My personal opinion: I can't even imagine a scenario, even not limited by realism, in which PvP would be fun in diablo 3. Sure I had fun (for a few hours) killing my friends and my brother 10-15 years ago in the diablo setting. But back then, even playing with other people online was fascinating, regardless of what you were playing. Right now, it seems like a horrible engine/setting for PVP compared to other games that offer something similar, like dota1-2, HoN and LoL.
I don't mind them catering to the preferences of PvPers however, as I'm not selfish. But I admit that I would be very dissappointed if Nephalem Trials was a PVP arena instead of an endless dungeon, which - incidentally - I think is the best option for (noncommittal and "friendly) competitive play.
Edit: spelling.
thats your opinion, also, I am not selfish, but I think they made well enough PVE changes already because its their priority like they said, but there will always be PVE stuff that need changes, are they going to ignore PVP forever ?
I cant imagine a scenario in which PVP couldnt be fun if its not pay to win.
thats your opinion, also, I am not selfish, but I think they made well enough PVE changes already because its they priority like they said, but there will always be PVE stuff that need changes, are they going to ignored PVP forever ?
I cant imagine a scenario in which PVP couldnt be fun if its not pay to win.
Fair point. To your last sentence, me and some others tried this for a while after brawling was introduced, using the rule of "blues only". It got horribly boring quick. Doesn't mean you will find it boring - my point is just that you can get some people together and try it. Just go blues with vit rolls; you will survive a few punches, and will be able to prototype how it would feel with semi-balanced gear.
I know some of you will hate me for this, but (as some of you might now by now) I really consider every minute of development time on PvP a waste. PvE >>> PvP for me.
However, I'm pretty sure you'll all be happy (and I'll be mad) at Blizzcon. I think the "Nephalem Trials" mentioned on the official RoS page sounds very much like PvP.
to me Neph Trials sounds more like a LAdder, or an endless dungeon they've been looking into. Trials seems to make me think you'll go through waves or levels of an endless dungeon and there will be a leaderboard as to whose gone farthest, shortest times, most gold earned, best item found, y'know something a bit more competitive but not PvP like.
Yeah, Trials are definitely going to be an end game PvE system.
No need to worry, Bagstone
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"Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the small death that brings total obliteration."
thats your opinion, also, I am not selfish, but I think they made well enough PVE changes already because its they priority like they said, but there will always be PVE stuff that need changes, are they going to ignored PVP forever ?
I cant imagine a scenario in which PVP couldnt be fun if its not pay to win.
Fair point. To your last sentence, me and some others tried this for a while after brawling was introduced, using the rule of "blues only". It got horribly boring quick. Doesn't mean you will find it boring - my point is just that you can get some people together and try it. Just go blues with vit rolls; you will survive a few punches, and will be able to prototype how it would feel with semi-balanced gear.
I played countless hours of 1m gold tournaments with my cousin, we both start with 1m, we have 30min-1hour to get gear on the auction house, no 1d12h-1d11h items. this is fair and soooo fun, but we got bored eventually due to the lack of people to play with, or against and the lack of team duels and the easy way to cheat in such a tournament if you play with random people.
blue/white items PVP seems fun but there almost no people playing it and I like to manage my gear and manage the stats on them, its another level of skills than just PVPing, most of my time on D2 was more on making different builds, trading for pvp gear and analyzing stuff than actually fight. Just the fact that PVP is here give a purpose to the game for me, PVE becomes more fun because it have a goal, to get gear to own in PVP.
Apologies, but I couldn't care less for PvP. It's never interested me in a Diablo game so I've not missed it and I'm not bothered when it comes out.
However, I do understand everyone's frustration after Blizz made quite a big deal of it before beta appeared, and over a year after release and there's still no solid information. The lack of PvP information from the expansion announcement is also rather strange considering the outcry for it, but I'm fairly certain that they will not roll the PvP out as an expansion only feature (i.e. you have to buy it to get PvP).
What I feel they'll do is drop a news bomb. Without warning, it'll be *BANG*, there's your loot updates to match the upcoming expansion, and we've finally implemented PvP for you with team options, Arenas and matchmaking.
They have dropped a big Diablo new dump on us today with the expansion announcement, but there are plenty of details missing. They'll probably fill in more details in the weeks coming up to BlizzCon, and I'm expecting a big blowout from them this year to make up for last years missing event. A Warcraft expansion announcement is very likely now they've confirmed the date of the much awaited 5.4 patch, Hearthstone is very likely to be out by then too, and not needing of much fanfare, so a Diablo shout out for PvP is a solid presumption I believe.
For clarity, no insider knowledge, just hopeful predictions
Hopefully your right, I've been hoping for some PVP news for a while now, but I am getting disappointed more and more every annoucements, I'm about to lose all hopes, but thanks to your posts guys, I still have faith in blizz !
All they need to do is make 1v1's fairly balanced (surely now they're reworking all the items and adding another 10 levels they can do something) and then give us some form of sandbox style map we can select instead of an act (eventually a few variations), even if its just a reskinned version of the camp from act 1 in diablo 2 (with necessary vendors for diablo 3), with a decent sized surrounding map and then let us loose.
If they wanted to be nice they could add trophys (ears or something), a server browser and the ability to name games played on this map and possibly if they're feeling jazzy even something like the old WoW pvp ranks but a lot more casual.
Oh and at least let us have, i dont know 8 people in a game at once with the ability to make alliances/groups.
I know the game is PvE based but the entirity of the people i knew while playing diablo2 farmed pretty much just to show off and duel in PvP and i dont even want to begin on how much i miss "PK'ing" too even as someone who was usually on the receiving end. Playing public that was one of the risks that made for exciting times.
They made a few arenas already, but since they scrapped matchmaking I guess its on hold. PvP items would be a good idea, even if I know a lot of people will be against them, it could make PvP fair without much work from them while not affecting PvE.
There is a lot of PvP features I would love, you just mentioned a few, but if they could give us just the minimum so we can start enjoying Diablo 3 for once, not gonna lie, I enjoyed playing Diablo 3 a lot, but PvP would make it much more fun for me and i'll play for years like I played Diablo 2.
Nephalem trials sounds very much like an endless dungeon feature to me. Doesn't sound like PvP at all.
On the note of PvP, I know it's important to a lot of players but I literally couldn't care less about it. Diablo for me is about killing hordes of demons, if I want a PvP game I'll play a PvP-based game.
Nephalem trials sounds very much like an endless dungeon feature to me. Doesn't sound like PvP at all.
On the note of PvP, I know it's important to a lot of players but I literally couldn't care less about it. Diablo for me is about killing hordes of demons, if I want a PvP game I'll play a PvP-based game.
We already have loot runs for PvE so Nephalem Trials should be dota/capture the flag/domination type PvP modes, it's the only way to make d3 pvp fun, and oh boy would it be awesome, but as some ppl pointed out previously, it's prolly just some tard portals like TL2. xD
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Those Who Do Not Know True Pain Cannot Possibly Understand True Peace...
Give me PVP and remove storeboarding/quest based games...oh and cut scenes after the first go around.
I don't need any Arena fancy pancy PVP format. Just allow people to duel in public games and perhaps expand the player limit in public games. i HOPE with the release of a new class they they increase the limit..it would be nice.
Blizzcon for sure. There is no chance they will release an xpack without PvP.
Judging by how blizzard disappointed me since they said PvP wouldn't be in the initial release of D3, I am not quite sure...
anyway, if its not in, I am not sure I will buy the expac, especially if they dont say a word about PvP
if you want to pvp, there are other games to play you know...
If I may, games that are much better and focused on that aspect only.
I think some people have a hard time accepting the idea of playing against other players on "even grounds", where "time grinding" doesn't mean an advantage. Even though on those PvP games, the time spent on them usually means some skill too.
if you want to pvp, there are other games to play you know...
That's a cop out of an argument. Diablo while never being a PVP based game still offered that element and outlet for people because it was a great use of their time. That's why people min/maxed their characters to eventually pvp with them. Diablo 3 hasn't done a great job of giving people that optional outlet. They don't need to worry about pvp balancing unless some stuff is truly outrageous but other than that it can be left alone for what it is, and not trying to become an e-sport or something. I don't want that, and this game doesn't fit that mold.
if you want to pvp, there are other games to play you know...
That's a cop out of an argument. Diablo while never being a PVP based game still offered that element and outlet for people because it was a great use of their time. That's why people min/maxed their characters to eventually pvp with them. Diablo 3 hasn't done a great job of giving people that optional outlet. They don't need to worry about pvp balancing unless some stuff is truly outrageous but other than that it can be left alone for what it is, and not trying to become an e-sport or something. I don't want that, and this game doesn't fit that mold.
It's actually a good argument when you consider that PvP was never a staple of the "franchise" as a whole. They made an experiment with it in D2, but it definitely isn't something that defines this franchise, whether people are willing to admit that or not.
PvP in D2 was absolutelly atrocious a game feature.
It mostly allowed PK and griefing, which made public games a mess that nobody really cared about (sort of like some of D3 HC is recently). And the actual PvP part of it had almost 0 features, no kill counter, no way to prevent the players from griefing the judges or just bailing.
There's a reason why an ESports community developed around games like AoS/DotA and Starcraft/BW and D2 never really had that. Let's not be delusional here.
ps.: D3 gives players everything D2 did (except for the griefing part?). And there are a few PvP websites/tournaments around. So it's not like people can't PvP at all.
The thing is, I played a LOT of PvP games competitively, from counter-strike to halo by wow to LoL. And I never had fun like I had fun PvPing in Diablo 2, why ? I am not quite sure, the duel system was indeed broken in Diablo 2 but it still delivered more than any esport or PvP based game ever did. I believe its the strategy in gear building and the fact that its a medieval themed game in fast paced combat mixed with the two things I like the most after PvP, loot and trading. PvP give a purpose to the game, PvE farming is now fun to me, doing ubers to get a better torch to replace, the fact that you can almost infinitely upgrade your gear, even if its just to switch a couple 3/17/19 scs into 3/19/20 scs to feel like you are stronger and stronger you are.
No matter how much PvP was broken in Diablo 2, its nowhere close to be as broken as D3 brawling, at all.
ps.: D3 gives players everything D2 did (except for the griefing part?). And there are a few PvP websites/tournaments around. So it's not like people can't PvP at all.
Like I said already, its not the same thing at all, brawling in d3 is more than unbalanced, its a lost cause, something that they could fix very very easily by tweaking a few numbers that changes only when in the ''arena''
not only that, but brawling is way too much pay to win, in diablo 2, a 5000$ character was 1.1x better than a 100$ character (lets say same class vs same class for that comparison) while in Diablo 3, a 5000$ character is like 5x stronger than a 100$ character, no matter how well built the 100$ character is or how skilled he is, there is no way he can win, no even once over 100 duels.
While in Diablo 2, I remember owning people with my level 70 fresh barb or leveling to 97 just to get a few more stats to be as good as 99% perfect characters even if I was like 94% perfect, I was still winning 47% of the games, more if I get lucky hehe.
Imagine if in LoL you could pay 2000$ to be 2x stronger than anyone, the game would die within a week leaving only the people who paid that 2000$ fight together, thats exactly what happend with brawling
That's also exactly what happened in D2. Oh wait, nevermind in D2 everyone had duped gear. Most who didn't, paid for theirs on D2jsp (hint: that website made a lot of money back then). And then 0,0001% of the players were legit.
The thing is, I played a LOT of PvP games competitively, from counter-strike to halo by wow to LoL. And I never had fun like I had fun PvPing in Diablo 2, why ? I am not quite sure, the duel system was indeed broken in Diablo 2 but it still delivered more than any esport or PvP based game ever did.
These statements makes absolutely no sense to me. But whatever works for you.
No matter how much PvP was broken in Diablo 2, its nowhere close to be as broken as D3 brawling, at all.
From the very little D3 Brawling I saw to date, it has a lot more skill build variety than D2, and the fights sometimes are actually fights, instead of one-sided stomps.
Nothing in D3 can even come close to Charge-dins, Hammerdins, Bone Spear/Spirit Necromancers, ES Sorcs, Tele WW Barbs... but hey, there was strategy. All you needed to know is what your enemy was and you could "have a chance". So much fun.
I can understand people liking the grinding aspect of PvE supporting the PvP. But it's certainly not the best feature to base a competitive feature (PvP) around. All that particular aspect does is split the community into hundreds of fragmented imbalanced parties that won't really ever have a "fair match", and will complain about that.
Also, nevermind. Scratch all that. You can't compare D2's PvP to D3's Brawling.
Back then we didn't really have a single good action-oriented player versus player experience, let alone one with RPG elements (neutral minions that can be "farmed" and item progression/crafting). We didn't have a strong competition in this gaming genre. We didn't have any baseline standards, so we were happy with whatever crap we got. Gaming was still in its baby steps.
We didn't have rankings, matchmakers, hacking protection, high standards for dev support, good and stable online connections (answering the phone dropped our internets?!). We didn't care as much about class or skill balance. There weren't thousands of players complaining that their class or favorite skill got "nerfed" like people do nowadays (WoW is particularly enlightening).
Different ages, different standards. Anyone can realize that. Comparing them was a very dumb argument by me.
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thats your opinion, also, I am not selfish, but I think they made well enough PVE changes already because its their priority like they said, but there will always be PVE stuff that need changes, are they going to ignore PVP forever ?
I cant imagine a scenario in which PVP couldnt be fun if its not pay to win.
Fair point. To your last sentence, me and some others tried this for a while after brawling was introduced, using the rule of "blues only". It got horribly boring quick. Doesn't mean you will find it boring - my point is just that you can get some people together and try it. Just go blues with vit rolls; you will survive a few punches, and will be able to prototype how it would feel with semi-balanced gear.
http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/sodomir-2220/
Yeah, Trials are definitely going to be an end game PvE system.
No need to worry, Bagstone
I played countless hours of 1m gold tournaments with my cousin, we both start with 1m, we have 30min-1hour to get gear on the auction house, no 1d12h-1d11h items. this is fair and soooo fun, but we got bored eventually due to the lack of people to play with, or against and the lack of team duels and the easy way to cheat in such a tournament if you play with random people.
blue/white items PVP seems fun but there almost no people playing it and I like to manage my gear and manage the stats on them, its another level of skills than just PVPing, most of my time on D2 was more on making different builds, trading for pvp gear and analyzing stuff than actually fight. Just the fact that PVP is here give a purpose to the game for me, PVE becomes more fun because it have a goal, to get gear to own in PVP.
Hopefully your right, I've been hoping for some PVP news for a while now, but I am getting disappointed more and more every annoucements, I'm about to lose all hopes, but thanks to your posts guys, I still have faith in blizz !
They made a few arenas already, but since they scrapped matchmaking I guess its on hold. PvP items would be a good idea, even if I know a lot of people will be against them, it could make PvP fair without much work from them while not affecting PvE.
There is a lot of PvP features I would love, you just mentioned a few, but if they could give us just the minimum so we can start enjoying Diablo 3 for once, not gonna lie, I enjoyed playing Diablo 3 a lot, but PvP would make it much more fun for me and i'll play for years like I played Diablo 2.
link ?
On the note of PvP, I know it's important to a lot of players but I literally couldn't care less about it. Diablo for me is about killing hordes of demons, if I want a PvP game I'll play a PvP-based game.
We already have loot runs for PvE so Nephalem Trials should be dota/capture the flag/domination type PvP modes, it's the only way to make d3 pvp fun, and oh boy would it be awesome, but as some ppl pointed out previously, it's prolly just some tard portals like TL2. xD
Those Who Do Not Know True Pain Cannot Possibly Understand True Peace...
Give me PVP and remove storeboarding/quest based games...oh and cut scenes after the first go around.
I don't need any Arena fancy pancy PVP format. Just allow people to duel in public games and perhaps expand the player limit in public games. i HOPE with the release of a new class they they increase the limit..it would be nice.
Judging by how blizzard disappointed me since they said PvP wouldn't be in the initial release of D3, I am not quite sure...
anyway, if its not in, I am not sure I will buy the expac, especially if they dont say a word about PvP
I think some people have a hard time accepting the idea of playing against other players on "even grounds", where "time grinding" doesn't mean an advantage. Even though on those PvP games, the time spent on them usually means some skill too.
That's a cop out of an argument. Diablo while never being a PVP based game still offered that element and outlet for people because it was a great use of their time. That's why people min/maxed their characters to eventually pvp with them. Diablo 3 hasn't done a great job of giving people that optional outlet. They don't need to worry about pvp balancing unless some stuff is truly outrageous but other than that it can be left alone for what it is, and not trying to become an e-sport or something. I don't want that, and this game doesn't fit that mold.
*money, business, marketing, etc.
Can't think of any games remade into a newer version... well maybe some Nintendo Final Fantasy games into PS1 games. Life must be rough huh.
EDIT: Sorry I forgot about sports games but even those make changes over time. Just do your self a favour and play D2.
PvP in D2 was absolutelly atrocious a game feature.
It mostly allowed PK and griefing, which made public games a mess that nobody really cared about (sort of like some of D3 HC is recently). And the actual PvP part of it had almost 0 features, no kill counter, no way to prevent the players from griefing the judges or just bailing.
There's a reason why an ESports community developed around games like AoS/DotA and Starcraft/BW and D2 never really had that. Let's not be delusional here.
ps.: D3 gives players everything D2 did (except for the griefing part?). And there are a few PvP websites/tournaments around. So it's not like people can't PvP at all.
No matter how much PvP was broken in Diablo 2, its nowhere close to be as broken as D3 brawling, at all.
Like I said already, its not the same thing at all, brawling in d3 is more than unbalanced, its a lost cause, something that they could fix very very easily by tweaking a few numbers that changes only when in the ''arena''
not only that, but brawling is way too much pay to win, in diablo 2, a 5000$ character was 1.1x better than a 100$ character (lets say same class vs same class for that comparison) while in Diablo 3, a 5000$ character is like 5x stronger than a 100$ character, no matter how well built the 100$ character is or how skilled he is, there is no way he can win, no even once over 100 duels.
While in Diablo 2, I remember owning people with my level 70 fresh barb or leveling to 97 just to get a few more stats to be as good as 99% perfect characters even if I was like 94% perfect, I was still winning 47% of the games, more if I get lucky hehe.
Imagine if in LoL you could pay 2000$ to be 2x stronger than anyone, the game would die within a week leaving only the people who paid that 2000$ fight together, thats exactly what happend with brawling
These statements makes absolutely no sense to me. But whatever works for you.
From the very little D3 Brawling I saw to date, it has a lot more skill build variety than D2, and the fights sometimes are actually fights, instead of one-sided stomps.
Nothing in D3 can even come close to Charge-dins, Hammerdins, Bone Spear/Spirit Necromancers, ES Sorcs, Tele WW Barbs... but hey, there was strategy. All you needed to know is what your enemy was and you could "have a chance". So much fun.
I can understand people liking the grinding aspect of PvE supporting the PvP. But it's certainly not the best feature to base a competitive feature (PvP) around. All that particular aspect does is split the community into hundreds of fragmented imbalanced parties that won't really ever have a "fair match", and will complain about that.
Back then we didn't really have a single good action-oriented player versus player experience, let alone one with RPG elements (neutral minions that can be "farmed" and item progression/crafting). We didn't have a strong competition in this gaming genre. We didn't have any baseline standards, so we were happy with whatever crap we got. Gaming was still in its baby steps.
We didn't have rankings, matchmakers, hacking protection, high standards for dev support, good and stable online connections (answering the phone dropped our internets?!). We didn't care as much about class or skill balance. There weren't thousands of players complaining that their class or favorite skill got "nerfed" like people do nowadays (WoW is particularly enlightening).
Different ages, different standards. Anyone can realize that. Comparing them was a very dumb argument by me.