I think there will be a lot of room to refine your character. Even if you get lucky and have all your times get the best stats on the first try or so, farming has quite literally, real value. That and with 5 being used for your main characters of each class you can have 5 disposable Hardcore characters.
I'm still dissapointed of having respec system in D3. I think u are getting more into the build when u level with it from lvl1. U start with lower skill in skilltree, thinking of how optimize your leveling with synergy system to get your build viable in late. And that is crappy in wow that u can be just DD during ur way to max lvl, then (like Druids) need every item in high level instances, respec and became maxleveled goodgeared Anyone - healer, tank... It's stupid that u just was swinging ur hammer for months and then in one moment became powerfull healer. And there's gonna be the same ridiculous stuff - u use frost magic for a long time, master your skills in that way, and then u somehow become mighty arcane mage... I dunno, that's just not right and feels sad.
Your comparison from WoW has NOTHING to do with D3. Your basically crying about gear and loot is totally different in D3.
As for feel you will still get that from 1-30 you don't have all your skills yet. Any level after 30 your going to be tweaking and trying new abilities out pending on gear and runes (think of that as your synergy tweaking in D2), so there is plenty of opportunities to get a feel for a character. Just because a lvl 7 rune drops your not going to change all 6 abilities and 3 passives and become an new all power character.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
I'll bet a reasonable sum of gold that D3 60 will be easier to reach than even the lowball (D2 85) estimation there.
Any takers?
im right there with you. at this rate, im thinking it will be something like D2 75.
people will be cranking out level 60's in less than a days time lol
No not in the beginning anyway. When D2 was first played it took much longer than that because everyone was unfamiliar with game. However, given time... people will find runs to do and people will be power leveled. At that point it would probably take the equivalent amount of time to get to 60 in D3 as it did to 75 in D2. Give the game a month at least, and you will see those runs.
I'll bet a reasonable sum of gold that D3 60 will be easier to reach than even the lowball (D2 85) estimation there.
Any takers?
im right there with you. at this rate, im thinking it will be something like D2 75.
people will be cranking out level 60's in less than a days time lol
I guess it will take much more time, may be like a week to get 60lvl. In D2 u could have get help from highlvl charecters, u could skip most areas and quests and then get 20lvlups on baalruns in one hour. I think in D3 there will be no such things to boost your leveling. So it's more like maybe 96lvl in D2 if i have to compare.
I'll bet a reasonable sum of gold that D3 60 will be easier to reach than even the lowball (D2 85) estimation there.
Any takers?
im right there with you. at this rate, im thinking it will be something like D2 75.
people will be cranking out level 60's in less than a days time lol
I don't think we can grind like in D2.. rush, chaos, baal = lvl 80's in a day. From the video's I saw boss fights are going to be a lot longer than a few second fight like in D2. There is going to be some challenge and time put into these fights. I think blizzard also posted something on you can try to rush low level characters in high areas bout you going to get an exp nerf... I may be wrong on that though.
I'd think the time it takes to get 95ish might would be a good guess on reaching 60 in D3 (5-7 days?). The only way to accomplish this though is you need to have gear, I doubt a lvl 57 in lvl 30 gear is going to have an easy time in hell mode so it might take even longer until you've established your char for all tiers of gear.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
I guess "easier," was a poor choice of words. I intended that to mean 'faster," and since i've been aptly quoted I won't bother editing the original post.
I agree the pace is going to be far slower at first. Not only because of a lack of items, but also because many players will be exploring and taking in the lore. That said, my opinion remains the overall pace of reaching 60 will not include much "grinding," at all. I wouldn't be at all suprised if we hit 60 before, if not shortly after, completeing hell mode.
Edit: I'm not factoring in D2 power-grinding either.
There is a SERIOUS lack of appreciation here for the more arcade-ish feel of just "making a char, getting it up and then not having to stick to it, and there's plenty other unique builds to start the game over with".
Diablo was always a short term RPG to me, not a long term one...
I mean, you can still do all that, minus the chore of needing to re-grind levels and lower difficulty content again on the exact same class.
I really have to wonder what you mean by short-term? If you were never that invested in it or what?
The only investment online really was wasting time online to get all the necessary gear to... kill Baal more easily. That was not something I cared about.
It can easily take less than a week of on and off playing before a character has done everything that doesn't involve mindless grinding. And that was where I was done already. I was mostly a singleplayer guy, though.
What people seem to forget is, and I think blizzard is going to come to the same conclusion and find a happy medium, is being able to try all the skills etc, and customizing/making specific build/sticking with character are not mutually exclusive especially with the direction things are heading in, they just need to add a little investment/customization/uniqueness of build, that way people who dont want to have to make a new character dont have to, but still give people who want to try multiple things a reason to play same class twice.
A few ideas for this have already been mentioned as well as unique runes etc, and I think it is just the happy medium the new system needs, and im sure they will find a solution, so you have freedom/ability to try all spells, no NEED to replay same class etc just to look at different skills, but still have customiztion/investment/uniqueness of build/strategy/planning, and reasons to start from scratch that give the game more replayability.
The only investment online really was wasting time online to get all the necessary gear to... kill Baal more easily. That was not something I cared about.
It can easily take less than a week of on and off playing before a character has done everything that doesn't involve mindless grinding. And that was where I was done already. I was mostly a singleplayer guy, though.
I don't think your experience will change much in that case.
I mean, you can still do all that, minus the chore of needing to re-grind levels and lower difficulty content again on the exact same class.
Except doing that with friends on a lan-party was extremely fun, and we're talking about a game with TONS of flaws.
And still, people would hang out and play it for hours in a row in a lan party, trying new characters with new builds. I know I did, D2 was that fun back then.
I guess there's no place for nostalgia nowadays, as many people get easily offended when "old school" gamers tell how important specific features were to keep a game alive. Right now, an offline/lan mode, and the ability to reroll characters and for them to be different than the others.
On a sidenote, ladder resets/wipes existed solely because of dupes, economy out of control, and because there was a ladder and specific end-game stuff that was affected by all the problems (uber tristam?). They could easily have sticked with the old system where people could respec (but not infinitely/cheaply like Jay Wilson made it sound in the interviews/reasoning for change) and still not have to ladder reset/wipe. You guys are relating character expiration date to "skill points" when they had nothing to do with each other. I would reroll characters to play with friends who didn't have a lvl 80 char or to try a new build with them, but I'd still love to go back and play my Nova Sorc every now and then, it wasn't disposable for me because of skill/stats points.
I mean, you can still do all that, minus the chore of needing to re-grind levels and lower difficulty content again on the exact same class.
Except doing that with friends on a lan-party was extremely fun, and we're talking about a game with TONS of flaws.
And still, people would hang out and play it for hours in a row in a lan party, trying new characters with new builds. I know I did, D2 was that fun back then.
I guess there's no place for nostalgia nowadays, as many people get easily offended when "old school" gamers tell how important specific features were to keep a game alive. Right now, an offline/lan mode, and the ability to reroll characters and for them to be different than the others.
On a sidenote, ladder resets/wipes existed solely because of dupes, economy out of control, and because there was a ladder and specific end-game stuff that was affected by all the problems (uber tristam?). They could easily have sticked with the old system where people could respec (but not infinitely/cheaply like Jay Wilson made it sound in the interviews/reasoning for change) and still not have to ladder reset/wipe. You guys are relating character expiration date to "skill points" when they had nothing to do with each other. I would reroll characters to play with friends who didn't have a lvl 80 char or to try a new build with them, but I'd still love to go back and play my Nova Sorc every now and then, it wasn't disposable for me because of skill/stats points.
I'm just as nostalgic as anyone and i've been a gamer since the 80's. I just don't have rosy colored glasses about things just because I once played them. D2 was awsome, but it was D2, and had it's flaws. I mourn the loss of LAN modes in a lot of games, but i'll gladly swallow the loss to recieve D3's innovations and refinement from the previous incarnation.
In terms of rerolling to play with friends:
a. Jay mentioned they would like to implement a sidekick system in the future.
b. It's not a problem if you're both playing from release day.
c. You still have character slots to burn, play another character class with your friend.
Really, I get the nostalgia. I get the sense of loss in the setting you are talking about. But take a moment to critically think about the problem. It isn't a big deal and it's certainly not impossible to work around.
What bothers me is that we didn't have at all to lose those systems/features, just like SC2 didn't have to lose the tournament system to receive the improvements, it's just a "bad design decision". If it was necessary to remove LAN in order to deliver a better experience (like they claim to be the case), I'd be fine with it, but it's not the case. It's a decision motivated solely by financial reasons, ignoring all the support and all the money spent by people who supported Blizzard all these years (and still supports through bad calls).
I've put plenty of thought into it. To me, that's not a big deal, it's a huge one.
a) I believe Jay already said "rushing" friends is quite possible, so I don't think a sidekick system is needed.
yeah, I am going to play with them from release, so it's not going to affect me much.
c) I'll definitely try all classes.
I was just pointing out how people are derailing the idea that "ladder resets" have anything to do with "respecing"/skill points and making characters disposable, when it's absolutely obvious they had nothing to do with it. They were directly related to the ladder system and an economy out of control (dupes).
Everything that you did with a D2 character had a great sense of commitment to it. You had to completely commit to every stat and every skill. Which in turn is a semi-commitment to your equipment and playstyle. There was no going back. Some people just dont like making commitments or don't have the patience or knowledge to strongly consider everything with their build.
a) I believe Jay already said "rushing" friends is quite possible, so I don't think a sidekick system is needed.
He said quite the opposite, you can indeed skip content but experience will have a cap, or something like that. In d3 there will be no "rushing" unless you mean it in the sense players will be able to skip content, but that would be pointless if experience is capped.
He said quite the opposite, you can indeed skip content but experience will have a cap, or something like that. In d3 there will be no "rushing" unless you mean it in the sense players will be able to skip content, but that would be pointless if experience is capped.
To be fair, I would be mildly surprised if there wasn't a sweetspot for xp where you just get that much more xp from a mob that even with an X% reduction, its still more than your on-level xp/min.
Something like always fighting lvl+3 mobs with a higher level char killing them would be more xp/min than solo or group fighting lvl+0 mobs.
(values subject to change) (may cause ::mumble::death::mumble:: )
I agree it sucked to have a build get nerfed and have to start over while your friends still played at the higher levels. Don't want to go through that again.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Easier? No... Will it take less time? Perhaps... But I think 85 is about right. No bets though lol
Your comparison from WoW has NOTHING to do with D3. Your basically crying about gear and loot is totally different in D3.
As for feel you will still get that from 1-30 you don't have all your skills yet. Any level after 30 your going to be tweaking and trying new abilities out pending on gear and runes (think of that as your synergy tweaking in D2), so there is plenty of opportunities to get a feel for a character. Just because a lvl 7 rune drops your not going to change all 6 abilities and 3 passives and become an new all power character.
people will be cranking out level 60's in less than a days time lol
No not in the beginning anyway. When D2 was first played it took much longer than that because everyone was unfamiliar with game. However, given time... people will find runs to do and people will be power leveled. At that point it would probably take the equivalent amount of time to get to 60 in D3 as it did to 75 in D2. Give the game a month at least, and you will see those runs.
I don't think we can grind like in D2.. rush, chaos, baal = lvl 80's in a day. From the video's I saw boss fights are going to be a lot longer than a few second fight like in D2. There is going to be some challenge and time put into these fights. I think blizzard also posted something on you can try to rush low level characters in high areas bout you going to get an exp nerf... I may be wrong on that though.
I'd think the time it takes to get 95ish might would be a good guess on reaching 60 in D3 (5-7 days?). The only way to accomplish this though is you need to have gear, I doubt a lvl 57 in lvl 30 gear is going to have an easy time in hell mode so it might take even longer until you've established your char for all tiers of gear.
I agree the pace is going to be far slower at first. Not only because of a lack of items, but also because many players will be exploring and taking in the lore. That said, my opinion remains the overall pace of reaching 60 will not include much "grinding," at all. I wouldn't be at all suprised if we hit 60 before, if not shortly after, completeing hell mode.
Edit: I'm not factoring in D2 power-grinding either.
It can easily take less than a week of on and off playing before a character has done everything that doesn't involve mindless grinding. And that was where I was done already. I was mostly a singleplayer guy, though.
A few ideas for this have already been mentioned as well as unique runes etc, and I think it is just the happy medium the new system needs, and im sure they will find a solution, so you have freedom/ability to try all spells, no NEED to replay same class etc just to look at different skills, but still have customiztion/investment/uniqueness of build/strategy/planning, and reasons to start from scratch that give the game more replayability.
I don't think your experience will change much in that case.
And still, people would hang out and play it for hours in a row in a lan party, trying new characters with new builds. I know I did, D2 was that fun back then.
I guess there's no place for nostalgia nowadays, as many people get easily offended when "old school" gamers tell how important specific features were to keep a game alive. Right now, an offline/lan mode, and the ability to reroll characters and for them to be different than the others.
On a sidenote, ladder resets/wipes existed solely because of dupes, economy out of control, and because there was a ladder and specific end-game stuff that was affected by all the problems (uber tristam?). They could easily have sticked with the old system where people could respec (but not infinitely/cheaply like Jay Wilson made it sound in the interviews/reasoning for change) and still not have to ladder reset/wipe. You guys are relating character expiration date to "skill points" when they had nothing to do with each other. I would reroll characters to play with friends who didn't have a lvl 80 char or to try a new build with them, but I'd still love to go back and play my Nova Sorc every now and then, it wasn't disposable for me because of skill/stats points.
I'm just as nostalgic as anyone and i've been a gamer since the 80's. I just don't have rosy colored glasses about things just because I once played them. D2 was awsome, but it was D2, and had it's flaws. I mourn the loss of LAN modes in a lot of games, but i'll gladly swallow the loss to recieve D3's innovations and refinement from the previous incarnation.
In terms of rerolling to play with friends:
a. Jay mentioned they would like to implement a sidekick system in the future.
b. It's not a problem if you're both playing from release day.
c. You still have character slots to burn, play another character class with your friend.
Really, I get the nostalgia. I get the sense of loss in the setting you are talking about. But take a moment to critically think about the problem. It isn't a big deal and it's certainly not impossible to work around.
I've put plenty of thought into it. To me, that's not a big deal, it's a huge one.
a) I believe Jay already said "rushing" friends is quite possible, so I don't think a sidekick system is needed.
yeah, I am going to play with them from release, so it's not going to affect me much.
c) I'll definitely try all classes.
I was just pointing out how people are derailing the idea that "ladder resets" have anything to do with "respecing"/skill points and making characters disposable, when it's absolutely obvious they had nothing to do with it. They were directly related to the ladder system and an economy out of control (dupes).
Everything that you did with a D2 character had a great sense of commitment to it. You had to completely commit to every stat and every skill. Which in turn is a semi-commitment to your equipment and playstyle. There was no going back. Some people just dont like making commitments or don't have the patience or knowledge to strongly consider everything with their build.
He said quite the opposite, you can indeed skip content but experience will have a cap, or something like that. In d3 there will be no "rushing" unless you mean it in the sense players will be able to skip content, but that would be pointless if experience is capped.
To be fair, I would be mildly surprised if there wasn't a sweetspot for xp where you just get that much more xp from a mob that even with an X% reduction, its still more than your on-level xp/min.
Something like always fighting lvl+3 mobs with a higher level char killing them would be more xp/min than solo or group fighting lvl+0 mobs.
(values subject to change) (may cause ::mumble::death::mumble:: )