth. As player characters get stronger the amount of gold per hour increases. Also once cookie cutter farming builds and farming spots are discovered the amount of gold will also increase. There is no end to the amount of gold or items for that matter to be found in Diablo 3.
I really don't see how you think gold is a limited resource in a game when all resources in said game are unlimited.
If you really can't see this then I really don't think there is any way for you to understand the fears of the RMAH. Its pretty easy to understand that in a game all resources such as gold are simply data that can and will be duplicated while a resource like real money is limited. There is a limit to the amount of money and the value it holds in the real world. While in Diablo 3 there is no limit to the amount of gold that can be created in its universe.
There are and always will be more way to cheat in anything than there is to stop or counter it. Look at sports if you are blind and don't think most of them use performance enhancers your crazy and have never looked into doping and that is real life. Anything digital has more holes than a sponge its just a matter of exploiting the holes.
You can get enough ppl to boycott the system because of ANTI -blizzard behavior as well as self profit motive. YOu can portentially have a group of farmers who do not sell items in the auction house but 3rd party websites. Of course 3rd party websites have to gain the trust of the customer. Assuming 3rd party is legit and fulfills ts offers, it can offer customers a bargain by offering godlies at cheaper than AH prices. Flawed AH system it is.
Why can blizz and payment system( e .g maybe paypal) benefit by making real money?
THe E balance system is lame credit system and the only thing blizzard has over the 3rd party sellers is trust and guarantee.
The exchange rate is also stupid. No one agrees with it. baseless determinants of exchange/gold, because there is no consensus on difficuluty obtaining gold / conversion
Because SC2 has people banned every day right? Right? o wait no they fail at that too with the rampand maphacks and drops hacks that ruin ladder in that game. Which was suppose to be an e-sport right?
To your last post before you look at the inflation with way too much optimism. The fact of the matter is anyone and everyone would rather put anything up in the RMT AH for money. Thus Gold has already lost its initial value other than crafting and repairs and what other gold sinks they have. It will no longer be used as something to trade with for items.
Not to mention that bots will be in the game, and the incentive to use bots is so high at this point you would almost be dumb not to use one, because its basically free money.
This does not solve any issues at all. There will still be every problem that they are trying to prevent with the introduction of the RMT AH. If you and anyone else really thinks this will solve all problems with a RMT AH then this game will just be the start of a cycle of games that are modeled as play to win and are sucessful.
I really hope you enjoy the future of games if this follows. Im done arguing, your points are always the same argument you bring nothing new to refute what I say, with every post talking about gold being real money, its a flawed argument and its been said by me and many others the holes in that argument.
This is a video game, there are holes to everything and they will be found there will be giant inflation just like every other RPG out there and as inflation for gold rises the value a dollar has on the game grows. Its not rocket sciences its not even difficult to grasp.
Enjoy the new game model of the future if this goes through. The Pay to Win model.
I'll break my opinion down to two part due to length.A/B
A)
1) Blizz knows how to make games, the fact that we have so much to discuss about and that we know as much
as we do about the in game ecnomics/hacks/bots/fixes/etc. Is simply because they made it possible, they created
the universe in which these things developed. (and if not them, other brilliant gaming companies). Let them deal
with the details and outcomes of their choices. Plus nobody is twisting your arm to pay for items.
2) If they find, down the line, that this system causes more grief than good, they will either change it or remove it, why? Because that's what Blizzard does. So debate however you want, noone can predict 100% the outcome. The only one thing we do know for sure is the following ....GO TO B (1)
3)I can understand folks who run scared at the thought of a broken economy, with good items only being sold in RMAH
and voicing their complaints about it(though it may not be justified). But I do NOT for one second pity the fools who complain about others buying their items with real money and beating them in PvP. Or saying that since Blizzard encourages buying items , they are somewhat insulted and won't be buying/playing the game. Crybabies....
First off myself, and pretty much everyone, don't believe a word of it when they say they wont play. And they know noone believes them too, so they just trolling. Second, that's like saying that since my neighbour's father has more money and my neighbour has a better inheritance, it ruins my life, I cant enjoy myself thus I should just end it. WTF?
I may not have the money to spend on D3, neither would my wife let me spend if i did. But if others do, good for them, shit. Why not let them spend their hard earned cash on something they hold dear to their hearts? And if they are kids spending their parent's hard earn cash, then that's an issue with the parent itself and has nothing to do with Blizzard. Watch and see if my child in the future spends a buck on gaming if I disagreed. I as a parent wouldn't be blaming Blizzard but myself for not educating my child with the values that I hold.
If I was a parent that didnt mind this kind of spending then I would be glad that the money is going towards entertainment. Better than them buying drugs on the streets, or sending money to shady 3rd party companies. Which brings me to my next point.
_____________________________________________________
B
1)No matter how you look at RMAH, flop or success. I'd rather pay 1000 bucks to a company that's been making games we enjoy for decades, than pay 1$ to shady 3rd party companies (not necessarily chinese) for item transactions. So if I was one of those guys planning on spending in D3, I would be freaking extatic to know that the money I'm about to spend isn't gonna go to a company that underpays a bunch of kids to farm, but instead is going to go to Blizzard who in return will have the resources to keep making games for years to come. That's called an indirect investment. That means thanks to folks who will be buying and selling real cash, my kids will probably get to enjoy Blizz games like we had in our youth.
2) To all the purists who say money shouldn't be in games. Why should making money in a game be any less significant than making money at work. Blizzard is possibly opening the doors to a whole new generation of folks who might have an opportunity to make cash while playing games. I see people every day busting their asses in a dead end job that they hate. Go back home miserable with not enough money to go by. Why would giving the future an opportunity to make money while having fun be a bad thing? Where's the problem in that? Shit, is money is the root of all evil, probably. But as we are stuck with it and can't live without it, why not be able to make it in a more enjoyable fashion. Ask anyone who plays sports for a living, they will tell you the same. Sports are a game. Athletes make money for plyaying the game, why not, they are better than us at it. SO,why not let greater computer gamers make money too. If they don't you can bet your arse that others with less honorable purposes will be making it. (like they have been with online games for a decade now).
Conclusion:
This might be the beginning of a new era of online gaming. If it goes for the better, excellent. If not then it was wort a try and can always be sent the same way as the talisman, on the shelf. Who are we to criticize something that has yet come to life and that we do not yet fully understand. Be open minded and enjoy the fact that your even getting the chance to play a game. So many people don't.
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Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
No if implemented this will not be scrapped. The whole game will have been made around the RMT AH. If this game in the end is considered crap because of the RMT AH then there is nothing Blizzard can do short of wiping all servers and getting rid of the RMT AH.
But then there will be the contract with what ever online banking service they will sign with. There will be no scrapping of the RMT AH if it goes live.
And yes, you can say people are just trolling saying they won't buy the game, but really there are many that truly will not get this game with the RMT AH being in.
Thats not even including the skill revamp they did, that is also getting backlash, I am also sure the people that really are not buying the game, don't care if you think they are trolling they are simply expressing their feelings of the released information.
This is a huge game breaker if you don't see this as being a Pay to Win model then I don't know what to tell you. You should probably learn a little about human behavior and how at least here in the United States how a dollar means more to a lot of people than their family.
I correct myself, you did read a few more sentences in your light skimming. but still, the fact that your trying to tell me after what I wrote the value of a dollar, shows you dont have a clue what i said in my other paragraphs.
Second, your just pushing your super thoery that they are trying to steal our money. When like i said , noone is forcing you to buy/sell items. The worst possible scenario of all being that the game is scrapped, still wouldnt affect Blizzard stealing your money. It would just be another case of us buying another flopped game. I've done that cuontless times but you know what, like anything else noone twisted my arm to buy the game. So your point is moot either way.
And seriously, pay to win what? Whos gonna win against what, your fighting monsters budddy. Where are you going with this?
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Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
So far in this thread not one real concern was raised, because mostly the people who "hate" this new feature are the ones economically uneducated and plain dim-witted.
The only REAL issue I find with this announcement so far is it's effect on the Hardcore players community. I loved the Hardcore in D2 and for the last 3 years of my Diablo2-carrier I played exclusively HC, but I must admit, that I don't think I could play HC with so much money there to be made in SC. Probably most of the dedicated HC players feel this way. It would surely feel a waste to play HC, when you can play SC AND earn money doing it. I hope they change their mind about RMAH on HC.
PS. I am so quitting my job this winter.
HAHA I hope this makes tons of cash too. Since folks need it. But don't quit your job too fast man. lol Pressure of playing might not make it as interesting as making extra money on the side would.
I might not be American, but if I was I'd probably want to kick that ass for making such a dumb off topic generelization that you call a comment. That's pretty sad, kinda makes your whole argument worthless by showing
lack of judgement.
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Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
Gold. Resource generated by D3. Tradable for money.
Money. Resource generated by the banks. Tradable for gold.
They are going to create a system by which the virtual goods (gold, items, etc) generated by D3 is given a money value.
1. Every item, gold piece or rune you find in D3 has an equivalent money value. You will earn real money when you play D3!
2. Due to arbitrage and the gold/money exchange rate, they will be able to generate a stable market. The central bank has tricks they can pull if there's too much or too little money, Blizzard has tricks they can pull if there's too much or too little gold too. They are gaining the powers of a central bank with respect to gold.
3. This is all going to be financed by people who put real money into RMT. These people, are going to be giving you money by financing this system. Previously they paid 3rd party sites, now they pay you.
TL;DR -- D3 lets you get richer when you play it and gives a stable economy for both gold or RMT trade.
Successful company is successful.
First of all, there is NO FREE LUNCH. Each e-balance is directly related to each dollar used to buy an e-balance, so, different from the US credit system, there is no way to "create credit" without paying for it. On the contrary, the credit is always lower than the money used to buy e-balance since the fess will drain some of it. So, no "making money out of nothing". When you get e-balance that you didn't pay for it, someone paid for it.
What the bloody uproar about?
Bashiok mention that they will come up with an idea to prevent previous player who had huge amounts of D2JSP money to get a head start on the game and also to prevent players from buying from third party websites.
I was sceptical at what they could possibly do to stop this.
Now that it been revealed, I think it the best possible solution.
Can you seriously think of a better solution?
AND PAY TO WIN IS NOT SOMETHING NEW. JOE BLOW JUST PURCHASED THE ABSOLUTE BEST ITEMS FROM WWW. AND YOU DIDNT EVEN KNOW ABOUT IT.
I personally think, if Diablo is truly going for the gaming experience, they can do better than the RMAH.
Surely if Blizzard is making money it will allow them to fund staff to monitor this kind of dodgy activity ingame.
And all this blizzard can do better. Please enlighten me with your better idea?
Simply putting it, you are completely wrong.
And I will not explain again why, if you would like to know, try to make an example and find out if the gold and money input is equivalent to the gold and money output you think will happen in this scenario.