Hey guys im just wondering what do you guys think about Skills with Cooldowns in PvE.
In my opinion CDs just dont fit in the Diablo play stile, also i think that 2 min CD is way too long for Diablo Skills, i cant see myself waiting 2 min for a VERY COOL skill to recharge,cool skills should be able to be cast often and i just keep forgetting to use spells with more than 30 sec CD, so what is teh point of having CD.
I just think if they want to fix a skill usage, like to fix the Teleport skill from Diablo 2, they should just increase the amount of resource spent to be able to use certain skill.
Well.....
Maybe im too damn sick of WoW and all those ^%$^%$ CDs.
Cooldowns force you to think strategically and allow for some skills to be way awesome.
I much rather have a 2min cd skill, than the same skill without cooldown, but doing about the same damage as a normal attack.
Cooldowns is whats keeping it from being a one-skill-use mash-fest.
I really don't see why people keep thinking CD=WoW.
I like the diversity, and honestly wouldn't be playing D3 for long if there was none.
But dont you think 2 min is way too long? Dont forget we will have only 7 skills and that includes everything, mobility, offensive, defense.... thinking of which 3 or 4 for offense leaving you with only 3 for mobility and defense, if with that huge CD of 2 min maybe on 2 of your offensive skills, you will end up spamming on 2 skills once again.
Cooldowns force you to think strategically and allow for some skills to be way awesome.
I much rather have a 2min cd skill, than the same skill without cooldown, but doing about the same damage as a normal attack.
Cooldowns is whats keeping it from being a one-skill-use mash-fest.
I really don't see why people keep thinking CD=WoW.
I like the diversity, and honestly wouldn't be playing D3 for long if there was none.
But dont you think 2 min is way too long? Dont forget we will have only 7 skills and that includes everything, mobility, offensive, defense.... thinking of which 3 or 4 for offense leaving you with only 3 for mobility and defense, if with that huge CD of 2 min maybe on 2 of your offensive skills, you will end up spamming on 2 skills once again.
There are traits, gems and runes that lower the cooldowns of skills.
and no, we'll have a total of 20 skills but only 7 will be usable at one time.
Anything >= 10 sec just doesn't sit right for me. Diablo is a hack and slash game, not grand strategy.
While it's a good way to 'pigeonhole' people into using/getting the low tier skills as well and not just switch over to the high tier ones as soon as you can, I think D2 does a good job at that as well with synergies. Especially if you can expand on that idea.
Diablo and Diablo 2 were both hack n' slash but Diablo 3 is different as far as I know. It might not be all about strategy but thinking you can run into a group of monsters and just hack n' slash your way through them might be possible but sometimes you have to use certain "OH SH*T" skills to get rid of them and spamming those 2 minute CD skills as if they have no cooldown what would be the fun in using them if you continuously spam them, doesn't make them all high & mighty anymore now does it?
Also if they were no CD on those skills they would make your lower tier skills obsolete and you'll never want to use those skills again.
I like cooldowns. It makes the skill have worth, you know? If I'm spamming this amazing skill continually all 4 acts for 3 difficulties, it makes it feel... lame. It's like getting a new toy; after you've played with it for a long time, it just gets old.
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The final test of the Serpent's Form takes place in "The Pit of 12 Vipers." The initiates are not told about the 13th.
All your points are just moot though if they just make it a ridiculous amount to cast, This makes it ten times better than a 2min cooldown because A you prob will forget about the skill in the heat of battle causing you to use it like once every 5 minutes. B With an insane resource cost you'll actually help it because remember there are no more pots, well there are they just aren't as readily available and those should have cooldowns like 2 min, but if you pick up a mana orb or recharge your fury all the way you should be able to use the skill without worry. This way you get to use it but only if you have enough resources which doesn't accumulate over time. like with the Wizard in order to get those big skills usable you must build up arcane power by using the lower tier skills that build but don't take, If i build it all the way up just to not be able to use it what was the point in me building it up... NOTHING! Its the same with mana, If I have 250/300 mana i should be able to use my awesome gargantuan spell, wichh i then have to kill mobs just tofind a damn mana orb, to do what nothing because i have to wait 2 minutes to cast cooler spells. The most effective way to combat spamming of OP spells is ridiculous resource cost. They'll be available to the player but still not spammable. Whereas with a cooldown you're required to wait which blows because you could be using a cool spell but are forced to use a shittier more uncool spell.
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Not even Death will save you from Diablo Bunny's Cuteness!
In / towards end-game you'll be able to spam those high end skills but you also have to remember not every class runs on mana, so a high resource cost for one class is not the same as another.
I'm not against cooldowns at all but a 2 minute cooldown in a fastpaced game like diablo3???
This obviously sucks. Max cooldown I wanna see on a maximum of 2 skills is 1 minute. Those skills must be so imbalanced and overpowered, that it's worth to wait for them.
Imagine pvp, you will use those skills max 1 time per round.
Hmmm ... I have only considered that Diablo III would fall in line with the other 2 in the series and be a hack-n-slash type of game. With that in mind, CDs don't exist in my view of what hack-n-slash games are. I admit that I like the no-boundries style of Diablo 2's mash-every-button-I-have .. but not everyone likes that. And I don't even think that Blizzard is happy with that mechanic. Soooo ...
If Blizzard is deviating from the traditional path of whack-a-mole style skills ... that's fine. I just have to wrap my head around it and change my play style. Besides, maybe the CD skill being theorized is so bloody awesome that it really would be OP if it wasn't on a CD. Muhahahaha *cough*
I like having cooldowns, it makes a skill feel more important (because it is), also sets up a rotation rather than keyboard mashing.
A rotation in D2? Really?
No, I thought we were taking about CD's for D3. Since there was pretty much just 2-3 skills used for any char in D2 and you still just spammed whatever spell was best (Frozen orb, multishot, ww, corpse explosion, etc.) That's why I think longer CD's will make the game more fun.
I can see the point of view many of you have regarding not being fond of cooldowns on abilities. It is definitely new ground in the Diablo franchise and it can be a bit intimidating or different or what have you. However I think that the abilities in Diablo have always been limited in potential power, and one of the main factors in limiting this power is their lack of desire to add cooldowns to abilities. One of the most effective and hassle-free ways to balance powerful abilities is by adding cooldowns and tweaking those cooldowns to find the best spot where the ability feels just right both on a level of how much fun it is and on a level of how powerful it is.
I know that Diablo is a fast paced action RPG, which, by definition, probably doesn't lend itself as a game where you have long cooldowns on abilities. That being said if they have added some really unique and fun ways to make your character feel extremely powerful I think that's great. Remember Diablo is about that lone (or very small group of) adventurer(s) that challenge and defeat god-like beings in single combat. Finding a way to make your character stand far above the average Joe, or even other very powerful characters, is one of the driving forces behind the game. Having your Wizard overcharge their magical energy to the point where they incinerate and entire house and everything in it, or having your Barbarian call upon the Ancients to help him in combat isn't something just any schmuck could do, and even a hero as powerful as them wouldn't be able to do several times in quick succession.
I feel as long as the abilities that are offset by a cooldown, however long they may be, are sufficiently powerful you will learn to adapt to them, that is as long as you choose to take them. Remember there will be plenty of other abilities for you to use on demons and whatnot, many of which will probably only be limited by your swing timer or your cast speed. I for one can't wait to see what Blizzard has in store for us, ability-wise. I think they will have outdone themselves in Diablo III.
ok, we have been given an example referring to 3 barbarian skills and we are all bursting out.
Let's say 2 minutes is the cooldown of a certain skill at level 1, let's say this time could be reduced adding skill points, let's say you can reduce it again using runes and/or traits and/or gems and/or items stats (%fcr in D2, why not %reduced CDs in D3?)
Picking up the barb as an example, you can select a less powerful but shorter CD skill, then you spend points on Traits as well as some nice rune to power up such skill to deal out a vast amount of damage.
Otherwise you can go for an higher tier higher damage higher CD skill and then you spend points in Traits (and add a rune) which reduce CD lenght. this way you cannot power up the skill (which was more powerful in the beginning) but you can use it more often (like the less powerful one).
I guess all this stuff is about balance and customizability and I like the approach.
Just think of this: if you could select the higher tier skill, add a damage enhancing rune, spend your points on damage enhancing Traits and have no cooldown...would you ever use any other skill?
I dislike cooldowns... cop out in game design if you ask me. Then you start playing whackamole.
I want to choose my skills because they're GOOD, not because the best skill has a huge cooldown and I need something to cast while it's down.
It still works, to an extent, but if you played certain champions in LoL, you'd know that some of them the entire kit is: "Press all buttons as fast as possible". I avoid them like fire, too.
People have to realize that the two minutes is likely from when the skill is cast. Two of the highest tier Barbarian skills we know about last for "X" seconds. So as you put more points into the skill, it may last 20-30 seconds and the skill is likely cooling down for that time period as well. So you are only really without it for 1:40 or 1:30 as opposed to a full two minutes.
Then you factor in traits and other things that may be able to reduce cooldown time. You may only end up waiting 30-45 seconds to be able to actually feel the effect of the skill again... Which (IMO) leads to a lot more diversity.
One of the major complaints people have had about Diablo 2 was "All I did was spam the same skill over and over. I wish other skills were still viable". Well this makes other skills viable and keeps you using multiple things (and thinking about what to use in the process) as opposed to just mashing the same button over and over.
I dunno, it could be a flop. I think Blizzard has a pretty good idea of how to balance things though, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. The logic makes perfect sense to me, especially reading the highest tier Barbian skills, as they seem very powerful.
As long as the global cooldown is <= 1 second then I will be okay with that and then longer cooldowns on really powerful spells. The only bad thing with something like a 10 min CD is I never use it cause I want it to be there if I get into trouble lol. Just like LoH and heroism from WoW.
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[color-white]So many skeletons.....[/color]
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In my opinion CDs just dont fit in the Diablo play stile, also i think that 2 min CD is way too long for Diablo Skills, i cant see myself waiting 2 min for a VERY COOL skill to recharge,cool skills should be able to be cast often and i just keep forgetting to use spells with more than 30 sec CD, so what is teh point of having CD.
I just think if they want to fix a skill usage, like to fix the Teleport skill from Diablo 2, they should just increase the amount of resource spent to be able to use certain skill.
Well.....
Maybe im too damn sick of WoW and all those ^%$^%$ CDs.
But dont you think 2 min is way too long? Dont forget we will have only 7 skills and that includes everything, mobility, offensive, defense.... thinking of which 3 or 4 for offense leaving you with only 3 for mobility and defense, if with that huge CD of 2 min maybe on 2 of your offensive skills, you will end up spamming on 2 skills once again.
There are traits, gems and runes that lower the cooldowns of skills.
and no, we'll have a total of 20 skills but only 7 will be usable at one time.
Monk > Wizard > Barbarian > Demon Hunter > Witch Doctor
Diablo and Diablo 2 were both hack n' slash but Diablo 3 is different as far as I know. It might not be all about strategy but thinking you can run into a group of monsters and just hack n' slash your way through them might be possible but sometimes you have to use certain "OH SH*T" skills to get rid of them and spamming those 2 minute CD skills as if they have no cooldown what would be the fun in using them if you continuously spam them, doesn't make them all high & mighty anymore now does it?
Also if they were no CD on those skills they would make your lower tier skills obsolete and you'll never want to use those skills again.
Monk > Wizard > Barbarian > Demon Hunter > Witch Doctor
In / towards end-game you'll be able to spam those high end skills but you also have to remember not every class runs on mana, so a high resource cost for one class is not the same as another.
Monk > Wizard > Barbarian > Demon Hunter > Witch Doctor
This obviously sucks. Max cooldown I wanna see on a maximum of 2 skills is 1 minute. Those skills must be so imbalanced and overpowered, that it's worth to wait for them.
Imagine pvp, you will use those skills max 1 time per round.
If Blizzard is deviating from the traditional path of whack-a-mole style skills ... that's fine. I just have to wrap my head around it and change my play style. Besides, maybe the CD skill being theorized is so bloody awesome that it really would be OP if it wasn't on a CD. Muhahahaha *cough*
Hopefully even lower.
Must be one mighty skill- like once you use it, all monsters until the next waypoint just die or pretend they don't see you or something.
lol, I like you too.
No, I thought we were taking about CD's for D3. Since there was pretty much just 2-3 skills used for any char in D2 and you still just spammed whatever spell was best (Frozen orb, multishot, ww, corpse explosion, etc.) That's why I think longer CD's will make the game more fun.
I know that Diablo is a fast paced action RPG, which, by definition, probably doesn't lend itself as a game where you have long cooldowns on abilities. That being said if they have added some really unique and fun ways to make your character feel extremely powerful I think that's great. Remember Diablo is about that lone (or very small group of) adventurer(s) that challenge and defeat god-like beings in single combat. Finding a way to make your character stand far above the average Joe, or even other very powerful characters, is one of the driving forces behind the game. Having your Wizard overcharge their magical energy to the point where they incinerate and entire house and everything in it, or having your Barbarian call upon the Ancients to help him in combat isn't something just any schmuck could do, and even a hero as powerful as them wouldn't be able to do several times in quick succession.
I feel as long as the abilities that are offset by a cooldown, however long they may be, are sufficiently powerful you will learn to adapt to them, that is as long as you choose to take them. Remember there will be plenty of other abilities for you to use on demons and whatnot, many of which will probably only be limited by your swing timer or your cast speed. I for one can't wait to see what Blizzard has in store for us, ability-wise. I think they will have outdone themselves in Diablo III.
EDIT for dumb grammar.
Let's say 2 minutes is the cooldown of a certain skill at level 1, let's say this time could be reduced adding skill points, let's say you can reduce it again using runes and/or traits and/or gems and/or items stats (%fcr in D2, why not %reduced CDs in D3?)
Picking up the barb as an example, you can select a less powerful but shorter CD skill, then you spend points on Traits as well as some nice rune to power up such skill to deal out a vast amount of damage.
Otherwise you can go for an higher tier higher damage higher CD skill and then you spend points in Traits (and add a rune) which reduce CD lenght. this way you cannot power up the skill (which was more powerful in the beginning) but you can use it more often (like the less powerful one).
I guess all this stuff is about balance and customizability and I like the approach.
Just think of this: if you could select the higher tier skill, add a damage enhancing rune, spend your points on damage enhancing Traits and have no cooldown...would you ever use any other skill?
I want to choose my skills because they're GOOD, not because the best skill has a huge cooldown and I need something to cast while it's down.
It still works, to an extent, but if you played certain champions in LoL, you'd know that some of them the entire kit is: "Press all buttons as fast as possible". I avoid them like fire, too.
Then you factor in traits and other things that may be able to reduce cooldown time. You may only end up waiting 30-45 seconds to be able to actually feel the effect of the skill again... Which (IMO) leads to a lot more diversity.
One of the major complaints people have had about Diablo 2 was "All I did was spam the same skill over and over. I wish other skills were still viable". Well this makes other skills viable and keeps you using multiple things (and thinking about what to use in the process) as opposed to just mashing the same button over and over.
I dunno, it could be a flop. I think Blizzard has a pretty good idea of how to balance things though, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. The logic makes perfect sense to me, especially reading the highest tier Barbian skills, as they seem very powerful.