for the most part i plan to only play with friends because i have so many who i know will play this, so this isn't a big deal to me. the few times i'm in games with random pubs i can just leave and make my own game, no biggie
I think they are just holding off for the first month or so, so people who aren't playing with friends wouldn't get kicked out of a party of 2 or 3 friends.
Vote/Kick systems are always a doube edged sword, but, all things considered, I'm in favour of its presence in D3. The 2nd situation you described will be WAY less common than the first, so it would be a net gain
I don't see how it's ever a double-edged sword. If 3 out of 4 players want a guy out of their group, they should be able to do so. It doesn't even matter if they do it to game the system either. If 75% of a group just doesn't want the 4th, what's the real issue here?
And before you say "But what if the 3 guys are friends and they want to cheat the 4th out of loot?" Well, considering that loot drops for people on an individual basis (to the best of my knowledge) you could still just make it so every voter needs to be out of combat for 20-30 seconds to validate the vote to kick. Not much room for group-grieving then.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Some people tell me I'm going to hell. I just let them know that I've already packed my bags!
Now that MF/GF has been eliminated, and leeching is non-existent there doesn't seem to be a point.
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"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
I think kicking should be allowed but make it buried in menus. The harder it is to kick somebody, the less likely it would be used by griefers.
Is it possible to have a game and lock it so that others cannot join? That would prevent people from joining games that are just a couple of buddies playing together.
For the few occasions where it might be used for griefing: arbitrary kicking without even talking to the person, kicking because of class / loadout / playstyle / being new to the game, kicking as a group of friends right before a big event / boss / rare monster, to me a very clear solution would be let people know that whoever does that and is reported risks being banned from anywhere between a week (for first offenders, etc.) to a month or 2 (to repeated offenders). To me that's very very reasonable and reporting players is a feature already in the game (so it wouldn't be a big issue).
Thoughts?
I'm not sure how I feel about Blizzard implementing a kick feature and then saying how people can and cannot use it in addition to banning people temporarily for using it in an unapproved way. I don't think there's anything that a gaming company can reasonably do about people ruining other people's fun as long as they are doing it within the original parameters of the game's mechanics. You can only go so far in promoting cooperative play. If you know of some sort of precedent for such a system being successful, I am interested in hearing about it.
Is it possible to have a game and lock it so that others cannot join? That would prevent people from joining games that are just a couple of buddies playing together.
Yes, there is already a feature (at least it was in D1 and D2) to create private, password-protected games.
Is it possible to have a game and lock it so that others cannot join? That would prevent people from joining games that are just a couple of buddies playing together.
When you create a game in the beta, it starts off as private unless you open it up to public. You can still invite friends to your game even when it's private though. That's what people who want to play with their friends will do.
As I've said, some might think idle players in public games might not be a big deal, but once everyone finds out a way of doing it without being at the computer or while having to do other chores, and realizes how much exp/gold it gives (from quests being complete), Public Games could be ruined forever, with most matches having an afker.
For future reference, this discussion is mainly about being able to kick in Public games, considering the fact that quite a few people will probably try this "matchmaker" feature. This has nothing to do with playing with friends, or with Private games.
And yeah, I see the issues my previous suggestion would cause. Reports never seem to work properly in most games, and identifying griefing is very hard, specially when the griefers get the hand of how they're judged and just don't behave like that but still grief.
I've thought about an "idle player kick system", but I think it could get in the way of people who want to help their friends level up while they're afk.
The best I can think of is an "idle player kick system" which needs 3 votes and that can be activated/deactivated (so you can use it against afkers but not harm people you don't want to - maybe they ask for the group "yo guys, I need 5/10 mins, can you deactivate idle kick for a couple minutes?" and everyone accepts, then it's fine).
It wouldn't be able to be used for griefing (as it's easy to notify the person the "idle kick system" is in effect) and it would definitely solve the issue with idlers/afkers (which seems to be already happening in the beta, as myself and another poster reported, and could very easily happen in retail once things are for real).
Brainstorm this suggestion? Possible problems? Thoughts?
I'm thinking we can actually forward some community feedback on this issue to Blizzard and help them decide on this as well (I'm sure they're having a hard time figuring out what to do with this system too, otherwise it would make it to retail. They want to put it in, but they don't know what will happen) How awesome would that be? Discussing something and getting to a suggestion everyone likes and getting it implemented in the game
Both options in this poll suck. I'd like Blizzard to come up with a better system, possibly player rating. Perhaps with a slider so you could open your game to People with 10 times more Likes than Dislikes and maybe have to wait a bit or players with same ratio of Likes to Dislikes and have your game fill instantly.
You have to think in this day and age on the interwebs, 'how can one abuse this?'. A 'like and dislike' feature would completely suck. You'd have to have a million systems in place to make sure it isn't abused, along the lines of a timer of how long someone has been in a game with the person they are attempting to like or dislike, the status of that game ect. Because if you didn't, all it would take would be a pissed off troll and (whatever the number) amount of friends to just go around disliking people to get them kicked.
We've dealt with it before and the most simplistic implementation would be a vote off. If the kick-ee doesn't get a vote then it has to be at least 2 of the remaining players. Hell I wouldn't mind there not being a kick option at all =D
The best I can think of is an "idle player kick system" which needs 3 votes and that can be activated/deactivated (so you can use it against afkers but not harm people you don't want to - maybe they ask for the group "yo guys, I need 5/10 mins, can you deactivate idle kick for a couple minutes?" and everyone accepts, then it's fine).
It wouldn't be able to be used for griefing (as it's easy to notify the person the "idle kick system" is in effect) and it would definitely solve the issue with idlers/afkers (which seems to be already happening in the beta, as myself and another poster reported, and could very easily happen in retail once things are for real).
Problem is that wouldn't stop the afkers one bit. All they'd need is an auto clicker, or auto mover, or any other automated scripted action to avoid the afk timer :P.
While I dislike thinking that kicking will be necessary at all, the way they've set up all of their core systems seems to require it. It is silly that people afking in a town get credit for quest completion. And the obviously the gamewide difficulty increase is also a problem.
Still the best/easiest and yet not perfect solution seems to be only game creator can start the vote and a necessary unanimous vote of (total players)-1 for it to kick. 4 players, need 3 to kick 1, 3 need 2 to kick 1, 2, creator can kick :P. Still abusable but the lesser of two evils IMO.
If kicking is implemented I'd also like some feature for the kicked/kicking players to add the opposite party to a black list though, so they don't get matched up again. That way, if you feel you were kicked by people being asshats, you just make sure you won't get matched with them again and thus have no fear of those people showcasing their asshattery again.
Both options in this poll suck. I'd like Blizzard to come up with a better system, possibly player rating. Perhaps with a slider so you could open your game to People with 10 times more Likes than Dislikes and maybe have to wait a bit or players with same ratio of Likes to Dislikes and have your game fill instantly.
The options were made considering's Blizzard stance on this right now. Your idea is awesome, and I think it would work pretty well, but I don't see Blizzard working on something as complex as that right now, they're probably going with the simpler option of either having a simple kick system or not.
Problem is that wouldn't stop the afkers one bit. All they'd need is an auto clicker, or auto mover, or any other automated scripted action to avoid the afk timer :P.
Man, I feel dumb now. Nevermind my horrible suggestion. That's why brainstorming is needed, so dumb stuff like that doesn't get through.
If kicking is implemented I'd also like some feature for the kicked/kicking players to add the opposite party to a black list though, so they don't get matched up again. That way, if you feel you were kicked by people being asshats, you just make sure you won't get matched with them again and thus have no fear of those people showcasing their asshattery again.
That would be amazing. No downsides to that, right?
Considering how easy it is to join games, the big number of public games that should be available, and the fact that being kicked right before a boss wouldn't mean much, since their loot isn't the best (except maybe on Inferno after getting a couple stacks of Nephalem Valor) I believe the best would be to have a kick system as well, and most players would probably agree that it's the lesser of 2 evils.
Right now, the most immediate answer they should have for the issue of idle people is just making them not earn exp/gold for quests. At least while they don't put in a kicking system. I think everyone can agree with that too.
That would be amazing. No downsides to that, right?
... I can't quote tell if this is sarcasm or not lol. If its not, then carry on, if it is... I'm not sure I see a downside to this, so I'd like some explaination. Can't see the reason someone would want to kick/be kicked by the same people repeatedly, specially in the case of afk bots. The negative effects of this could be?.... Eventually you blacklist everyone on your server? Or they all blacklist you?.... Seems the common factor in all cases would be you, enjoy your single player game of asshattery :D. Win win for everyone no?
I adore kicking, but it won't make it at launch :/ Darn it with this game, if only they took their time making it... It's not like it's been 6-7 years since they started it!
Question: In order for someone else to join, do I have to make the game public? What does this mean: I ONLY want my friend/bro/gf/dad/dog to join, can I create a "private" game?
when u open a game it's private game - which means ur friend list can join and u can inv ppl. if u want it to be public - and ppl from the matching system can join u need to press Esc and click the public button option.
imho there shouldn't be a kick system cuz it's open to abuse - in comparison to WoW, ppl did abuse it to their liking, and in most pug cases if u didn't get kicked it's because u were good enough for the grp. now unlike wow in D3 u can change ur skills at a sec notice so there is another element in the game that can cuz u to be kicked - if u don't put the skills the grp wants.
now personally if most ppl in game doesn't like my spec or i can change it or i will leave( i know alot of ppl won't give a sh_it and stay even if all of the grp doesn't want him).
now when it comes to ppl which join just to abuse the grp in any way. that grp can leave the game and open new 1- which in that case the only thing u lose from ur previous game is - ur nephlam valor and mobs behind u get respawned. as u guys know when ever u leave a game u can resume that same game from that same spot or mayB alittle early point(checkpoint if i am correct). so if u afraid u won't be able to grp with the same ppl before the abusive player enter...u have in ur social window( or what ever it calls) ur recent ppl u play with and if that doesn't work u can just put them in ur friend list.
i agree that at some point of time u will be so unlucky that ever game u open ur game is full of abusive ppl( but thats not so often)...as u can see my opinion, i don't think there should be a kick system cuz i believe there r more picky players than abusive player - and there for the advantage of a non kick system is higher.
hopefully i mange to give a bit different point of view on the subject and contributed the discussion.
Someone earlier siad they'd hate to be kicked from a game because it's *Barb only* and I actually think this is a little narrow-minded. I can see same-class runs being fun and as you can't label servers at the moment it seems harsh to not allow those people to run a barb only boss run if that's what they want to do.
I posted that. I'm not saying that it wouldn't be fun to have a game full of all Barbarians or all Wizards or whatever, I'm just saying that I would not want to be getting kicked from games as soon as I joined them for being the wrong class, having the wrong gear, etc. If there is a kick feature, I think that people should have the right to kick people for these reasons - it's just really annoying if you're the person getting kicked.
I like the idea that when you kick someone, that person just gets kicked into their own private game. This makes it less frustrating if you're the person trying to join a game. The best would be if the kickee gets kicked into a duplicate game, and here's what I mean by that:
You and two other people are about to kill Diablo. You all kill him, and you see a legendary fall on the ground. Before you can grab it, you see a message that says "Someone has started a vote to kick you." Next thing you know, you're in the lobby looking at a popup that says "You have been kicked from this game." Two people thought it would be funny to play a prank on you. Bummer.
So in that same scenario, maybe instead of going to the lobby, you just get kicked into a new game. You're standing in the same place, the legendary is still on the ground - just the players who kicked you aren't there anymore. I don't know if this is possible at all, but it really seems like the way to go in terms of satisfying the people who want the right to kick whomever and making sure that people who are the recipients of abuse don't get their game ruined.
Maybe that's an unlikely scenario, but you get the idea. The thing is, D1 and D2 functioned pretty well without a kick option, and there was tons of hacking in those games and people coming in PKing who were very actively trying to ruin the game for everyone. You just left the game and found a new one where people weren't doing that.
I think its ok to have kickfunction for whoever started the game. If you start a game, 1 random joins, and he/she is really nice and you enjoy playing alongside him/her. Then 5 min later another one joins, and he/she is a complete tit. It would make sense to be able to kick that last person instead of remaking the game, and loose w/e progress you might have.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I can see what you see not. Vision milky, then eyes rot.
When you turn, they will be gone. Whispering their hidden song.
Then you see what cannot be. Shadows move where light should be.
Out of darkness, out of mind. Cast down into the Halls of the Blind
That would be amazing. No downsides to that, right?
... I can't quote tell if this is sarcasm or not lol. If its not, then carry on, if it is... I'm not sure I see a downside to this, so I'd like some explaination. Can't see the reason someone would want to kick/be kicked by the same people repeatedly, specially in the case of afk bots.
No sarcasm at all. I loved it. The question added after that is to incentive more opinions
But after playing Left 4 Dead 2 and realizing that the power of a kick system, left in the hands of completely retarded gamers = ruin games. - I vote no. No for a kick system that resembles L4D2 majority vote anyways.
For AFKers. An idle player system. 10 minutes of no movement = Prompt players present in-game for a vote to kick idle player. If vote fails prompt again in 30 minutes. If vote fails again - no more prompts. If the player idle is the creator of the game, he's exempt.
So in that same scenario, maybe instead of going to the lobby, you just get kicked into a new game. You're standing in the same place, the legendary is still on the ground
That system would be like drop-dupe heaven. You could continually splinter games from the original and farm bosses directly without clearing previous areas.
That system would be like drop-dupe heaven. You could continually splinter games from the original and farm bosses directly without clearing previous areas.
Yeah, there would probably be some way. With privatized loot, though, I don't know how someone would do that if they couldn't get back into the game they were banned from.
(probably the same people who liked PKing guys 50 lvls below them in D2).
What about 50 levels higher then them?
I think a kick system should be in place, that way if someone gets mouthy you can get rid of em, kinda like in Diablo 2 with hostility.
As far as drops go when kicked, could make all drops in radius of you teleport to a secondary inventory when you join a new game it pops up like in GW and asks if you want to keep any of it.
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That way no one gets denied the first month
I don't see how it's ever a double-edged sword. If 3 out of 4 players want a guy out of their group, they should be able to do so. It doesn't even matter if they do it to game the system either. If 75% of a group just doesn't want the 4th, what's the real issue here?
And before you say "But what if the 3 guys are friends and they want to cheat the 4th out of loot?" Well, considering that loot drops for people on an individual basis (to the best of my knowledge) you could still just make it so every voter needs to be out of combat for 20-30 seconds to validate the vote to kick. Not much room for group-grieving then.
Epicurus
Is it possible to have a game and lock it so that others cannot join? That would prevent people from joining games that are just a couple of buddies playing together.
Yes, there is already a feature (at least it was in D1 and D2) to create private, password-protected games.
When you create a game in the beta, it starts off as private unless you open it up to public. You can still invite friends to your game even when it's private though. That's what people who want to play with their friends will do.
For future reference, this discussion is mainly about being able to kick in Public games, considering the fact that quite a few people will probably try this "matchmaker" feature. This has nothing to do with playing with friends, or with Private games.
And yeah, I see the issues my previous suggestion would cause. Reports never seem to work properly in most games, and identifying griefing is very hard, specially when the griefers get the hand of how they're judged and just don't behave like that but still grief.
I've thought about an "idle player kick system", but I think it could get in the way of people who want to help their friends level up while they're afk.
The best I can think of is an "idle player kick system" which needs 3 votes and that can be activated/deactivated (so you can use it against afkers but not harm people you don't want to - maybe they ask for the group "yo guys, I need 5/10 mins, can you deactivate idle kick for a couple minutes?" and everyone accepts, then it's fine).
It wouldn't be able to be used for griefing (as it's easy to notify the person the "idle kick system" is in effect) and it would definitely solve the issue with idlers/afkers (which seems to be already happening in the beta, as myself and another poster reported, and could very easily happen in retail once things are for real).
Brainstorm this suggestion? Possible problems? Thoughts?
I'm thinking we can actually forward some community feedback on this issue to Blizzard and help them decide on this as well (I'm sure they're having a hard time figuring out what to do with this system too, otherwise it would make it to retail. They want to put it in, but they don't know what will happen) How awesome would that be? Discussing something and getting to a suggestion everyone likes and getting it implemented in the game
You have to think in this day and age on the interwebs, 'how can one abuse this?'. A 'like and dislike' feature would completely suck. You'd have to have a million systems in place to make sure it isn't abused, along the lines of a timer of how long someone has been in a game with the person they are attempting to like or dislike, the status of that game ect. Because if you didn't, all it would take would be a pissed off troll and (whatever the number) amount of friends to just go around disliking people to get them kicked.
We've dealt with it before and the most simplistic implementation would be a vote off. If the kick-ee doesn't get a vote then it has to be at least 2 of the remaining players. Hell I wouldn't mind there not being a kick option at all =D
Problem is that wouldn't stop the afkers one bit. All they'd need is an auto clicker, or auto mover, or any other automated scripted action to avoid the afk timer :P.
While I dislike thinking that kicking will be necessary at all, the way they've set up all of their core systems seems to require it. It is silly that people afking in a town get credit for quest completion. And the obviously the gamewide difficulty increase is also a problem.
Still the best/easiest and yet not perfect solution seems to be only game creator can start the vote and a necessary unanimous vote of (total players)-1 for it to kick. 4 players, need 3 to kick 1, 3 need 2 to kick 1, 2, creator can kick :P. Still abusable but the lesser of two evils IMO.
If kicking is implemented I'd also like some feature for the kicked/kicking players to add the opposite party to a black list though, so they don't get matched up again. That way, if you feel you were kicked by people being asshats, you just make sure you won't get matched with them again and thus have no fear of those people showcasing their asshattery again.
Man, I feel dumb now. Nevermind my horrible suggestion. That's why brainstorming is needed, so dumb stuff like that doesn't get through.
That would be amazing. No downsides to that, right?
Considering how easy it is to join games, the big number of public games that should be available, and the fact that being kicked right before a boss wouldn't mean much, since their loot isn't the best (except maybe on Inferno after getting a couple stacks of Nephalem Valor) I believe the best would be to have a kick system as well, and most players would probably agree that it's the lesser of 2 evils.
Right now, the most immediate answer they should have for the issue of idle people is just making them not earn exp/gold for quests. At least while they don't put in a kicking system. I think everyone can agree with that too.
... I can't quote tell if this is sarcasm or not lol. If its not, then carry on, if it is... I'm not sure I see a downside to this, so I'd like some explaination. Can't see the reason someone would want to kick/be kicked by the same people repeatedly, specially in the case of afk bots. The negative effects of this could be?.... Eventually you blacklist everyone on your server? Or they all blacklist you?.... Seems the common factor in all cases would be you, enjoy your single player game of asshattery :D. Win win for everyone no?
when u open a game it's private game - which means ur friend list can join and u can inv ppl. if u want it to be public - and ppl from the matching system can join u need to press Esc and click the public button option.
imho there shouldn't be a kick system cuz it's open to abuse - in comparison to WoW, ppl did abuse it to their liking, and in most pug cases if u didn't get kicked it's because u were good enough for the grp. now unlike wow in D3 u can change ur skills at a sec notice so there is another element in the game that can cuz u to be kicked - if u don't put the skills the grp wants.
now personally if most ppl in game doesn't like my spec or i can change it or i will leave( i know alot of ppl won't give a sh_it and stay even if all of the grp doesn't want him).
now when it comes to ppl which join just to abuse the grp in any way. that grp can leave the game and open new 1- which in that case the only thing u lose from ur previous game is - ur nephlam valor and mobs behind u get respawned. as u guys know when ever u leave a game u can resume that same game from that same spot or mayB alittle early point(checkpoint if i am correct). so if u afraid u won't be able to grp with the same ppl before the abusive player enter...u have in ur social window( or what ever it calls) ur recent ppl u play with and if that doesn't work u can just put them in ur friend list.
i agree that at some point of time u will be so unlucky that ever game u open ur game is full of abusive ppl( but thats not so often)...as u can see my opinion, i don't think there should be a kick system cuz i believe there r more picky players than abusive player - and there for the advantage of a non kick system is higher.
hopefully i mange to give a bit different point of view on the subject and contributed the discussion.
best regards,
Arrok
I like the idea that when you kick someone, that person just gets kicked into their own private game. This makes it less frustrating if you're the person trying to join a game. The best would be if the kickee gets kicked into a duplicate game, and here's what I mean by that:
You and two other people are about to kill Diablo. You all kill him, and you see a legendary fall on the ground. Before you can grab it, you see a message that says "Someone has started a vote to kick you." Next thing you know, you're in the lobby looking at a popup that says "You have been kicked from this game." Two people thought it would be funny to play a prank on you. Bummer.
So in that same scenario, maybe instead of going to the lobby, you just get kicked into a new game. You're standing in the same place, the legendary is still on the ground - just the players who kicked you aren't there anymore. I don't know if this is possible at all, but it really seems like the way to go in terms of satisfying the people who want the right to kick whomever and making sure that people who are the recipients of abuse don't get their game ruined.
Maybe that's an unlikely scenario, but you get the idea. The thing is, D1 and D2 functioned pretty well without a kick option, and there was tons of hacking in those games and people coming in PKing who were very actively trying to ruin the game for everyone. You just left the game and found a new one where people weren't doing that.
But after playing Left 4 Dead 2 and realizing that the power of a kick system, left in the hands of completely retarded gamers = ruin games. - I vote no. No for a kick system that resembles L4D2 majority vote anyways.
For AFKers. An idle player system. 10 minutes of no movement = Prompt players present in-game for a vote to kick idle player. If vote fails prompt again in 30 minutes. If vote fails again - no more prompts. If the player idle is the creator of the game, he's exempt.
That system would be like drop-dupe heaven. You could continually splinter games from the original and farm bosses directly without clearing previous areas.
I think a kick system should be in place, that way if someone gets mouthy you can get rid of em, kinda like in Diablo 2 with hostility.
As far as drops go when kicked, could make all drops in radius of you teleport to a secondary inventory when you join a new game it pops up like in GW and asks if you want to keep any of it.