I'm just curious, but when you see a music video on youtube with 100 million views, isn't that a LOT of customers lost? I mean, how many times could 1 person listen to the same song on average, 50? This means 2 million viewers that listened to that song 50 times over. If they were all to buy the song instead, that's some big bucks right there.
Don't like it, hardly ever do it, and the reasoning behind that is that the funds that you give those who made the thing your downloading deserve some form of credit for all the work they put into their creation. As an aspiring musician and hearing about how crucial album sales are, I feel bad for them because there are people who do pirate their music.
Which of course is a valid moral look on it. However, it does not change the nature of digital information and the world we live in. Media has an infinite supply, there's nothing to do about that. That means one can either try to limit the spread of said infinite supply (which is bound to fail barring the aforementioned police state) or you can realize that it cannot be enforced to a sufficient degree, and shift your focus to making money off of these products some other way.
To which I say, "if you were serious about liking that group, you would want to give them all the support you could give, fiscal or just spreading their name around. Also, taking into account how much effort they put into their art, you would probably expect some sort of payment if you were in their shoes."
None of which actually give any of them any "right" to charge people. You're essentially talking about donations here made in good will, not an actual trade between a seller and a buyer.
The future is in subscription-based games, charging micro-fees from all the necessary stuff you need to do, requiring the game to be played on the game company's servers - and focusing legal action on good & large "pirate servers" (i.e. people offering non-official servers for the game), not individual pirates.
Indeed. I'm not too happy about it on all levels (speaking of games here specifically), we'll probably not see very many outstanding singleplayer games any more from large studios. Dragon Age is an exception that still sold surprisingly well, but there aren't that many others these days.
On the other hand, piracy is about the only thing that protects us customers from the massive amount of crap games released on the marked. By "crap" I don't mean ... "neah, I don't like the combat system", I mean "bugged", "unfinished", "bordering not working", "crashing", etc. Game companies think they can release bad products, add an extremely abusive EULA on top which basically say they can whatever they like and take your money. How can I, as an individual protect myself, against that (the answer to that will probably vary from country to country, where I live I have exactly 0 chances)?
How about seeing what professional reviewers (of which there is an insane amount it seems) have to say regarding the game, and judge by that? It seems to have worked great in the past, and still seems to seeing as there are critics everywhere.
My opinion is that capitalist principles can't be applied to information nowadays, we can't apply the same old principles for limited resources for virtually infinite capacity of reproducing one product on the internet, the very same law of supply and demand looses it's scope on this new territory of the economy.
I'd say it still works very well, because the result is entirely as expected. When the supply becomes infinite, there's little incentive for anyone to actually pay anything for the product. Which is what we see is happening with piracy.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
Why are you guys making such a huge deal out of this. The things that I get pirated, I get purely for convenience sake. If they weren't available as pirated versions, I wouldn't even get them, no way. I wouldn't pay 50+$ for a video game, no fucking chance. Unless it's Diablo 3, because I KNOW I'm gonna still be playing it 5 years from now, even more. I wouldn't pay 50$ or even 25$ to get 1 season of a show that I want to watch. You have to realize that eventhough some people are buying pirated things..they wouldn't buy them if they weren't available.
Why are you guys making such a huge deal out of this. The things that I get pirated, I get purely for convenience sake. If they weren't available as pirated versions, I wouldn't even get them, no way. I wouldn't pay 50+$ for a video game, no fucking chance. Unless it's Diablo 3, because I KNOW I'm gonna still be playing it 5 years from now, even more. I wouldn't pay 50$ or even 25$ to get 1 season of a show that I want to watch. You have to realize that eventhough some people are buying pirated things..they wouldn't buy them if they weren't available.
True. People definitely consume many more games if they can pirate them for free rather than having to pay for each and every one. I think a major reason for Photoshop being as dominant as it is is because it can be downloaded. If it couldn't, many more people would be using alternatives like Gimp and such.
However, the people who would normally buy a game are also pirating it in today's world. And they are quite a few. So in the end, the current busniess model can't last.
@Phrozen.
Because all the paid reviewers are full of bullshit?
Just look at IGN, their reviewers are borderline-retarded when it comes to games.
While I cannot say that I read IGN reviews very often, I'm going to go ahead and assume that your opinion on the matter might not be representative of the gaming world.
Ultimately however, this is the same problem that faces any industry. How does the customer know that he isn't getting ripped off? And the answer is probably the same in games as elsewhere: reputation and buzz about it. Reviews are one, people you know another, past experience with the company etc. Downloading complete games as a measure to test them only works at present because the market still assumed people will buy them while the customer does not have to. When this changes and things turns to asubscription model or microtransactions, people will once again have to rely on external sources to gather information about whether the game is good or not.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
Well those people are just idiots. I only really care about Diablo nowadays, and no other video game. It's gonna be the very first game I get legitimately.
What he means by buying a game and pirateing it, or how i understand it in that matter, is that there are some very well made custom DVD's that you cant get anywhere else - even if you paid for the actual gamme/s. I got a DVD from demonoid with diablo 1, 2 and LOD, all sountracs, cinematics - everything! And all this is in one place easy to use and good to have. And i still seed it, lol!
Bout game reviews - all i can say most of them suck. If the company pays the reviewer, he'll toss the most awesome superlatives bout that game. If he's left hungry, he'll concentrate on the bad things the game has... it's just so subjective and false, that mades me pirate even more, lol.
PLEASE REMOVE THE LINK THIS IS WHAT WE GET YELLED AT FOR BY THE FORUM FEDS
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Will be changed at some point, I'm too lazy right now.
I understand the concept of the thread and i've noticed that it's been pretty constructive, but try to stray away from posting direct links to warez. Thanks guys, ;).
I understand the concept of the thread and i've noticed that it's been pretty constructive, but try to stray away from posting direct links to warez. Thanks guys, ;).
Thank you.
Well, it seems the post is going down. But it is good to know you guys are flexiable.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Will be changed at some point, I'm too lazy right now.
I'm impressed with how sensible most of you are. Yes, piracy is just a fact of life. Companies that sell things physically or online can't completely get rid of piracy. These things you can never get rid of. You can only manage them. Companies will try to maximize their profits while people will always try to get what they can for free. The majority of people pay for things, the rest of the people pirating them are merely what's forcing the industries to find new ways to keep them from doing so. The ideas and technologies for anti-piracy are in large part thanks to pirates anyway. Which is kind of a self-defeating statement, but it's all just a never ending cycle between producer and consumer.
I havent read all the posts and hope what i say hasn't been said.
wouldnt it be fine if it was free to download and copy and reproudce games/music/etc. (gonna stay with games here)
but when you would start a game up. you would need to setup an account. and with that account setup process it would say.
"oh in order to play this game we ask for a small fee, this fee is to ensure the developers of this game do not strike for making no money on the hard work they did to give you the enjoyment and heart feld memories to come from playing"
this way. the actual downloading of the software or piracy is not even needed anymore.
Prove to me that the developers are not making money. BioWare. Dragon Age. SP game. Cracked fast. Earned tons.
Movie makers. Star Trek 09. Most pirated movie of that year I heard, made tons of money.
Music seems quite fine, as well, I don't really follow it, though, but music is probably the most afflicted.
Who are these poor developers that are not making any money off their "hard" work? Ironlore? Lolool.
Yeah most people simply aren't willing to go through the hassle of pirating a thing. If lots of people are pirating a movie or game, it's because that thing is really successful and making a lot of money already. Like, if I found a torrent for say, Star Trek, I would find the torrent very easily because of how hugely successful it is. And for every person downloading it for free, there are tons more actually buying the dvd.
It's like for each product, there will be a certain percentage of people who will pirate it. And that number usually goes up synchronously as do sales of that product.
As for me pirating music on the other hand, well I'm not sure anyone deserves to live off of making music. Artists are sentenced to be poor unless they are really lucky. That's why most struggling artists need to give up on their dreams and go work in factories. OR...they'll be so amazingly good at their music making that inevitably they're going to make plenty of money one way or the other.
That's what they do with movies in theaters. Except those movies aren't free. You now sit through about 15 minutes of commercials before the 15 minutes of previews come on.
That's what they do with movies in theaters. Except those movies aren't free. You now sit through about 15 minutes of commercials before the 15 minutes of previews come on.
Ehh, kinda, sorta...
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Will be changed at some point, I'm too lazy right now.
Kinda sorta? Unless you're showing up for the movie intentionally late (which is what I do), then yes, you have to sit through a shitload of commercials and previews. When was the last time you went to a movie theater? And really, its an affront to people who pay a lot of money to go see a movie which is why I've no moral qualms of my own when pirating a movie.
That's what they do with movies in theaters. Except those movies aren't free. You now sit through about 15 minutes of commercials before the 15 minutes of previews come on.
Kinda sorta? Unless you're showing up for the movie intentionally late (which is what I do), then yes, you have to sit through a shitload of commercials and previews. When was the last time you went to a movie theater? And really, its an affront to people who pay a lot of money to go see a movie which is why I've no moral qualms of my own when pirating a movie.
That's what they do with movies in theaters. Except those movies aren't free. You now sit through about 15 minutes of commercials before the 15 minutes of previews come on.
Kinda sorta? Unless you're showing up for the movie intentionally late (which is what I do), then yes, you have to sit through a shitload of commercials and previews. When was the last time you went to a movie theater? And really, its an affront to people who pay a lot of money to go see a movie which is why I've no moral qualms of my own when pirating a movie.
This.
Irrational, stop being so rational, for God sake.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Will be changed at some point, I'm too lazy right now.
Kinda sorta? Unless you're showing up for the movie intentionally late (which is what I do), then yes, you have to sit through a shitload of commercials and previews. When was the last time you went to a movie theater? And really, its an affront to people who pay a lot of money to go see a movie which is why I've no moral qualms of my own when pirating a movie.
I think it depends on where you live. I live near a pretty small town and when I go to the movies there its 3-4 previews then straight into the movie, however I go to college in a big city and when I went to a movie a few days ago it was 10 minutes of commercials followed by around 7 previews and then the movie.
Hmm, I never thought of that. I figured each movie was delivered to theaters with the same reels which perhaps included the ads. My town is just medium sized but all the theaters here have really long ads.
None of which actually give any of them any "right" to charge people. You're essentially talking about donations here made in good will, not an actual trade between a seller and a buyer.
Indeed. I'm not too happy about it on all levels (speaking of games here specifically), we'll probably not see very many outstanding singleplayer games any more from large studios. Dragon Age is an exception that still sold surprisingly well, but there aren't that many others these days.
How about seeing what professional reviewers (of which there is an insane amount it seems) have to say regarding the game, and judge by that? It seems to have worked great in the past, and still seems to seeing as there are critics everywhere.
I'd say it still works very well, because the result is entirely as expected. When the supply becomes infinite, there's little incentive for anyone to actually pay anything for the product. Which is what we see is happening with piracy.
Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions
However, the people who would normally buy a game are also pirating it in today's world. And they are quite a few. So in the end, the current busniess model can't last.
While I cannot say that I read IGN reviews very often, I'm going to go ahead and assume that your opinion on the matter might not be representative of the gaming world.
Ultimately however, this is the same problem that faces any industry. How does the customer know that he isn't getting ripped off? And the answer is probably the same in games as elsewhere: reputation and buzz about it. Reviews are one, people you know another, past experience with the company etc. Downloading complete games as a measure to test them only works at present because the market still assumed people will buy them while the customer does not have to. When this changes and things turns to asubscription model or microtransactions, people will once again have to rely on external sources to gather information about whether the game is good or not.
Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions
PLEASE REMOVE THE LINK THIS IS WHAT WE GET YELLED AT FOR BY THE FORUM FEDS
Diablo III Analyst
SC2Mapster
Well, it seems the post is going down. But it is good to know you guys are flexiable.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
wouldnt it be fine if it was free to download and copy and reproudce games/music/etc. (gonna stay with games here)
but when you would start a game up. you would need to setup an account. and with that account setup process it would say.
"oh in order to play this game we ask for a small fee, this fee is to ensure the developers of this game do not strike for making no money on the hard work they did to give you the enjoyment and heart feld memories to come from playing"
this way. the actual downloading of the software or piracy is not even needed anymore.
does this make sense? I feel it will help.
Movie makers. Star Trek 09. Most pirated movie of that year I heard, made tons of money.
Music seems quite fine, as well, I don't really follow it, though, but music is probably the most afflicted.
Who are these poor developers that are not making any money off their "hard" work? Ironlore? Lolool.
It's like for each product, there will be a certain percentage of people who will pirate it. And that number usually goes up synchronously as do sales of that product.
As for me pirating music on the other hand, well I'm not sure anyone deserves to live off of making music. Artists are sentenced to be poor unless they are really lucky. That's why most struggling artists need to give up on their dreams and go work in factories. OR...they'll be so amazingly good at their music making that inevitably they're going to make plenty of money one way or the other.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
What if game companies just made their game free, but you first had to make your way through a dick-load of advertisements XD.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
This.
Irrational, stop being so rational, for God sake.
I think it depends on where you live. I live near a pretty small town and when I go to the movies there its 3-4 previews then straight into the movie, however I go to college in a big city and when I went to a movie a few days ago it was 10 minutes of commercials followed by around 7 previews and then the movie.
I was quite pissed.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs