Games with no end game that took a single play through to beat weren't good games in the 90's.
Still aren't.
Subby is confusiong good engine with good game.
People with absolutely zero concept of context or genre were boring and stupid in the 90's.
Still are.
Poster is confusing ARPG with a different genre.
^^^ Yes.
And the quote is wrong in another way; almost every game created (in the 90's and today) has no concept of "end game" content. This is not an MMO. The reasonable dissenters among us are not asking for MMO style content patches, just something to do, small things to work toward.
I would argue that "end game" has always existed in some fashion, just not with that specific label affixed to it. It used to be called "replay value" and the core concept is essentially the same. Old school Pac-Man Arcade, no "end game", but you kept playing it over and over to get the high score. High Score in essence was your end game. It kept you playing and it kept you plopping down those quarters which in turn made the developers/publishers/etc money.
Obviously that model worked differently for console games (prior to the last gen at least) and end game as we know it today is directly tied to the subscription/pay-as-you-go/DLC model used in a lot of games now.
Am I the only one here, who thinks Diablo 3 is one of the worst games ever?
First off, I log on... Go kill, expect there to be fun when I play a game I paid $60 for. And somehow... just somehow I get bored and log of f right after. This is not the kind of experience I want from a Blizzard game. But it just somehow happens.
Diablo 2 has almost nothing similar to Diablo 3... Cool-down added..., Weapon Swapping removed, gems/runes removed, skill system that let you have choices on your build... removed, stat system customization removed , reduced magic-find, all gone from the players eyes. What is the game?
There is a reason why RPG's are fun, but this simply is just a loot game that calls itself an RPG.
and another bunch of whiner had been pissed off and now they are working on a whole new bunch of "powerful" legendaries.
It's not "whining" to say that something which is broken is, in fact, broken. The most rare items in the game are almost all garbage. Complete and utter garbage. Writing off everyone who has complaints as "whiners" is simply bone-headed. The vast majority of the playerbase agrees that the implementation of legendaries was just plain stupid. Blizzard cares about how the players view their game, why do you think it is unimportant?
I definitely disagree with the guy you quoted about the legendaries/sets. But he does have a generally-valid point about Blizzard's development cycle. My best and most obvious example was Naxxramas in Wrath of the Lich King. Many hardcore vanilla raiders touted it as the best raid instance Blizzard had made to that point and many non-hardcore raiders were upset that they weren't really able to experience it. So Blizzard, listening to the community, re-worked it slightly and put it back in Wrath of the Lich King.
Then, within weeks of WotLK being released people started bitching at Blizzard for being "lazy" and "reusing content." At some point I think there are some pretty severely retarded people in this community who ruin things for the rest of us who genuinely want things to be good/better/best, if you know what I mean. I wasn't amazingly impressed with Naxx in WotLK, but I wasn't going to bash the shit out of Blizzard for listening to the community. One thing the community has to learn is that not every one of our ideas is good and sometimes when Blizzard caves to us it results in the product becoming worse.
That said, I think Blizzard has plenty of actionable feedback for D3. The legendary/set stuff is obvious as is the skill/rune/passive balancing (which will almost certainly result in a ton of buffs to skills/runes that simply haven't worked out the as anticipated). More importantly, I think that stuff like the chance for a monster to have an affix that benefits the player in some manner is not something that could remotely break the game and the only downside will be people complaining about the random nature of it and how they haven't seen a positive affix in 100 monsters whereas their friend has seen 50,000,000 straight monsters with positive affixes. You know, the normal!
Games with no end game that took a single play through to beat weren't good games in the 90's.
Still aren't.
Subby is confusiong good engine with good game.
People with absolutely zero concept of context or genre were boring and stupid in the 90's.
Still are.
Poster is confusing ARPG with a different genre.
^^^ Yes.
And the quote is wrong in another way; almost every game created (in the 90's and today) has no concept of "end game" content. This is not an MMO. The reasonable dissenters among us are not asking for MMO style content patches, just something to do, small things to work toward.
My favorite part is the "endgame" in Final Fantasy - wut? You mean shit like collecting cards, or coins for prizes (FFVII), or random grinds. That's "endgame" which puts D3 to shame? It's the same fucking thing.
Even if we disagree often, at least you stay away from the tangential blather, BigEd, so props for that.
Am I the only one here, who thinks Diablo 3 is one of the worst games ever?
First off, I log on... Go kill, expect there to be fun when I play a game I paid $60 for. And somehow... just somehow I get bored and log of f right after. This is not the kind of experience I want from a Blizzard game. But it just somehow happens.
Diablo 2 has almost nothing similar to Diablo 3... Cool-down added..., Weapon Swapping removed, gems/runes removed, skill system that let you have choices on your build... removed, stat system customization removed , reduced magic-find, all gone from the players eyes. What is the game?
There is a reason why RPG's are fun, but this simply is just a loot game that calls itself an RPG.
This is not an RPG game; it's an ARPG which is a hack n slash game with some lore which attributes to the RPG factor
If you find weapon swapping removal a core function of dissatisfaction I’m not sure how you could be happy with anything ever… Gear swapping still exists it just a manual process with potential being changed to a button swap.
Gems still exist... a sad version though, runes are in the game they changed how they worked, as for D2 they weren’t added till an expansion. You seem to be one of those I tried D2 when it came out 10 years later kind of people.
You choose what skills you want... derp
The illusion of choice... max vit stacking, yup so much choice is gone (gems is the new version of this BTW).
MF is King is this game WTF are you on.
Seriously go have no idea what you’re talking about... if anything these topics have been discussed at least a year ago, where have you been?
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Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
Am I the only one here, who thinks Diablo 3 is one of the worst games ever?
First off, I log on... Go kill, expect there to be fun when I play a game I paid $60 for. And somehow... just somehow I get bored and log of f right after. This is not the kind of experience I want from a Blizzard game. But it just somehow happens.
Diablo 2 has almost nothing similar to Diablo 3... Cool-down added..., Weapon Swapping removed, gems/runes removed, skill system that let you have choices on your build... removed, stat system customization removed , reduced magic-find, all gone from the players eyes. What is the game?
There is a reason why RPG's are fun, but this simply is just a loot game that calls itself an RPG.
This is not an RPG game; it's an ARPG which is a hack n slash game with some lore which attributes to the RPG factor
If you find weapon swapping removal a core function of dissatisfaction I’m not sure how you could be happy with anything ever… Gear swapping still exists it just a manual process with potential being changed to a button swap.
Gems still exist... a sad version though, runes are in the game they changed how they worked, as for D2 they weren’t added till an expansion. You seem to be one of those I tried D2 when it came out 10 years later kind of people.
You choose what skills you want... derp
The illusion of choice... max vit stacking, yup so much choice is gone (gems is the new version of this BTW).
MF is King is this game WTF are you on.
Seriously go have no idea what you’re talking about... if anything these topics have been discussed at least a year ago, where have you been?
lolwut. What RPG elements are you able to manipulate in this game? Please let me know, what makes you unique from everyone else who plays. kthxbai
MF is king sure, but the RNG is ridiculous. (Twas my point)
Okay, this is DIABLO 3. They should learn from their past games. Not scrap everything and claim (oh it's new so it has a chance to add stuff). No. It's been 10 years, this should be better then Diablo 2 expansion's x 5.
ALSO: You are told what to do, instead of given options. (Like: Go find items for endgame)
lolwut. What RPG elements are you able to manipulate in this game? Please let me know, what makes you unique from everyone else who plays. kthxbai
MF is king sure, but the RNG is ridiculous. (Twas my point)
Okay, this is DIABLO 3. They should learn from their past games. Not scrap everything and claim (oh it's new so it has a chance to add stuff). No. It's been 10 years, this should be better then Diablo 2 expansion's x 5.
ALSO: You are told what to do, instead of given options. (Like: Go find items for endgame)
Stop defending this game, please.
Not much which is why I wonder why people keep labeling this a RPG series.
Agreed and itemization is a core issue and will hopefully be addressed by 1.0.4... But I'm not holding my breath
Well they are different developers, a different company, and have actually have worked on it in 4 years. You’re comparing a 6 year product compared to a 2 month product made by different people. Even car companies continually making new version of cars have defects and its made by the same damn people. What should be and what is will never meet expectations, we shouldn't have poor people in the world but we do. Blizzard has never put out polished product from release... ever except maybe WC2 but that's another debate.
Told what to do.. you mean quests? You were told what to do in D2 as well... if you can even label it that.
Please stop crying that you don't understand typical Blizzard product development, D2 was shit on release, this is no different. There are issues in the game but I addressed most of them on page 1 if you bothered to read the thread.
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Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
It's ok, but it has limited replayability and no long-term longevity. After Normal mode, there's little reason to continue other than the mindless pursuit of better loot. However, the loot system in D3 is similar to Torchlight; 98% of the loot you find is worthless.
Another mindless mistake is making elite mobs tougher than bosses, and giving them the best loot tables. I may be old school but I always thought the big boss at the end of the dungeon was supposed to carry the best stuff. I think I know why Blizzard did this, but at the same time, I believe they shot themselves in the foot. Who cares if people will farm bosses? That's what the game is about. We're supposed to work together and plow through a dungeon to the end, right? Well then why would they make us run around a graveyard, looking for goblins and a rare zombie or two? On top of that, why make the elite mobs the most annoying things in the game? It burns people out and takes the fun out of the game.
I know I left out the Auction House (which defeats the entire purpose of the game), but that's been beaten to death and I don't use it anyway.
It's ok, but it has limited replayability and no long-term longevity. After Normal mode, there's little reason to continue other than the mindless pursuit of better loot. However, the loot system in D3 is similar to Torchlight; 98% of the loot you find is worthless.
Another mindless mistake is making elite mobs tougher than bosses, and giving them the best loot tables. I may be old school but I always thought the big boss at the end of the dungeon was supposed to carry the best stuff. I think I know why Blizzard did this, but at the same time, I believe they shot themselves in the foot. Who cares if people will farm bosses? That's what the game is about. We're supposed to work together and plow through a dungeon to the end, right? Well then why would they make us run around a graveyard, looking for goblins and a rare zombie or two? On top of that, why make the elite mobs the most annoying things in the game? It burns people out and takes the fun out of the game.
I know I left out the Auction House (which defeats the entire purpose of the game), but that's been beaten to death and I don't use it anyway.
5000 Baal/Meph runs didn't make you burn out?
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Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
The game has flaws, yada yada. Only thing that amuses me is how people who DON'T enjoy the game, some even HATE the game, still lurk the forums 2.5 month after the release just to complaint how bad it is. Get a hobby?
[sarcasm]Yeah the game has flaws, and it is the only game in existence to ever have flaws so that is why it is obviously horrible and deserves to burn in hell![/sarcasm]
It is a trend in Blizzard lately. Their latest decisions have been dumbing down of their games. Like CATA, SCII, Diablo 3, introduction of battle.net 2.0. It's getting worse and worse. That's why I don't share your optimism that Diablo 3 will get super awesome because Diablo 2 and Starcract also had some problems back in 1990s/2000s. Blizzard had a lot of time to learn from those mistakes. It took them 6-7 years to complete Diablo 3, even half-assed, but complete nonetheless. So that shouldn't be an argument at all. Blizzard just doesn't give a shit anymore.
A trend lately?? Dumbing down and polishing up is half of what Blizzard does. WoW was a dumbed-down Everquest. Warcraft was a dumbed-down Herzog Zwei. Diablo, for God's sake, was a dumbed-down Hack... in fact, compared to its turn-based comtemporaries, Diablo was a breathtakingly shallow piece of brainless eyecandy... but it was infinitely more accessible. SC notwithstanding, Blizzard isn't in the business of making convoluted hardcore games designed to make their players feel special and awesome. Blizzard is, and has always been in the business of taking good ideas, then simplifying and broadening their appeal then selling 100 times more of them than anyone else.
I meant in relation to their previous games(ie: WC3, D2, SC, all WoWs up till Lich King). Also Battle.net took a hard turn for the worst with the new 2.0, eliminating social aspect, practicality etc. Diablo 2 had distribution of stats, choosing of skills in the skill tree, you had control, strategy over your character, you actually had to think it through. In Diablo 3, however, all of that is gone because apparently it was "too confusing" and "tedious", so now even your grandma can play, hurray! OR the addition of CD potions and health globes, making potions useless in D3. Same goes for scrolls etc. Look at PoE, their potion system is way better than D2 and D3, it's perfectly designed as an upgrade, nor dumbed down, nor removed.
Blizzard got lazy. It's evident in the entire game how lazy it feels, how senseless and shallow it is. It's just sad. What next? Are they gonna take out all characters but one because it is "too confusing" to make up your mind on which character to choose since they all have different skills? You can also see this misunderstanding of what a Diablo game should be in the dialogue, the lore, the overall plot of the game, the art direction, the atmosphere. It does not feel like a Diablo game. More like a game for an ADHD 12 year old child.
It is a trend in Blizzard lately. Their latest decisions have been dumbing down of their games. Like CATA, SCII, Diablo 3, introduction of battle.net 2.0. It's getting worse and worse. That's why I don't share your optimism that Diablo 3 will get super awesome because Diablo 2 and Starcract also had some problems back in 1990s/2000s. Blizzard had a lot of time to learn from those mistakes. It took them 6-7 years to complete Diablo 3, even half-assed, but complete nonetheless. So that shouldn't be an argument at all. Blizzard just doesn't give a shit anymore.
A trend lately?? Dumbing down and polishing up is half of what Blizzard does. WoW was a dumbed-down Everquest. Warcraft was a dumbed-down Herzog Zwei. Diablo, for God's sake, was a dumbed-down Hack... in fact, compared to its turn-based comtemporaries, Diablo was a breathtakingly shallow piece of brainless eyecandy... but it was infinitely more accessible. SC notwithstanding, Blizzard isn't in the business of making convoluted hardcore games designed to make their players feel special and awesome. Blizzard is, and has always been in the business of taking good ideas, then simplifying and broadening their appeal then selling 100 times more of them than anyone else.
I meant in relation to their previous games(ie: WC3, D2, SC, all WoWs up till Lich King). Also Battle.net took a hard turn for the worst with the new 2.0, eliminating social aspect, practicality etc. Diablo 2 had distribution of stats, choosing of skills in the skill tree, you had control, strategy over your character, you actually had to think it through. In Diablo 3, however, all of that is gone because apparently it was "too confusing" and "tedious", so now even your grandma can play, hurray! OR the addition of CD potions and health globes, making potions useless in D3. Same goes for scrolls etc. Look at PoE, their potion system is way better than D2 and D3, it's perfectly designed as an upgrade, nor dumbed down, nor removed.
Blizzard got lazy. It's evident in the entire game how lazy it feels, how senseless and shallow it is. It's just sad. What next? Are they gonna take out all characters but one because it is "too confusing" to make up your mind on which character to choose since they all have different skills? You can also see this misunderstanding of what a Diablo game should be in the dialogue, the lore, the overall plot of the game, the art direction, the atmosphere. It does not feel like a Diablo game. More like a game for an ADHD 12 year old child.
That's absolutely ridiculous.
D2 had stats, except that the only right way to spend your stat points 99% of the time was get enough str & dex to use the gear you wanted then dump the rest into vitality. There was no choosing, your choices were an outright illusion.
As for talent points those were again canned. Pick a few abilities you felt you wanted to max, pick a main damage spell and max it. It became even less of a choice when they introduced synergies because you basically picked a main damage spell, maxed it, then maxed any abilities with gave a synergy to it. That's not choice. That's not difficult.
D3 is dumbed down because it doesn't have scrolls? Really. That sounds like you're grasping for straws. What measure of complexity or difficulty did carrying 20 scrolls around in a tome add to the game that wasn't completely outweighed by the fact that between Identify and Town Portal tomes you wasted 4 slots in you inventory? What was so awesome about that mechanic?
As for D3 being a game that even grandma can play, my guess is that grandma would have a far easier time making a toon that can farm for gear in D2 than in D3. Did you know that D2 was actually so easy that they actually had to buff monsters at least once? Check out 1.10 patch notes. D2 took about the same mental power as that of a grasshopper to play, yet it was still a goddamned awesome game that tons of people played for an absurdly long time. Yet, somehow while having a huge hardon for what D2 was you're going to sit here with a straight face and attempt to tell me that games aren't good unless they're complex and difficult. Final Fantasy VII was not exactly that difficult, yet it remains one of my absolute favorite games ever. Super Mario 64 wasn't exactly complex, but I still replay that game with great joy. I seriously wonder how Nintendo ever made money based on your standards.
You clearly love Path of Exile. I hear Kripparian has a man-crush on the game too. Maybe you can go annoy them instead of trolling. You are here holding D3 to standards that you'd never hold any other game to, and you're entirely misinformed about the Diablo series. You make statements that no one in their right mind could agree with because it's simply a skewed view of reality.
But, hey, I hear that picking +10 to a stat or +6% attack speed in Path of Exile are the MOST EXCITING CHOICES EVER. Oh wait, the only exciting choices in their talent system are the 1-in-100 interesting choices that aren't some flat modifier to a stat or attack speed or damage with <weapon type>. Sounds absolutely exhilirating. Hypocrite.
D2 had stats, except that the only right way to spend your stat points 99% of the time was get enough str & dex to use the gear you wanted then dump the rest into vitality. There was no choosing, your choices were an outright illusion.
As for talent points those were again canned. Pick a few abilities you felt you wanted to max, pick a main damage spell and max it. It became even less of a choice when they introduced synergies because you basically picked a main damage spell, maxed it, then maxed any abilities with gave a synergy to it. That's not choice. That's not difficult.
D3 is dumbed down because it doesn't have scrolls? Really. That sounds like you're grasping for straws. What measure of complexity or difficulty did carrying 20 scrolls around in a tome add to the game that wasn't completely outweighed by the fact that between Identify and Town Portal tomes you wasted 4 slots in you inventory? What was so awesome about that mechanic?
As for D3 being a game that even grandma can play, my guess is that grandma would have a far easier time making a toon that can farm for gear in D2 than in D3. Did you know that D2 was actually so easy that they actually had to buff monsters at least once? Check out 1.10 patch notes. D2 took about the same mental power as that of a grasshopper to play, yet it was still a goddamned awesome game that tons of people played for an absurdly long time. Yet, somehow while having a huge hardon for what D2 was you're going to sit here with a straight face and attempt to tell me that games aren't good unless they're complex and difficult. Final Fantasy VII was not exactly that difficult, yet it remains one of my absolute favorite games ever. Super Mario 64 wasn't exactly complex, but I still replay that game with great joy. I seriously wonder how Nintendo ever made money based on your standards.
You clearly love Path of Exile. I hear Kripparian has a man-crush on the game too. Maybe you can go annoy them instead of trolling. You are here holding D3 to standards that you'd never hold any other game to, and you're entirely misinformed about the Diablo series. You make statements that no one in their right mind could agree with because it's simply a skewed view of reality.
But, hey, I hear that picking +10 to a stat or +6% attack speed in Path of Exile are the MOST EXCITING CHOICES EVER. Oh wait, the only exciting choices in their talent system are the 1-in-100 interesting choices that aren't some flat modifier to a stat or attack speed or damage with <weapon type>. Sounds absolutely exhilirating. Hypocrite.
The Diablo 2.5 thing nailed it, which was what I was trying to get at. People don't realize how bad Diablo 2 was when it initially came out. I don't know if anyone remembers, but you couldn't actually buy mana potions and health potions were limited. Also you couldn't gear your mercenary and Chaos Sanctuary was near impossible. Diablo 3 is a very good game for an initial release.
LOL yeah I remember the mana pot thing! It took them YEARS to change that! I remember blue posts saying "well we don't want you to be able to buy mana pots because then the ones you find wouldn't be valuable"...
Even after 12 years it's hardly "polished". Remember all those useless skills? Like Increased Stamina (http://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Increased_Stamina). Which you can put up to 20 points in! And until 1.13 (10 years after release!!!) you couldn't even respec a single point. It's amazing how many people have forgotten major issues like how every monster in Hell is immune to one element, and if it's the only element you can do damage with... too bad so sad! Man just imagine all those QQers on the main forum and how they'd react if D3 was exactly like D2. Their heads would explode!
Choosing which way you went in the skill tree and how effective you distributed the points in D2 was much more rewarding. You had control on what build to choose, even a hybrid build, there was so many choices. If it was so easy and granny-friendly, why in the hell did people create tutorials and instructions on how to get your favorite build? And it wasn't just skills. Many other in-game factors contributed to bettering your build, like the item variety: Runes, charms, torches, gems(that were actually rewarding and effective). The barter system allowed for a fun way to socialize and better your equipment, same goes to PVP. All those things intertwined into the great complexity that made D2 FUN, not an illusion.
You needed build guides to warn new players of all the skills that were a total waste of points (until they released synergies almost every skill was a waste! And that took them 3 years!). But you could build heaps of different builds because Hell difficulty was piss easy and you could beat it without any "grinding" at all. Everything is viable when nothing is difficult. Remember the pacifist? Beat the whole game without killing anything lol. People used to do runs to see how far they could get with no gear or skill points used.
Runes pretty much replaced gems, making them junk. Charms were horrible, you'd have to lose all your bag space to carry all this junk which each had a pitiful amount of stats on it but it added up so you had to carry them anyway. Runewords made items so strong that everything else you found was junk. Bartering social? LOL, about as much as you socialise with your local crack dealer. You join the game make the trade and leave, that's not social.
If you like D2 so much, guess what its servers are still up, go play it. Me I'm going to go back to enjoying all the things they made better in D3. It's not perfect but I can't think of a single thing I preferred about D2.
If you like D2 so much, guess what its servers are still up, go play it. Me I'm going to go back to enjoying all the things they made better in D3. It's not perfect but I can't think of a single thing I preferred about D2.
Well said.
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^^^ Yes.
And the quote is wrong in another way; almost every game created (in the 90's and today) has no concept of "end game" content. This is not an MMO. The reasonable dissenters among us are not asking for MMO style content patches, just something to do, small things to work toward.
Obviously that model worked differently for console games (prior to the last gen at least) and end game as we know it today is directly tied to the subscription/pay-as-you-go/DLC model used in a lot of games now.
At least that's how I see it.
First off, I log on... Go kill, expect there to be fun when I play a game I paid $60 for. And somehow... just somehow I get bored and log of f right after. This is not the kind of experience I want from a Blizzard game. But it just somehow happens.
Diablo 2 has almost nothing similar to Diablo 3... Cool-down added..., Weapon Swapping removed, gems/runes removed, skill system that let you have choices on your build... removed, stat system customization removed , reduced magic-find, all gone from the players eyes. What is the game?
There is a reason why RPG's are fun, but this simply is just a loot game that calls itself an RPG.
I definitely disagree with the guy you quoted about the legendaries/sets. But he does have a generally-valid point about Blizzard's development cycle. My best and most obvious example was Naxxramas in Wrath of the Lich King. Many hardcore vanilla raiders touted it as the best raid instance Blizzard had made to that point and many non-hardcore raiders were upset that they weren't really able to experience it. So Blizzard, listening to the community, re-worked it slightly and put it back in Wrath of the Lich King.
Then, within weeks of WotLK being released people started bitching at Blizzard for being "lazy" and "reusing content." At some point I think there are some pretty severely retarded people in this community who ruin things for the rest of us who genuinely want things to be good/better/best, if you know what I mean. I wasn't amazingly impressed with Naxx in WotLK, but I wasn't going to bash the shit out of Blizzard for listening to the community. One thing the community has to learn is that not every one of our ideas is good and sometimes when Blizzard caves to us it results in the product becoming worse.
That said, I think Blizzard has plenty of actionable feedback for D3. The legendary/set stuff is obvious as is the skill/rune/passive balancing (which will almost certainly result in a ton of buffs to skills/runes that simply haven't worked out the as anticipated). More importantly, I think that stuff like the chance for a monster to have an affix that benefits the player in some manner is not something that could remotely break the game and the only downside will be people complaining about the random nature of it and how they haven't seen a positive affix in 100 monsters whereas their friend has seen 50,000,000 straight monsters with positive affixes. You know, the normal!
My favorite part is the "endgame" in Final Fantasy - wut? You mean shit like collecting cards, or coins for prizes (FFVII), or random grinds. That's "endgame" which puts D3 to shame? It's the same fucking thing.
Even if we disagree often, at least you stay away from the tangential blather, BigEd, so props for that.
Battle.net Profile / Diablo Progress Profile
This is not an RPG game; it's an ARPG which is a hack n slash game with some lore which attributes to the RPG factor
If you find weapon swapping removal a core function of dissatisfaction I’m not sure how you could be happy with anything ever… Gear swapping still exists it just a manual process with potential being changed to a button swap.
Gems still exist... a sad version though, runes are in the game they changed how they worked, as for D2 they weren’t added till an expansion. You seem to be one of those I tried D2 when it came out 10 years later kind of people.
You choose what skills you want... derp
The illusion of choice... max vit stacking, yup so much choice is gone (gems is the new version of this BTW).
MF is King is this game WTF are you on.
Seriously go have no idea what you’re talking about... if anything these topics have been discussed at least a year ago, where have you been?
lolwut. What RPG elements are you able to manipulate in this game? Please let me know, what makes you unique from everyone else who plays. kthxbai
MF is king sure, but the RNG is ridiculous. (Twas my point)
Okay, this is DIABLO 3. They should learn from their past games. Not scrap everything and claim (oh it's new so it has a chance to add stuff). No. It's been 10 years, this should be better then Diablo 2 expansion's x 5.
ALSO: You are told what to do, instead of given options. (Like: Go find items for endgame)
Stop defending this game, please.
Not much which is why I wonder why people keep labeling this a RPG series.
Agreed and itemization is a core issue and will hopefully be addressed by 1.0.4... But I'm not holding my breath
Well they are different developers, a different company, and have actually have worked on it in 4 years. You’re comparing a 6 year product compared to a 2 month product made by different people. Even car companies continually making new version of cars have defects and its made by the same damn people. What should be and what is will never meet expectations, we shouldn't have poor people in the world but we do. Blizzard has never put out polished product from release... ever except maybe WC2 but that's another debate.
Told what to do.. you mean quests? You were told what to do in D2 as well... if you can even label it that.
Please stop crying that you don't understand typical Blizzard product development, D2 was shit on release, this is no different. There are issues in the game but I addressed most of them on page 1 if you bothered to read the thread.
Another mindless mistake is making elite mobs tougher than bosses, and giving them the best loot tables. I may be old school but I always thought the big boss at the end of the dungeon was supposed to carry the best stuff. I think I know why Blizzard did this, but at the same time, I believe they shot themselves in the foot. Who cares if people will farm bosses? That's what the game is about. We're supposed to work together and plow through a dungeon to the end, right? Well then why would they make us run around a graveyard, looking for goblins and a rare zombie or two? On top of that, why make the elite mobs the most annoying things in the game? It burns people out and takes the fun out of the game.
I know I left out the Auction House (which defeats the entire purpose of the game), but that's been beaten to death and I don't use it anyway.
5000 Baal/Meph runs didn't make you burn out?
[sarcasm]Yeah the game has flaws, and it is the only game in existence to ever have flaws so that is why it is obviously horrible and deserves to burn in hell![/sarcasm]
lol
I meant in relation to their previous games(ie: WC3, D2, SC, all WoWs up till Lich King). Also Battle.net took a hard turn for the worst with the new 2.0, eliminating social aspect, practicality etc. Diablo 2 had distribution of stats, choosing of skills in the skill tree, you had control, strategy over your character, you actually had to think it through. In Diablo 3, however, all of that is gone because apparently it was "too confusing" and "tedious", so now even your grandma can play, hurray! OR the addition of CD potions and health globes, making potions useless in D3. Same goes for scrolls etc. Look at PoE, their potion system is way better than D2 and D3, it's perfectly designed as an upgrade, nor dumbed down, nor removed.
Blizzard got lazy. It's evident in the entire game how lazy it feels, how senseless and shallow it is. It's just sad. What next? Are they gonna take out all characters but one because it is "too confusing" to make up your mind on which character to choose since they all have different skills? You can also see this misunderstanding of what a Diablo game should be in the dialogue, the lore, the overall plot of the game, the art direction, the atmosphere. It does not feel like a Diablo game. More like a game for an ADHD 12 year old child.
That's absolutely ridiculous.
D2 had stats, except that the only right way to spend your stat points 99% of the time was get enough str & dex to use the gear you wanted then dump the rest into vitality. There was no choosing, your choices were an outright illusion.
As for talent points those were again canned. Pick a few abilities you felt you wanted to max, pick a main damage spell and max it. It became even less of a choice when they introduced synergies because you basically picked a main damage spell, maxed it, then maxed any abilities with gave a synergy to it. That's not choice. That's not difficult.
D3 is dumbed down because it doesn't have scrolls? Really. That sounds like you're grasping for straws. What measure of complexity or difficulty did carrying 20 scrolls around in a tome add to the game that wasn't completely outweighed by the fact that between Identify and Town Portal tomes you wasted 4 slots in you inventory? What was so awesome about that mechanic?
As for D3 being a game that even grandma can play, my guess is that grandma would have a far easier time making a toon that can farm for gear in D2 than in D3. Did you know that D2 was actually so easy that they actually had to buff monsters at least once? Check out 1.10 patch notes. D2 took about the same mental power as that of a grasshopper to play, yet it was still a goddamned awesome game that tons of people played for an absurdly long time. Yet, somehow while having a huge hardon for what D2 was you're going to sit here with a straight face and attempt to tell me that games aren't good unless they're complex and difficult. Final Fantasy VII was not exactly that difficult, yet it remains one of my absolute favorite games ever. Super Mario 64 wasn't exactly complex, but I still replay that game with great joy. I seriously wonder how Nintendo ever made money based on your standards.
You clearly love Path of Exile. I hear Kripparian has a man-crush on the game too. Maybe you can go annoy them instead of trolling. You are here holding D3 to standards that you'd never hold any other game to, and you're entirely misinformed about the Diablo series. You make statements that no one in their right mind could agree with because it's simply a skewed view of reality.
But, hey, I hear that picking +10 to a stat or +6% attack speed in Path of Exile are the MOST EXCITING CHOICES EVER. Oh wait, the only exciting choices in their talent system are the 1-in-100 interesting choices that aren't some flat modifier to a stat or attack speed or damage with <weapon type>. Sounds absolutely exhilirating. Hypocrite.
LOL yeah I remember the mana pot thing! It took them YEARS to change that! I remember blue posts saying "well we don't want you to be able to buy mana pots because then the ones you find wouldn't be valuable"...
Even after 12 years it's hardly "polished". Remember all those useless skills? Like Increased Stamina (http://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Increased_Stamina). Which you can put up to 20 points in! And until 1.13 (10 years after release!!!) you couldn't even respec a single point. It's amazing how many people have forgotten major issues like how every monster in Hell is immune to one element, and if it's the only element you can do damage with... too bad so sad! Man just imagine all those QQers on the main forum and how they'd react if D3 was exactly like D2. Their heads would explode!
You've never heard of statistics or probability, have you?
You needed build guides to warn new players of all the skills that were a total waste of points (until they released synergies almost every skill was a waste! And that took them 3 years!). But you could build heaps of different builds because Hell difficulty was piss easy and you could beat it without any "grinding" at all. Everything is viable when nothing is difficult. Remember the pacifist? Beat the whole game without killing anything lol. People used to do runs to see how far they could get with no gear or skill points used.
Runes pretty much replaced gems, making them junk. Charms were horrible, you'd have to lose all your bag space to carry all this junk which each had a pitiful amount of stats on it but it added up so you had to carry them anyway. Runewords made items so strong that everything else you found was junk. Bartering social? LOL, about as much as you socialise with your local crack dealer. You join the game make the trade and leave, that's not social.
If you like D2 so much, guess what its servers are still up, go play it. Me I'm going to go back to enjoying all the things they made better in D3. It's not perfect but I can't think of a single thing I preferred about D2.
Well said.