Hi dfans. I posted the below on the SC2GDF and wanted to do the same here to raise awareness.
This thread is a compilation of videos and photo evidence demonstrating how broken the hit detection is in D3. According to Blizzard this is intended design to prevent dodging, as they deem it not fun for players and not part of their design philosophy. Evidence here: http://us.battle.net...c/4427663050#15
Blizz, I implore you to give this attention because it's frustrating and I believe a fundamental flaw that's preventing many from enjoying your game. Hardcore is suicide because hit detection is unpredictable. Inferno is pointless because you get 1-shot and cannot effectively avoid taking hits. If this persists in PvP it'll enrage players.
I want to be able to dodge attacks and missiles. I want to test my reflexes. I want to feel like I'm in control of my characters survivability. And more importantly...I want to keep playing this game. But this issue is really making me question why I'm investing time into D3.
Until this issue is resolved I can no longer look at D3 in a positive light . There's a lot of bugs in D3 which can be excused. This one, I feel, is game breaking.
yeap, this is my biggest issue with d3. I really want to use vault to avoid stuff but it's actually impossible if the mob started its attack animantion. You end up dying from a melee hit after you vaulted away from it.
I hear ya. On countless occasions I've tried to escape attacks using vault, leap and furious charge...only to have my body reduced to bones when the escape animation completed because the monster attacked my previous position. We need clairvoyance to dodge attacks since you cannot rely on visual clues. When a monster begins its attack animations you're already hit.
I have had no problem using vault to avoid attacks so far, esp. on the diablo fight to the point where as long as I have the discipline to use it, I wont be hit by the teleport attacks that he uses. I don't doubt that smoke screen is easier and more reliable for all cases than vault, but vault is still usable.
As a side note, you can avoid the jailer debuff using vault if jailer is cast mid vault always humorous to see when that happens.
You're idiots for still thinking this is a problem. This has been covered again and again.
This is a by-design mechanical choice intended to create a style of gameplay the encourages extended melee encounters in favor of "fencing". Trying to sidestep in and out of combat the entire time isn't fun, and Blizzard knows that. Some attacks are designed to be dodged by movement, and others aren't. Every example you posted is an example of "you gave them a proc, they get to try and hit you". Not a single example there is of a dodge-able attack.
/thread.
Moves like dodge and spirit walk are meant to be fired just before a monster reaches you and launches an attack. If you can't handle the simplicity of that, I don't know what to tell you. Working as intended.
This is a by-design mechanical choice intended to create a style of gameplay the encourages extended melee encounters in favor of "fencing". Trying to sidestep in and out of combat the entire time isn't fun, and Blizzard knows that. Some attacks are designed to be dodged by movement, and others aren't. Every example you posted is an example of "you gave them a proc, they get to try and hit you". Not a single example there is of a dodge-able attack.
I don't agree with their "By Design" reasoning, and despite their claims would enjoy this game infinitely more if I could dodge attacks with reflexes and quick fingers. Being forced to stand in harms way because it's impossible to avoid damage is not my idea of fun. That philosophy removes much of the challenge and enjoyment in playing the game.
Seriously get some fucking runspeed and stutter-step-kite it's not very hard.
If it is hard, get a trap and enjoy your mobs being 60% slowed.
Animation and dmg isn't the same thing, the damage is rolled once the mob starts it's attack thats why you get hit, only projectiles count when you get hit due to the fact that they're ranged.
Really? Because you're not good enough to stay out of range of the mobs attacks?
You don't use the glasscannon DH build in HC anyways, there are plenty of other reasons for not playing hardcore, but the game not being even more easymode for ranged classes than it is isn't one of them.
I'll never play HC because if the servers drop like the have already two dozen times I'm guaranteed to lose my character. Also because I don't see any other draw to it, it's basically the hard part without the fun part of being able to dick around and push your limits (until they break, in many occasions).
IE: I should really kite these / run and heal, but MAYBE I win, LEEEROOOOOY.
The stinging flies are a bit questionable. I have never run into that, though. I think the perspective makes their projectiles deceptive as to their actual location, similar to why you use "flyer helpers" in Starcraft II to show the true ground location of mutalisks when you're trying to kite marines.
This is a by-design mechanical choice intended to create a style of gameplay the encourages extended melee encounters in favor of "fencing". Trying to sidestep in and out of combat the entire time isn't fun, and Blizzard knows that. Some attacks are designed to be dodged by movement, and others aren't. Every example you posted is an example of "you gave them a proc, they get to try and hit you". Not a single example there is of a dodge-able attack.
I don't agree with their "By Design" reasoning, and despite their claims would enjoy this game infinitely more if I could dodge attacks with reflexes and quick fingers. Being forced to stand in harms way because it's impossible to avoid damage is not my idea of fun. That philosophy removes much of the challenge and enjoyment in playing the game.
So leave, and go program your own multi-billion dollar game. You are clearly superior. If you want Torchlight 2, just go fucking play it. This has been a known thing for months and months prior to release.
I happen to think gameplay designed around "dance in and out all the time" removes much of the challenge and enjoyment in playing the game.
I happen to think gameplay designed around "dance in and out all the time" removes much of the challenge and enjoyment in playing the game.
So you actually prefer a game that has less skillfull play in favor of simple gear checks? You're likely in the target audience Blizz has catered this game to...those who will willingly buy an equipment loadout for $300 on the AH because they've accepted that's their only chance at success in D3.
I've died to that retarded wasp bug so many times. I'm pretty sure if they are off screen when they do their shoot animation then their "bullets" are invisible to you.
All of those videos involve some kind of a desynch or latency issues. A few of them just suck. Yes, if a monster starts the hit and you were there, it iwll most likely hit you even if you ran. Most of those videos dont prove a thing seriously. The wasps bug never happened to me. Diablo does that shit all the time, yes. But how no one complained about the big golems from act 2? they hit from like a screen away sometimes lol...
anyway i dont think this is such a big deal since dodging still exists in this game, and yes you can dodge and evade stuff with a bit of skill. If it does not look that realistic it does not mean that its not there. I think its a learn to play issue like 80% of the times to be honest. but yes, some shit in this game is just broken.
I happen to think gameplay designed around "dance in and out all the time" removes much of the challenge and enjoyment in playing the game.
So you actually prefer a game that has less skillfull play in favor of simple gear checks? You're likely in the target audience Blizz has catered this game to...those who will willingly buy an equipment loadout for $300 on the AH because they've accepted that's their only chance at success in D3.
Skill = vaulting away before the enemy gets close enough to swing at you or simply never letting it get close enough.
You're sitting here talking about skill and completely ignoring the fact that what you're asking for is already in the game, you just have to play a bit differently to utilize it. You don't dodge the attacks, you dodge the mob. If the mob can't swing at you, it can't hit you.
So, I suggest getting some practice in and learning that "skill." Hitting a button when you see a mob start winding up a melee attack is not skill -- it's reaction. Preventing that mob from starting the windup is skill.
Skill = vaulting away before the enemy gets close enough to swing at you or simply never letting it get close enough.
Here's what I don't understand...people justifying that avoiding monster proximity is every bit as skilled as avoiding monster attacks. Sometimes it's physically impossible to avoid getting placed in harms way. Vortex/teleport minions assert that. So if a thousand pounder teleports next to your DH, vaulting away won't do you a bit of good if he chooses that moment to crush you with both hands. You're dead when that vault completes.
The issue here extends beyond just the DH. Take furious charge, for example. I've charged through a pack of monsters in inferno. While passing through, one monster that's just outside my path of travel decides to strike at me in transit. My charge ends, I'm 2 inches away, and my barb still receives damage.
I agree with you that dodging a melee strike when it winds up is reaction. I do not agree that preventing a monster from getting in close proximity is skill. That is kiting. Kiting monster avoidance is the name of the game in inferno, and I'm here to argue it's not fun when taken to the extreme.
With practice and experience players should be able to learn the various monster attack animations and successfully dodge them with some well timed reactions. Right now that's just not the case. Players versed in this game learn that getting into monster proximity will get you struck...no matter what. And if you lack the gear to survive/dodge that you're f'ed. All because Blizzard decided that dodging attacks is not allowed and your time is better spent grinding/buying gear to help you absorb/avoid the inevitable 1-shot.
I dont care about small stuff like zombies or those little fallen guys hitting you, but on fights with big monsters or bosses like diablo where its super obvious he didnt touch you even though you are dead it looks really sloppy and lazy.
I guess my point is I understand why it was done and mostly agree(I think vaults, and pretty much all mobility skills dashing strike, furious charge, teleport should grant invulnerability) but I hate it astecically on large enemies.
It's already been talked over, time and time again.
Hit detection in this game is GARBAGE. Worse than its predecessor. This is either by blizzards 'design intent' or by their pure laziness and thus just called it design intent. Regardless, the game does not promote skilled play as much as a should, and rather promotes a skill choice (see smoke screen, teleport, diamond skin, warcry etc) + gear check.
Depending on what class you are, the gear check is either high or low, regardless, it is what is. Half the skills aren't even viable in inferno unless you overgear the living shit out of the content you're doing. So you either accept this, or you dont.
If you don't, as a fan of Diablo, yes you're more than welcome to voice your opinion about it, and to do so here, because this is DIABLOFANS, not DIABLO3FANS. There are plenty of alternatives to Diablo 3 that actually provide skill systems to let you play however you want, and that promote skill play, and not gear play. GO PLAY THOSE GAMES. If you feel this is diablocraft and a bastardization to the series, GO PLAY THOSE GAMES. If you feel that this game is just a cashcow with the RMAH, GO PLAY THOSE GAMES.
No one is stopping you from playing other games that do better than what blizzard has done in certain categories.
So if you dont like broken laggy hit detection, which makes dodging near impossible, here you go.
I play all dungeon grinders, including diablo 3. Yes diablo 3 has pathetic hit detection, if it pisses you off that much, go play PoE, or Grimdawn, or wait for Dungeonlands, or go play TQ, or better yet, play D2 and D1 etc.
Tahtah
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
it's not an issue of working as intended, It's an issue of, its a bad fucking design, and as such people are pissed about it. The people upset about it dont honestly give a fuck if blizzard says it's working as intended, because that response means nothing to them. These people kind of dont want the game to feel like a laggy piece of shit, sitting at 40ms getting hit by shit they clearly dodged.
That's the problem.
Further blizzard has been torn apart time and time again on their own forums, these forums, reddit, about this very issue. Apparently you didnt know BLIZZARD COMES HERE TO READ...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
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This thread is a compilation of videos and photo evidence demonstrating how broken the hit detection is in D3. According to Blizzard this is intended design to prevent dodging, as they deem it not fun for players and not part of their design philosophy. Evidence here: http://us.battle.net...c/4427663050#15
Blizz, I implore you to give this attention because it's frustrating and I believe a fundamental flaw that's preventing many from enjoying your game. Hardcore is suicide because hit detection is unpredictable. Inferno is pointless because you get 1-shot and cannot effectively avoid taking hits. If this persists in PvP it'll enrage players.
- http://www.diablo3pr...hardcore-death/
- http://imgur.com/a/puNOU#1
- http://www.reddit.co.../comments/v1fwn
- http://imgur.com/a/crN39#0
I want to be able to dodge attacks and missiles. I want to test my reflexes. I want to feel like I'm in control of my characters survivability. And more importantly...I want to keep playing this game. But this issue is really making me question why I'm investing time into D3.
Until this issue is resolved I can no longer look at D3 in a positive light . There's a lot of bugs in D3 which can be excused. This one, I feel, is game breaking.
I hear ya. On countless occasions I've tried to escape attacks using vault, leap and furious charge...only to have my body reduced to bones when the escape animation completed because the monster attacked my previous position. We need clairvoyance to dodge attacks since you cannot rely on visual clues. When a monster begins its attack animations you're already hit.
As a side note, you can avoid the jailer debuff using vault if jailer is cast mid vault always humorous to see when that happens.
This is a by-design mechanical choice intended to create a style of gameplay the encourages extended melee encounters in favor of "fencing". Trying to sidestep in and out of combat the entire time isn't fun, and Blizzard knows that. Some attacks are designed to be dodged by movement, and others aren't. Every example you posted is an example of "you gave them a proc, they get to try and hit you". Not a single example there is of a dodge-able attack.
/thread.
Moves like dodge and spirit walk are meant to be fired just before a monster reaches you and launches an attack. If you can't handle the simplicity of that, I don't know what to tell you. Working as intended.
I don't agree with their "By Design" reasoning, and despite their claims would enjoy this game infinitely more if I could dodge attacks with reflexes and quick fingers. Being forced to stand in harms way because it's impossible to avoid damage is not my idea of fun. That philosophy removes much of the challenge and enjoyment in playing the game.
I'll never play HC because if the servers drop like the have already two dozen times I'm guaranteed to lose my character. Also because I don't see any other draw to it, it's basically the hard part without the fun part of being able to dick around and push your limits (until they break, in many occasions).
IE: I should really kite these / run and heal, but MAYBE I win, LEEEROOOOOY.
The stinging flies are a bit questionable. I have never run into that, though. I think the perspective makes their projectiles deceptive as to their actual location, similar to why you use "flyer helpers" in Starcraft II to show the true ground location of mutalisks when you're trying to kite marines.
So leave, and go program your own multi-billion dollar game. You are clearly superior. If you want Torchlight 2, just go fucking play it. This has been a known thing for months and months prior to release.
I happen to think gameplay designed around "dance in and out all the time" removes much of the challenge and enjoyment in playing the game.
So you actually prefer a game that has less skillfull play in favor of simple gear checks? You're likely in the target audience Blizz has catered this game to...those who will willingly buy an equipment loadout for $300 on the AH because they've accepted that's their only chance at success in D3.
anyway i dont think this is such a big deal since dodging still exists in this game, and yes you can dodge and evade stuff with a bit of skill. If it does not look that realistic it does not mean that its not there. I think its a learn to play issue like 80% of the times to be honest. but yes, some shit in this game is just broken.
You're sitting here talking about skill and completely ignoring the fact that what you're asking for is already in the game, you just have to play a bit differently to utilize it. You don't dodge the attacks, you dodge the mob. If the mob can't swing at you, it can't hit you.
So, I suggest getting some practice in and learning that "skill." Hitting a button when you see a mob start winding up a melee attack is not skill -- it's reaction. Preventing that mob from starting the windup is skill.
Here's what I don't understand...people justifying that avoiding monster proximity is every bit as skilled as avoiding monster attacks. Sometimes it's physically impossible to avoid getting placed in harms way. Vortex/teleport minions assert that. So if a thousand pounder teleports next to your DH, vaulting away won't do you a bit of good if he chooses that moment to crush you with both hands. You're dead when that vault completes.
The issue here extends beyond just the DH. Take furious charge, for example. I've charged through a pack of monsters in inferno. While passing through, one monster that's just outside my path of travel decides to strike at me in transit. My charge ends, I'm 2 inches away, and my barb still receives damage.
I agree with you that dodging a melee strike when it winds up is reaction. I do not agree that preventing a monster from getting in close proximity is skill. That is kiting. Kiting monster avoidance is the name of the game in inferno, and I'm here to argue it's not fun when taken to the extreme.
With practice and experience players should be able to learn the various monster attack animations and successfully dodge them with some well timed reactions. Right now that's just not the case. Players versed in this game learn that getting into monster proximity will get you struck...no matter what. And if you lack the gear to survive/dodge that you're f'ed. All because Blizzard decided that dodging attacks is not allowed and your time is better spent grinding/buying gear to help you absorb/avoid the inevitable 1-shot.
I guess my point is I understand why it was done and mostly agree(I think vaults, and pretty much all mobility skills dashing strike, furious charge, teleport should grant invulnerability) but I hate it astecically on large enemies.
Hit detection in this game is GARBAGE. Worse than its predecessor. This is either by blizzards 'design intent' or by their pure laziness and thus just called it design intent. Regardless, the game does not promote skilled play as much as a should, and rather promotes a skill choice (see smoke screen, teleport, diamond skin, warcry etc) + gear check.
Depending on what class you are, the gear check is either high or low, regardless, it is what is. Half the skills aren't even viable in inferno unless you overgear the living shit out of the content you're doing. So you either accept this, or you dont.
If you don't, as a fan of Diablo, yes you're more than welcome to voice your opinion about it, and to do so here, because this is DIABLOFANS, not DIABLO3FANS. There are plenty of alternatives to Diablo 3 that actually provide skill systems to let you play however you want, and that promote skill play, and not gear play. GO PLAY THOSE GAMES. If you feel this is diablocraft and a bastardization to the series, GO PLAY THOSE GAMES. If you feel that this game is just a cashcow with the RMAH, GO PLAY THOSE GAMES.
No one is stopping you from playing other games that do better than what blizzard has done in certain categories.
So if you dont like broken laggy hit detection, which makes dodging near impossible, here you go.
www.pathofexile.com
I play all dungeon grinders, including diablo 3. Yes diablo 3 has pathetic hit detection, if it pisses you off that much, go play PoE, or Grimdawn, or wait for Dungeonlands, or go play TQ, or better yet, play D2 and D1 etc.
Tahtah
for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
That's the problem.
Further blizzard has been torn apart time and time again on their own forums, these forums, reddit, about this very issue. Apparently you didnt know BLIZZARD COMES HERE TO READ...
for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."