"I don’t think people necessarily remember how mad they themselves were that they had an offline mode and online mode in Diablo II," Martens said. "This will probably be controversial for me to say. People will be like, 'I wasn’t mad!' But I was there at the time, and then I studied this for a living. It sucks when your friend or brother is online and he wants to join this game, but you realize you’re an offline character and he’s an online character, and there’s no way to transfer over because offline characters can be hacked and hex-edited to hell and back, right?"
"I don’t think people necessarily remember how mad they themselves were that they had an offline mode and online mode in Diablo II," Martens said. "This will probably be controversial for me to say. People will be like, 'I wasn’t mad!' But I was there at the time, and then I studied this for a living. It sucks when your friend or brother is online and he wants to join this game, but you realize you’re an offline character and he’s an online character, and there’s no way to transfer over because offline characters can be hacked and hex-edited to hell and back, right?"
While I'm sure this situation happened to some people, I think even then most people understood the difference between online and offline characters. And while it sucks to not be able to play online with someone if you've been playing single player only, that's not really a good enough reason to take away the choice.
Granted, there ARE other reasons, but the article makes it sound like that's the only reason. I doubt that's what Kevin is implying.
When D2 launched, many homes had no internet or at best, limited dial up.
It would've cost them a ton of sales to go online only. As well, Diablo would've had limited exposure to new players that weren't familiar with the franchise.
I played it offline for years before going online. I was one of those whom was slow to get internet. The online experience made the game come alive, true. But I would've never even known about Diablo 2 if it wasn't offline as well.
All that being said, I'm damn glad it's online only. Diablo 2's worst aspect was a total loss of integrity (online).
I really loved the D2 mod scene so it kind of bothers me when Blizzard says D2 offline was a mistake. I think maybe they should have held their tongue because a lot of people really loved playing offline and with mods. Also third party programs like the one sthat let you share stash space were awesome.
Like i said, they should just stop talking about D2 because they are coming off like they dont like the game at all. Its just bad PR in general.
I really loved the D2 mod scene so it kind of bothers me when Blizzard says D2 offline was a mistake. I think maybe they should have held their tongue because a lot of people really loved playing offline and with mods. Also third party programs like the one sthat let you share stash space were awesome.
Like i said, they should just stop talking about D2 because they are coming off like they dont like the game at all. Its just bad PR in general.
It's important to note; The same avenues that made mods possible is exactly what made hero-editors, pic-it, insta TP'ing and a hundred other game-breaking hacks that spoiled the fun for many online.
You can't point out the good without pointing out the bad.
Oh fine, in the interests of pretending there's an actual discussion to be had here... clearly splitting offline and online causes tension and dissatisfaction in the playerbase. I remember that happening when D2 came out... although it wasn't even close to the reaction to 'always on'. Although I also remember not giving a shit, because I'm mostly a solo player. This stuff is really just an indirect response to player demands for offline and online modes, and IMO anyone with any sense should give up that fight. Blizzard isn't budging.
I really do wish, though, that they'd just own up to the fact that always on has been a very successful form of DRM, and has actually behaved itself better than most (barring the obvious, inevitable and totally avoidable release day issues*), and from that point of view has been a 100% justified decision... they should just cut the bullshit, strap themselves in and say "D3 was an expensive game to make, and we needed to protect than investment. The DRM we implemented cut piracy to zero and minimized player inconvenience, and although it imposed certain restrictions on game design and caused some issues during the initial release we believe it was worth it in the long term.".
* I fully anticipate QQ-storms about connectivity when RoS ships, too. Because people don't learn. Anyone dumb enough to take time off work during release week needs their head checked.
I really loved the D2 mod scene so it kind of bothers me when Blizzard says D2 offline was a mistake. I think maybe they should have held their tongue because a lot of people really loved playing offline and with mods. Also third party programs like the one sthat let you share stash space were awesome.
Like i said, they should just stop talking about D2 because they are coming off like they dont like the game at all. Its just bad PR in general.
It's important to note; The same avenues that made mods possible is exactly what made hero-editors, pic-it, insta TP'ing and a hundred other game-breaking hacks that spoiled the fun for many online.
You can't point out the good without pointing out the bad.
Your post reminds me of a very nice quote by your own Ben Franklin....
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
Blizzard guy had better explain why consoles get the offline treatment if it's THAT bad for the game. Did they just not care about ruining the console experience? Or... Funny how that works, huh.
For what it's worth, the guy in the Blizzard article is saying the problem was having an online mode that was separate from the offline mode, because it segregated online characters from offline characters. On the console version, every character can play online or offline, as the player chooses.
Clearly everyone hear loves to ignore the fact that Blizzard made Diablo 3 for PS3 and 360 which have seamless transition between offline and online for the same character.
Yeah they made that game too, and they don't give a rats ass about hex editing or duping.
Blizzard hypocrites. And maybe change the name of this site to diablofanboys.com if you're going to continually ignore all the facts.
I'm a big believer in the idea that treating a child like an adult encourages them to grow up, so here goes:
1. Blizzard had to use first-party infrastructure rather than their own, so just gave up and just made the console version p2p, which means it's basically the same as the PC version in that a 'single player' is just a one-person multiplayer game, so there's actually no transition to be made between 'online' and 'offline'... it's the same code running off the same character data. The difference is that on PC, that code and data is on their servers, not our computers. It also makes it impossible to guarantee character integrity.
2. The console version was designed to be much more of a short-burn experience, because console-jockeys tend to be fine with much shorter shelf-life for their games than the PC Master Race, so any potential short-circuiting of the BIS-hunt wasn't such a big deal, and with no AH, duped and hacked items could only propagate to the incautious or outright willing rather instantly being available to the entire community.
... and at the risk of pointing out the breathtakingly obvious, the site is called www.diablofans.com, because, you know, girls are allowed.
It's important to note; The same avenues that made mods possible is exactly what made hero-editors, pic-it, insta TP'ing and a hundred other game-breaking hacks that spoiled the fun for many online.
Well they had closed Bnet for keeping out all those lil tools. It's normal that people will abuse the savegames if they can have them on their own harddrive. No reason against offline mode though. Blizzard knew that this will come, just as they knew it when they released the console versions of D3.
Also, as much as I hate to do this yet again... What Maka said ( quote ) ^^
...k people are still complaining about no offline mode? They don't want to loose money, deal with it move on
/thread
Yes, online only is just an anti-piracy measure, they (and every other video game brand using this) should just stop pretending otherwise.
It is also an anti cheat measure.
Offline mode wouldn't be enough for people, they would also want LAN gaming. Lan gaming means you would have the serverside also on the game client. Now you only have Client side and the server side is securely at blizzard.
Also much of the information in the game comes from the servers. Like loots and monster spawnings etc. Harder to hack looting system when you only receive information from the server and not generate the item itself on the client side.
Sure, but only if they can provide the servers and connectiviy for it...EU servers were unplayable for WEEKS with lagspikes over 5000...they fixed it a couple of weeks ago but it still is laggy as hell
Thats BS.. it was unplayable the first day because you couldn't log in. After that it was 98% of the time fine for me.
I agree with him about the annoyance, but they should have given us a one-time option to transfer, rather than attack offline play by itself. Back then, I didn't have broadband, so I had to balance dial-up bandwidth between the ever-so-flimsy Battle.net. Disconnects were frequent and completely random. Today, broadband is so common that I can't imagine playing offline. There's no reason not to have it (power outages, bad weather, etc), but I would like the choice.
D2 online only would have been a mistake. Reason: availability of internet
D2 was very much online though, and a huge success while we are at it. If i remember correctly it was the start of battlenet.
Didn't say otherwise, though battle.net should have been around since StarCraft. I said, having the offline option for D2 was important because not even flat rates were the norm back then.
Here's the article where Blizzard puts its foot in its mouth.
http://www.pcgamer.c...y-in-diablo-ii/
"I don’t think people necessarily remember how mad they themselves were that they had an offline mode and online mode in Diablo II," Martens said. "This will probably be controversial for me to say. People will be like, 'I wasn’t mad!' But I was there at the time, and then I studied this for a living. It sucks when your friend or brother is online and he wants to join this game, but you realize you’re an offline character and he’s an online character, and there’s no way to transfer over because offline characters can be hacked and hex-edited to hell and back, right?"
Original RPS interview
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/11/13/blizzard-talks-diablo-iiis-new-path-defends-online-req/#more-175898
While I'm sure this situation happened to some people, I think even then most people understood the difference between online and offline characters. And while it sucks to not be able to play online with someone if you've been playing single player only, that's not really a good enough reason to take away the choice.
Granted, there ARE other reasons, but the article makes it sound like that's the only reason. I doubt that's what Kevin is implying.
/thread
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Wise ElderIt would've cost them a ton of sales to go online only. As well, Diablo would've had limited exposure to new players that weren't familiar with the franchise.
I played it offline for years before going online. I was one of those whom was slow to get internet. The online experience made the game come alive, true. But I would've never even known about Diablo 2 if it wasn't offline as well.
All that being said, I'm damn glad it's online only. Diablo 2's worst aspect was a total loss of integrity (online).
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Like i said, they should just stop talking about D2 because they are coming off like they dont like the game at all. Its just bad PR in general.
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Wise ElderYou can't point out the good without pointing out the bad.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC)
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Of course you can. Ignorance is what fuels the internet!
/thread
Oh fine, in the interests of pretending there's an actual discussion to be had here... clearly splitting offline and online causes tension and dissatisfaction in the playerbase. I remember that happening when D2 came out... although it wasn't even close to the reaction to 'always on'. Although I also remember not giving a shit, because I'm mostly a solo player. This stuff is really just an indirect response to player demands for offline and online modes, and IMO anyone with any sense should give up that fight. Blizzard isn't budging.
I really do wish, though, that they'd just own up to the fact that always on has been a very successful form of DRM, and has actually behaved itself better than most (barring the obvious, inevitable and totally avoidable release day issues*), and from that point of view has been a 100% justified decision... they should just cut the bullshit, strap themselves in and say "D3 was an expensive game to make, and we needed to protect than investment. The DRM we implemented cut piracy to zero and minimized player inconvenience, and although it imposed certain restrictions on game design and caused some issues during the initial release we believe it was worth it in the long term.".
* I fully anticipate QQ-storms about connectivity when RoS ships, too. Because people don't learn. Anyone dumb enough to take time off work during release week needs their head checked.
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
That quote?
For what it's worth, the guy in the Blizzard article is saying the problem was having an online mode that was separate from the offline mode, because it segregated online characters from offline characters. On the console version, every character can play online or offline, as the player chooses.
I'm a big believer in the idea that treating a child like an adult encourages them to grow up, so here goes:
1. Blizzard had to use first-party infrastructure rather than their own, so just gave up and just made the console version p2p, which means it's basically the same as the PC version in that a 'single player' is just a one-person multiplayer game, so there's actually no transition to be made between 'online' and 'offline'... it's the same code running off the same character data. The difference is that on PC, that code and data is on their servers, not our computers. It also makes it impossible to guarantee character integrity.
2. The console version was designed to be much more of a short-burn experience, because console-jockeys tend to be fine with much shorter shelf-life for their games than the PC Master Race, so any potential short-circuiting of the BIS-hunt wasn't such a big deal, and with no AH, duped and hacked items could only propagate to the incautious or outright willing rather instantly being available to the entire community.
... and at the risk of pointing out the breathtakingly obvious, the site is called www.diablofans.com, because, you know, girls are allowed.
Well they had closed Bnet for keeping out all those lil tools. It's normal that people will abuse the savegames if they can have them on their own harddrive. No reason against offline mode though. Blizzard knew that this will come, just as they knew it when they released the console versions of D3.
Also, as much as I hate to do this yet again... What Maka said ( quote ) ^^
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Twoflower-2131/hero/47336841
can delete this post
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
It is also an anti cheat measure.
Offline mode wouldn't be enough for people, they would also want LAN gaming. Lan gaming means you would have the serverside also on the game client. Now you only have Client side and the server side is securely at blizzard.
Also much of the information in the game comes from the servers. Like loots and monster spawnings etc. Harder to hack looting system when you only receive information from the server and not generate the item itself on the client side.
Thats BS.. it was unplayable the first day because you couldn't log in. After that it was 98% of the time fine for me.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
D2 online only would have been a mistake. Reason: availability of internet
D3 online only is right. Reason: less game files revealed to reduce cheats
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
D2 was very much online though, and a huge success while we are at it. If i remember correctly it was the start of battlenet.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Twoflower-2131/hero/47336841
Didn't say otherwise, though battle.net should have been around since StarCraft. I said, having the offline option for D2 was important because not even flat rates were the norm back then.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450