Only way to simplify loot and make people play this game is to add BOP items in game (Bind on Pickup).
- How ?-
- All BoP items that drop would be for your class, which means every BOP item that drops has to be for the class that has looted the item.
- BoP Items wouldn't be so common when it comes to drop rate but they would guaranty you an upgrade for yourself or close to that.
- How would this help ? -
Diablo 3 is loot based game. With it's current state as it is now and current failure that like it or not we have to agree on, something needs to be done until we get some new content, PvP and such.
I m a Hard Core player. I used to play countless hours clearing Act 3 and when I say clearing I mean killing every elite pack in 5 - 15 seconds. Since patch 1.0.4 but it was pretty much the same in 1.0.3. loot is really horrible.
I m not one of those people who like to complain, that's the fact covered by an argument that I have played over 800 hours and beaten inferno like 2 weeks after game release, the best of all, with WD, half-broken class back than.
So once again, BoP items would guaranteed for your class.
Give me your thoughts about it, really would like to hear your opinion.
my thoughts: 90% of ideads from the forum are better than what is in game now, but blizzards do not give a fuck about uhappy minority, that acts like this game is a mmo
That's an interesting idea for those who see the AH and trading in general as not very rewarding features.
I think it wouldn't affect the rest of the playerbase much, so that's a plus. Although maybe we would have an even higher difficulty in selling items on the AH (and some people were already complaining a couple weeks ago that it was nearly impossible selling items), since most people would definitely prefer farming those BoP items than checking the AH for upgrades.
I think it would be very hard to balance this for the top-notch players (who play a lot more than others). You know? Those who like to flex their e-peen around and say how easy the game is and how badass they are
It would also be a very programming intensive solution (balancing drop rates, tweaking the AH, setting measures to prevent duping/abuses) and I doubt Blizzard would focus so much effort in that. Maybe in the future.
Definitely a good idea, would just need a bit of brainstorming and testing before being actually implemented
Hmm. Like Zero(pS) said, the idea needs more fleshing out. The problem with BoP is that the serious farmers would not nearly sink as much of their gold into the Auction House but the non-BoP items they picked up would end flooding the AH even more.
my thoughts: 90% of ideads from the forum are better than what is in game now, but blizzards do not give a fuck about uhappy minority, that acts like this game is a mmo
Posting on a fansite instead of the main website and expecting to get seen by the higher ups? lol
What is items for just your class? How do you define it? Part of diablo 3 is that almost every piece of gear can be used by any class. What if a SICK weapon drops, it rolls 200 str, and 190 int, however, you are a wizard, so it doesn't BoP , and you can sell it .
I don't think loot is a problem in Diablo 3. Diablo 2 had a very similar loot system and it was fine. Why do you want more loot anyway? To improve the killing speed slightly? Or for the future pvp?
People left Diablo 3 because it was extremely repetative and had a level cap. The level cap is gone, now the paragon levels give people something to strive for apart from loot. The repetition is still there though. Diablo 2 had randomly generated areas, which were also much larger than the areas in Diablo 3. Doing the exact same places of Act 3 over and over gets old very quickly.
The thing I think would restore the glory to Diablo 3 is a randomly generated, endless dungeon mode.
It's still a cap, just because it's harder to get to doesn't it's gone. D2 leveling was boring after a certain point, You out leveled EVERYTHING, diablo 3 has a much better system.
The first change I would like to see in-game would be some sort of account bound items, that would become bound to you the moment you equip them on one of your characters. I understand that such changes would not be very Diabloish, but the whole system as it is now begs for loot that cannot be sold and recycled on the AH.
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"Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the small death that brings total obliteration."
the biggest problem about the loot system is not the quality of the items 4-6 affixes, nor the rate of ilvl 63s we get. bu the fact that the stat brackets is weighted, to much to the lower side of the stat range. so if items over 6 has some of the minimum rolls removed.
example now a ilvl 63 weapon can roll 1-350 main stat. it would probably be better if they would start around half that value instead. so that it would be 150-350 instead,
pickup radius for example, an item with ilvl 61-63 can only roll 6-7 yards.
this would not solve, the over saturated AH, but it will help you get a steady flow of decent to good items.
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EU Season Achievement Ladder: Season 1 : #773, 7150/7880 | S2 : #742, 5970/8280 | S3 : #1000+, 810/980 | S4 #? 0/? |
I never said everything should be BoP. What I said was this.
- Since you never get an upgrade for your own class anyway (almost never) and I played over 800 hours and 99% of my items are from AH (just as 99% other people), adding only few BoP items would solve this thing.
- How ?
Well if you would get a BoP item drop, it would mean that items is for your class and it's a possible upgrade for you. That means that if you get a set BoP item, it will have stats for your class and set bonuses for it. So for example if I get Zunimassa set part for my WD, it would mean that stats rolled on it would be awesome for me.
95% of the items would remain normal, I m just thinking about this to make the players more happy with loot they get, other then getting something ubber cool, then selling then buying the item for that amount for your class.
You know, eventually people will get sick of constant selling/buying just as I did. I want to kill 500 elite champions and get something I can right click in my inventory (equip).
Just my thoughts tho.
Also reason I m not saying this on official forums is because it would never be implemented even if everyone agrees on that. Blizzard can't profit on it = so NO. I just want to hear your thoughts about it, that's all.
I personally wouldn't care for this idea. One of the best things about diablo is the lack of BoP items and the fact that everything (loot wise) is in fact random. I played WoW since release and I always hated the fact that RNG ruled everything but it wasn't truly random. It was more like: I have this item I want, it drops from this boss, but I can only kill that boss once (per day, week, or so on). The best thing about the randomness in Diablo is the fact that if you get lucky and get that drop it could come from a boss an elite pack or even just a regular mob, and because it isn't BoP you could get a great item for one of your other characters or even a friend and just pass it that way.
I can understand your frustration with the loot system, I haven't found a single item that I could sell for more than 500k yet, but I know that it is because the loot is random and someday I may get it or I can get enough money to buy one off the AH.
Scaled Wurm
P.S. If this is at all hard to read sorry but its too early in the morning for me =)
Diablo has NEVER had BoP items because the game has always been about acquiring items and bartering. Leave "well enough" alone please.
Diablo does not need BoP items, it does not need Valor Points, it does not need guaranteed drops after X kills, it does not need daily quests, it does not need raid instances.
BoP and guaranteed "good" drops just aren't the Diablo train of thought. No matter what you call it how you try to justify it.
What it all comes down to is that some people aren't happy with drop rates of what they deem as "usable/good" gear.
If you want to find upgrades frequently and feel a sense more of a sense of accomplishment for the time you put in, try starting a character and not touching the AH at all. Things you normally would have vendored instantly become more valuable because what you see is all you're going to get.
If you want to utilize the AH, remember what you think is valuable or a piece of trash may not be what someone else thinks. I found a 60 ring the other day that had what I thought were really low stats and threw it in the AH with an opening bid of 10k and no BIN...auction ended yesterday with the ring selling for a little over 3 mil. I've also had the reverse happen quite a bit where I post something I think is awesome and it goes unsold for 2+ posts.
IMO drop rates are where they need to be...just need the AH to do a little balancing out now that 1.04 has hit so the new items come down a to being a little more reasonable.
Finally...800 hours? You know the game has only been out for 111 days, right? That's an average of 7.2 hours a day...
What exactly is wrong with Diablos' loot system? I don't see it.
What's wrong is that people aren't getting the items they want to get (aka the perfectly rolled stuff).
And that's usually because they used the AH and got pretty good items for 100k-1mil
I kinda understand their feeling, I trully do. Not in the sense that I want godly items. But I kinda wanted to be able to find my own "late game" set, or my own Legendary. And D2 had that, you knew where to go, you knew the average number of runs needed to get it. D3 doesn't have that, it feels like you're not chasing anything. It feels like we're just wandering around sometimes.
Only way to simplify loot and make people play this game is to add BOP items in game (Bind on Pickup).
This is the thing that might make me quit - BoP is in my opinion one of the worst concepts in game.
A simple (but far from perfect) solution would be 'Customize' system like in GuildWars where if you customized item it would be binded on your character and add some bonus to it (+15%dmg,...).
I kinda understand their feeling, I trully do. Not in the sense that I want godly items. But I kinda wanted to be able to find my own "late game" set, or my own Legendary. And D2 had that, you knew where to go, you knew the average number of runs needed to get it. D3 doesn't have that, it feels like you're not chasing anything. It feels like we're just wandering around sometimes.
Exactly. The end game grind does not feel like a Diablo farm should, it is almost not rewarding at all, and it is purely based on the sustainability of the AH.
As long as I am not able to at least find a few low level set items while leveling characters (and in 300 hours I still haven't seen one on any difficulty on any of my characters) I will not take seriously anyone claiming the system works fine. When it is actually broken, and nowhere near the spirit of the Diablo series. And this comes from the guy who has been defending the game since day one. Things need to be fixed, so the game could survive. And loot should be number one priority on the list. Because that's what this game is all about.
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"Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the small death that brings total obliteration."
I kinda understand their feeling, I trully do. Not in the sense that I want godly items. But I kinda wanted to be able to find my own "late game" set, or my own Legendary. And D2 had that, you knew where to go, you knew the average number of runs needed to get it. D3 doesn't have that, it feels like you're not chasing anything. It feels like we're just wandering around sometimes.
Exactly. The end game grind does not feel like a Diablo farm should, it is almost not rewarding at all, and it is purely based on the sustainability of the AH.
As long as I am not able to at least find a few low level set items while leveling characters (and in 300 hours I still haven't seen one on any difficulty on any of my characters) I will not take seriously anyone claiming the system works fine. When it is actually broken, and nowhere near the spirit of the Diablo series. And this comes from the guy who has been defending the game since day one. Things need to be fixed, so the game could survive. And loot should be number one priority on the list. Because that's what this game is all about.
Really?
Really?
I can't take anyone seriously who is trying to make the argument that the game is purposefully and willfully broken by its creators for the "sustainability of the AH."
You know how they create sustainability of the AH? They give you a good product. You enjoy the product and use the AH. The idea that they've somehow submarined their own game to make the AH the focal point is so goddamned ridiculous that I'm shocked you can't see how inside-out your logic is.
You're actually suggesting that Blizzard is purposefully trying to reduce its clientelle in order to get better profits from a system that relies on lots of people listing items. Can you not see how asinine that is?
I got a bit lucky in 1.0.4, I got some WD boots to drop and a cool mojo as well.
I also got: barb belt, monk pants, and DH chest x2. You know what? I sold these on the AH and then bought myself some really nice WD pieces (helm, chest and ring). I currently get happy when a set/legendary drops even if it isn't for my character because I know in the long run (a few days) it will be a nice shiny new piece of gear for my toon.
I can't take anyone seriously who is trying to make the argument that the game is purposefully and willfully broken by its creators for the "sustainability of the AH."
You know how they create sustainability of the AH? They give you a good product. You enjoy the product and use the AH. The idea that they've somehow submarined their own game to make the AH the focal point is so goddamned ridiculous that I'm shocked you can't see how inside-out your logic is.
You're actually suggesting that Blizzard is purposefully trying to reduce its clientelle in order to get better profits from a system that relies on lots of people listing items. Can you not see how asinine that is?
So you're telling me that this loot system was not made to make the AH more viable and popular? That they did not lower the drop chances of set items and legendaries to nearly zero, made affixes almost completely random, made bosses mean nothing, with no regards to the AH? Really?
I understand that the auction is now an integral part of the game, but it simply plays too much of a part. It is not rewarding to grind gold just to buy good items for your character, and that is what is happening now pretty much all of the time. Diablo is about farming items, and feeling the rush when you finally get a great one from time to time. Or at least it used to be about it. That is satisfying, and to me, personally, this system is not nearly as much.
There are some people out there playing without the AH, yes, and hardcore was always much more fun because of the weak auction house, but the vast majority of the player base is just buying all of the items from the end of normal mode to the end game itself.
I never said Blizzard was trying to hurt the game on purpose or whatever, but it is painfully obvious they had AH in mind, and very much so, when they were working on the loot and the drop rates. And that the time you have to spend playing in order to get a good drop for your character is just too high for an ARPG game, because of the ultra randomness of everything.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the small death that brings total obliteration."
I don't think loot is a problem in Diablo 3. Diablo 2 had a very similar loot system and it was fine. Why do you want more loot anyway? To improve the killing speed slightly? Or for the future pvp?
People left Diablo 3 because it was extremely repetative and had a level cap. The level cap is gone, now the paragon levels give people something to strive for apart from loot. The repetition is still there though. Diablo 2 had randomly generated areas, which were also much larger than the areas in Diablo 3. Doing the exact same places of Act 3 over and over gets old very quickly.
The thing I think would restore the glory to Diablo 3 is a randomly generated, endless dungeon mode.
Have you played diablo 2? The loot system may be similar in terms of legendary, rares, blues but that is it... When you were getting a occulus in d2 you KNEW what you were getting. You werent going to get str or dex or life on hit or 900 other random stats. Nothing is worth then shelling out or getting the mats for that awesome blackbones arrows to have it roll str+int... awesome. The only class that can use it and now its useless. This is the same for every fist, bow, or class based armor or weapon in the game. This right here makes most legendaries utterly useless 90% of the time.
Another thing that is dumb with items is you need 5-6 stats to really really make it solid to godly. There is no resistance cap like in d2 (which there should be!) so everyone needs them(unless your a glass cannon and think getting one shotted is fun).
I still love the game though even though 99% of what I find is useless.
I can't take anyone seriously who is trying to make the argument that the game is purposefully and willfully broken by its creators for the "sustainability of the AH."
You know how they create sustainability of the AH? They give you a good product. You enjoy the product and use the AH. The idea that they've somehow submarined their own game to make the AH the focal point is so goddamned ridiculous that I'm shocked you can't see how inside-out your logic is.
You're actually suggesting that Blizzard is purposefully trying to reduce its clientelle in order to get better profits from a system that relies on lots of people listing items. Can you not see how asinine that is?
So you're telling me that this loot system was not made to make the AH more viable and popular? That they did not lower the drop chances of set items and legendaries to nearly zero, made affixes almost completely random, made bosses mean nothing, with no regards to the AH? Really?
I understand that the auction is now an integral part of the game, but it simply plays too much of a part. It is not rewarding to grind gold just to buy good items for your character, and that is what is happening now pretty much all of the time. Diablo is about farming items, and feeling the rush when you finally get a great one from time to time. Or at least it used to be about it. That is satisfying, and to me, personally, this system is not nearly as much.
There are some people out there playing without the AH, yes, and hardcore was always much more fun because of the weak auction house, but the vast majority of the player base is just buying all of the items from the end of normal mode to the end game itself.
I never said Blizzard was trying to hurt the game on purpose or whatever, but it is painfully obvious they had AH in mind, and very much so, when they were working on the loot and the drop rates. And that the time you have to spend playing in order to get a good drop for your character is just too high for an ARPG game.
I think along the same lines you do. I have never found a set item, ever. I have yet to see a legendary since the new patch. My monk runs with 200%mf unbuffed. The legendary, set, legendary plans, gem plans drop rates are simply horrible. However my opinion. I had a friend come back recently, no paragon lvls no mf, killed one elite pack and got a 1200dps 599 int legendary.. Luck I understand, but I have almost 4000 more elite pack kills then him and nothing to show for it.
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- How ?-
- All BoP items that drop would be for your class, which means every BOP item that drops has to be for the class that has looted the item.
- BoP Items wouldn't be so common when it comes to drop rate but they would guaranty you an upgrade for yourself or close to that.
- How would this help ? -
Diablo 3 is loot based game. With it's current state as it is now and current failure that like it or not we have to agree on, something needs to be done until we get some new content, PvP and such.
I m a Hard Core player. I used to play countless hours clearing Act 3 and when I say clearing I mean killing every elite pack in 5 - 15 seconds. Since patch 1.0.4 but it was pretty much the same in 1.0.3. loot is really horrible.
I m not one of those people who like to complain, that's the fact covered by an argument that I have played over 800 hours and beaten inferno like 2 weeks after game release, the best of all, with WD, half-broken class back than.
So once again, BoP items would guaranteed for your class.
Give me your thoughts about it, really would like to hear your opinion.
I think it wouldn't affect the rest of the playerbase much, so that's a plus. Although maybe we would have an even higher difficulty in selling items on the AH (and some people were already complaining a couple weeks ago that it was nearly impossible selling items), since most people would definitely prefer farming those BoP items than checking the AH for upgrades.
I think it would be very hard to balance this for the top-notch players (who play a lot more than others). You know? Those who like to flex their e-peen around and say how easy the game is and how badass they are
It would also be a very programming intensive solution (balancing drop rates, tweaking the AH, setting measures to prevent duping/abuses) and I doubt Blizzard would focus so much effort in that. Maybe in the future.
Definitely a good idea, would just need a bit of brainstorming and testing before being actually implemented
Originally Posted by (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Posting on a fansite instead of the main website and expecting to get seen by the higher ups? lol
What is items for just your class? How do you define it? Part of diablo 3 is that almost every piece of gear can be used by any class. What if a SICK weapon drops, it rolls 200 str, and 190 int, however, you are a wizard, so it doesn't BoP , and you can sell it .
It's still a cap, just because it's harder to get to doesn't it's gone. D2 leveling was boring after a certain point, You out leveled EVERYTHING, diablo 3 has a much better system.
example now a ilvl 63 weapon can roll 1-350 main stat. it would probably be better if they would start around half that value instead. so that it would be 150-350 instead,
pickup radius for example, an item with ilvl 61-63 can only roll 6-7 yards.
this would not solve, the over saturated AH, but it will help you get a steady flow of decent to good items.
EU Season Achievement Ladder: Season 1 : #773, 7150/7880 | S2 : #742, 5970/8280 | S3 : #1000+, 810/980 | S4 #? 0/? |
No.
No, no, no.
No.
NO.
- Since you never get an upgrade for your own class anyway (almost never) and I played over 800 hours and 99% of my items are from AH (just as 99% other people), adding only few BoP items would solve this thing.
- How ?
Well if you would get a BoP item drop, it would mean that items is for your class and it's a possible upgrade for you. That means that if you get a set BoP item, it will have stats for your class and set bonuses for it. So for example if I get Zunimassa set part for my WD, it would mean that stats rolled on it would be awesome for me.
95% of the items would remain normal, I m just thinking about this to make the players more happy with loot they get, other then getting something ubber cool, then selling then buying the item for that amount for your class.
You know, eventually people will get sick of constant selling/buying just as I did. I want to kill 500 elite champions and get something I can right click in my inventory (equip).
Just my thoughts tho.
Also reason I m not saying this on official forums is because it would never be implemented even if everyone agrees on that. Blizzard can't profit on it = so NO. I just want to hear your thoughts about it, that's all.
I can understand your frustration with the loot system, I haven't found a single item that I could sell for more than 500k yet, but I know that it is because the loot is random and someday I may get it or I can get enough money to buy one off the AH.
Scaled Wurm
P.S. If this is at all hard to read sorry but its too early in the morning for me =)
Diablo has NEVER had BoP items because the game has always been about acquiring items and bartering. Leave "well enough" alone please.
Diablo does not need BoP items, it does not need Valor Points, it does not need guaranteed drops after X kills, it does not need daily quests, it does not need raid instances.
What it all comes down to is that some people aren't happy with drop rates of what they deem as "usable/good" gear.
If you want to find upgrades frequently and feel a sense more of a sense of accomplishment for the time you put in, try starting a character and not touching the AH at all. Things you normally would have vendored instantly become more valuable because what you see is all you're going to get.
If you want to utilize the AH, remember what you think is valuable or a piece of trash may not be what someone else thinks. I found a 60 ring the other day that had what I thought were really low stats and threw it in the AH with an opening bid of 10k and no BIN...auction ended yesterday with the ring selling for a little over 3 mil. I've also had the reverse happen quite a bit where I post something I think is awesome and it goes unsold for 2+ posts.
IMO drop rates are where they need to be...just need the AH to do a little balancing out now that 1.04 has hit so the new items come down a to being a little more reasonable.
Finally...800 hours? You know the game has only been out for 111 days, right? That's an average of 7.2 hours a day...
And that's usually because they used the AH and got pretty good items for 100k-1mil
I kinda understand their feeling, I trully do. Not in the sense that I want godly items. But I kinda wanted to be able to find my own "late game" set, or my own Legendary. And D2 had that, you knew where to go, you knew the average number of runs needed to get it. D3 doesn't have that, it feels like you're not chasing anything. It feels like we're just wandering around sometimes.
They could bring back the Mystic and just do that
Exactly. The end game grind does not feel like a Diablo farm should, it is almost not rewarding at all, and it is purely based on the sustainability of the AH.
As long as I am not able to at least find a few low level set items while leveling characters (and in 300 hours I still haven't seen one on any difficulty on any of my characters) I will not take seriously anyone claiming the system works fine. When it is actually broken, and nowhere near the spirit of the Diablo series. And this comes from the guy who has been defending the game since day one. Things need to be fixed, so the game could survive. And loot should be number one priority on the list. Because that's what this game is all about.
Really?
Really?
I can't take anyone seriously who is trying to make the argument that the game is purposefully and willfully broken by its creators for the "sustainability of the AH."
You know how they create sustainability of the AH? They give you a good product. You enjoy the product and use the AH. The idea that they've somehow submarined their own game to make the AH the focal point is so goddamned ridiculous that I'm shocked you can't see how inside-out your logic is.
You're actually suggesting that Blizzard is purposefully trying to reduce its clientelle in order to get better profits from a system that relies on lots of people listing items. Can you not see how asinine that is?
I got a bit lucky in 1.0.4, I got some WD boots to drop and a cool mojo as well.
I also got: barb belt, monk pants, and DH chest x2. You know what? I sold these on the AH and then bought myself some really nice WD pieces (helm, chest and ring). I currently get happy when a set/legendary drops even if it isn't for my character because I know in the long run (a few days) it will be a nice shiny new piece of gear for my toon.
BoP items? That would destroy the game.
So you're telling me that this loot system was not made to make the AH more viable and popular? That they did not lower the drop chances of set items and legendaries to nearly zero, made affixes almost completely random, made bosses mean nothing, with no regards to the AH? Really?
I understand that the auction is now an integral part of the game, but it simply plays too much of a part. It is not rewarding to grind gold just to buy good items for your character, and that is what is happening now pretty much all of the time. Diablo is about farming items, and feeling the rush when you finally get a great one from time to time. Or at least it used to be about it. That is satisfying, and to me, personally, this system is not nearly as much.
There are some people out there playing without the AH, yes, and hardcore was always much more fun because of the weak auction house, but the vast majority of the player base is just buying all of the items from the end of normal mode to the end game itself.
I never said Blizzard was trying to hurt the game on purpose or whatever, but it is painfully obvious they had AH in mind, and very much so, when they were working on the loot and the drop rates. And that the time you have to spend playing in order to get a good drop for your character is just too high for an ARPG game, because of the ultra randomness of everything.
Have you played diablo 2? The loot system may be similar in terms of legendary, rares, blues but that is it... When you were getting a occulus in d2 you KNEW what you were getting. You werent going to get str or dex or life on hit or 900 other random stats. Nothing is worth then shelling out or getting the mats for that awesome blackbones arrows to have it roll str+int... awesome. The only class that can use it and now its useless. This is the same for every fist, bow, or class based armor or weapon in the game. This right here makes most legendaries utterly useless 90% of the time.
Another thing that is dumb with items is you need 5-6 stats to really really make it solid to godly. There is no resistance cap like in d2 (which there should be!) so everyone needs them(unless your a glass cannon and think getting one shotted is fun).
I still love the game though even though 99% of what I find is useless.
I think along the same lines you do. I have never found a set item, ever. I have yet to see a legendary since the new patch. My monk runs with 200%mf unbuffed. The legendary, set, legendary plans, gem plans drop rates are simply horrible. However my opinion. I had a friend come back recently, no paragon lvls no mf, killed one elite pack and got a 1200dps 599 int legendary.. Luck I understand, but I have almost 4000 more elite pack kills then him and nothing to show for it.