Which would you prefer? I posted the following on the front page thread, but I find that those posts tend not to get much discussion.
What I don't understand is why INFERNO is dropping ilvl 51-59 items. I'd rather have LESS items drop off of champions that are of greater ilvl. For the sake of legendaries with ilvl 58-59, bump them up to ilvl 60 so they are viable in endgame (or have some sort of special code that allows lower level legendaries to still drop - I don't know programming, maybe this isn't possible).
A1 - mostly ilvl 60 items with incremental chance for ilvl 61, 62, 63 A2 - mostly ilvl 60, 61 items with incremental chance for ilvl 62, 63 A3/4 - mostly ilvl 60, 61, 62 items with incremental chance for ilvl 63
Incremental chance being the 2/4/8% that blizzard has recently implemented.
THAT is how I envision inferno drops should be... or something close at least. None of this sub-60 garbage
Add your 2c. I'm really interested to see what people think - would this cause unintended consequences that might ruin the economy? How might this change influence the game for the better or worse?
Edit: Here is another option, still including ilvl 55-59 items
Been thinking this exact thing. Really wouldn't care if rares became much rarer as long as they were always level 60+.
Exactly. I think this is a concern that we should share with Blizzard after seeing some more votes. At the very least, I would like to see an answer regarding why it is the way it is. If there is such a reasoning my guess is that it has something to do with the economy, but being the end-game content, I truly dislike finding ilvl 51-59 items as the majority of the items I find.
To me, the game has a clear leveling if you just follow the quest line. Doing all extra dungeons or not makes little difference.
With 2 toons at 60 and 3 at 30-35, I would say that:
1-30: Normal
31-50: Nightmare
51-60: Hell
I achieved that with no effort, just realizing with the second 60 that 50 was a requirement for Hell.
Now, based on that, I would say that it made sense if each difficulty and act would base the iLvls accordingly, not the -5 or -10 actually in place, were we just find something we should have used 5 or 10 levels before.
With that same idea, it makes sense to me that Inferno should only drop 60+ iLvls.
As someone already posted, if I wanted iLvl 51-60 (yes, 60 could be in both hell and Inferno), I could simply farm Hell.
Today I find myself just throwing 19 of 20 yellows out simply because they suck, and they suck because their stats suck, and their stats suck because the iLvl they have is too low to have good stats.
The only exception I see on this is rings and amulets, which even at low lvls can have good stats. Problem is, I bet that if they were 60+, they would have been even better.
Yet, with the loot system being as it is, with legendaries being just a laughable part of the game, unless Blizzard comes back to the drawing board and changes things so a Legendary iLvl 59 could be better than a Rare iLvl 63, which we had plenty in D2, I don't see the point of giving anything lower than iLvl 60+ in Inferno.
Been thinking this exact thing. Really wouldn't care if rares became much rarer as long as they were always level 60+.
Exactly. I think this is a concern that we should share with Blizzard after seeing some more votes. At the very least, I would like to see an answer regarding why it is the way it is. If there is such a reasoning my guess is that it has something to do with the economy, but being the end-game content, I truly dislike finding ilvl 51-59 items as the majority of the items I find.
You won't have one bud. The way it is it forces you to go to the AH. The Gold AH only exists because otherwise they could probably be sued. But it is clear the game was designed to use the RMAH.
There needs to be more options, if you ask me. Personally I would like them to cut out, say, the bottom five ilevels (so only 55-63 drops), and increase the drop rates of all the remaining ilevels to compensate.
If you just have 60-63 then you're gonna have a lot of high-dollar items flooding in, effectively lowering all the values of these items. Keeping some junk items in there, but lowering the amount of junk items, allows the really good stuff to still keep some value. Though, no matter how you do it, if you increase the drop rate of good items the value is going to drop.
I'm sure Blizzard will come up with a more elegant solution. They always seem to bring something out of nowhere that's better than anything I come up with.
There needs to be more options, if you ask me. Personally I would like them to cut out, say, the bottom five ilevels (so only 55-63 drops), and increase the drop rates of all the remaining ilevels to compensate.
If you just have 60-63 then you're gonna have a lot of high-dollar items flooding in, effectively lowering all the values of these items. Keeping some junk items in there, but lowering the amount of junk items, allows the really good stuff to still keep some value. Though, no matter how you do it, if you increase the drop rate of good items the value is going to drop.
I'm sure Blizzard will come up with a more elegant solution. They always seem to bring something out of nowhere that's better than anything I come up with.
Great post, aldrek. I definitely see your point and think it might be more in-line with a possible solution.
Inferno should only drop 60+ gear. It doesn't really make sense when I kill elite mobs and get rare level 51 stuff with such low stats, especially if they are really hard to kill. I think that it is fine if they drop a little less items if all items become 60+, because with 5 NV you are guaranteed one rare, of which would be always 60+.
There needs to be more options, if you ask me. Personally I would like them to cut out, say, the bottom five ilevels (so only 55-63 drops), and increase the drop rates of all the remaining ilevels to compensate.
If you just have 60-63 then you're gonna have a lot of high-dollar items flooding in, effectively lowering all the values of these items. Keeping some junk items in there, but lowering the amount of junk items, allows the really good stuff to still keep some value. Though, no matter how you do it, if you increase the drop rate of good items the value is going to drop.
I'm sure Blizzard will come up with a more elegant solution. They always seem to bring something out of nowhere that's better than anything I come up with.
Great post, aldrek. I definitely see your point and think it might be more in-line with a possible solution.
Maybe have:
Inferno - Act I
iLvl 55-59: 36.2%
ilvl 60: 36.2%
iLvl 61: 17.7%
iLvl 62: 7.9%
iLvl 63: 2.0%
Inferno - Act II
iLvl 55-59: 25.96%
iLvl 60: 38.94%
iLvl 61: 18.6%
iLvl 62: 12.4%
iLvl 63: 4.1%
Inferno - Act III and Act IV
iLvl 55-59: 15.54%
iLvl 60: 36.26%
iLvl 61: 24.1%
iLvl 62: 16.1%
iLvl 63: 8.0%
Yeah, kind of like that. Though without knowing the current rates of <61 items I can't really compare.
Though people are saying that 61-63 items are dropping less now in Act III/IV than they did last patch, so maybe increase the rates to what they were before in Act III/IV? They'd have to do something about the rates in Acts I and II so that they don't become totally inferior to Act III/IV if they're kept the same, and also so they don't become superior to Act III/IV if they buff them.
You should always be farming what you can farm the most efficiently. Not what you're forced to farm because it's 10 times better than anything else.
Yeah, kind of like that. Though without knowing the current rates of <61 items I can't really compare.
Though people are saying that 61-63 items are dropping less now in Act III/IV than they did last patch, so maybe increase the rates to what they were before in Act III/IV? They'd have to do something about the rates in Acts I and II so that they don't become totally inferior to Act III/IV if they're kept the same, and also so they don't become superior to Act III/IV if they buff them.
You should always be farming what you can farm the most efficiently. Not what you're forced to farm because it's 10 times better than anything else.
Yea, I'm not sure how they have it currently. The way I set it up in that post is 50/50 60/40 70/30 chance to drop 60 and 55-59 items, respectively, in a1,2,3/4
i dislike the lootz in this game so much to a point that i dont feel like login anymore, whats the point of farming it when you get nothing useful out of it other than vendor trash
I hate to break it to some of you, but if inferno only dropped 60+ items, everything would be worthless. Even if most of the stuff was still crap, you'd have so many more chances at good loot that loot would be devalued. Furthermore, we'd all quit the game because we'd all have amazing loot and nobody to sell it to.
Whether or not you want it, they will not drastically change the current loot system in inferno. Asking for such is proof that you don't really understand loot balance.
I like when tons of items drop, because Diablo is all about sorting through your inventory and being able to identify the diamonds in the rough.
But what's NOT fun is when tons of useless items drop. And what I mean by that is items that I already know are junk without even looking at them. This includes:
-Whites
-Greys
-Blues that aren't rings, amulets, or weapons
-Gems
I hate to break it to some of you, but if inferno only dropped 60+ items, everything would be worthless. Even if most of the stuff was still crap, you'd have so many more chances at good loot that loot would be devalued. Furthermore, we'd all quit the game because we'd all have amazing loot and nobody to sell it to.
Right.. 'cause we aren't playing Diablo, we're playing an elaborate gambling machine. That's the concern, isn't it? To protect the economy.
No thanks, not fun, not what I bought the game for. If in six months from now everyone who bothers playing has the best gear in the game (without farming 5 hours a day), and new players can buy it cheaply, it's just the way it's always been, especially in D2.
Who cares about your precious economy? The loot diversity should be so that every once and a while you'd come across a slight upgrade which polishes up already great stats, not a frantic search for pain relief. It sucks, and if you don't see it you're either already geared up (thank's to the brilliance of the launch issues, or blind luck in drops you sold), or you purposefully like this thing.
It's been 20 days now since I dropped something I could use, all I can do is figure out if something can be useful to another class, and try to sell it to pay for what I know I need. I'm sorry, this game doesn't deserve to be called Diablo 3.
Diablo 2 loot isn't anything like this crap, you could easily feel powerful and capable in blue gear, from there it was one hell of a journey to reach godlike status, but it sure didn't make you feel inadequate or unprepared while doing it. D3 lets you crawl in its shit, and slaps your hand if you try and reach for help.
This, simply this.
All those "face it or leave it" folks might go play Monopoly, kind of suits their needs better.
I payed for a hack and slash game, not to learn economy.
There's a difference between farming and overturning rocks in an arid field where barely a seed will sprout.
They've definitely got the numbers wrong and should have consulted a programmer of slot machines on just how often you actually have to give your players a reward to keep them hooked. As it is the number is far too low.
You feel nothing killing rare and champion packs, no anticipation, no excitement, because your experience tells you that it's going to be ilvl54-60 rares almost always.
It's simply not logical to require ilvl61+ gear to kill things that will almost always drop things less powerful.
Don't try defending it as forcing people to search harder, it's just wasting peoples' time.
While the increase in repair cost hasn't affected me a huge amount it really has made trying a new difficulty level or act horribly unpleasant for people. It just makes people sit in the same place farming the same thing for longer, staring at the same ilvl59 garbage dropping while being told "you should just keep farming".
They love nerfing shit, negatively impacting everyone, because 1% of players run around with a bag full of MF gear undressing like twats or smashing funeral urns all day.
At any rate, this game missed the mark for me, when Diablo 2 hit it dead on where I spent years playing. The gameplay is fun, I love smashing things with huge weaponry, or exploding enemies into bloody mist, but the world feels empty, the story is transparent and contrived, you never feel like you went anywhere and you're expected to spend the bulk of your play time grinding monotonous content which is far less randomised than they claim.
I won't even begin with the amount of technical balls they dropped. I wonder what they actually 'polished' this game with, used toilet paper?
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"For the price of one bullet you can eat 4 hotcakes." - Vash the Stampede.
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What I don't understand is why INFERNO is dropping ilvl 51-59 items. I'd rather have LESS items drop off of champions that are of greater ilvl. For the sake of legendaries with ilvl 58-59, bump them up to ilvl 60 so they are viable in endgame (or have some sort of special code that allows lower level legendaries to still drop - I don't know programming, maybe this isn't possible).
A1 - mostly ilvl 60 items with incremental chance for ilvl 61, 62, 63
A2 - mostly ilvl 60, 61 items with incremental chance for ilvl 62, 63
A3/4 - mostly ilvl 60, 61, 62 items with incremental chance for ilvl 63
Incremental chance being the 2/4/8% that blizzard has recently implemented.
THAT is how I envision inferno drops should be... or something close at least. None of this sub-60 garbage
Add your 2c. I'm really interested to see what people think - would this cause unintended consequences that might ruin the economy? How might this change influence the game for the better or worse?
Edit: Here is another option, still including ilvl 55-59 items
Exactly. I think this is a concern that we should share with Blizzard after seeing some more votes. At the very least, I would like to see an answer regarding why it is the way it is. If there is such a reasoning my guess is that it has something to do with the economy, but being the end-game content, I truly dislike finding ilvl 51-59 items as the majority of the items I find.
With 2 toons at 60 and 3 at 30-35, I would say that:
1-30: Normal
31-50: Nightmare
51-60: Hell
I achieved that with no effort, just realizing with the second 60 that 50 was a requirement for Hell.
Now, based on that, I would say that it made sense if each difficulty and act would base the iLvls accordingly, not the -5 or -10 actually in place, were we just find something we should have used 5 or 10 levels before.
With that same idea, it makes sense to me that Inferno should only drop 60+ iLvls.
As someone already posted, if I wanted iLvl 51-60 (yes, 60 could be in both hell and Inferno), I could simply farm Hell.
Today I find myself just throwing 19 of 20 yellows out simply because they suck, and they suck because their stats suck, and their stats suck because the iLvl they have is too low to have good stats.
The only exception I see on this is rings and amulets, which even at low lvls can have good stats. Problem is, I bet that if they were 60+, they would have been even better.
Yet, with the loot system being as it is, with legendaries being just a laughable part of the game, unless Blizzard comes back to the drawing board and changes things so a Legendary iLvl 59 could be better than a Rare iLvl 63, which we had plenty in D2, I don't see the point of giving anything lower than iLvl 60+ in Inferno.
To progress, you MUST buy gear.
If you just have 60-63 then you're gonna have a lot of high-dollar items flooding in, effectively lowering all the values of these items. Keeping some junk items in there, but lowering the amount of junk items, allows the really good stuff to still keep some value. Though, no matter how you do it, if you increase the drop rate of good items the value is going to drop.
I'm sure Blizzard will come up with a more elegant solution. They always seem to bring something out of nowhere that's better than anything I come up with.
Great post, aldrek. I definitely see your point and think it might be more in-line with a possible solution.
Maybe have:
Though people are saying that 61-63 items are dropping less now in Act III/IV than they did last patch, so maybe increase the rates to what they were before in Act III/IV? They'd have to do something about the rates in Acts I and II so that they don't become totally inferior to Act III/IV if they're kept the same, and also so they don't become superior to Act III/IV if they buff them.
You should always be farming what you can farm the most efficiently. Not what you're forced to farm because it's 10 times better than anything else.
Yea, I'm not sure how they have it currently. The way I set it up in that post is 50/50 60/40 70/30 chance to drop 60 and 55-59 items, respectively, in a1,2,3/4
Whether or not you want it, they will not drastically change the current loot system in inferno. Asking for such is proof that you don't really understand loot balance.
But what's NOT fun is when tons of useless items drop. And what I mean by that is items that I already know are junk without even looking at them. This includes:
-Whites
-Greys
-Blues that aren't rings, amulets, or weapons
-Gems
All those "face it or leave it" folks might go play Monopoly, kind of suits their needs better.
I payed for a hack and slash game, not to learn economy.
This would be perfect.
ditto
They've definitely got the numbers wrong and should have consulted a programmer of slot machines on just how often you actually have to give your players a reward to keep them hooked. As it is the number is far too low.
You feel nothing killing rare and champion packs, no anticipation, no excitement, because your experience tells you that it's going to be ilvl54-60 rares almost always.
It's simply not logical to require ilvl61+ gear to kill things that will almost always drop things less powerful.
Don't try defending it as forcing people to search harder, it's just wasting peoples' time.
While the increase in repair cost hasn't affected me a huge amount it really has made trying a new difficulty level or act horribly unpleasant for people. It just makes people sit in the same place farming the same thing for longer, staring at the same ilvl59 garbage dropping while being told "you should just keep farming".
They love nerfing shit, negatively impacting everyone, because 1% of players run around with a bag full of MF gear undressing like twats or smashing funeral urns all day.
At any rate, this game missed the mark for me, when Diablo 2 hit it dead on where I spent years playing. The gameplay is fun, I love smashing things with huge weaponry, or exploding enemies into bloody mist, but the world feels empty, the story is transparent and contrived, you never feel like you went anywhere and you're expected to spend the bulk of your play time grinding monotonous content which is far less randomised than they claim.
I won't even begin with the amount of technical balls they dropped. I wonder what they actually 'polished' this game with, used toilet paper?