You're right, there is a power for money thing going here, and it will effect PvP, but not the way you think. The people who earn their gear are going to be extremely good at using their character from having to have farmed act 3/4 inferno for hours upon hours. On the other hand, you can ding to level 60, spend $100 and get a badass character, but you'll get DESTROYED in PvP because PvP is going to have a matchmaking system similar to Starcraft 2. This means the people who are legitimately badass and good at playing their character will have a massive advantage from those who just bought it and jumped right in.
Luckily the only thing meaningful in PvP is the lulz.
On a more serious note. At its very current state, the RMAH is utterly useless. It's filled with people that reek of greed, and think they can sell sub-par items for $20+. That's not saying people won't buy them.
But as said by others, even if Blizzard didn't make the RMAH. There would be plenty of third party websites where someone could buy items. If there's a will, there's a way.
I'm sure it will calm down after a few weeks when people realize nothing is selling; until PvP comes around I don't expect daddy to be buying too many items.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
I can't think of a single game that isnt korean that blatantly sells power for money.
Oh, and its taboo to me, why play a game thats about getting gear, and spend more money on the game to make it end faster, then punish the people who got you that gear by facerolling them in pvp ?
EVE Online has had a secure option to transform game time cards into in game money for years. You purhcase the GTC from the game maker and they handle the transfer of the GTC into the buyers account while taking the in game money and putting it in yours. They also have secure character sales for in game money. So essentially you can purchase items, money, and characters through their trading system for cold hard cash.
Nobody I know of that playes EVE has every complained about the ability to purchase stuff like this.
You're right, there is a power for money thing going here, and it will effect PvP, but not the way you think. The people who earn their gear are going to be extremely good at using their character from having to have farmed act 3/4 inferno for hours upon hours. On the other hand, you can ding to level 60, spend $100 and get a badass character, but you'll get DESTROYED in PvP because PvP is going to have a matchmaking system similar to Starcraft 2. This means the people who are legitimately badass and good at playing their character will have a massive advantage from those who just bought it and jumped right in.
Yeah, this isn't SC. Gear > Skill in Diablo in almost all circumstances.
The amount of Blizzard apologists in this thread is frightening. Diablo 3 has been a broken, bugged out disaster so far. With loads of problems, exploits and issues. It's a fucking fun game, but lets not cover our eyes and ears here please.
I think buy to win is stupid. I think it's a dumb model. People here say lots of games do it. Show me 5 successful, popular, well reviewed games that have a buy to win model. Nobody cares if some F2P failed Korean game virtually nobody plays uses the model.
Here is my concern with the RMAH. Nobody is going to be putting good items up on the normal auction house anymore. Why make 10 million gold, when you can make $250. Then in turn, spend some of the real money you made on an item you want, and or never put it back into the economy.
Another problem, is items that are going to be selling for gold. Will be selling for 10 times their normal value. Why? because gold is so cheap to buy, you will have tons of people with astronomical amounts of gold. So the items that you can buy for in-game currency, will have a super inflated price.
Now. That being said. I don't think Diablo is a "buy to win" game. However what the RMAH can do, is ruin the experience for others. Diablo 3 is about trading items, for other items or currency. That is THE ENTIRE POINT of the game. Nobody gets perfect roll gear by it dropping for them. The odds of it happening make it virtually impossible. You will have to use the auction house or trading in some way, to progress in the game. As I stated above, my concern is the best items will no longer be up for trade. They will simply be up for real money. It severely limits those who don't want to spend tons of money to easily progress.
What has me most concerned isn't this. My biggest problem is the entire ecosystem Blizzard is building. We all know Titan is their next MMO. It's been in development more then half a decade. Do you really think they designed and implemented all these systems for one game, in Diablo 3? No. It has me worried their next MMO, where buying power is a MAJOR problem, will also be buy to win. Which would be a fucking joke.
You're right, there is a power for money thing going here, and it will effect PvP, but not the way you think. The people who earn their gear are going to be extremely good at using their character from having to have farmed act 3/4 inferno for hours upon hours. On the other hand, you can ding to level 60, spend $100 and get a badass character, but you'll get DESTROYED in PvP because PvP is going to have a matchmaking system similar to Starcraft 2. This means the people who are legitimately badass and good at playing their character will have a massive advantage from those who just bought it and jumped right in.
Luckily the only thing meaningful in PvP is the lulz.
On a more serious note. At its very current state, the RMAH is utterly useless. It's filled with people that reek of greed, and think they can sell sub-par items for $20+. That's not saying people won't buy them.
But as said by others, even if Blizzard didn't make the RMAH. There would be plenty of third party websites where someone could buy items. If there's a will, there's a way.
Yes there would be third part sites. However you are over-estimating their usage. Diablo 3 has been purchased by almost 9 million people. The largest third party item trading website in the entire world for Diablo, has only 600,000 registered members. That is 600,000 since the sites creation. A majority of those probably have not visited the site in years. So although it would indeed go on, it isn't openly presented to 9 million people as an alternative to actually playing the game.
Not to mention, a majority of business that goes on, on those third part sites. Is for in game gold. Only a small percentage of transactions are for real money, or virtually representation of real money.
As long as the RMAH follows these simple rules, I'm fine with it:
A) Blizzard does not generate items to sell directly (it stays player to player)
D3 never becomes a big e-sport
The only time I have issues with "pay to win" is if A) paying is the only way to obtain that item of win and it is a game not based strictly on competitive like LoL). I would also be iffy if the company is selling the items (not another player) in a game that supposedly has an in-game trading economy. I don't mind Riot selling heroes in LoL because the game doesn't make a big deal about player driven economy.
I'm willing to bet that no single item actually SELLS for more than $10. Lawl@ all the people who are going to post their Stormshields for $200 for the next 3 weeks. The pay to win model is fine, I would be surprised if anyone actually puts more than $20 into this game.
Working a job should never be allowed to be a substitute for playing the game.
Being at work right now, this sentence sounds especially ridiculous to me. I'd much rather be home playing the game, but that's life, and if I want to use the money I made while writing this reply to reap the rewards of someone else's leisure, I see no problem with that.
P.S. I plan on never spending another cent on this game.
The amount of Blizzard apologists in this thread is frightening. Diablo 3 has been a broken, bugged out disaster so far. With loads of problems, exploits and issues. It's a fucking fun game, but lets not cover our eyes and ears here please.
I think buy to win is stupid. I think it's a dumb model. People here say lots of games do it. Show me 5 successful, popular, well reviewed games that have a buy to win model. Nobody cares if some F2P failed Korean game virtually nobody plays uses the model.
Here is my concern with the RMAH. Nobody is going to be putting good items up on the normal auction house anymore. Why make 10 million gold, when you can make $250. Then in turn, spend some of the real money you made on an item you want, and or never put it back into the economy.
Another problem, is items that are going to be selling for gold. Will be selling for 10 times their normal value. Why? because gold is so cheap to buy, you will have tons of people with astronomical amounts of gold. So the items that you can buy for in-game currency, will have a super inflated price.
Now. That being said. I don't think Diablo is a "buy to win" game. However what the RMAH can do, is ruin the experience for others. Diablo 3 is about trading items, for other items or currency. That is THE ENTIRE POINT of the game. Nobody gets perfect roll gear by it dropping for them. The odds of it happening make it virtually impossible. You will have to use the auction house or trading in some way, to progress in the game. As I stated above, my concern is the best items will no longer be up for trade. They will simply be up for real money. It severely limits those who don't want to spend tons of money to easily progress.
What has me most concerned isn't this. My biggest problem is the entire ecosystem Blizzard is building. We all know Titan is their next MMO. It's been in development more then half a decade. Do you really think they designed and implemented all these systems for one game, in Diablo 3? No. It has me worried their next MMO, where buying power is a MAJOR problem, will also be buy to win. Which would be a fucking joke.
Guess you never played D2... all of this existed before, the only difference is the masses can access the same resources that a few had before (these same people had huge direct impact on the economy and value of items). Nothing has changed, you're just aware of it now and can QQ about it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
The amount of Blizzard apologists in this thread is frightening. Diablo 3 has been a broken, bugged out disaster so far. With loads of problems, exploits and issues. It's a fucking fun game, but lets not cover our eyes and ears here please.
I think buy to win is stupid. I think it's a dumb model. People here say lots of games do it. Show me 5 successful, popular, well reviewed games that have a buy to win model. Nobody cares if some F2P failed Korean game virtually nobody plays uses the model.
Here is my concern with the RMAH. Nobody is going to be putting good items up on the normal auction house anymore. Why make 10 million gold, when you can make $250. Then in turn, spend some of the real money you made on an item you want, and or never put it back into the economy.
Another problem, is items that are going to be selling for gold. Will be selling for 10 times their normal value. Why? because gold is so cheap to buy, you will have tons of people with astronomical amounts of gold. So the items that you can buy for in-game currency, will have a super inflated price.
Now. That being said. I don't think Diablo is a "buy to win" game. However what the RMAH can do, is ruin the experience for others. Diablo 3 is about trading items, for other items or currency. That is THE ENTIRE POINT of the game. Nobody gets perfect roll gear by it dropping for them. The odds of it happening make it virtually impossible. You will have to use the auction house or trading in some way, to progress in the game. As I stated above, my concern is the best items will no longer be up for trade. They will simply be up for real money. It severely limits those who don't want to spend tons of money to easily progress.
What has me most concerned isn't this. My biggest problem is the entire ecosystem Blizzard is building. We all know Titan is their next MMO. It's been in development more then half a decade. Do you really think they designed and implemented all these systems for one game, in Diablo 3? No. It has me worried their next MMO, where buying power is a MAJOR problem, will also be buy to win. Which would be a fucking joke.
Whats truly frightening is the contents of your post. Your shit reads like a Fox News article man! Most of your opinions have nothing to even back them up. Outside of the fact that theres been some bugs and a lack of foresight in how item value would be counted by players you have nothing of worth in your entirely too long post.
Just to shorten up the drivel I'll go with your first paragraph of content. "I think buy to win is stupid. I think it's a dumb model. People here say lots of games do it. Show me 5 successful, popular, well reviewed games that have a buy to win model. Nobody cares if some F2P failed Korean game virtually nobody plays uses the model." Starting off your excursion into thought with "I think... stupid." is about as fail as you can be. Your opinion means nothing without some form of consensus or at the very least facts. Theres nothing but feeling there. You repeated that in your second sentence. Show you 5 successful, popular, well reviewed games... Depends on what we're talking about. Purely items being purchased? Show me 5 dungeon crawlers currently being played where items are the main focus. For that matter show me 5 that were successful. Or show me 5 online games. I'll show you 5 where third party companies make tons of money off of something like the RMAH not being available. Finally, some people do care for those Korean F2P games. YOU don't. Don't confuse the two. On top of this there have been a few examples of how this is a practice in some games. EVE being one of them thats actually been pretty successful.
You lack the ability to control your feelings at all. Your passionate and that can be a great thing but without a bit of self control you just vent off like a volcano. Why not try being constructive? Why not try seeing both sides of an argument before going off the deep end? Why not see where the RMAH takes us before you go into pure speculation like the rest of your post was?
I think buy to win is stupid. I think it's a dumb model. People here say lots of games do it. Show me 5 successful, popular, well reviewed games that have a buy to win model. Nobody cares if some F2P failed Korean game virtually nobody plays uses the model.
MapleStory
Raknarok Online
Runes of Magic
Lineage 2
Wizard101
All of them offer at least +XP bonus or travel movement bonus items you can buy. They are all successful, all making profits, some larger than others and they have active communities.
If you want to talk successful by number of subscribers, MapleStory has over 100 million subscribers. Lineage 2 has about 17 million. But active subscribers are harder to pin down. But Nexon who runs MapleStory (and several other games) posted a 2012 Q1 revenue earnings of US$380.3 million
You might think cash shops in games are stupid, just like I think skinny jeans are stupid. That's just an opinion, and in the US, many share your opinion, but selling items in online games are a global business and it is a proven, legimate, and wanted thing.
I think its fine. People will be paying cash to get to and farm the same things as everyone else which come patch 1.0.3 will have a easier/more fair chance at getting ilvl 63 items too.
The only time I have a issue with paying for items is when its in a highly competitive game and it disrupts that somehow or when someone buying items has a negative effect on other players. Like buying a full set of gear to raid with on WoW or some other mmo. You can buy the gear but if you can't avoid standing in the fire you're hurting everyone.
You can buy gear, but money doesn't cure stupidity and doesn't make up for a lack of skill.
Also, to all the retards that keep talking about how bad the RMAH is, are you all really that stupid. YOU CAN SELL STUFF ON IT IN ORDER TO BUY STUFF ON IT for fuck sake. I have already made 150 bucks on RMAH, I only put 10 dollars into my battle.net thing. I have about 160 bucks in it now that I can use to buy gear. You people really need to remove your heads from your asses and think before bitching about nothing.
The amount of Blizzard apologists in this thread is frightening. Diablo 3 has been a broken, bugged out disaster so far. With loads of problems, exploits and issues. It's a fucking fun game, but lets not cover our eyes and ears here please.
Here is my concern with the RMAH. Nobody is going to be putting good items up on the normal auction house anymore. Why make 10 million gold, when you can make $250. Then in turn, spend some of the real money you made on an item you want, and or never put it back into the economy.
You can buy gold on the RMAH, which creates a permeable membrance between the two auction houses. If you find an item worth 20M gold or $20, but gold sells for $1.50 per million, guess where the smart place to put it is?
Another problem, is items that are going to be selling for gold. Will be selling for 10 times their normal value. Why? because gold is so cheap to buy, you will have tons of people with astronomical amounts of gold. So the items that you can buy for in-game currency, will have a super inflated price.
The price of gold will be dictated buy the opportunity cost of arbitrage, not by gold farmers constantly trying to undercut each other.
What has me most concerned isn't this. My biggest problem is the entire ecosystem Blizzard is building. We all know Titan is their next MMO. It's been in development more then half a decade. Do you really think they designed and implemented all these systems for one game, in Diablo 3? No. It has me worried their next MMO, where buying power is a MAJOR problem, will also be buy to win. Which would be a fucking joke.
Yes. That hypothetical situation would indeed be a joke.
I was checking the RMAH to see how are the prices and what people are selling (there's actually some good items for 1.25, almost a steal). And based on the stuff I saw selling today on the RMAH, I'd say buying power is very well accepted by the community.
Good lord, I saw this 1k DPS weapon sell for 70 bucks right in front of me and was like "holy cow, I cannot believe on day 1, with gear becoming cheaper and cheaper, people are willing to pay 70 dollars for a single weapon".
I guess I just don't have that kind of money (or at least I don't think I'd be willing to spend that much on a single item) so I can't relate to it.
All i hear is whine. Not even worth the time listening to you.
We should hate the game, because you say so? that's just wierd.
maybe you should just quit the game, instead of uploading your emotional problems.
I never said I didn't enjoy the game one time, I never said you should hate the game, so... maybe you should quit the game, your comment made me think you want to .
Not sure why the OP is asking this now. Just as with 'always online', we've known RMAH was part of the game since Blizzcon 2011, or was it 2010?
If you didn't want a game with RMAH, you could have opted out by not buying D3. Simple.
I won't spend money on it, and I *would* quit immediately if they brought this to WoW (or Trion did this to Rift), but it's fine for a single-player ARPG with up-to 4 player co-op; i.e. D3.
Plenty of games do such a thing, it's not taboo. Just because a lot of games DON'T do it doesn't mean it's a rule that all games must abide by.
If they didn't let you buy things with real currency, sure as hell gold sellers would have a much larger market, buy gold, use gold to buy items more round about way to use money for power.
I can't think of a single game that isnt korean that blatantly sells power for money.
Oh, and its taboo to me, why play a game thats about getting gear, and spend more money on the game to make it end faster, then punish the people who got you that gear by facerolling them in pvp ?
Alright, they remove RMAH, so insted, you buy gold from 3rd parties or pay them for the item.... or buy a whole account with the entire item set and 30 of every gem.
In EVERY game you play, there is a method to attain power for money. Just because in this one it's being directly controlled by blizzard you decide to shit on them and say it will ruin the game.
Just like everything else, just because YOU think it's taboo =/= so.
I could say you're retarded, Doesn't make it true (not saying you are, just using it as an example, i don't mean to derail topic)
Edit ~ An example where skill > gear. WoW, you can deck someone out in full BiS gear, and they will still be utter trash. In D3 it will be to the same extent, shitters will be shitters. They will use bad skill combination and runes, use health pot at wrong time, not know how to avoid abilities.
^ +1
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I'm sure it will calm down after a few weeks when people realize nothing is selling; until PvP comes around I don't expect daddy to be buying too many items.
EVE Online has had a secure option to transform game time cards into in game money for years. You purhcase the GTC from the game maker and they handle the transfer of the GTC into the buyers account while taking the in game money and putting it in yours. They also have secure character sales for in game money. So essentially you can purchase items, money, and characters through their trading system for cold hard cash.
Nobody I know of that playes EVE has every complained about the ability to purchase stuff like this.
Yeah, this isn't SC. Gear > Skill in Diablo in almost all circumstances.
I think buy to win is stupid. I think it's a dumb model. People here say lots of games do it. Show me 5 successful, popular, well reviewed games that have a buy to win model. Nobody cares if some F2P failed Korean game virtually nobody plays uses the model.
Here is my concern with the RMAH. Nobody is going to be putting good items up on the normal auction house anymore. Why make 10 million gold, when you can make $250. Then in turn, spend some of the real money you made on an item you want, and or never put it back into the economy.
Another problem, is items that are going to be selling for gold. Will be selling for 10 times their normal value. Why? because gold is so cheap to buy, you will have tons of people with astronomical amounts of gold. So the items that you can buy for in-game currency, will have a super inflated price.
Now. That being said. I don't think Diablo is a "buy to win" game. However what the RMAH can do, is ruin the experience for others. Diablo 3 is about trading items, for other items or currency. That is THE ENTIRE POINT of the game. Nobody gets perfect roll gear by it dropping for them. The odds of it happening make it virtually impossible. You will have to use the auction house or trading in some way, to progress in the game. As I stated above, my concern is the best items will no longer be up for trade. They will simply be up for real money. It severely limits those who don't want to spend tons of money to easily progress.
What has me most concerned isn't this. My biggest problem is the entire ecosystem Blizzard is building. We all know Titan is their next MMO. It's been in development more then half a decade. Do you really think they designed and implemented all these systems for one game, in Diablo 3? No. It has me worried their next MMO, where buying power is a MAJOR problem, will also be buy to win. Which would be a fucking joke.
Yes there would be third part sites. However you are over-estimating their usage. Diablo 3 has been purchased by almost 9 million people. The largest third party item trading website in the entire world for Diablo, has only 600,000 registered members. That is 600,000 since the sites creation. A majority of those probably have not visited the site in years. So although it would indeed go on, it isn't openly presented to 9 million people as an alternative to actually playing the game.
Not to mention, a majority of business that goes on, on those third part sites. Is for in game gold. Only a small percentage of transactions are for real money, or virtually representation of real money.
A) Blizzard does not generate items to sell directly (it stays player to player)
D3 never becomes a big e-sport
The only time I have issues with "pay to win" is if A) paying is the only way to obtain that item of win and it is a game not based strictly on competitive like LoL). I would also be iffy if the company is selling the items (not another player) in a game that supposedly has an in-game trading economy. I don't mind Riot selling heroes in LoL because the game doesn't make a big deal about player driven economy.
Being at work right now, this sentence sounds especially ridiculous to me. I'd much rather be home playing the game, but that's life, and if I want to use the money I made while writing this reply to reap the rewards of someone else's leisure, I see no problem with that.
P.S. I plan on never spending another cent on this game.
Guess you never played D2... all of this existed before, the only difference is the masses can access the same resources that a few had before (these same people had huge direct impact on the economy and value of items). Nothing has changed, you're just aware of it now and can QQ about it.
Whats truly frightening is the contents of your post. Your shit reads like a Fox News article man! Most of your opinions have nothing to even back them up. Outside of the fact that theres been some bugs and a lack of foresight in how item value would be counted by players you have nothing of worth in your entirely too long post.
Just to shorten up the drivel I'll go with your first paragraph of content. "I think buy to win is stupid. I think it's a dumb model. People here say lots of games do it. Show me 5 successful, popular, well reviewed games that have a buy to win model. Nobody cares if some F2P failed Korean game virtually nobody plays uses the model." Starting off your excursion into thought with "I think... stupid." is about as fail as you can be. Your opinion means nothing without some form of consensus or at the very least facts. Theres nothing but feeling there. You repeated that in your second sentence. Show you 5 successful, popular, well reviewed games... Depends on what we're talking about. Purely items being purchased? Show me 5 dungeon crawlers currently being played where items are the main focus. For that matter show me 5 that were successful. Or show me 5 online games. I'll show you 5 where third party companies make tons of money off of something like the RMAH not being available. Finally, some people do care for those Korean F2P games. YOU don't. Don't confuse the two. On top of this there have been a few examples of how this is a practice in some games. EVE being one of them thats actually been pretty successful.
You lack the ability to control your feelings at all. Your passionate and that can be a great thing but without a bit of self control you just vent off like a volcano. Why not try being constructive? Why not try seeing both sides of an argument before going off the deep end? Why not see where the RMAH takes us before you go into pure speculation like the rest of your post was?
MapleStory
Raknarok Online
Runes of Magic
Lineage 2
Wizard101
All of them offer at least +XP bonus or travel movement bonus items you can buy. They are all successful, all making profits, some larger than others and they have active communities.
If you want to talk successful by number of subscribers, MapleStory has over 100 million subscribers. Lineage 2 has about 17 million. But active subscribers are harder to pin down. But Nexon who runs MapleStory (and several other games) posted a 2012 Q1 revenue earnings of US$380.3 million
You might think cash shops in games are stupid, just like I think skinny jeans are stupid. That's just an opinion, and in the US, many share your opinion, but selling items in online games are a global business and it is a proven, legimate, and wanted thing.
Time to jump out of your well Mr. Frog
The only time I have a issue with paying for items is when its in a highly competitive game and it disrupts that somehow or when someone buying items has a negative effect on other players. Like buying a full set of gear to raid with on WoW or some other mmo. You can buy the gear but if you can't avoid standing in the fire you're hurting everyone.
Also, to all the retards that keep talking about how bad the RMAH is, are you all really that stupid. YOU CAN SELL STUFF ON IT IN ORDER TO BUY STUFF ON IT for fuck sake. I have already made 150 bucks on RMAH, I only put 10 dollars into my battle.net thing. I have about 160 bucks in it now that I can use to buy gear. You people really need to remove your heads from your asses and think before bitching about nothing.
Sometimes I have to. It drowns out the hyperbole.
You can buy gold on the RMAH, which creates a permeable membrance between the two auction houses. If you find an item worth 20M gold or $20, but gold sells for $1.50 per million, guess where the smart place to put it is?
The price of gold will be dictated buy the opportunity cost of arbitrage, not by gold farmers constantly trying to undercut each other.
Yes. That hypothetical situation would indeed be a joke.
Good lord, I saw this 1k DPS weapon sell for 70 bucks right in front of me and was like "holy cow, I cannot believe on day 1, with gear becoming cheaper and cheaper, people are willing to pay 70 dollars for a single weapon".
I guess I just don't have that kind of money (or at least I don't think I'd be willing to spend that much on a single item) so I can't relate to it.
gave me quite a chuckle
If you didn't want a game with RMAH, you could have opted out by not buying D3. Simple.
I won't spend money on it, and I *would* quit immediately if they brought this to WoW (or Trion did this to Rift), but it's fine for a single-player ARPG with up-to 4 player co-op; i.e. D3.