There's just something about this idea that doesn't past the smell test. It's too good.
For such an idea to really work without spiraling out of control, there needs to be a penalty, something to give pause when considering claiming it as "pristine".
An example would be; You can only have one Pristine item equipped at a time. As well, when you claim it as Pristine, it should have a high gold cost AND.....bound to your account. It now only has intrinsic value, it's value as a tradeable item is gone in trade for this powerful adaptation you call "pristine".
Maybe I misunderstood your idea but it sounds like:
Find awesome Skorn, it has awesome bonuses because I found it.
Go to sell/trade the same Skorn and it loses extra attributes and ~20% stats.
Is that right? If so, then the issue is that the item becomes devalued at trade. Sure, that Skorn could still be sold or traded but an items value is inherent to its stats so all of a sudden my BiS item becomes middle of the pack at best. A quick glance at the economy shows middle of the pack stuff is all but useless. I want to have that flexibility to know that if I get a really good item I can use it or get "full market value" for it so I can potentially get something else that I could use. That's all.
Not to beat a dead horse but again the AH does not supply itself and I think it's a tad disingeuine to phrase things in a way that makes it seem like people are just going to the AH and buying items like you would from an in game vendor. Sure people buy items from the AH, but it's a player driven economy and you are in essence trading.
The Mystic seems like a better balance as it gives the players choice. There is a little risk versus reward excitement with it, or at least based on what we know now. The Pristine versus Worn system doesn't give me choice; it takes some away if I am being honest.
I'm not meaning to take a big old dump on your idea, and I hope it's not reading that way. Just offering up my opinions on the matter.
Edit: Shaggy's point is excellent as well and another point that would need to be taken into consideration with a system like this.
I understand. And I'm glad you're active in this discussion. I obviously don't know all the answers and just had an idea that I decided to share to improve loot hunting. The thing is though, I feel like everyone is overestimating the odds you have at finding a high end item you want. Most of the time you will probably:
Find a Pristine Item that won't be one you were looking for / won't work with your current build/class.
Decide to adapt to that item (if it's even a good base roll), save it for later/alts, or sell it.
I still feel a large portion will be sold if this is implemented correctly.
(These seem like better choices than the current to me anyways)
That of course is my thought process. Striking a balance between AH gear and Self-Found is important. I agree with you about the Mystic, I am very excited about that approach too. Even now, Demonic Essences are saving the game for me (playtime = upgrades). But to me, gear drops are too important to be over looked. I have faith in Blizz with Loot 2.0, but I wanted to bring this to the table to see what happens.
Thanks for the response. But what's the difference between selling an item on the AH with the Pristine System opposed to the current system? If you were selling the Skorn in the current system, wouldn't it be the same value as in the Pristine System? It's not like everyone will be finding Skorns and the demand on the AH will die.
The main issue is, once you do find that nice "pristine" Skorn, you have become 20% more powerful in that slot. The game isn't exactly super-difficult as it is, so you are, for all intents and purposes, creating a MASSIVE point of balance concern.
Do you balance monsters around these "pristine" items, or do you just let people who get pristine items have an even easier gameplay experience?
I mean you're basically proposing a Skorn that has max stats of 1600-1700 DPS, 240% critical damage, 7.20% life leech, and a BONUS property. How does such a massive increase in stats work with monsters that have to be killable? Is MP10 going to become only for "pristine"-geared toons? Or will "pristine" items just make it that if you're farming MP10 you'll be able to do it 20% faster, thus mandating "pristine" items for efficiency?
Your point is fair in theory but practice would crush it. The odds of finding a Skorn that is within range of 20% of the ones that are available on the AH and affordable are still extremely small. Look at those high end people who still use ilvl62 amulets from the AH instead of crafted ones.
This idea only tips the odds of finding good gear in our favor, which is brilliant. This does not create characters that are 120% times as powerful as before. Not even close, I doubt a 5% increase in power, maybe 1%.
There's just something about this idea that doesn't past the smell test. It's too good.
For such an idea to really work without spiraling out of control, there needs to be a penalty, something to give pause when considering claiming it as "pristine".
An example would be; You can only have one Pristine item equipped at a time. As well, when you claim it as Pristine, it should have a high gold cost AND.....bound to your account. It now only has intrinsic value, it's value as a tradeable item is gone in trade for this powerful adaptation you call "pristine".
Good points. Glad to hear the idea. This is why discussion exists! Thank you for being constructive. I will be adding community suggested ideas/enhancements to my post soon.
Your point is fair in theory but practice would crush it. The odds of finding a Skorn that is within range of 20% of the ones that are available on the AH and affordable are still extremely small. Look at those high end people who still use ilvl62 amulets from the AH instead of crafted ones.
This idea only tips the odds of finding good gear in our favor, which is brilliant. This does not create characters that are 120% times as powerful as before. Not even close, I doubt a 5% increase in power, maybe 1%.
That 1-5% increase is already enough for people to dismiss entire builds. That 1-5% could mean the difference between having PvP and having completely unbalanced PvP.
I have never argued that finding top items is common, or easy, or anything along those lines. I'm the first person to tell you it's not common. That's EXACTLY what makes this even worse. You find a near-perfect Skorn, you keep it, and now you have a weapon that is 20% better than anything anyone else can have until they get lucky and find their own.
In a game of RNG where there's no way to actually guarantee that you'll find your own items (although Loot 2.0 should change that) it seems really insane to give a 20% bonus to the stats on the item coupled with ANOTHER property to the people who did, indeed, get lucky.
All you're doing is making the lucky people even more powerful and the unlucky people that much further behind. Why would you want that system? It's a good idea on paper, but in practice... as Ruksak said, it just doesn't pass the "smell test." The game is already based on luck... quite heavily. Isn't the whole idea of Loot 2.0 to de-emphasize luck because that system really wasn't working?
EDIT
To further emphasize my point, the difference between a 5% crit mempo and a 6% crit mempo is only, technically 20% on ONE stat, yet they have a significantly different value on the AH. We've already seen how badly we underestimate how much people will do for 1% here, 2% there, 5% there to pretend like 1% or 5% is insignificant. I don't think it's wise to continue to be naive about this subject.
There's just something about this idea that doesn't past the smell test. It's too good.
For such an idea to really work without spiraling out of control, there needs to be a penalty, something to give pause when considering claiming it as "pristine".
An example would be; You can only have one Pristine item equipped at a time. As well, when you claim it as Pristine, it should have a high gold cost AND.....bound to your account. It now only has intrinsic value, it's value as a tradeable item is gone in trade for this powerful adaptation you call "pristine".
There needs to be tuning, but I suppose it would rather have to go the opposite direction instead of nerfing it to actually impact anything. Just look at your current gear and count the number of non-crafts that you have found yourself (unless you already play self-found). I'd say 2 would be a rather big result. Now how much stronger would you be if those 2 items were 20% better?
Mutilate: You're right that the AH is nothing but a trading platform, that's no great observation. It caused the game trouble because it's just too big and in effect acts like the npc vendor that you said it isn't. Playing Diablo 3 consists of killing monsters, selling items to that vendor and buying upgrades from him. That's boring and Blizz decided to make changes.
Also, if we look at WoW, in which the AH premiered, we can see that it has a similar system as proposed here, but much more extreme. The account-bound stuff is far and away above 20% better than the stuff you can simply purchase from the AH, and rightfully so, if you ask me.
Your point is fair in theory but practice would crush it. The odds of finding a Skorn that is within range of 20% of the ones that are available on the AH and affordable are still extremely small. Look at those high end people who still use ilvl62 amulets from the AH instead of crafted ones.
This idea only tips the odds of finding good gear in our favor, which is brilliant. This does not create characters that are 120% times as powerful as before. Not even close, I doubt a 5% increase in power, maybe 1%.
That 1-5% increase is already enough for people to dismiss entire builds. That 1-5% could mean the difference between having PvP and having completely unbalanced PvP.
I have never argued that finding top items is common, or easy, or anything along those lines. I'm the first person to tell you it's not common. That's EXACTLY what makes this even worse. You find a near-perfect Skorn, you keep it, and now you have a weapon that is 20% better than anything anyone else can have until they get lucky and find their own.
In a game of RNG where there's no way to actually guarantee that you'll find your own items (although Loot 2.0 should change that) it seems really insane to give a 20% bonus to the stats on the item coupled with ANOTHER property to the people who did, indeed, get lucky.
All you're doing is making the lucky people even more powerful and the unlucky people that much further behind. Why would you want that system? It's a good idea on paper, but in practice... as Ruksak said, it just doesn't pass the "smell test." The game is already based on luck... quite heavily. Isn't the whole idea of Loot 2.0 to de-emphasize luck because that system really wasn't working?
Hmm, I don't know how much of an advantage it's actually adding. Currently, if you find a Perfect rolled item you become 99% ahead of the curve anyways. Pristine DOES give you a chance at finding something better, but you have to find it yourself (which I think is what a lot of people want). Yes, I admit that adds extra luck factor (but at least it's to self-found items)
But if it does imbalance the 1/1,000,000 player, is that really a huge problem? It is likely to be only one of their items. Maybe it could actually bring the average player's gear closer together in value.
There needs to be tuning, but I suppose it would rather have to go the opposite direction instead of nerfing it to actually impact anything. Just look at your current gear and count the number of non-crafts that you have found yourself (unless you already play self-found). I'd say 2 would be a rather big result. Now how much stronger would you be if those 2 items were 20% better?
I play self-found HC, and have only done so for a few weeks. Already, I have a INT 1350ish DPS Skorn and Zuni boots. On SC, I don't play SF but, both my Nats pieces (Monk) are self found and thy're pretty frickin good as well.
You can take a peek yourself at the link in my siggy :Thumbs Up:
The Pristine idea is great, it's just too wide open.
The single best addition I could make toward that idea is to have it be so that only one Pristine can be equipped at a time. Considering the power behind the Pristine idea, I think this is more than fair.
Otherwise, after a year or two, only noobs will have even a single slot that's non-pristine. It would kill the market, the trade aspect of any ARPG is crucial.
EDIT: BTW Warlock, great idea and thanks for bringing a solid proposal to the table in concern toward self found. I do not support the idea of a separate SF mode. I do, however, support not only recognition for SF items, but some perks for them as well. I just feel there needs to be balance.
EDIT
To further emphasize my point, the difference between a 5% crit mempo and a 6% crit mempo is only, technically 20% on ONE stat, yet they have a significantly different value on the AH. We've already seen how badly we underestimate how much people will do for 1% here, 2% there, 5% there to pretend like 1% or 5% is insignificant. I don't think it's wise to continue to be naive about this subject.
The reason they cost more is because they are rarer and "Best In-slot/stat", not because they are much more powerful. Their costs don't justify their value/power to the average player.
The thing is though, I feel like everyone is overestimating the odds you have at finding a high end item you want.
That's the point a ~20% stat boost will push a mediocre item to a great item but then that great item becomes mediocre again when you go to trade. The items then become vendor trash and the person is left with a feeling of "well I just got screwed". That's how I would feel at least. Right now, when I see that orange beam I get a little "oooooh" feeling. When I Id the item I immediately know it's good or bad, no question. With the Pristine system, it adds an extra layer of "hey this would be awesome, if I actually needed it, but I don't so...well look at that, it's a crappy item in the open market." I don't think we need to muddy that water.
Mutilate: You're right that the AH is nothing but a trading platform, that's no great observation. It caused the game trouble because it's just too big and in effect acts like the npc vendor that you said it isn't. Playing Diablo 3 consists of killing monsters, selling items to that vendor and buying upgrades from him. That's boring and Blizz decided to make changes.
You certainly would think it was a revelation to end all revelations the way people talk about it. I try not to make assumptions about people's understanding and comprehension. I blew some people’s minds this week when I told them the GAH and RMAH are two different things and not just a conversion from one to the other. Not everyone posts on fan forums and stays informed the way, well the way we do.
You say it cause troubles and I say it made it more accessible. Opinions are fun like that. Let's not go trying to insinuate that everyone that plays the game plays the same way. For you and lots of other people playing Diablo 3 has become what you pointed out. That's not true of everyone though. I am not implying you are saying that but I just like to be as transparent as possible with things like this.
All of that being said, I 200% agree that there needs more "self-found" in the game. I think we are heading in that direction right now and I am excited to see where it goes!
The thing is though, I feel like everyone is overestimating the odds you have at finding a high end item you want.
That's the point a ~20% stat boost will push a mediocre item to a great item but then that great item becomes mediocre again when you go to trade. The items then become vendor trash and the person is left with a feeling of "well I just got screwed". That's how I would feel at least. Right now, when I see that orange beam I get a little "oooooh" feeling. When I Id the item I immediately know it's good or bad, no question. With the Pristine system, it adds an extra layer of "hey this would be awesome, if I actually needed it, but I don't so...well look at that, it's a crappy item in the open market." I don't think we need to muddy that water.
Maybe so, but that item would be just as crappy to sell now. It would give you the option to change your build around a cool item that YOU found, or trash it like you would anyways.
Your point is fair in theory but practice would crush it. The odds of finding a Skorn that is within range of 20% of the ones that are available on the AH and affordable are still extremely small. Look at those high end people who still use ilvl62 amulets from the AH instead of crafted ones.
This idea only tips the odds of finding good gear in our favor, which is brilliant. This does not create characters that are 120% times as powerful as before. Not even close, I doubt a 5% increase in power, maybe 1%.
That 1-5% increase is already enough for people to dismiss entire builds. That 1-5% could mean the difference between having PvP and having completely unbalanced PvP.
I have never argued that finding top items is common, or easy, or anything along those lines. I'm the first person to tell you it's not common. That's EXACTLY what makes this even worse. You find a near-perfect Skorn, you keep it, and now you have a weapon that is 20% better than anything anyone else can have until they get lucky and find their own.
Maybe we have different expectations about the game in general. You don't want the lucky people to have the best stuff, I don't want the 24/7 AH people to have it. Not that I care to much about that, but I don't like the idea of "working" for my equipment instead of playing.
Still, even if someone finds that max everything Skorn and gets the 20% bonus ontop of that, he would still need billions of gold to buy the rest of his equipment if he wants to secure that edge over people like Jaetch for example. And unless they would meet in the Arena, who would care? You would probably never meet that guy.
Your point is fair in theory but practice would crush it. The odds of finding a Skorn that is within range of 20% of the ones that are available on the AH and affordable are still extremely small. Look at those high end people who still use ilvl62 amulets from the AH instead of crafted ones.
This idea only tips the odds of finding good gear in our favor, which is brilliant. This does not create characters that are 120% times as powerful as before. Not even close, I doubt a 5% increase in power, maybe 1%.
That 1-5% increase is already enough for people to dismiss entire builds. That 1-5% could mean the difference between having PvP and having completely unbalanced PvP.
I have never argued that finding top items is common, or easy, or anything along those lines. I'm the first person to tell you it's not common. That's EXACTLY what makes this even worse. You find a near-perfect Skorn, you keep it, and now you have a weapon that is 20% better than anything anyone else can have until they get lucky and find their own.
Maybe we have different expectations about the game in general. You don't want the lucky people to have the best stuff, I don't want the 24/7 AH people to have it. Not that I care to much about that, but I don't like the idea of "working" for my equipment instead of playing.
Still, even if someone finds that max everything Skorn and gets the 20% bonus ontop of that, he would still need billions of gold to buy the rest of his equipment if he wants to secure that edge over people like Jaetch for example. And unless they would meet in the Arena, who would care? You would probably never meet that guy.
"hey this would be awesome, if I actually needed it, but I don't so...well look at that, it's a crappy item in the open market." I don't think we need to muddy that water.
What if the Mystic could add you the pristine bonus? Then what you found could become better if you want and at the moment you ID it you'll see the normal stats without the pristine bonus. This way you won't be disappointed by the real stats when the item is placed at the AH.
The point is to make more balanced the line between self-found items and AH items as OP already explained.
Maybe we have different expectations about the game in general. You don't want the lucky people to have the best stuff, I don't want the 24/7 AH people to have it.
Nooooo.
I want lucky people to have great stuff, and I don't want people who spend more time in the AH to be the "winners" either. I just don't want a system that further exacerbates "luck" as that has proven to NOT WORK.
Just look at the current system. Why are people using the AH so much? Their luck sucks, plain and simple. The only difference with this system is that a guy who got lucky with a great Skorn is now forced to use it on one of his characters instead of selling it to someone else. It's not really changing anything from a broad perspective.
We all want randomized loot but we don't want each item to have less of a chance of being good than winning the Powerball lottery, right? That's the whole idea behind Loot 2.0 - less quantity, more quality, more relevance to our toons. The reason the game can be so frustrating right now is because you'd be better off taking your $60 to a casino and having at the roulette wheel.
Lucky people will always have more gold or more items than unlucky people. We don't need to make that gap bigger, it's already far too big. Loot 2.0 is trying to close that gap... right? I just don't see how putting a further 20% on self-found items helps that goal.
"hey this would be awesome, if I actually needed it, but I don't so...well look at that, it's a crappy item in the open market." I don't think we need to muddy that water.
What if the Mystic could add you the pristine bonus? Then what you found could become better if you want and at the moment you ID it you'll see the normal stats without the pristine bonus. This way you won't be disappointed by the real stats when the item is placed at the AH.
The point is to make more balanced the line between self-found items and AH items as OP already explained.
I mean in a way that's what the Mystic will do, we just don't know to what extent. The Mystic comes with a consequence though, which is what others have mentioned. I get a great item but it needs a little fine tuning to work for me. Do I risk making it BoA to get it there or do I put it up on the AH to get some gold and buy the item the already exists with the right stats I am looking for? Choice matters to me and I want my choices to have weight to them. Like you and others have said it's a balance issue. Balance is far easier said than done.
Maybe we have different expectations about the game in general. You don't want the lucky people to have the best stuff, I don't want the 24/7 AH people to have it.
Nooooo.
I want lucky people to have great stuff, and I don't want people who spend more time in the AH to be the "winners" either. I just don't want a system that further exacerbates "luck" as that has proven to NOT WORK.
Just look at the current system. Why are people using the AH so much? Their luck sucks, plain and simple. The only difference with this system is that a guy who got lucky with a great Skorn is now forced to use it on one of his characters instead of selling it to someone else. It's not really changing anything from a broad perspective.
We all want randomized loot but we don't want each item to have less of a chance of being good than winning the Powerball lottery, right? That's the whole idea behind Loot 2.0 - less quantity, more quality, more relevance to our toons. The reason the game can be so frustrating right now is because you'd be better off taking your $60 to a casino and having at the roulette wheel.
Lucky people will always have more gold or more items than unlucky people. We don't need to make that gap bigger, it's already far too big. Loot 2.0 is trying to close that gap... right? I just don't see how putting a further 20% on self-found items helps that goal.
I don't think it matters what your luck is. If you're a super lucky player who finds tons of high-end items, I bet you'd still be better off Auctioning your items and buying the specific stats you need. This is the whole point. You have to use the AH no matter your luck.
The only way you won't "always" have to use the AH is if there is a way of making self-discovered items have an advantage that "balances" with AH use. If players are using about 20-60% Self-Found, and the rest from AH I think, I think that would be a success. I think players would feel much more unique.
Lucky people will always have more gold or more items than unlucky people. We don't need to make that gap bigger, it's already far too big. Loot 2.0 is trying to close that gap... right? I just don't see how putting a further 20% on self-found items helps that goal.
High-end drops will always be great (with Pristine or without). But all the low/average value drops won't be and are usually trashed. But with the Pristine system, those items have a chance. Those items also drop much more frequently than the rare, high-end items. Therefore, more lower-end players will be pushed closer to the high-end players because of the frequency of drops. This will actually help close the gap, not expand it, therefore reducing Luck as a factor.
Example: For every one 1500 dps Skorn that drops, one-hundred 1300 dps Skorns drop (estimating, wouldn't be surprised if it's more). In the current system, the one player gets a great weapon OR great trade, the others get vendor trash. With Pristine, the one player gets a top of the line weapon OR a good trade, and the 100 others get useful items too, possibly many of them gaining decent upgrades, bringing their stats as a group closer together to the 1500 Skorn player.
I can understand that trading with your friends would mean that they receive a weaker version, but that's the whole point. You just made their lives easier. That's what trading should be all about. A way to catch up or circumvent really bad rng. Trading shouldn't be able to allow you to "finish" the game without actually playing it.
QFT.
I'm not sure if this is in line with Blizzard's opinion about trading (they clearly said at some point D3 is a trading game), but it is definitely my opinion.
I can understand that trading with your friends would mean that they receive a weaker version, but that's the whole point. You just made their lives easier. That's what trading should be all about. A way to catch up or circumvent really bad rng. Trading shouldn't be able to allow you to "finish" the game without actually playing it.
QFT.
I'm not sure if this is in line with Blizzard's opinion about trading (they clearly said at some point D3 is a trading game), but it is definitely my opinion.
For such an idea to really work without spiraling out of control, there needs to be a penalty, something to give pause when considering claiming it as "pristine".
An example would be; You can only have one Pristine item equipped at a time. As well, when you claim it as Pristine, it should have a high gold cost AND.....bound to your account. It now only has intrinsic value, it's value as a tradeable item is gone in trade for this powerful adaptation you call "pristine".
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
I understand. And I'm glad you're active in this discussion. I obviously don't know all the answers and just had an idea that I decided to share to improve loot hunting. The thing is though, I feel like everyone is overestimating the odds you have at finding a high end item you want. Most of the time you will probably:
This.
Good points. Glad to hear the idea. This is why discussion exists! Thank you for being constructive. I will be adding community suggested ideas/enhancements to my post soon.
That 1-5% increase is already enough for people to dismiss entire builds. That 1-5% could mean the difference between having PvP and having completely unbalanced PvP.
I have never argued that finding top items is common, or easy, or anything along those lines. I'm the first person to tell you it's not common. That's EXACTLY what makes this even worse. You find a near-perfect Skorn, you keep it, and now you have a weapon that is 20% better than anything anyone else can have until they get lucky and find their own.
In a game of RNG where there's no way to actually guarantee that you'll find your own items (although Loot 2.0 should change that) it seems really insane to give a 20% bonus to the stats on the item coupled with ANOTHER property to the people who did, indeed, get lucky.
All you're doing is making the lucky people even more powerful and the unlucky people that much further behind. Why would you want that system? It's a good idea on paper, but in practice... as Ruksak said, it just doesn't pass the "smell test." The game is already based on luck... quite heavily. Isn't the whole idea of Loot 2.0 to de-emphasize luck because that system really wasn't working?
EDIT
To further emphasize my point, the difference between a 5% crit mempo and a 6% crit mempo is only, technically 20% on ONE stat, yet they have a significantly different value on the AH. We've already seen how badly we underestimate how much people will do for 1% here, 2% there, 5% there to pretend like 1% or 5% is insignificant. I don't think it's wise to continue to be naive about this subject.
There needs to be tuning, but I suppose it would rather have to go the opposite direction instead of nerfing it to actually impact anything. Just look at your current gear and count the number of non-crafts that you have found yourself (unless you already play self-found). I'd say 2 would be a rather big result. Now how much stronger would you be if those 2 items were 20% better?
Mutilate: You're right that the AH is nothing but a trading platform, that's no great observation. It caused the game trouble because it's just too big and in effect acts like the npc vendor that you said it isn't. Playing Diablo 3 consists of killing monsters, selling items to that vendor and buying upgrades from him. That's boring and Blizz decided to make changes.
Also, if we look at WoW, in which the AH premiered, we can see that it has a similar system as proposed here, but much more extreme. The account-bound stuff is far and away above 20% better than the stuff you can simply purchase from the AH, and rightfully so, if you ask me.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
Hmm, I don't know how much of an advantage it's actually adding. Currently, if you find a Perfect rolled item you become 99% ahead of the curve anyways. Pristine DOES give you a chance at finding something better, but you have to find it yourself (which I think is what a lot of people want). Yes, I admit that adds extra luck factor (but at least it's to self-found items)
But if it does imbalance the 1/1,000,000 player, is that really a huge problem? It is likely to be only one of their items. Maybe it could actually bring the average player's gear closer together in value.
I play self-found HC, and have only done so for a few weeks. Already, I have a INT 1350ish DPS Skorn and Zuni boots. On SC, I don't play SF but, both my Nats pieces (Monk) are self found and thy're pretty frickin good as well.
You can take a peek yourself at the link in my siggy :Thumbs Up:
The Pristine idea is great, it's just too wide open.
The single best addition I could make toward that idea is to have it be so that only one Pristine can be equipped at a time. Considering the power behind the Pristine idea, I think this is more than fair.
Otherwise, after a year or two, only noobs will have even a single slot that's non-pristine. It would kill the market, the trade aspect of any ARPG is crucial.
EDIT: BTW Warlock, great idea and thanks for bringing a solid proposal to the table in concern toward self found. I do not support the idea of a separate SF mode. I do, however, support not only recognition for SF items, but some perks for them as well. I just feel there needs to be balance.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
The reason they cost more is because they are rarer and "Best In-slot/stat", not because they are much more powerful. Their costs don't justify their value/power to the average player.
That's the point a ~20% stat boost will push a mediocre item to a great item but then that great item becomes mediocre again when you go to trade. The items then become vendor trash and the person is left with a feeling of "well I just got screwed". That's how I would feel at least. Right now, when I see that orange beam I get a little "oooooh" feeling. When I Id the item I immediately know it's good or bad, no question. With the Pristine system, it adds an extra layer of "hey this would be awesome, if I actually needed it, but I don't so...well look at that, it's a crappy item in the open market." I don't think we need to muddy that water.
You certainly would think it was a revelation to end all revelations the way people talk about it. I try not to make assumptions about people's understanding and comprehension. I blew some people’s minds this week when I told them the GAH and RMAH are two different things and not just a conversion from one to the other. Not everyone posts on fan forums and stays informed the way, well the way we do.
You say it cause troubles and I say it made it more accessible. Opinions are fun like that. Let's not go trying to insinuate that everyone that plays the game plays the same way. For you and lots of other people playing Diablo 3 has become what you pointed out. That's not true of everyone though. I am not implying you are saying that but I just like to be as transparent as possible with things like this.
All of that being said, I 200% agree that there needs more "self-found" in the game. I think we are heading in that direction right now and I am excited to see where it goes!
Maybe so, but that item would be just as crappy to sell now. It would give you the option to change your build around a cool item that YOU found, or trash it like you would anyways.
Maybe we have different expectations about the game in general. You don't want the lucky people to have the best stuff, I don't want the 24/7 AH people to have it. Not that I care to much about that, but I don't like the idea of "working" for my equipment instead of playing.
Still, even if someone finds that max everything Skorn and gets the 20% bonus ontop of that, he would still need billions of gold to buy the rest of his equipment if he wants to secure that edge over people like Jaetch for example. And unless they would meet in the Arena, who would care? You would probably never meet that guy.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
What if the Mystic could add you the pristine bonus? Then what you found could become better if you want and at the moment you ID it you'll see the normal stats without the pristine bonus. This way you won't be disappointed by the real stats when the item is placed at the AH.
The point is to make more balanced the line between self-found items and AH items as OP already explained.
Nooooo.
I want lucky people to have great stuff, and I don't want people who spend more time in the AH to be the "winners" either. I just don't want a system that further exacerbates "luck" as that has proven to NOT WORK.
Just look at the current system. Why are people using the AH so much? Their luck sucks, plain and simple. The only difference with this system is that a guy who got lucky with a great Skorn is now forced to use it on one of his characters instead of selling it to someone else. It's not really changing anything from a broad perspective.
We all want randomized loot but we don't want each item to have less of a chance of being good than winning the Powerball lottery, right? That's the whole idea behind Loot 2.0 - less quantity, more quality, more relevance to our toons. The reason the game can be so frustrating right now is because you'd be better off taking your $60 to a casino and having at the roulette wheel.
Lucky people will always have more gold or more items than unlucky people. We don't need to make that gap bigger, it's already far too big. Loot 2.0 is trying to close that gap... right? I just don't see how putting a further 20% on self-found items helps that goal.
I mean in a way that's what the Mystic will do, we just don't know to what extent. The Mystic comes with a consequence though, which is what others have mentioned. I get a great item but it needs a little fine tuning to work for me. Do I risk making it BoA to get it there or do I put it up on the AH to get some gold and buy the item the already exists with the right stats I am looking for? Choice matters to me and I want my choices to have weight to them. Like you and others have said it's a balance issue. Balance is far easier said than done.
I don't think it matters what your luck is. If you're a super lucky player who finds tons of high-end items, I bet you'd still be better off Auctioning your items and buying the specific stats you need. This is the whole point. You have to use the AH no matter your luck.
The only way you won't "always" have to use the AH is if there is a way of making self-discovered items have an advantage that "balances" with AH use. If players are using about 20-60% Self-Found, and the rest from AH I think, I think that would be a success. I think players would feel much more unique.
High-end drops will always be great (with Pristine or without). But all the low/average value drops won't be and are usually trashed. But with the Pristine system, those items have a chance. Those items also drop much more frequently than the rare, high-end items. Therefore, more lower-end players will be pushed closer to the high-end players because of the frequency of drops. This will actually help close the gap, not expand it, therefore reducing Luck as a factor.
Example:
For every one 1500 dps Skorn that drops, one-hundred 1300 dps Skorns drop (estimating, wouldn't be surprised if it's more). In the current system, the one player gets a great weapon OR great trade, the others get vendor trash. With Pristine, the one player gets a top of the line weapon OR a good trade, and the 100 others get useful items too, possibly many of them gaining decent upgrades, bringing their stats as a group closer together to the 1500 Skorn player.
QFT.
I'm not sure if this is in line with Blizzard's opinion about trading (they clearly said at some point D3 is a trading game), but it is definitely my opinion.
I also agree.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450