1. If you want to make a new character and stick with specific skills, then do that? What is the problem? Why do you need to make 50000 new characters? That's stupid. But it's there for u if u want. You can make 10 characters right now, so do that. You can always delete your char if u dont like it and start over, or u can strip all your skills. Start a new character and do another build if u want.. do that.
2. Levelning up, you gain, more powerful spells, powerful rune effects and new items, new powerful spells, just cos u dont have a little button to click, doesn't mean anything..
All your stuff increases when u level-up. That's nice and powerful. Just go look in your inv.
1. There is really no need at all to make a new character since you could only make a lvl 60 character and switch skills. This is not about stupidity or need to make 50000 chars, it is about relevant choices and about the developing of a character to try a build. Now you can try a build simply changing the lvl 60 character skills. It's easier, as using a trainer and making a level 99 character and choosing the skill point allocation also was, but is not as fun as starting over and FEELING the build in every part of the game. I always loved the first 20-30 levels far more than the last ones.
2. I don't know, does that feel relevant to you? A completely automatic level-up? The level-up is the climax of every RPG, it can't go like "Oh, another level, what can I do now? Oh, i am stronger, that's all.".
I am not trolling nor am saying that the system will be bad. I am just trying to grasp how this system deals with the aspects I've risen, that are very important to me.
Tell me then.
1. There is no need? Who says that? YOU create your OWN needs. That statement from you is weird. You do what you want. Why you do WANT to have a restriction to HAVE to make a new character everytime you wanna try something new or just a little different? That's insanely stupid and not fun.
If you WANT to make a new character and start fresh.. then do it ? What's stopping you? Nobody. Just never respec or change skills and start fresh 1-60.. same build.. try it.. what is wrong with that?
Just cos blizzard doesn't MAKE you do it anymore, doesn't mean it wrong or bad.
2. So clicking 5 times on a little button is very important to you? In diablo 2, raising vitality 5 points didn't matter AT ALL really... the small attribute points was skewed, and it was just plain a stupid design. Besides, it wasnt even every level that u got to spend attribute points and get new skills... in diablo 2, you just "rose" in level as well.. but u unlocked new stuff sometimes.. it was good.
In diablo 3, you fight and when u get new lvl.. ding.. u know u got alot of new stuff... newer spells, more attributes, more stuff to explore and gather.. if u want to feel powerful, then just click randomly on your scree nand imagine your stats rising lols
1. I believe roger is talking about incentive, as with the new system, there is less incentive to create a new character with a different focus. Since your original character have already been built, quests done, geared up, and can change its skills (which are maxed) easily. Even though a lot of us, like to create new character and play for the experience. there are many constraints in life, and if there's less incentive for gamers to do it, then people would rather not do it at all.
2. Fighting monsters is a major part of D3, but why do we fight monsters, to level up, to find items. And it is this progression of your character that is the key to these games.
Customization debate aside, The following is what i posted in another post earlier:
"...what i am concerned about this choice is its affect on the playthrough experience, as well as the player's 'attachment' towards the character. Back a while ago when blizzard announced their level 60 cap, their explanation was to make every level feel significant. And i feel that skill points is a part of this 'significance,' a reward you receive for leveling up. even though just a psychological thing, but it does make you feel more weight on each skill point's distribution, and feel that you are more 'involved' in your character's progression.
Now with the skills scaling to your level or weapon dmg, once you have tried all the skills and selected the 6 skills you want, you are kind of done with it from level 30 (or 24) and beyond, since all you need to do now is to level up, and your skills would be stronger. which i think kind of 'detaches' you from your character and gameplay experience. I know people can say that "well with people following a specific build, skill choices arent really a big part of ongoing experience." well yes, but for one that is caused by DII's old system that we were hoping Blizzard introduce a new mechanism to fix, and second you still get to decide your skill point every level and probably decide on a specific path you would like to follow.
People can approach a build differently, for example you may want to orient or max skill X before skill Y. if you know the area have some high dmg monsters, you may want to put more skills in your defensive skills for now, and catch up your attack skills later on. Or when you play in a team, you may want to focus on certain skills that will compliment other team members depending on their current skill choices. this type of strategic thinking and constant balancing of your character to current needs i say is part of the experience with action RPGs."
I'm slowly getting over the news and accepting the good side of this however I have a hard time overcoming one issue: Levelling up loses its reward. Attribute points allocate automatically, skill points are gone...past normal after all the skill slots are opened levelling up pretty much only increases the power of your character but doesn't offer you any choice, any tangible new reward for your hard earned experience. Yes you can get better gear but that might not prove to be true until something better actually drops for you which might happen like an hour later. The level cap has been decreased to 60 so that levelling up has more impact to it since there were less skill points with more powerful rewards. Now there are no skill points...and no reward for that hard earned level.
there is in fact. Of course not tangible at each level. So gaining a level is like putting +1 in every of youre skills in D2, although you dont do it, it still happen. Gaining some different level, 10 - 20 - 30 and i dont remember the one for the skills, youll have to take a new skill an play with it, youll be so pumped up to receive youre other skills that you will level up quick. Of course around 35+ i can understand that there is no more tangible reward but still, im pretty sure well have some damn fun haha
Still pissed off about all these changes, and I'm sure I'm going to insist for at least another week or so that I'm not going to buy Diablo 3. But their reasoning definitely makes sense, and with runes we're still going to have a fuckton of customization. So while it's still REALLY far off from what D2 did, I'm sure I'll stop moaning about it soon :/.
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Quote from "Sixen" »
"One in every 10 million people can potentially have a headache from this pill." God forbid she is the 0.000000001% of having a headache.
probably because we wanted diablo 3 for so many years and it was going so well, we are at the beta!!! yeah! my excitement is at the top.
but at the last minute they change alot of stuff, heavy stuff, not just saying crimson will be called ruby, they removed the points, the traits etc. I think its for a better world and im happy. But alot of people felt like their dream just burned. Now they must raise their voice in hope to avoid a cataclysm (hehe nice double sense no?)because the game is about to be out... at least they are feeling like that. Many people also hear a news from a friends or just read a quick paragraph and jump into the war. When i first read the changeabout the rune system (if it change), i was all against. Why? because i was missing a key element. You were keeping youre old stone and could put it back, i tought it would destroy it and would be stuck with the new, having ton of chances to downgrade myself, i tought it was stupid.
So people miss read, some are fanboy , some are reluctant to change, it is the world but i think its for the better
All I see with people complaining that their "Customization" is gone is the same crowd when they cut the talent trees in WoW. People whined and cried all day long that they couldn't use their special little builds that they never used anyways, all people used were the cookie cutter builds, and there are still going to be cookie cutter builds and play styles, they just made it not as difficult to be a cookie cutter now.
I remember the days of exploring dungeons, looking for ancient books, attempting to complete my collection of spells. I also used to think taking out spell books would ruin my youthful sense of adventure. However, I enjoyed Diablo II regardless, and have learned to put more faith in Blizzard. I think I will wait to try the Beta before taking a stance on the subject.
I have been reading several of these pages and it seems like many of the people who have a problem with this system seem to be forgetting about runes. While it is true that people will able to switch skills out fairly easily, it doesn't seem likely that this will happen in the higher difficulty levels. This is because high tier runes are going to be extremely rare, and (if they add the new rune system), finding the optimum rune will be very difficult. This means that, unless you have all your spells enhanced by the best possible runes, you probably wont be deviating from your normal loadout unless absolutely necessary.
Secondly, with the ability to modify how your spells work, it drastically changes the dynamic in what spells you combine. True, some base spells might compliment others at face value, but once you start modifying it, what once worked might not be so great any more. Take this food analogy; we have our base item, cooked chicken. Cooked chicken works great with the item barbecue sauce. Barbecue sauce works best with cooked chicken if it has the cooking modifier "grilled" or "fried." If the cooking modifier is "boiled," barbecue sauce can still be used, but it just isn't as good. Perhaps it should be used with soup instead.
In essence, skill runes have replaced the need for talent trees. You tailor your play style by how you modify your spells and since powerful modifiers are rare, it will be a while before you modify all of your spells. To add to this, Blizzard wants to add affixes to these runes and make them stay specific to a spell apon use. This means that finding the absolute best rune for your spell will take heaps of time and effort. This allows for far more customization then simply dumping all of your skills in to one or two abilities. Flexibility and simplicity, with a good amount of depth. Seems like a great system to me.
ake this food analogy; we have our base item, cooked chicken. Cooked chicken works great with the item barbecue sauce. Barbecue sauce works best with cooked chicken if it has the cooking modifier "grilled" or "fried." If the cooking modifier is "boiled," barbecue sauce can still be used, but it just isn't as good. Perhaps it should be used with soup instead.
Well stated, best explanation I've read all day.
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Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
A big question I had about the system turns more around the passives than the active skills. What are they planning to with with all the traits they had ??? Are they gonna reuse them as passives or are they gonna do new ones?
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First off, just to set the mood, I love the new skill system.
A couple of points I would like to touch on... If you think you will ever even meet another player with the same setup as you in the skill department, I think you're underestimating how many combinations of 6 you can make out of 24 elements (especially when there are 7 versions of each of those 24 moves.) Yes, EVENTUALLY, people will adhere to something that works well that others are doing. But now, more than ever, people can viably deviate in huge ways, unlike in D2.
Second, let me just share a brief story. I played Diablo 2 for the first time many years ago. I started a necromancer, because I loved the idea. I looked at his skill tree and saw a path devoted to skeletons. I was more excited about a video game in that moment then I ever had been before. I'm here to tell you that I loved Diablo 2, but I never truly forgave it for the sin of promising me skeletons, but not allowing me to beat even normal difficulty with it. NO. I don't want to get Iron Maiden. NO. I don't want to max out resurrects. I want skeletons. And if you think I got over the idea of not being able to play the way I wanted to play when logic dictated by looking at the skill tree that I should have been able to, you're dead wrong. Now in Diablo 3, you'll see Witchdoctors with Mongrels in the lategame often (I assume, because who really knows?), because now skills scale properly. If you never had your initial game plan crushed by the horrors of the D2 skill trees, you will never understand why Blizzard did the right thing with this new update until you accept the reality that people deserve to play the way they want to play if a game is going to present them with options that it claims are all viable.
alot more opinions in there too . Pages 3 and 4 are most interesting in my opinion
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"Give a man a skill tree, and he will become a Fire Sorc. Give a man 6 skills to choose from, pulling from all three trees, and he becomes a Fire Sorc that likes to shoot lightning to manage the bigger crowds."
I won't miss the tradition of playing a cookie-cutter build. Being able to use all skills available to your class at all times with just about the same amount of power, although with some major differences thanks to the runes, will make the game more interesting.
I won't miss the tradition of playing a cookie-cutter build. Being able to use all skills available to your class at all times with just about the same amount of power, although with some major differences thanks to the runes, will make the game more interesting.
No, you fail to realize that cookie cutter builds will exist regardless, as long as skills are imbalanced.
Less choice is never better. We should have been given the option to use 4 or 7 skills (4, assuming that max skill cap was 15)
All the new skill system does is give us "infinite" re-spec at whim, without the real choice of choosing which skills to focus on. Instead it's like... here is your generic char, now go test whatever!
then again, i realize that by doing thing they probably would decrease server costs...it now makes sense that an account has max 10 chars! if we had a choice to make something like "an ice wizard" then "a melee wizard" etc etc... there would be more justification for having increase char per account, perhaps some "unreachable number"
I won't miss the tradition of playing a cookie-cutter build. Being able to use all skills available to your class at all times with just about the same amount of power, although with some major differences thanks to the runes, will make the game more interesting.
No, you fail to realize that cookie cutter builds will exist regardless, as long as skills are imbalanced.
Less choice is never better. We should have been given the option to use 4 or 7 skills (4, assuming that max skill cap was 15)
All the new skill system does is give us "infinite" re-spec at whim, without the real choice of choosing which skills to focus on. Instead it's like... here is your generic char, now go test whatever!
then again, i realize that by doing thing they probably would decrease server costs...it now makes sense that an account has max 10 chars! if we had a choice to make something like "an ice wizard" then "a melee wizard" etc etc... there would be more justification for having increase char per account, perhaps some "unreachable number"
Out of curiosity, are you going to respec on a whim since you can?
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1. I believe roger is talking about incentive, as with the new system, there is less incentive to create a new character with a different focus. Since your original character have already been built, quests done, geared up, and can change its skills (which are maxed) easily. Even though a lot of us, like to create new character and play for the experience. there are many constraints in life, and if there's less incentive for gamers to do it, then people would rather not do it at all.
2. Fighting monsters is a major part of D3, but why do we fight monsters, to level up, to find items. And it is this progression of your character that is the key to these games.
Customization debate aside, The following is what i posted in another post earlier:
"...what i am concerned about this choice is its affect on the playthrough experience, as well as the player's 'attachment' towards the character. Back a while ago when blizzard announced their level 60 cap, their explanation was to make every level feel significant. And i feel that skill points is a part of this 'significance,' a reward you receive for leveling up. even though just a psychological thing, but it does make you feel more weight on each skill point's distribution, and feel that you are more 'involved' in your character's progression.
Now with the skills scaling to your level or weapon dmg, once you have tried all the skills and selected the 6 skills you want, you are kind of done with it from level 30 (or 24) and beyond, since all you need to do now is to level up, and your skills would be stronger. which i think kind of 'detaches' you from your character and gameplay experience. I know people can say that "well with people following a specific build, skill choices arent really a big part of ongoing experience." well yes, but for one that is caused by DII's old system that we were hoping Blizzard introduce a new mechanism to fix, and second you still get to decide your skill point every level and probably decide on a specific path you would like to follow.
People can approach a build differently, for example you may want to orient or max skill X before skill Y. if you know the area have some high dmg monsters, you may want to put more skills in your defensive skills for now, and catch up your attack skills later on. Or when you play in a team, you may want to focus on certain skills that will compliment other team members depending on their current skill choices. this type of strategic thinking and constant balancing of your character to current needs i say is part of the experience with action RPGs."
there is in fact. Of course not tangible at each level. So gaining a level is like putting +1 in every of youre skills in D2, although you dont do it, it still happen. Gaining some different level, 10 - 20 - 30 and i dont remember the one for the skills, youll have to take a new skill an play with it, youll be so pumped up to receive youre other skills that you will level up quick. Of course around 35+ i can understand that there is no more tangible reward but still, im pretty sure well have some damn fun haha
I think the number of responses to a topic only a few hours old can attest to the level of controversy behind this change
but at the last minute they change alot of stuff, heavy stuff, not just saying crimson will be called ruby, they removed the points, the traits etc. I think its for a better world and im happy. But alot of people felt like their dream just burned. Now they must raise their voice in hope to avoid a cataclysm (hehe nice double sense no?)because the game is about to be out... at least they are feeling like that. Many people also hear a news from a friends or just read a quick paragraph and jump into the war. When i first read the changeabout the rune system (if it change), i was all against. Why? because i was missing a key element. You were keeping youre old stone and could put it back, i tought it would destroy it and would be stuck with the new, having ton of chances to downgrade myself, i tought it was stupid.
So people miss read, some are fanboy , some are reluctant to change, it is the world but i think its for the better
gawd i cant wait to play :3
Secondly, with the ability to modify how your spells work, it drastically changes the dynamic in what spells you combine. True, some base spells might compliment others at face value, but once you start modifying it, what once worked might not be so great any more. Take this food analogy; we have our base item, cooked chicken. Cooked chicken works great with the item barbecue sauce. Barbecue sauce works best with cooked chicken if it has the cooking modifier "grilled" or "fried." If the cooking modifier is "boiled," barbecue sauce can still be used, but it just isn't as good. Perhaps it should be used with soup instead.
In essence, skill runes have replaced the need for talent trees. You tailor your play style by how you modify your spells and since powerful modifiers are rare, it will be a while before you modify all of your spells. To add to this, Blizzard wants to add affixes to these runes and make them stay specific to a spell apon use. This means that finding the absolute best rune for your spell will take heaps of time and effort. This allows for far more customization then simply dumping all of your skills in to one or two abilities. Flexibility and simplicity, with a good amount of depth. Seems like a great system to me.
Well stated, best explanation I've read all day.
You haven't played the game yet.
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A couple of points I would like to touch on... If you think you will ever even meet another player with the same setup as you in the skill department, I think you're underestimating how many combinations of 6 you can make out of 24 elements (especially when there are 7 versions of each of those 24 moves.) Yes, EVENTUALLY, people will adhere to something that works well that others are doing. But now, more than ever, people can viably deviate in huge ways, unlike in D2.
Second, let me just share a brief story. I played Diablo 2 for the first time many years ago. I started a necromancer, because I loved the idea. I looked at his skill tree and saw a path devoted to skeletons. I was more excited about a video game in that moment then I ever had been before. I'm here to tell you that I loved Diablo 2, but I never truly forgave it for the sin of promising me skeletons, but not allowing me to beat even normal difficulty with it. NO. I don't want to get Iron Maiden. NO. I don't want to max out resurrects. I want skeletons. And if you think I got over the idea of not being able to play the way I wanted to play when logic dictated by looking at the skill tree that I should have been able to, you're dead wrong. Now in Diablo 3, you'll see Witchdoctors with Mongrels in the lategame often (I assume, because who really knows?), because now skills scale properly. If you never had your initial game plan crushed by the horrors of the D2 skill trees, you will never understand why Blizzard did the right thing with this new update until you accept the reality that people deserve to play the way they want to play if a game is going to present them with options that it claims are all viable.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
alot more opinions in there too . Pages 3 and 4 are most interesting in my opinion
TheSkaBoss
Less choice is never better. We should have been given the option to use 4 or 7 skills (4, assuming that max skill cap was 15)
All the new skill system does is give us "infinite" re-spec at whim, without the real choice of choosing which skills to focus on. Instead it's like... here is your generic char, now go test whatever!
then again, i realize that by doing thing they probably would decrease server costs...it now makes sense that an account has max 10 chars! if we had a choice to make something like "an ice wizard" then "a melee wizard" etc etc... there would be more justification for having increase char per account, perhaps some "unreachable number"
Out of curiosity, are you going to respec on a whim since you can?