Also, being able to rebuild from the ground up would lessen the need for rushing, which means less "I rush u" and "rush me plz" games spamming the list and (I think) less server demand.
Lol? All the people that currently look for/give rushes gonna log off instead of making games, or does a game without rush in the name reduce server strain?
Well, you go through more characters more quickly in Diablo than other games, I find.
Yes, this is what sets Diablo apart from a lot of other RPG's, is you can make a high level character capable of soloing hell in a few days time with no help and swap your gear from alt to alt whenever you feel like it. Sure, I'd think respecs were great if it took months to level like in some other MMO's, but when its already relatively quick untwinked, and potential to be even faster with help, respeccing is just a useless option to appease people who'd rather start a game with their superman suit then think a little.
But, on the other hand, Blizzard probably knows better than this.
Also, being able to rebuild from the ground up would lessen the need for rushing, which means less "I rush u" and "rush me plz" games spamming the list and (I think) less server demand.
This is a really good point; I think respec will allow people to focus more on building a character than just leveling a character. In my opinion rushing takes away from the enjoyment of game.
Lol? All the people that currently look for/give rushes gonna log off instead of making games, or does a game without rush in the name reduce server strain?
First off, I never said *all*. Please do not put words in my mouth We know that universal statements in any theory are prone to be destroyed, and that is why I carefully avoided using them.
Now, I know that a lot of players, myself included, make new characters because of poor skill point placement or because we want a new skill build. That would definitely be alleviated by being able to replace all of your previous skill points and you would not have to make a new character for that. Like I said, less new characters, less rushes needed, less games for those rushes.
Yes, this is what sets Diablo apart from a lot of other RPG's, is you can make a high level character capable of soloing hell in a few days time with no help
I was never able to do that and I've been playing straight since 2001. I've always needed the help of friends to beat hell.
and swap your gear from alt to alt whenever you feel like it.
I don't see how that is pertinent to this topic, but sure, why not
Sure, I'd think respecs were great if it took months to level like in some other MMO's
Diablo isn't an MMO, unless you meant to use different comparison words there.
, but when its already relatively quick untwinked, and potential to be even faster with help,
It's fast until you hit around ninety-three or so. Then it's a real pain and a heavy time investment (at least for me- and I've also seen bots, characters run on programs that keep doing the highest experience-giving areas endlessly, go for days and days without a level) and the ability to redistribute all of your character's skill points without having to re-level and go all through the game again would be a valuable asset. So:
respeccing is just a useless option
I disagree highly.
to appease people who'd rather start a game with their superman suit then think a little.
How would reevaluating your build and redistributing skill points not be "thinking"? Whether you did it by remaking your character or by redistrubuting points, you're doing the same amount of "thinking" either way. All it removes is inconvenience.
Just my opinion, of course. I don't claim to know how everything will work out, just a hunch which I think might be right.
Now, I know that a lot of players, myself included, make new characters because of poor skill point placement or because we want a new skill build. That would definitely be alleviated by being able to replace all of your previous skill points and you would not have to make a new character for that. Like I said, less new characters, less rushes needed, less games for those rushes.
thats like putting rushers out of a job, not only is the economy in recession from obama... now the diablo 2 economy is facing recession
This is a really good point; I think respec will allow people to focus more on building a character than just leveling a character. In my opinion rushing takes away from the enjoyment of game.
lol, you cant take out a paper and write down what your going to do, before you make your char?.... instead of thinking about anything, you just take guesses with no repercussions in poor choice. b/c you can always respec
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DIABLO = DEVIL its not supposed to be a nice game autostats are rediclous lack of pots is not welcome if it aint broke dont fix it! (diablo2)
Um, I'm somewhat confused. I think you stated a negative opinion about it, then repudiated that with a positive one, and then another negative one. Where exactly do you stand here? :confused:
Whether you make the decision as you level or for a respeccing, the decision is still being made and the same outcome will be resultant.
I don't see how forcing you to remake your character for a different build adds any fun to the game- it just means you have to do everything all over again. If you don't want to respec, then don't, no one is forcing you to.
First off, I never said *all*. Please do not put words in my mouth We know that universal statements in any theory are prone to be destroyed, and that is why I carefully avoided using them.
Sorry for putting words in your mouth sir, but this was still a horrible point to attempt to make, unless you meant all the people in rush games would quit d2 altogether.
I was never able to do that and I've been playing straight since 2001. I've always needed the help of friends to beat hell.
This explains a lot.
I don't see how that is pertinent to this topic, but sure, why not
In the context I explained it, its one of D2's features a lot of other games lack, along with its style of characters being throw away and easy to remake, of course it doesnt make much sense when you cant understand it in the context of which it was given. Respeccing is just stripping away one of the games innovative features.
It's fast until you hit around ninety-three or so. Then it's a real pain and a heavy time investment (at least for me- and I've also seen bots, characters run on programs that keep doing the highest experience-giving areas endlessly, go for days and days without a level) and the ability to redistribute all of your character's skill points without having to re-level and go all through the game again would be a valuable asset. So:
Leveling this high for a lot of builds is nearly a total waste of time unless your doing it for bragging rights. Regardless, I'd hope most people have enough sense to realize their character is screwed up or not what they want before they spend the time getting it this high, or higher, and remake earlier.
Just my opinion, of course. I don't claim to know how everything will work out, just a hunch which I think might be right.
I'm claiming to be right. I listed off some good reasons in earlier posts in this topic which I think most players who know enough about the game to solo a character through hell, which really isnt a huge achievement, would agree with.
I don't see how forcing you to remake your character for a different build adds any fun to the game- it just means you have to do everything all over again. If you don't want to respec, then don't, no one is forcing you to.
Yeah, it sucks for the people who keep messing up their characters over and over and over and over, but its awesome for people who rush them for forge/drops or help them level for drops.
thats like putting rushers out of a job, not only is the economy in recession from obama... now the diablo 2 economy is facing recession
Lol? All the people that currently look for/give rushes gonna log off instead of making games, or does a game without rush in the name reduce server strain?.
First off, people won't need to log off since they will have better alternatives than being rushed. Fortunately for you, I'm certain that after 2 or 3 years of being relerased, if not quicker, alot of people will still be getting rushed anyways. How many times can one person play over the entire game by himself without finding it slightly monotonous. And it's simply human nature to go around and take a shortcut.
No, I won't want to remake and respec my wiz 20 times just so I can try out all my skills. And we probably won't be able to anyways. (Repsseccing limitations, item limitations) A casual player that doesn't have all his hours everyday to spend at playing this game won't have godly gear for each and every single build of one specific char.
Quote from "nickm83" »
Yes, this is what sets Diablo apart from a lot of other RPG's, is you can make a high level character capable of soloing hell in a few days time with no help and swap your gear from alt to alt whenever you feel like it.
.
Ok, you can make a char "capable of soloing hell" but are you really going to solo hell?
Tell me, who really goes around still and solos hell just for the sake of it. (plus the fact that not all chars could, and especially not all builds) So I disagree. Thats not what made D2 special.
Everyone I knew in my playing days either was Baaling (not solo) or rushing (not solo) or trading (not solo) or PvPing (definately not solo). The only thing that could be even close to soloing is MFing. But no one MFed hard areas anyways. Did u ever see someone MF run Diablo? Or MF run Baal?
No
It was either Pindle, Mephisto or Act 1 Caves. Shenk, or that dude over him. And they Teleported there. No need for needless fighting.
Quote from "nickm83" »
Sure, I'd think respecs were great if it took months to level like in some other MMO's, but when its already relatively quick untwinked, and potential to be even faster with help, respeccing is just a useless option to appease people who'd rather start a game with their superman suit then think a little.
.
What's the difference? If it takes you only a few hours time to make a level 80 character with help from friends, why not enable respeccing for people who don't spend uncountable hours on Diablo making and remaking builds for the sake of it. Back then I did it too, but i was in high school or U and actually had the time to do it, Most D fans are actually in their late twenties now, married some have children full time jobs and bills to pay. Who the heck has time to go around and make 10 different chars just so I can try diff builds?
useless option to appease people who'd rather start a game with their superman suit then think a little
I call it usefull option for people with lives, and that wish to enjoy a game like everyone else from time to time.
If you still have that much time on your hands, then go ahead, noone is actually going to stop you....It's still going to be possible to make those 20 diff wizards, if you thought it was so crucial then keep on doing it.
If you choose not to, it's beccause you will have realized how pointless it was but still won't admit it.
If you really believe however that for you it was one of THE most important factors, then no one will stop you from remaking your cchars as much as you want.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Diablo 3, Hottest shit to happen to 21st Century Entertainment since Georges "Rush" St-Pierre.______________ --------~~Mattheo's Quote of the day~~---------
----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums -------- Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
In the context I explained it, its one of D2's features a lot of other games lack, along with its style of characters being throw away and easy to remake, of course it doesnt make much sense when you cant understand it in the context of which it was given. Respeccing is just stripping away one of the games innovative features.
Its a flaw. Its bad game design. Its not a feature.
Quote from "nickm83" »
This explains a lot.
It explains that he doesn't just look up the best build on the internet and get away with it. The game promotes you in absolutely no way to actually make or attempt a build, and if you mess up you are punished and may never get through hell. Its quite ridiculous and such an obvious flaw in the game.
Sorry for putting words in your mouth sir, but this was still a horrible point to attempt to make, unless you meant all the people in rush games would quit d2 altogether.
You have absolutely no factual basis or evidence in that argument. I never, at any point, even hinted that rushers or rushees would quit the game. I said that rushing would not be necessary and would not need to be continually exploited to play the game. I do not see how you drew that conclusion at all.
This explains a lot.
See above, with the addition that you're insulting me.
In the context I explained it, its one of D2's features a lot of other games lack, along with its style of characters being throw away and easy to remake, of course it doesnt make much sense when you cant understand it in the context of which it was given. Respeccing is just stripping away one of the games innovative features.
The things you listed there are game flaws. No one should ever want to throw away a character, they should be sufficiently amused by them to want to continue playing them, since it's a game. Respeccing is fixing a game flaw. It's allowing the player to continue to use the same character over and over without going through minute and thoroughly redundant and boring things like rushing. It gives the player more power and more control.
Leveling this high for a lot of builds is nearly a total waste of time unless your doing it for bragging rights.
It wouldn't be a waste of time if you knew that if you hit level ninety-nine, you could remake your skill build. You wouldn't have to reinvent the wheel every time and then say, "What's the use in getting to ninety-nine, I'm probably going to just make a new character, anyway." Instead, those later levels would be more valuable because you would know you will always be able to use those skill points over again if you want a different build or messed up majorly along the lines.
And on messing up a build, making those mistakes permanent is a completely idiotic game flaw. It makes new players prone to grief because they are playing a game that does not assist them at all in their character's design ("Here's a bunch of skills, now go at it! Don't make a mistake, though, even though you know nothing- you won't be able to fix it!") and those mistakes are permanent. Respeccing would remove this flaw.
Regardless, I'd hope most people have enough sense to realize their character is screwed up or not what they want before they spend the time getting it this high, or higher, and remake earlier.
Not every player makes Diablo their life so that they can think about it all the time. Not every player knows all the good combinations of stats, equipment, and skills from the beginning and knows exactly what to do- only people who have been playing for a long time and have had to redo a bunch of characters in the long-term to learn it all know those things.
I'm claiming to be right. I listed off some good reasons in earlier posts in this topic
I must have missed them. Your argument that I quoted didn't contain much of anything besides "this is dumb" rationale. I'll go and search through the rest of the thread for it, then.
which I think most players who know enough about the game to solo a character through hell, which really isnt a huge achievement, would agree with.
Not all of the characters can solo Hell efficiently because of basic things that Blizzard threw in to the game (dual immunities, anyone?). Not everyone is a l33t g4m3r and has all the wisdom in the world to predict all the gear and skill combinations later in the game. The option should be there for those who need it. If you don't need it, don't use it.
Yeah, it sucks for the people who keep messing up their characters over and over and over and over, but its awesome for people who rush them for forge/drops or help them level for drops.
They can still full-well do that, no one is stopping them. It's making the game more fair for the casual user and the budding player. At some point a character will always have to be made for it to be played in the first place. However, I don't see why Blizzard should allow people to continue to take advantage of the game in unintended ways.
Its a flaw. Its bad game design. Its not a feature.
Oh, I wasn't aware all gear being able to be switched from character to character was a flaw and bad game design.
It explains that he doesn't just look up the best build on the internet and get away with it. The game promotes you in absolutely no way to actually make or attempt a build, and if you mess up you are punished and may never get through hell. Its quite ridiculous and such an obvious flaw in the game.
I've always tweaked and retweaked characters, and never felt punished for improving them. Your never gonna have a "perfect" spec, your gonna have specs that work for what you want them to do. Some are great for pvm, some pvp, some decent all round, and some built for a specific purpose, like killing ubers. This game promotes you to attempt and experiment with builds by allowing you to level so fast.
First off, people won't need to log off since they will have better alternatives than being rushed. Fortunately for you, I'm certain that after 2 or 3 years of being relerased, if not quicker, alot of people will still be getting rushed anyways. How many times can one person play over the entire game by himself without finding it slightly monotonous. And it's simply human nature to go around and take a shortcut.
It was sarcasm, stating that its not going to lessen server loads at all because unless everyone looking to rush or be rushed decides to log off, they will be in other games. Understand or need more detail?
Ok, you can make a char "capable of soloing hell" but are you really going to solo hell?
No sir, I'm going to make that character that can solo hell, be able to stomp hell, and I'm going to run chaos runs or baal runs in which people with weaker characters will join, thus increasing my mf'ing efficiency, as people with either crappy, or characters on the lower level end of the spectrum generally have a hard time staying alive on the front lines to get first shot at much loot. I mentioned this in a previous post in this thread, please scroll back and check it out?
MF run Diablo? Or MF run Baal?
Yes, and yes. Unless your not aloud to mf and exp at the same time.
If you choose not to, it's beccause you will have realized how pointless it was but still won't admit it.
Honestly I won't get much use out of it as I just plan my characters out ahead of time. Only time I might is if I want to level a pvp character, I'll level as a generic pvm build thats more efficient at leveling, like I also mentioned in a previous thread, but I guess nobody bothers to read anything before chosing to jump on someone who disagrees with them.
You have absolutely no factual basis or evidence in that argument. I never, at any point, even hinted that rushers or rushees would quit the game. I said that rushing would not be necessary and would not need to be continually exploited to play the game. I do not see how you drew that conclusion at all.
The only way people not being in rush games would reduce server strain is if they logged off. You said lack of rush games would reduce server strain. Am I missing something?
The things you listed there are game flaws.
Wow this game certainly has a lot of major design flaws then. Wonder how such a flawed design could make for a popular game for such a long time.
It wouldn't be a waste of time if you knew that if you hit level ninety-nine, you could remake your skill build.
I'd love it if respecs were level 99 only. This way they'd only apply to about .01% of the diablo 2 population. Besides, level 93 is what, about 1% of the way to level 99? I think I'd just remake when I realized I had a messed up 93 instead of waiting to get all the way to level 99.
Not all of the characters can solo Hell efficiently because of basic things that Blizzard threw in to the game (dual immunities, anyone?). Not everyone is a l33t g4m3r and has all the wisdom in the world to predict all the gear and skill combinations later in the game. The option should be there for those who need it. If you don't need it, don't use it.
Yes, which like I previously mentioned, is awesome about this game. Not everyone character is going to be awesome at everything. Maybe your foh pally sucks for pvm but is gonna do well in pvp, and your summoner sucks for pvp but will do well in pvm. I've had awesome fire sorcs that were near useless for hell pvm, but were amazing in pvp games. I didn't cry about how unfair it was, I made friends to run with and leeched exp games off them, and helped them out with their characters that were harder to level. Again like I previously mentioned, why would anyone make anything other then one of the better pvm builds for leveling a character? What incentive do I have to level as an FoH pally when I can level as hammers and respec. It just leads me to the logical conclusion that one of the downsides of respeccing is going to cause pub pvm games to be full of identical builds. Doubt you will ever see anyone leveling an auradin as an auradin again, all auradins will be respecced hdins.
I'll go and search through the rest of the thread for it, then.
lol, you cant take out a paper and write down what your going to do, before you make your char?.... instead of thinking about anything, you just take guesses with no repercussions in poor choice. b/c you can always respec
Actually, I use builds that are already proven; right now. What my point was is that it's my opinion with respecing it will open up more options for trying different, unique builds without fear of ruining a character.
What makes you think that everyone who is for respecing does not know how the game works or how to make a build properly?
The game promotes you in absolutely no way to actually make or attempt a build, and if you mess up you are punished and may never get through hell. Its quite ridiculous and such an obvious flaw in the game.
if you mess up you are "punished" and may never get through hell, ok.
but, if you succeed and come up with a novel and successful build, it is all the more fulfilling because of the consequence (potentially wasting your time on a character that is useless for whatever task).
the darker the dark the brighter the bright, you know?
it follows that lessening the darkness dims the light.
all i'm saying is that because of the current risk involved, the reward for experimenting and creating something unique and viable is greater.
Quote from "Ivaron" »
And the fact that many people on this forum seem to be hoping for a system where it's easy and costs nothing to respec, or it costs the wrong thing, also makes me skeptical.
it's a terrible feeling when you realize that your opinions and values are at odds with the majority of your community. because blizzard will, of course, attempt to please the majority.
(sometimes it pains me, but there are a lot of different types of diablo fans and we're all equal.. knowledge of the game, dedication to it, or love for it doesn't increase the value of one of our opinions.)
anyway... i've found a couple ways i won't hate respecs:
1) it's nonladder only AND with a significant cost or limitations
2) respecs have permanent consequences (they reduce the level cap that your character can reach, it costs 20 skills to get 18 back to reassign, etc)
so that basically if you respec, you've reduced your character, and if you don't then you are better for it.
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they'll never see me coming.. life is a sequence of tragedies, inconsistent only by fleeting, elusive moments of pleasure,
serving only to ensure absolute vulnerability to the pain of their inevitable absence.
Well said blood-doll, I couldn't agree with you more. Guess I kinda knew the game would be ruined when people started crying for respecs and bigger stashes because the games not fair blah blah wahh wahh and I shouldnt have to do this or do that, but I was living in denial until this horrible announcement made respecs official.
Oh well, at least private servers will be more popular after this patch.
hey odon
my main reasons for not liking it were on page 2 or something:
Quote from "blood-doll" »
removing the consequence from the choice devalues it, and something important to the identity of the character is lost.
those two main reasons (CHARACTER IDENTITY and MEANINGFUL CHOICES) are terribly important for me, but they must not matter much to blizzard (or the playerbase majority they cater to).
i say that because in WoW soon there will be only one choice that is permanent, and that's class.
every single other choice can be changed: talents, gender, name, appearance, realm, and soon race and faction.
(i said that on the official forum as well, but i thought it might be worth repeating since it pretty much shows that what i value isn't something deemed valuable -_-)
but anyway just have to see how they implement it.
it's bittersweet but in a way i'm glad that fellow fans (like you) may be getting what they want even if i dislike it.
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they'll never see me coming.. life is a sequence of tragedies, inconsistent only by fleeting, elusive moments of pleasure,
serving only to ensure absolute vulnerability to the pain of their inevitable absence.
hey odon
my main reasons for not liking it were on page 2 or something:
those two main reasons (CHARACTER IDENTITY and MEANINGFUL CHOICES) are terribly important for me, but they must not matter much to blizzard (or the playerbase majority they cater to).
i say that because in WoW soon there will be only one choice that is permanent, and that's class.
every single other choice can be changed: talents, gender, name, appearance, realm, and soon race and faction.
(i said that on the official forum as well, but i thought it might be worth repeating since it pretty much shows that what i value isn't something deemed valuable -_-)
but anyway just have to see how they implement it.
it's bittersweet but in a way i'm glad that fellow fans (like you) may be getting what they want even if i dislike it.
Well, in WoW there is little to no variations possible that work in a tree. So even if they had no respec, no one would really be unique anyway.
Hey odon, sorry if this is a bit dissapointing, but its a lot harder in this game to get duel worthy gear then it is to come up with a duel worthy spec if your goals to pvp.
I guess I overlooked gear as a factor in this game because I was so shocked at how awful respeccing will be, but if you know the economy of the game and make good trades, you can build game wealth just off trading. If not you'll just end up with a crappliy geared character that might have a spec slightly better then your original idea if you manage to screw up a cookie cutter build with synergies that practically map a lot of builds out for you.
As a side note, just seems to me a lot of people want an EZPWN button to make everything easier for them. If this sounds like you, then you might find it worth you while to google d2pk and check it out. You can level to 99 in less then a minute and npcs in town sell high runes and perfect gear.
That's exactly what I was telling them about. Most of us original D1 players are already late 20's early 30's , married, have kids, etc. We have max 10 hours to play a week max. And even those I have to double check with my wife. We need a game that has the option to give us faithful players a fighting chance against those kids out there playing 40 to 60 hours a week, unless the D3 community be split in the middle.
I think that most of those against the change are just pissed off that people like us will have a chance to make a great character without wasting half our waking hours doing it. I think however that there should be a part of the character that shows if it has been respecced this way the people who choose not to use not to use it, for whatever reason it might be, have bragging rights over those who did. And I also agree on the limiting of respeccing. Its not because I like the idea that I think it should be abused.
Quote from "nickm83" »
Hey odon, sorry if this is a bit dissapointing,
As a side note, just seems to me a lot of people want an EZPWN button to make everything easier for them. If this sounds like you, then you might find it worth you while to google d2pk and check it out. You can level to 99 in less then a minute and npcs in town sell high runes and perfect gear.
Nothing like exagerating when someone is trying to make a valid point. It's not because some of us don't have infinite hours to spend that we don't want to enjoy the same game as everyone. I would hate to have to resort to such filthy mods to help me go through a game.... Disgusting
Funny that you know so much about it though...mister die hard solo hell no respeccing.
Guess even players like you get bored of remaking thousands of builds the long way...
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Diablo 3, Hottest shit to happen to 21st Century Entertainment since Georges "Rush" St-Pierre.______________ --------~~Mattheo's Quote of the day~~---------
----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums -------- Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
Nothing like exagerating when someone is trying to make a valid point. It's not because some of us don't have infinite hours to spend that we don't want to enjoy the same game as everyone. I would hate to have to resort to such filthy mods to help me go through a game.... Disgusting
Funny that you know so much about it though...mister die hard solo hell no respeccing.
Guess even players like you get bored of remaking thousands of builds the long way...
Actually its a private server with different exp and drop rates for items. Its in no way cheating or giving you an advantage over anyone else on the server as they all have access to the same drops and exp rates. All it does is lets you mess around with high level amazingly geared characters without putting much time into it, which you yourself said you did not have a lot of. No need to get snippy when I was just suggesting a server a you'd probably enjoy buddy.
Otherwise why should the game have to be dumbed down for everyone when theres nothing wrong with it if some people can pwn hell and be competitive in pvp and others just cant becuase they can't figure it out. Contrary to your belief 10 hours a week is enough to do so. Sure you won't be on top of the ladder when it resets, one of the first through hell, or pwn any pvp games in the first week, but you'd get there.
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Lol? All the people that currently look for/give rushes gonna log off instead of making games, or does a game without rush in the name reduce server strain?
Yes, this is what sets Diablo apart from a lot of other RPG's, is you can make a high level character capable of soloing hell in a few days time with no help and swap your gear from alt to alt whenever you feel like it. Sure, I'd think respecs were great if it took months to level like in some other MMO's, but when its already relatively quick untwinked, and potential to be even faster with help, respeccing is just a useless option to appease people who'd rather start a game with their superman suit then think a little.
Doubt it, or it'd never make it into the game.
This is a really good point; I think respec will allow people to focus more on building a character than just leveling a character. In my opinion rushing takes away from the enjoyment of game.
First off, I never said *all*. Please do not put words in my mouth We know that universal statements in any theory are prone to be destroyed, and that is why I carefully avoided using them.
Now, I know that a lot of players, myself included, make new characters because of poor skill point placement or because we want a new skill build. That would definitely be alleviated by being able to replace all of your previous skill points and you would not have to make a new character for that. Like I said, less new characters, less rushes needed, less games for those rushes.
I was never able to do that and I've been playing straight since 2001. I've always needed the help of friends to beat hell.
I don't see how that is pertinent to this topic, but sure, why not
Diablo isn't an MMO, unless you meant to use different comparison words there.
It's fast until you hit around ninety-three or so. Then it's a real pain and a heavy time investment (at least for me- and I've also seen bots, characters run on programs that keep doing the highest experience-giving areas endlessly, go for days and days without a level) and the ability to redistribute all of your character's skill points without having to re-level and go all through the game again would be a valuable asset. So:
I disagree highly.
How would reevaluating your build and redistributing skill points not be "thinking"? Whether you did it by remaking your character or by redistrubuting points, you're doing the same amount of "thinking" either way. All it removes is inconvenience.
Just my opinion, of course. I don't claim to know how everything will work out, just a hunch which I think might be right.
thats like putting rushers out of a job, not only is the economy in recession from obama... now the diablo 2 economy is facing recession
This is a really good point; I think respec will allow people to focus more on building a character than just leveling a character. In my opinion rushing takes away from the enjoyment of game.
lol, you cant take out a paper and write down what your going to do, before you make your char?.... instead of thinking about anything, you just take guesses with no repercussions in poor choice. b/c you can always respec
its not supposed to be a nice game
autostats are rediclous
lack of pots is not welcome
if it aint broke dont fix it! (diablo2)
Whether you make the decision as you level or for a respeccing, the decision is still being made and the same outcome will be resultant.
I don't see how forcing you to remake your character for a different build adds any fun to the game- it just means you have to do everything all over again. If you don't want to respec, then don't, no one is forcing you to.
Sorry for putting words in your mouth sir, but this was still a horrible point to attempt to make, unless you meant all the people in rush games would quit d2 altogether.
This explains a lot.
In the context I explained it, its one of D2's features a lot of other games lack, along with its style of characters being throw away and easy to remake, of course it doesnt make much sense when you cant understand it in the context of which it was given. Respeccing is just stripping away one of the games innovative features.
Leveling this high for a lot of builds is nearly a total waste of time unless your doing it for bragging rights. Regardless, I'd hope most people have enough sense to realize their character is screwed up or not what they want before they spend the time getting it this high, or higher, and remake earlier.
I'm claiming to be right. I listed off some good reasons in earlier posts in this topic which I think most players who know enough about the game to solo a character through hell, which really isnt a huge achievement, would agree with.
Yeah, it sucks for the people who keep messing up their characters over and over and over and over, but its awesome for people who rush them for forge/drops or help them level for drops.
Oh I get it, respecs are a form of welfare?
First off, people won't need to log off since they will have better alternatives than being rushed. Fortunately for you, I'm certain that after 2 or 3 years of being relerased, if not quicker, alot of people will still be getting rushed anyways. How many times can one person play over the entire game by himself without finding it slightly monotonous. And it's simply human nature to go around and take a shortcut.
No, I won't want to remake and respec my wiz 20 times just so I can try out all my skills. And we probably won't be able to anyways. (Repsseccing limitations, item limitations) A casual player that doesn't have all his hours everyday to spend at playing this game won't have godly gear for each and every single build of one specific char.
Ok, you can make a char "capable of soloing hell" but are you really going to solo hell?
Tell me, who really goes around still and solos hell just for the sake of it. (plus the fact that not all chars could, and especially not all builds) So I disagree. Thats not what made D2 special.
Everyone I knew in my playing days either was Baaling (not solo) or rushing (not solo) or trading (not solo) or PvPing (definately not solo). The only thing that could be even close to soloing is MFing. But no one MFed hard areas anyways. Did u ever see someone MF run Diablo? Or MF run Baal?
No
It was either Pindle, Mephisto or Act 1 Caves. Shenk, or that dude over him. And they Teleported there. No need for needless fighting.
What's the difference? If it takes you only a few hours time to make a level 80 character with help from friends, why not enable respeccing for people who don't spend uncountable hours on Diablo making and remaking builds for the sake of it. Back then I did it too, but i was in high school or U and actually had the time to do it, Most D fans are actually in their late twenties now, married some have children full time jobs and bills to pay. Who the heck has time to go around and make 10 different chars just so I can try diff builds?
I call it usefull option for people with lives, and that wish to enjoy a game like everyone else from time to time.
If you still have that much time on your hands, then go ahead, noone is actually going to stop you....It's still going to be possible to make those 20 diff wizards, if you thought it was so crucial then keep on doing it.
If you choose not to, it's beccause you will have realized how pointless it was but still won't admit it.
If you really believe however that for you it was one of THE most important factors, then no one will stop you from remaking your cchars as much as you want.
--------~~Mattheo's Quote of the day~~---------
----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums --------
Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
Its a flaw. Its bad game design. Its not a feature.
It explains that he doesn't just look up the best build on the internet and get away with it. The game promotes you in absolutely no way to actually make or attempt a build, and if you mess up you are punished and may never get through hell. Its quite ridiculous and such an obvious flaw in the game.
You have absolutely no factual basis or evidence in that argument. I never, at any point, even hinted that rushers or rushees would quit the game. I said that rushing would not be necessary and would not need to be continually exploited to play the game. I do not see how you drew that conclusion at all.
See above, with the addition that you're insulting me.
The things you listed there are game flaws. No one should ever want to throw away a character, they should be sufficiently amused by them to want to continue playing them, since it's a game. Respeccing is fixing a game flaw. It's allowing the player to continue to use the same character over and over without going through minute and thoroughly redundant and boring things like rushing. It gives the player more power and more control.
It wouldn't be a waste of time if you knew that if you hit level ninety-nine, you could remake your skill build. You wouldn't have to reinvent the wheel every time and then say, "What's the use in getting to ninety-nine, I'm probably going to just make a new character, anyway." Instead, those later levels would be more valuable because you would know you will always be able to use those skill points over again if you want a different build or messed up majorly along the lines.
And on messing up a build, making those mistakes permanent is a completely idiotic game flaw. It makes new players prone to grief because they are playing a game that does not assist them at all in their character's design ("Here's a bunch of skills, now go at it! Don't make a mistake, though, even though you know nothing- you won't be able to fix it!") and those mistakes are permanent. Respeccing would remove this flaw.
Not every player makes Diablo their life so that they can think about it all the time. Not every player knows all the good combinations of stats, equipment, and skills from the beginning and knows exactly what to do- only people who have been playing for a long time and have had to redo a bunch of characters in the long-term to learn it all know those things.
I must have missed them. Your argument that I quoted didn't contain much of anything besides "this is dumb" rationale. I'll go and search through the rest of the thread for it, then.
Not all of the characters can solo Hell efficiently because of basic things that Blizzard threw in to the game (dual immunities, anyone?). Not everyone is a l33t g4m3r and has all the wisdom in the world to predict all the gear and skill combinations later in the game. The option should be there for those who need it. If you don't need it, don't use it.
They can still full-well do that, no one is stopping them. It's making the game more fair for the casual user and the budding player. At some point a character will always have to be made for it to be played in the first place. However, I don't see why Blizzard should allow people to continue to take advantage of the game in unintended ways.
I've always tweaked and retweaked characters, and never felt punished for improving them. Your never gonna have a "perfect" spec, your gonna have specs that work for what you want them to do. Some are great for pvm, some pvp, some decent all round, and some built for a specific purpose, like killing ubers. This game promotes you to attempt and experiment with builds by allowing you to level so fast.
It was sarcasm, stating that its not going to lessen server loads at all because unless everyone looking to rush or be rushed decides to log off, they will be in other games. Understand or need more detail?
No sir, I'm going to make that character that can solo hell, be able to stomp hell, and I'm going to run chaos runs or baal runs in which people with weaker characters will join, thus increasing my mf'ing efficiency, as people with either crappy, or characters on the lower level end of the spectrum generally have a hard time staying alive on the front lines to get first shot at much loot. I mentioned this in a previous post in this thread, please scroll back and check it out?
Yes, and yes. Unless your not aloud to mf and exp at the same time.
Honestly I won't get much use out of it as I just plan my characters out ahead of time. Only time I might is if I want to level a pvp character, I'll level as a generic pvm build thats more efficient at leveling, like I also mentioned in a previous thread, but I guess nobody bothers to read anything before chosing to jump on someone who disagrees with them.
The only way people not being in rush games would reduce server strain is if they logged off. You said lack of rush games would reduce server strain. Am I missing something?
Wow this game certainly has a lot of major design flaws then. Wonder how such a flawed design could make for a popular game for such a long time.
I'd love it if respecs were level 99 only. This way they'd only apply to about .01% of the diablo 2 population. Besides, level 93 is what, about 1% of the way to level 99? I think I'd just remake when I realized I had a messed up 93 instead of waiting to get all the way to level 99.
Yes, which like I previously mentioned, is awesome about this game. Not everyone character is going to be awesome at everything. Maybe your foh pally sucks for pvm but is gonna do well in pvp, and your summoner sucks for pvp but will do well in pvm. I've had awesome fire sorcs that were near useless for hell pvm, but were amazing in pvp games. I didn't cry about how unfair it was, I made friends to run with and leeched exp games off them, and helped them out with their characters that were harder to level. Again like I previously mentioned, why would anyone make anything other then one of the better pvm builds for leveling a character? What incentive do I have to level as an FoH pally when I can level as hammers and respec. It just leads me to the logical conclusion that one of the downsides of respeccing is going to cause pub pvm games to be full of identical builds. Doubt you will ever see anyone leveling an auradin as an auradin again, all auradins will be respecced hdins.
Thank you.
Actually, I use builds that are already proven; right now. What my point was is that it's my opinion with respecing it will open up more options for trying different, unique builds without fear of ruining a character.
What makes you think that everyone who is for respecing does not know how the game works or how to make a build properly?
but, if you succeed and come up with a novel and successful build, it is all the more fulfilling because of the consequence (potentially wasting your time on a character that is useless for whatever task).
the darker the dark the brighter the bright, you know?
it follows that lessening the darkness dims the light.
all i'm saying is that because of the current risk involved, the reward for experimenting and creating something unique and viable is greater.
it's a terrible feeling when you realize that your opinions and values are at odds with the majority of your community. because blizzard will, of course, attempt to please the majority.
(sometimes it pains me, but there are a lot of different types of diablo fans and we're all equal.. knowledge of the game, dedication to it, or love for it doesn't increase the value of one of our opinions.)
anyway... i've found a couple ways i won't hate respecs:
1) it's nonladder only AND with a significant cost or limitations
2) respecs have permanent consequences (they reduce the level cap that your character can reach, it costs 20 skills to get 18 back to reassign, etc)
so that basically if you respec, you've reduced your character, and if you don't then you are better for it.
they'll never see me coming..
life is a sequence of tragedies, inconsistent only by fleeting, elusive moments of pleasure,
serving only to ensure absolute vulnerability to the pain of their inevitable absence.
Oh well, at least private servers will be more popular after this patch.
my main reasons for not liking it were on page 2 or something:
those two main reasons (CHARACTER IDENTITY and MEANINGFUL CHOICES) are terribly important for me, but they must not matter much to blizzard (or the playerbase majority they cater to).
i say that because in WoW soon there will be only one choice that is permanent, and that's class.
every single other choice can be changed: talents, gender, name, appearance, realm, and soon race and faction.
(i said that on the official forum as well, but i thought it might be worth repeating since it pretty much shows that what i value isn't something deemed valuable -_-)
but anyway just have to see how they implement it.
it's bittersweet but in a way i'm glad that fellow fans (like you) may be getting what they want even if i dislike it.
they'll never see me coming..
life is a sequence of tragedies, inconsistent only by fleeting, elusive moments of pleasure,
serving only to ensure absolute vulnerability to the pain of their inevitable absence.
Well, in WoW there is little to no variations possible that work in a tree. So even if they had no respec, no one would really be unique anyway.
I guess I overlooked gear as a factor in this game because I was so shocked at how awful respeccing will be, but if you know the economy of the game and make good trades, you can build game wealth just off trading. If not you'll just end up with a crappliy geared character that might have a spec slightly better then your original idea if you manage to screw up a cookie cutter build with synergies that practically map a lot of builds out for you.
As a side note, just seems to me a lot of people want an EZPWN button to make everything easier for them. If this sounds like you, then you might find it worth you while to google d2pk and check it out. You can level to 99 in less then a minute and npcs in town sell high runes and perfect gear.
I think that most of those against the change are just pissed off that people like us will have a chance to make a great character without wasting half our waking hours doing it. I think however that there should be a part of the character that shows if it has been respecced this way the people who choose not to use not to use it, for whatever reason it might be, have bragging rights over those who did. And I also agree on the limiting of respeccing. Its not because I like the idea that I think it should be abused.
Nothing like exagerating when someone is trying to make a valid point. It's not because some of us don't have infinite hours to spend that we don't want to enjoy the same game as everyone. I would hate to have to resort to such filthy mods to help me go through a game.... Disgusting
Funny that you know so much about it though...mister die hard solo hell no respeccing.
Guess even players like you get bored of remaking thousands of builds the long way...
--------~~Mattheo's Quote of the day~~---------
----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums --------
Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
Actually its a private server with different exp and drop rates for items. Its in no way cheating or giving you an advantage over anyone else on the server as they all have access to the same drops and exp rates. All it does is lets you mess around with high level amazingly geared characters without putting much time into it, which you yourself said you did not have a lot of. No need to get snippy when I was just suggesting a server a you'd probably enjoy buddy.
Otherwise why should the game have to be dumbed down for everyone when theres nothing wrong with it if some people can pwn hell and be competitive in pvp and others just cant becuase they can't figure it out. Contrary to your belief 10 hours a week is enough to do so. Sure you won't be on top of the ladder when it resets, one of the first through hell, or pwn any pvp games in the first week, but you'd get there.