As you all know Diablo's economy is at the mercy of inflation. It's just Diablo's style, you play for hours and hoard your treasure. This can make the game more complicated since item prices can change on a daily basis. It can also make the game seem a little more tedious for people who start a little late. Where gathering resources is at it's slowest due to item prices being much higher then when the now seasoned players started.
I think it's finally time for Blizzard to implement an in game solution to inflation with the new sequel. It can be done in so many ways, so one example will do for now.
After awhile, the only items that start to have any real value are the BEST items. So you could be playing for hours and get the fourth, third, or even the second BEST items and they will be much, much less valuable then the BEST items. A solution? (ONLY AN EXAMPLE) If it takes a player 1 hour to get the SECOND BEST item in the game, and also 1 hour to obtain roughly 10 gold. Then the item should be able to be bought by any NPC for it's REAL value, 10 gold. This won't stop the BEST items in the game from being the most sought after, but it will stop all the other items from becoming worthless when the BEST items start to flood the economy.
And with this system, item prices will always be a little higher then what the NPC's offer. So people can always check to see how much an item is worth by simply consulting any NPC within close proximity. It's simple you trade for the highest offer that's above what the NPC offers. And if you can't find one you simply sell it to an NPC and get the time you put into finding that item back in gold. You will never be disappointed with a mediocre drop, that took some time to get, ever again.
This system should be non-reversible, meaning that you can't buy end game items from an NPC. Because that would just set the Item prices in stone. With the selling only method there is plenty of room for good offers. After awhile however, gold itself will start to pile up. Which too, would start to set the item prices in stone. All that is needed is GREAT end-game gold sink that everyone will want to spend their hoarded gold on.
This would of course assume Blizzard is able to accurately judge the worth of an item. Also, it would force manual price setting, as anything automated could be easily abused.
I doubt we have to worry about economy. Diablo 3 is not developed 10 years ago, Blizzard have learned a lot about economy from D2 and WoW, they can pull off something that works. D2 economy was horrible, WoW was ok, but not nearly perfect, I bet D3 will improve it even further.
How was WoW's economy "ok"? Really, I have never seen an economy in a game that was so interesting and fun to play around with. Of course, it relies heavily on all of the MMO elements around it, so they can't use just that for D3.
The economy had little flaws that are inevitable, and most were logical. Its been a while I played WoW but I still say it was brilliantly done.
Or course, if it weren't for crafting materials and Epic Flying Mounts, the economy would probably be similar to Diablos. As it is, WoW has managed to find end-game money sinks. I wonder what Diablo 3 will have?
This would of course assume Blizzard is able to accurately judge the worth of an item. Also, it would force manual price setting, as anything automated could be easily abused.
That's simple, they know the exact drop rate of each item. And they know the drop rate of gold. To find the item value all they would have to do is match the 2 to each item. Or like my example before, 1 hour to get a specific item should equal roughly 1 hour of gold farming (on average).
The best items (as in endgame) are BoE, also you don't need to worry about the economics in Diablo3. Bashiok (in reply to somebody like you) said that they hired economists to create a working economy for Diablo 3, they can do that because the economy is build next to the base game.
This brings us to the conclusion that the economy in Diablo 3 is nothing like Diablo 2. Perhaps a better example is the economy in WoW, we might not all like that game, but at least the economy is pretty solid in that one. (Far better then D2.)
Someone like me? The only thing I trust from Blizzard is their gameplay. And that's all that seems to be speculated on around here. I have no doubt in my mind that Diablo 3 is going to be a great game. I also trust that the economy will be better than Diablo 2's. It also amazes me that everyone thinks the economy is going to be so closely related to WOW's just because they are putting in an auction house and a few BoE's. It's still DIABLO.
The main differences of WOW are: Every descent item in WOW is BoE, not just end-game. You get all the best items from simply running instances a few times. There is a constant demand for all items since it takes a lot longer to level (it could be the same for D3). There are tons of gold sinks (not that there couldn't be in D3). These few things are a big difference. But as long as Blizzard takes care of inflation, I won't talk about it anymore.
P.S. I wanna talk about whether or not the demons in Diablo 3 will have facial expressions.
That's simple, they know the exact drop rate of each item. And they know the drop rate of gold. To find the item value all they would have to do is match the 2 to each item. Or like my example before, 1 hour to get a specific item should equal roughly 1 hour of gold farming (on average).
So we're assuming all characters have equal kill rate? We're assuming all runs will be done with equal frequency? Runes have a good drop rate from Countess, but you get more runs of Baal. Does that mean Runes are still worth less, since they have a high drop rate?
Large mobs are the easiest way to get gold. End-bosses are the easiest way to get good uniques. Berserk Barbarians are very good at killing single opponents, but pale in comparison to a meteorb sorceress when killing swarms, so the sorceress gets gold faster. Does that inflate the prices, since more gold is coming in? What if the sorceress can get gold faster than the barbarian can get equal valued items?
How do you gold farm if prices are set by how much gold farming is done? The best way to get gold is selling items, not picking up piles. But, if selling items is how you farm gold, and you set the value by how much gold you farm, isn't that a self-referential loop?
P.S. I wanna talk about whether or not the demons in Diablo 3 will have facial expressions.
This would of course assume Blizzard is able to accurately judge the worth of an item. Also, it would force manual price setting, as anything automated could be easily abused.
That's simple, they know the exact drop rate of each item. And they know the drop rate of gold. To find the item value all they would have to do is match the 2 to each item. Or like my example before, 1 hour to get a specific item should equal roughly 1 hour of gold farming (on average).
Non sense.
Prices are not determined by mere rarity. There are other factors. From PvP metagame to most popular classes, everything has influence over prices. This "avarage" will constantly dictates unreal situation.
It almost sounds like economic plan. Something completly inviable that requires a huge usage of statistical calculation for no reason since market forces can easilly balance prices in the best way possible.
At the same time, if you trully have studied to be an economist (no basic economy you got at school does not make you an economist) you would know that all economies share basic resemblances. Actually they have more in common then not.
Demand, prise, inflation and a whole lot of other terms I do not know the English words of are present in them all. That includes game economies.
..and we -do- learn this at basic economy. At least we do here.
I think you're missing the point that D3 and WoW are different games, and that the exact same system could cause more harm than good. Yes the basics of economy won't change, but the rules around it will, because of how money, items and demands in-games works compared to real life.
Prices are not determined by mere rarity. There are other factors. From PvP metagame to most popular classes, everything has influence over prices.
Example, torches. Druid torch? Not worth very much. Paladin Torch, especially a perfect one? One of the most valuable items in the game.
Also, how to deal with perfect items vs. weaker ones? Find the statistical probability of getting a high roll vs. a low roll? Because if stats are truly randomized, a Perfect Paladin Torch would be worth the same, statistically, as the lowest Druid Torch.
I hope that Blizzard will not focus too much on the economy and more on the game itself and giving more variety to the items and not what happened to LoD. In classic for the most part rares were the best items unless you were looking for a particular mod.
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Prices are not determined by mere rarity. There are other factors. From PvP metagame to most popular classes, everything has influence over prices.
Example, torches. Druid torch? Not worth very much. Paladin Torch, especially a perfect one? One of the most valuable items in the game.
Also, how to deal with perfect items vs. weaker ones? Find the statistical probability of getting a high roll vs. a low roll? Because if stats are truly randomized, a Perfect Paladin Torch would be worth the same, statistically, as the lowest Druid Torch.
I get where you are going with that, but that's not the point. Even though Diablo could have a very popular class I think Blizzard (mostly Bashiok) has said time, and time again that they really want to balance every class this time. So we can assume that even though there may be a "most popular" class I don't think it will be as bad as Diablo 2 was for Paladins. So the item prices should be more evened out.
Also, my bad for implying that it's more simple then it actually is. The solution is to change the item price to something that will allow you to get something for your time put into finding the item. This system isn't designed so that you can simply go and sell off all of your items instead of trading them, it's just some reasonable compensation for the time you've spent, if nobody want the item, and a minimum item price regulator. So that items will never become totally "worthless" due to inflation.
And Sofawall read my second paragraph, it's not an item trading replacement system. It's has nothing to do with EXACT item prices. And you really can't speculate on which mobs will drop more gold since the game isn't out. In your case, Diablo 3 would end up like Diablo 2 if gold was that easy to obtain.
And Sofawall read my second paragraph, it's not an item trading replacement system. It's has nothing to do with EXACT item prices. And you really can't speculate on which mobs will drop more gold since the game isn't out. In your case, Diablo 3 would end up like Diablo 2 if gold was that easy to obtain.
Which second paragraph? The one one would assume I would read before reading this one? Or the second paragraph in the thread, one which says little with regards to any concerns I have raised? Or the second paragraph you wrote on this site, which has nothing to do with it?
Also, don't we already sell items for gold? The problem is, there is nothing to spend gold on other than mercenaries. The problem isn't making prices for items, WoW has shown that will take care of itself. The problem is making a currency. In D2, that was (by and large) High Runes, because you could do something with them. For gold to be used as a player-to-player currency, we need it to be actually worth something. We need end-game gold sinks.
Also, don't we already sell items for gold? The problem is, there is nothing to spend gold on other than mercenaries. The problem isn't making prices for items, WoW has shown that will take care of itself. The problem is making a currency. In D2, that was (by and large) High Runes, because you could do something with them. For gold to be used as a player-to-player currency, we need it to be actually worth something. We need end-game gold sinks.
Only time I remember spending a lot of gold in the unmodded game was in the classic days before the expansion when I gambled for items to get a good rare or a good ring/amulet (unique/rare).
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I think it's finally time for Blizzard to implement an in game solution to inflation with the new sequel. It can be done in so many ways, so one example will do for now.
After awhile, the only items that start to have any real value are the BEST items. So you could be playing for hours and get the fourth, third, or even the second BEST items and they will be much, much less valuable then the BEST items. A solution? (ONLY AN EXAMPLE) If it takes a player 1 hour to get the SECOND BEST item in the game, and also 1 hour to obtain roughly 10 gold. Then the item should be able to be bought by any NPC for it's REAL value, 10 gold. This won't stop the BEST items in the game from being the most sought after, but it will stop all the other items from becoming worthless when the BEST items start to flood the economy.
And with this system, item prices will always be a little higher then what the NPC's offer. So people can always check to see how much an item is worth by simply consulting any NPC within close proximity. It's simple you trade for the highest offer that's above what the NPC offers. And if you can't find one you simply sell it to an NPC and get the time you put into finding that item back in gold. You will never be disappointed with a mediocre drop, that took some time to get, ever again.
This system should be non-reversible, meaning that you can't buy end game items from an NPC. Because that would just set the Item prices in stone. With the selling only method there is plenty of room for good offers. After awhile however, gold itself will start to pile up. Which too, would start to set the item prices in stone. All that is needed is GREAT end-game gold sink that everyone will want to spend their hoarded gold on.
The economy had little flaws that are inevitable, and most were logical. Its been a while I played WoW but I still say it was brilliantly done.
That's simple, they know the exact drop rate of each item. And they know the drop rate of gold. To find the item value all they would have to do is match the 2 to each item. Or like my example before, 1 hour to get a specific item should equal roughly 1 hour of gold farming (on average).
Someone like me? The only thing I trust from Blizzard is their gameplay. And that's all that seems to be speculated on around here. I have no doubt in my mind that Diablo 3 is going to be a great game. I also trust that the economy will be better than Diablo 2's. It also amazes me that everyone thinks the economy is going to be so closely related to WOW's just because they are putting in an auction house and a few BoE's. It's still DIABLO.
The main differences of WOW are: Every descent item in WOW is BoE, not just end-game. You get all the best items from simply running instances a few times. There is a constant demand for all items since it takes a lot longer to level (it could be the same for D3). There are tons of gold sinks (not that there couldn't be in D3). These few things are a big difference. But as long as Blizzard takes care of inflation, I won't talk about it anymore.
P.S. I wanna talk about whether or not the demons in Diablo 3 will have facial expressions.
So we're assuming all characters have equal kill rate? We're assuming all runs will be done with equal frequency? Runes have a good drop rate from Countess, but you get more runs of Baal. Does that mean Runes are still worth less, since they have a high drop rate?
Large mobs are the easiest way to get gold. End-bosses are the easiest way to get good uniques. Berserk Barbarians are very good at killing single opponents, but pale in comparison to a meteorb sorceress when killing swarms, so the sorceress gets gold faster. Does that inflate the prices, since more gold is coming in? What if the sorceress can get gold faster than the barbarian can get equal valued items?
How do you gold farm if prices are set by how much gold farming is done? The best way to get gold is selling items, not picking up piles. But, if selling items is how you farm gold, and you set the value by how much gold you farm, isn't that a self-referential loop?
Cool story, bro.
Non sense.
Prices are not determined by mere rarity. There are other factors. From PvP metagame to most popular classes, everything has influence over prices. This "avarage" will constantly dictates unreal situation.
It almost sounds like economic plan. Something completly inviable that requires a huge usage of statistical calculation for no reason since market forces can easilly balance prices in the best way possible.
I think you're missing the point that D3 and WoW are different games, and that the exact same system could cause more harm than good. Yes the basics of economy won't change, but the rules around it will, because of how money, items and demands in-games works compared to real life.
Example, torches. Druid torch? Not worth very much. Paladin Torch, especially a perfect one? One of the most valuable items in the game.
Also, how to deal with perfect items vs. weaker ones? Find the statistical probability of getting a high roll vs. a low roll? Because if stats are truly randomized, a Perfect Paladin Torch would be worth the same, statistically, as the lowest Druid Torch.
I get where you are going with that, but that's not the point. Even though Diablo could have a very popular class I think Blizzard (mostly Bashiok) has said time, and time again that they really want to balance every class this time. So we can assume that even though there may be a "most popular" class I don't think it will be as bad as Diablo 2 was for Paladins. So the item prices should be more evened out.
Also, my bad for implying that it's more simple then it actually is. The solution is to change the item price to something that will allow you to get something for your time put into finding the item. This system isn't designed so that you can simply go and sell off all of your items instead of trading them, it's just some reasonable compensation for the time you've spent, if nobody want the item, and a minimum item price regulator. So that items will never become totally "worthless" due to inflation.
And Sofawall read my second paragraph, it's not an item trading replacement system. It's has nothing to do with EXACT item prices. And you really can't speculate on which mobs will drop more gold since the game isn't out. In your case, Diablo 3 would end up like Diablo 2 if gold was that easy to obtain.
Which second paragraph? The one one would assume I would read before reading this one? Or the second paragraph in the thread, one which says little with regards to any concerns I have raised? Or the second paragraph you wrote on this site, which has nothing to do with it?
Also, don't we already sell items for gold? The problem is, there is nothing to spend gold on other than mercenaries. The problem isn't making prices for items, WoW has shown that will take care of itself. The problem is making a currency. In D2, that was (by and large) High Runes, because you could do something with them. For gold to be used as a player-to-player currency, we need it to be actually worth something. We need end-game gold sinks.
Only time I remember spending a lot of gold in the unmodded game was in the classic days before the expansion when I gambled for items to get a good rare or a good ring/amulet (unique/rare).