Until just hours ago, I had never beaten Diablo 1. I had played a few times long ago, and gotten pretty far, but never slew the big man. Now, after having completed the whole bloody affair, I think--despite it's numerous flaws which were improved upon in the sequel--Diablo 1 might have been the better game (at least, at it's most fundamental level).
I feel like the freedom of the skill and stat system makes for a better core than the skill trees of D2 and the modified stat roles (particularly Magic). Sure, it's imbalanced as all hell, but being able to use any skill you had enough magic points to learn makes your character feel very unique and customizable.
There are loads and loads of problems with Diablo 1 which were improved in Diablo 2, but I find myself wondering if Diablo 2 wouldn't have been a better game with something more similar to the older skill system.
Diablo 3 seems to have found a comfortable balance between the two; freely chosen skills from a preset pool of tiers. Class specific skills, and level rather than stat based, but otherwise quite similar to Diablo 1. Removing the trees and giving us this huge variety of options makes me think it will have a strong D1 vibe.
Diablo 1 also felt more threatening and strategic. Positioning mattered, and monsters were very dangerous. There was usually a number of ways to approach a problem, but you couldn't really just charge in guns blazing (most of the time). Diablo 3 also seems to be encouraging this as well, with more interesting enemy types that demand different combat strategies than "charge, spam right click."
Anyway, which do you guys think is better? To qualify and summarize my answer, I think Diablo 1 was a fundamentally better-designed game (skill/stat system, play style), but Diablo 2 was constructed and polished far better (UI, responsiveness/feel, pacing, loot variety, graphical clarity, etc).
Well, Diablo 1 was better than Diablo II in some areas, and Diablo II was better than Diablo 1 in places. So, it's a bit hard to pick what was ultimately better, but in terms of gameplay, replayability, and addictiveness, I would say that Diablo II took the crown.
But in terms of the dark atmosphere, enemies, music, and challenge, it would go to Diablo 1. The last level on Diablo 1 was always the most fun because of how hard it was if you weren't fully prepared. Fighting your way to each of the levers was pretty tricky.
www.myspace.com/mpotatoes for all your Trans Siberian Orchestra listening pleasure
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
A combination of both would be the ultimate Diablo game Unfortunately, Diablo III won't be this ideal combination, since we know that at least the atmosphere will be very different from Diablo I.
But if I have to one, I pick Diablo II. Sure, it got some things wrong, but overall it's a much more complete game. It has more diversity in skills, classes, maps (we have acts!), monsters, and more importantly items. Just the item pool alone makes the game superior to the first one. The story is also vastly better.
So all in all, the only thing Diablo I has got on its successor is the atmosphere/scenery, and even then it's not that much better. The dark castle atmosphere is better in Diablo I, sure, but remember it's basically the only atmosphere. Diablo II has outlands, castles, deserts, tombs, swamps, shrines, and the list goes on...
About skills: Diablo II has actual skills, whereas the first one basically has spells. Sure, it's nice that all 3 classes can learn them, but just think of the amount of skills (you can discard the useless ones if you want) that Diablo II has. And about difficulty? Diablo I might have been more difficult to complete, but the final challenges (Pandemonium event) offered by Diablo II were much harder than anything Diablo I had to offer.
For me, Diablo II clearly comes out on top. Don't let nostalgia get the best of you!
For reasons that Acid stated, I can't vote because it's an ambiguous question. What's the rubric? In what ways should we say one is better than the other, and to what extent can we say those features make a game better or worse?
I liked the atmosphere in Diablo I better. Does that mean that Diablo I is better, or is that singular aspect inferior to all others?
In many ways, I even think the two are so entirely different that it's impossible to compare them. Diablo I is so much more story- and speech-driven than Diablo II. Diablo II is more gameplay-driven with elements of a vague story centered not around you but often distant characters that we saw mainly in cinematics, without the hero.
"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
These are fair responses, and since I said something similar, let me see if I can't add another option to the poll...
On another note, I think D3 will offer a pretty good mix of the good from D1 and the good from D2. It looks like tougher monsters with different ways of attacking and the more robust skill system will bring back a lot of the things D2 lacked. I could be wrong, but I think this is gonna be the case.
These are fair responses, and since I said something similar, let me see if I can't add another option to the poll...
On another note, I think D3 will offer a pretty good mix of the good from D1 and the good from D2. It looks like tougher monsters with different ways of attacking and the more robust skill system will bring back a lot of the things D2 lacked. I could be wrong, but I think this is gonna be the case.
Well obviously the ideal model is to take the best from both worlds and leave out what didn't work out good.
D1 wins on atmosphere, every character being able to learn everything [or at least not having synergies] and the fun I had with TK unable to be turned off (Not saying that I want the ability to attack teammates in PvE returning, but it was somewhat fun; This was more of a coordinating with the team, "Oh I'm casting X take care" over the mic etc. Ideally enemies would enforce this aspect more so than other players, which D3 is doing)
I tried to get into D1 and the basic mechanics just felt so bad coming from D2. And when I realized I had to click for every, I cried and uninstalled, regardless of "rapid fire" programs that didn't work so well anyway.
For me, D1 just didn't even get the basics right. I just found the game annoying.
Admittedly, D1 lacks tons of little conveniences D2 had. But that's not really the core of the game. Like, you could add a lot of those conveniences of D2 to D1 and it wouldn't really change the game that much.
And that core that wouldn't be changed is what I like
It seems a lot of people would suspect D1 fans for liking it more for nostalgic reasons while people more geared toward D1 may think others don't like it just because they are too young.
I just personally enjoy D1 more. Like you said, it lacks some mechanics that makes D2 more convenient. But it's far from a deal breaker for me. I play a lot of D2 now just cause I'm bored and I'm not sure what else to do. But when I play D1, I do it more for the love of the game itself and not just cause I'm looking to kill time.
I think both games have really great stories. Each are just on a different scale. What I have noticed though is many of the younger fans who like D2 more know very little about the story. I've played with several people on Battle.net who have been playing D2 for years, yet they never actually played the entire game all the way through. I'll never forget I was playing with this one guy who joined me in a questing game and I was in the sewers in act 3 looking for Khalim's body parts and this guy was like, "I'm so confused right now..." And I was like, "About what?" And he's like, "What are we doing down here? What is this place?" I was like, "Are you serious?" He's like, "Yeah." And I'm like, "We're here to get the heart." He was like, "The what?"
So he admitted to me finally that he never did all this questing stuff. From the moment he played the game it was just getting on Battle.net, getting rushed, and looking for loot. I was slight dismayed by his attitdue.
I'll admit I do forgive a lot of D1's shortcomings out of my nostalgia for the game. But man, such nostalgia! That game had an impact on me like no other game had in a very long time. And I still think its graphics and gameplay hold up pretty well by today's standards. It's aged well, in other words.
Technically I played some D1 before D2, but really D2 is the original one for me, as I didn't play much D1 at all and at the time liked D2 way better.
It's only now that I go back and realize how much D1 had going for it. So it's not really nostalgia for me D2 is my nostalgia.
I'm like you though, I played through the game SP a few times before I went online, I've always been into the storyline. I doubt I'll play D3 coop to start with, it's easier to experience the story and atmosphere at your own pace. After I've beat normal solo I'll coop up for nightmare
D2 gave you plenty of freedom as well, specially considering you could just wander around sometimes, find some unique monsters and not have a clue about what that "dungeon entrance" called the Forbidden Tower (is it?) serves for.
Until you go deep into it, slay a mean bitch and find tons of gold.
D1 was much smaller in scope, and I like my adventures/rpgs big in scope. Guess it's a leftover from my Final Fantasy secret love.
Technically I played some D1 before D2, but really D2 is the original one for me, as I didn't play much D1 at all and at the time liked D2 way better.
It's only now that I go back and realize how much D1 had going for it. So it's not really nostalgia for me D2 is my nostalgia.
I'm like you though, I played through the game SP a few times before I went online, I've always been into the storyline. I doubt I'll play D3 coop to start with, it's easier to experience the story and atmosphere at your own pace. After I've beat normal solo I'll coop up for nightmare
I may do play through my first time in SP as well. It depends. I may go item hunting with friends but when I play quests for the first time...I guess it depends on who I'm hooked up with at the time.
When I first played D1, I remember playing on a machine with 8 megs of RAM. The game was really laggy. Then my dad purchased another 8 megs of RAM for our machine and it ran SO smoothly after that! I was just in heaven. I'd stay up so late exploring in that game. I was totally soaking up the music and the atmosphere of the game, even enjoying walking to every NPC to gossip with them. It's a funny feature now that you think about it. Gossip. Can you remember the last time in D2 you gossiped with an NPC and listened to the entire bit of their dialogue?
D1 was much smaller in scope, and I like my adventures/rpgs big in scope. Guess it's a leftover from my Final Fantasy secret love.
Interesting. The opposite of this might explain why I can't stand FF games and I think D1 is the perfect kind of isolated incident to immerse yourself in. That's what D1 felt like compared to D1. A prelude to something massive. That's what was so appealing about it. Sure, it all took place underneath this small town, but upon learning more about your enemy and finding lore books throughout the dungeons, you realize there is something much larger happening here and that was so enticing for me.
Until just hours ago, I had never beaten Diablo 1. I had played a few times long ago, and gotten pretty far, but never slew the big man. Now, after having completed the whole bloody affair, I think--despite it's numerous flaws which were improved upon in the sequel--Diablo 1 might have been the better game (at least, at it's most fundamental level).
I feel like the freedom of the skill and stat system makes for a better core than the skill trees of D2 and the modified stat roles (particularly Magic). Sure, it's imbalanced as all hell, but being able to use any skill you had enough magic points to learn makes your character feel very unique and customizable.
There are loads and loads of problems with Diablo 1 which were improved in Diablo 2, but I find myself wondering if Diablo 2 wouldn't have been a better game with something more similar to the older skill system.
Diablo 3 seems to have found a comfortable balance between the two; freely chosen skills from a preset pool of tiers. Class specific skills, and level rather than stat based, but otherwise quite similar to Diablo 1. Removing the trees and giving us this huge variety of options makes me think it will have a strong D1 vibe.
Diablo 1 also felt more threatening and strategic. Positioning mattered, and monsters were very dangerous. There was usually a number of ways to approach a problem, but you couldn't really just charge in guns blazing (most of the time). Diablo 3 also seems to be encouraging this as well, with more interesting enemy types that demand different combat strategies than "charge, spam right click."
Anyway, which do you guys think is better? To qualify and summarize my answer, I think Diablo 1 was a fundamentally better-designed game (skill/stat system, play style), but Diablo 2 was constructed and polished far better (UI, responsiveness/feel, pacing, loot variety, graphical clarity, etc).
But in terms of the dark atmosphere, enemies, music, and challenge, it would go to Diablo 1. The last level on Diablo 1 was always the most fun because of how hard it was if you weren't fully prepared. Fighting your way to each of the levers was pretty tricky.
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
A combination of both would be the ultimate Diablo game Unfortunately, Diablo III won't be this ideal combination, since we know that at least the atmosphere will be very different from Diablo I.
But if I have to one, I pick Diablo II. Sure, it got some things wrong, but overall it's a much more complete game. It has more diversity in skills, classes, maps (we have acts!), monsters, and more importantly items. Just the item pool alone makes the game superior to the first one. The story is also vastly better.
So all in all, the only thing Diablo I has got on its successor is the atmosphere/scenery, and even then it's not that much better. The dark castle atmosphere is better in Diablo I, sure, but remember it's basically the only atmosphere. Diablo II has outlands, castles, deserts, tombs, swamps, shrines, and the list goes on...
About skills: Diablo II has actual skills, whereas the first one basically has spells. Sure, it's nice that all 3 classes can learn them, but just think of the amount of skills (you can discard the useless ones if you want) that Diablo II has. And about difficulty? Diablo I might have been more difficult to complete, but the final challenges (Pandemonium event) offered by Diablo II were much harder than anything Diablo I had to offer.
For me, Diablo II clearly comes out on top. Don't let nostalgia get the best of you!
I liked the atmosphere in Diablo I better. Does that mean that Diablo I is better, or is that singular aspect inferior to all others?
In many ways, I even think the two are so entirely different that it's impossible to compare them. Diablo I is so much more story- and speech-driven than Diablo II. Diablo II is more gameplay-driven with elements of a vague story centered not around you but often distant characters that we saw mainly in cinematics, without the hero.
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
On another note, I think D3 will offer a pretty good mix of the good from D1 and the good from D2. It looks like tougher monsters with different ways of attacking and the more robust skill system will bring back a lot of the things D2 lacked. I could be wrong, but I think this is gonna be the case.
Well obviously the ideal model is to take the best from both worlds and leave out what didn't work out good.
hope d3 beat both
Haven't played one of the options = don't vote
D1 wins on atmosphere, every character being able to learn everything [or at least not having synergies] and the fun I had with TK unable to be turned off (Not saying that I want the ability to attack teammates in PvE returning, but it was somewhat fun; This was more of a coordinating with the team, "Oh I'm casting X take care" over the mic etc. Ideally enemies would enforce this aspect more so than other players, which D3 is doing)
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
For me, D1 just didn't even get the basics right. I just found the game annoying.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
And that core that wouldn't be changed is what I like
I just personally enjoy D1 more. Like you said, it lacks some mechanics that makes D2 more convenient. But it's far from a deal breaker for me. I play a lot of D2 now just cause I'm bored and I'm not sure what else to do. But when I play D1, I do it more for the love of the game itself and not just cause I'm looking to kill time.
I think both games have really great stories. Each are just on a different scale. What I have noticed though is many of the younger fans who like D2 more know very little about the story. I've played with several people on Battle.net who have been playing D2 for years, yet they never actually played the entire game all the way through. I'll never forget I was playing with this one guy who joined me in a questing game and I was in the sewers in act 3 looking for Khalim's body parts and this guy was like, "I'm so confused right now..." And I was like, "About what?" And he's like, "What are we doing down here? What is this place?" I was like, "Are you serious?" He's like, "Yeah." And I'm like, "We're here to get the heart." He was like, "The what?"
So he admitted to me finally that he never did all this questing stuff. From the moment he played the game it was just getting on Battle.net, getting rushed, and looking for loot. I was slight dismayed by his attitdue.
I'll admit I do forgive a lot of D1's shortcomings out of my nostalgia for the game. But man, such nostalgia! That game had an impact on me like no other game had in a very long time. And I still think its graphics and gameplay hold up pretty well by today's standards. It's aged well, in other words.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
It's only now that I go back and realize how much D1 had going for it. So it's not really nostalgia for me D2 is my nostalgia.
I'm like you though, I played through the game SP a few times before I went online, I've always been into the storyline. I doubt I'll play D3 coop to start with, it's easier to experience the story and atmosphere at your own pace. After I've beat normal solo I'll coop up for nightmare
D2 gave you plenty of freedom as well, specially considering you could just wander around sometimes, find some unique monsters and not have a clue about what that "dungeon entrance" called the Forbidden Tower (is it?) serves for.
Until you go deep into it, slay a mean bitch and find tons of gold.
D1 was much smaller in scope, and I like my adventures/rpgs big in scope. Guess it's a leftover from my Final Fantasy secret love.
When I first played D1, I remember playing on a machine with 8 megs of RAM. The game was really laggy. Then my dad purchased another 8 megs of RAM for our machine and it ran SO smoothly after that! I was just in heaven. I'd stay up so late exploring in that game. I was totally soaking up the music and the atmosphere of the game, even enjoying walking to every NPC to gossip with them. It's a funny feature now that you think about it. Gossip. Can you remember the last time in D2 you gossiped with an NPC and listened to the entire bit of their dialogue?
Interesting. The opposite of this might explain why I can't stand FF games and I think D1 is the perfect kind of isolated incident to immerse yourself in. That's what D1 felt like compared to D1. A prelude to something massive. That's what was so appealing about it. Sure, it all took place underneath this small town, but upon learning more about your enemy and finding lore books throughout the dungeons, you realize there is something much larger happening here and that was so enticing for me.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs