I'm going to be working with MLG to help bring Diablo III to GameBattles. We believe in order for this to succeed, some rulesets will need to be put in place [and enforced] to help with potential imbalances and flaws Blizzard will not be resolving in their attempt to remain true to PvE-focused gameplay. With this in mind, I'm open to suggestions -- what kinds of rules would you like to see in Diablo III PvP?
Restrictions on skills/passives isn't actually something I considered, we were too focused on gear "issues." Very good point, I'll have to take that into consideration!
I'll look into whether or not banning pots is something we'll want to do; the cooldown on pots is pretty harsh as it is when you're in a 1v1 environment anyway, maybe allowing pots could be interesting (as I'm sure you'll recall, there was no CD in D2).
For MLG competition the main problem is that Diablo is an open-ended farming game, which makes creating an even, skill-based match very difficult. It's hard to even hand people "standard" gear when even the legendaries and set items are so random, not to mention merchants and crafting.
For a heavily overseen tournament (i.e. local) you can probably invest the money in getting a set of blues with identical stats. If you want player choice in gear though, adjucating that could be a mess.
Another idea would be to find ways to cap what can be spent on the AH. Maybe put a limit on which item tier you can go up on, keeping things down to say level 40 items for example. You can easily visually check with armor if players are respecting the rules, albeit it's harder for jewlery, not to mention socketed marquise gems.
If you wanted a more "sealed deck" type feel (think MTG) you could have each participant craft some mid-level gear at the start of the tourney. Like allowing say one to three of each armor piece to be crafted. Again difficulty enforcing though.
Anyway I agree that gear is really going to be the biggest thing to think about. You'll need to get games going under whatever gear restrictions for a while before you can really get an idea what skills might need banning.
Is anyone trying to iron out a GM Melee rule-set yet? I've been meaning to put some thought to this.
GM? Good mannered? If so, yes: myself and MLG. If no, forgive me.
Yes. It appears I'm talking to the right person. I was heavily involved in GM melee/Zeal duels back in the day. I would love to get together with like minds and make a go at creating our own sub-culture, much as we had with D2.
I would love to hear some ideas.
I have only put a small amount of thought into it so far, but some things that jumped out to me as being necessary rules would be;
No Sweeping Winds. No Control Impairment (fear, cold, stun, knockback, blind etc), making certain items like Echoing Fury, Fist of Az Turassaq, Sledge Fist.....etc, BM.
As far as the rest, skills etc, I would love to hear some feedback on this. Please keep me informed of any formal gatherings on this issue.
- Should have time frame (eg 20 mins max)
- Should be first to reach certain score (lets say 20)
- Should be enforced combat system (like in UFC) where no too much hesitation and running allowed, but focus on combat and exchange of skills
- No spells should be banned
- People are allowed to spec accordingly to their opponent (to counter spells, not to ban them)
- People are allowed to customize gear before the fight according to their opponent (to counter spells, not to ban them)
- Custom made TV counter for deaths / kills
- Custom made "killing spree" notifications
- Enforced colours useage on items by players (as gears allow), or dye on legendaries. For better viewing experience and distinction on mirror matches
- No camping allowed
- No harrasment is allowed in chat. Only allowed dialogue is "GG, GL, HF, WP" etc. and in extreme cases 'PPP' before pausing
- On disconnect the game is paused and returning player is given 10 seconds for adjustment to the map and repositioning
- Depending on the nature of error, player that requested pause is allowed certain time (example 5 minutes) to replace keyboard/mouse/headset etc.
- Visible leaderboard for TV purposes with basic statistics and info (build for example)
- Broadcasters with deep knowledge of the game and good broadcasting skills
Well this is as much as i could think of in 2 mins. Of course, not all is rule related but also related to broadcasting. This is coming from high ranked SC/WC3/SC2/WoW pvp player. If u need more assistance i could provide you with my paypal for donations! :))
I have only put a small amount of thought into it so far, but some things that jumped out to me as being necessary rules would be;
No Sweeping Winds. No Control Impairment (fear, cold, stun, knockback, blind etc), making certain items like Echoing Fury, Fist of Az Turassaq, Sledge Fist.....etc, BM.
As far as the rest, skills etc, I would love to hear some feedback on this. Please keep me informed of any formal gatherings on this issue.
Restricting skills is something that I've gotten a few times, I'll have to seriously consider that, simply because restricting skills will certainly kill particular builds, so I'll have to be careful.
- Should have time frame (eg 20 mins max)
- Should be first to reach certain score (lets say 20)
- Should be enforced combat system (like in UFC) where no too much hesitation and running allowed, but focus on combat and exchange of skills
- No spells should be banned
- People are allowed to spec accordingly to their opponent (to counter spells, not to ban them)
- People are allowed to customize gear before the fight according to their opponent (to counter spells, not to ban them)
- Custom made TV counter for deaths / kills
- Custom made "killing spree" notifications
- Enforced colours useage on items by players (as gears allow), or dye on legendaries. For better viewing experience and distinction on mirror matches
- No camping allowed
- No harrasment is allowed in chat. Only allowed dialogue is "GG, GL, HF, WP" etc. and in extreme cases 'PPP' before pausing
- On disconnect the game is paused and returning player is given 10 seconds for adjustment to the map and repositioning
- Depending on the nature of error, player that requested pause is allowed certain time (example 5 minutes) to replace keyboard/mouse/headset etc.
- Visible leaderboard for TV purposes with basic statistics and info (build for example)
- Broadcasters with deep knowledge of the game and good broadcasting skills
Well this is as much as i could think of in 2 mins. Of course, not all is rule related but also related to broadcasting. This is coming from high ranked SC/WC3/SC2/WoW pvp player. If u need more assistance i could provide you with my paypal for donations! :))
Good stuff, some of these are a given, as they're already in place in MLG for their other GB titles, etc, but definitely!
Hex HAVE TO be banned, I don't know about others, but hex CC for 8s and don't break on damage. Also it always refresh after the effect expires, NO DR, the fetish lasts until the CD is refreshed, that's why is absurd.
Another thing to take in consideration is that diablo 3 have absurd RNG in spells, so a chain in stuns of frenzy (smite) + other warriors stuns to stun locked shouldn't be touched. I mean, it's not because of that that you have to ban a spell for example.
You can cap weapon dps and %crit damage if you like. Keep in mind that there are some interesting builds like hp regen barbs + UP + Warcry with hp regen, and kite for this kind of builds is essencial, so cap this stats may have a downside.
There are two things I do not like:
1. Healing pots
2. Life steal from weapon
You have spells with life steal, ok. But to play with a weapon with life steal + pots and your spells, i dont think it is fair. For ex: fight with a baba which his hp is around 80k+a lot of rez and when you almost take a half of his life after 5 mins of running he will hit you once and his life its almost full and yours below 30% and this is not bcz i dont have enough dps or hp but i dont think its a good ideea to be allowed those in a real tournament.
I'm still considering whether pots should be allowed, I think because of the cooldown that the game already has in place, I may allow it. You can't chug them like you could in D2, which is why they weren't really allowed, you could just spam drink them.
Hex HAVE TO be banned, I don't know about others, but hex CC for 8s and don't break on damage. Also it always refresh after the effect expires, NO DR, the fetish lasts until the CD is refreshed, that's why is absurd.
Truth, I'll have to do some serious looking into this though, as it'll end up restricting builds (depending on the skills and classes). I will note it.
When it comes down to it, some skills just have to be banned. The game was designed with PvE mainly in mind, and that causes great imbalances in characters when they are actually pitted against each other in combat. Hex, as mentioned above, is one such skill that needs to be removed in this case.
Also, you might want to look into banning some passives. I can't think of an example right now *cough* Fierce Loyalty *Cough*, but I'm sure it would be worth looking into.
Potions:
As for potions, I guess I don't really see the big deal with them. Like the OP already said, they have a large cool down on them, and if you are geared out a lot with a lot of LS/LoH, etc, they won't make much of an impact on anyone since the strongest potion heals only 12,500 I think, a number than can be destroyed in a second or so. I say just let them be.
Leagues:
This is more or so preference, but I had an idea for a rule-set concerning gear restrictions:
White League: Players may only use grey-white items. Blue League: Players may only use magic items. Yellow League: Players may only use rare items. Legendary League: Players may only use legendary or set items.
This would allow players to basically filter the sort of items they would be using, and I personally think it would be interesting to see players using strictly legendary items only or full item sets for once.
As for the ccs: Did anyone try to stack cc reduction on gear yet? This could be a highly valuable stat in a pvp situation (obviously only for complete player choice gear). Also, certain passives could be quite strong, for example Pacifism with its 75% damage reduction while cc-ed or Juggernaut with a chance of a good amount of heal. Not to mention that each class has 1-2 spells to break or ignore ccs.
Don't get me wrong, stuff like Hex might still be horribly imbalanced. But maybe its not that bad on a Monk with maybe 60+% cc reduction (I assume thats a reasonable amount if you stack it on a couple of items), pacifism and serenity. Instead of being perma-hexed, he is only hexed 40% of the time, takes only 1/4 damage while being hexed (assuming Pacifism works on Hex) and can break free from every 3rd hex, doesn't sound all that imbalanced on paper.
Pardon me while everyone specs out their characters to specifically deal with Witch Doctors Hex. That's not broken at all, right?
This would eliminate the one shot. If you have 80K life right now, well then you will have 80 Million life to start the fight. I have 200K DPS right now and my highest crit i have seen for my character is 2.5 mil. So if I were to crit every hit, it would still take like 30-35 hits to the opponent to kill him. Now this could be a long fight, but at least it wouldn't be over instantly. And you dont have to nerf or take out any spells. I would love to test this
Lifesteal does not work at level 70 as far as I am aware.
It doesn't. It's reduced to 0% at level 70.
From levels 61-69, it works at a 10% effectiveness. So if you hit one enemyfor 100k damage and has a 3% lifesteal, instead of recovering 3k life, you would recover 300 life currently (versus 600 life before patch 2.0, when it had 20% effectiveness).
I wonder if that will be enough for people to be incentivized to play more Brawling in RoS.
Lifesteal does not work at level 70 as far as I am aware.
It doesn't. It's reduced to 0% at level 70.
From levels 61-69, it works at a 10% effectiveness. So if you hit one enemyfor 100k damage and has a 3% lifesteal, instead of recovering 3k life, you would recover 300 life currently (versus 600 life before patch 2.0, when it had 20% effectiveness).
I wonder if that will be enough for people to be incentivized to play more Brawling in RoS.
The lack of people brawling isn't so much due to a lack of incentives as it is a lack of accessibility. Currently there isn't a unified queuing system for pvp. Instead we have to search for subquests with the brawling tag and even then it is just a zone attached to pve rather than being a zone exclusive to pvp and only pvp. A generalised pvp queuing system button. would work wonders
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Wise ElderArmory | YouTube | Twitter | Clan Site
btw: I hope GB does become active in the D3 community. been a member on GB since 2006
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For a heavily overseen tournament (i.e. local) you can probably invest the money in getting a set of blues with identical stats. If you want player choice in gear though, adjucating that could be a mess.
Another idea would be to find ways to cap what can be spent on the AH. Maybe put a limit on which item tier you can go up on, keeping things down to say level 40 items for example. You can easily visually check with armor if players are respecting the rules, albeit it's harder for jewlery, not to mention socketed marquise gems.
If you wanted a more "sealed deck" type feel (think MTG) you could have each participant craft some mid-level gear at the start of the tourney. Like allowing say one to three of each armor piece to be crafted. Again difficulty enforcing though.
Anyway I agree that gear is really going to be the biggest thing to think about. You'll need to get games going under whatever gear restrictions for a while before you can really get an idea what skills might need banning.
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Wise ElderYes. It appears I'm talking to the right person. I was heavily involved in GM melee/Zeal duels back in the day. I would love to get together with like minds and make a go at creating our own sub-culture, much as we had with D2.
I would love to hear some ideas.
I have only put a small amount of thought into it so far, but some things that jumped out to me as being necessary rules would be;
No Sweeping Winds. No Control Impairment (fear, cold, stun, knockback, blind etc), making certain items like Echoing Fury, Fist of Az Turassaq, Sledge Fist.....etc, BM.
As far as the rest, skills etc, I would love to hear some feedback on this. Please keep me informed of any formal gatherings on this issue.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC)
Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
- Should be first to reach certain score (lets say 20)
- Should be enforced combat system (like in UFC) where no too much hesitation and running allowed, but focus on combat and exchange of skills
- No spells should be banned
- People are allowed to spec accordingly to their opponent (to counter spells, not to ban them)
- People are allowed to customize gear before the fight according to their opponent (to counter spells, not to ban them)
- Custom made TV counter for deaths / kills
- Custom made "killing spree" notifications
- Enforced colours useage on items by players (as gears allow), or dye on legendaries. For better viewing experience and distinction on mirror matches
- No camping allowed
- No harrasment is allowed in chat. Only allowed dialogue is "GG, GL, HF, WP" etc. and in extreme cases 'PPP' before pausing
- On disconnect the game is paused and returning player is given 10 seconds for adjustment to the map and repositioning
- Depending on the nature of error, player that requested pause is allowed certain time (example 5 minutes) to replace keyboard/mouse/headset etc.
- Visible leaderboard for TV purposes with basic statistics and info (build for example)
- Broadcasters with deep knowledge of the game and good broadcasting skills
Well this is as much as i could think of in 2 mins. Of course, not all is rule related but also related to broadcasting. This is coming from high ranked SC/WC3/SC2/WoW pvp player. If u need more assistance i could provide you with my paypal for donations! :))
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Curse PremiumGood stuff, some of these are a given, as they're already in place in MLG for their other GB titles, etc, but definitely!
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Another thing to take in consideration is that diablo 3 have absurd RNG in spells, so a chain in stuns of frenzy (smite) + other warriors stuns to stun locked shouldn't be touched. I mean, it's not because of that that you have to ban a spell for example.
You can cap weapon dps and %crit damage if you like. Keep in mind that there are some interesting builds like hp regen barbs + UP + Warcry with hp regen, and kite for this kind of builds is essencial, so cap this stats may have a downside.
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Curse PremiumTruth, I'll have to do some serious looking into this though, as it'll end up restricting builds (depending on the skills and classes). I will note it.
Diablo III Analyst
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When it comes down to it, some skills just have to be banned. The game was designed with PvE mainly in mind, and that causes great imbalances in characters when they are actually pitted against each other in combat. Hex, as mentioned above, is one such skill that needs to be removed in this case.
Also, you might want to look into banning some passives. I can't think of an example right now *cough* Fierce Loyalty *Cough*, but I'm sure it would be worth looking into.
Potions:
As for potions, I guess I don't really see the big deal with them. Like the OP already said, they have a large cool down on them, and if you are geared out a lot with a lot of LS/LoH, etc, they won't make much of an impact on anyone since the strongest potion heals only 12,500 I think, a number than can be destroyed in a second or so. I say just let them be.
Leagues:
This is more or so preference, but I had an idea for a rule-set concerning gear restrictions:
White League: Players may only use grey-white items.
Blue League: Players may only use magic items.
Yellow League: Players may only use rare items.
Legendary League: Players may only use legendary or set items.
This would allow players to basically filter the sort of items they would be using, and I personally think it would be interesting to see players using strictly legendary items only or full item sets for once.
Pardon me while everyone specs out their characters to specifically deal with Witch Doctors Hex. That's not broken at all, right?
No life steal weapons
All spells and skills and gear are available
Everybody starts the fight with x1000 HP
This would eliminate the one shot. If you have 80K life right now, well then you will have 80 Million life to start the fight. I have 200K DPS right now and my highest crit i have seen for my character is 2.5 mil. So if I were to crit every hit, it would still take like 30-35 hits to the opponent to kill him. Now this could be a long fight, but at least it wouldn't be over instantly. And you dont have to nerf or take out any spells. I would love to test this
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Wise ElderFrom levels 61-69, it works at a 10% effectiveness. So if you hit one enemyfor 100k damage and has a 3% lifesteal, instead of recovering 3k life, you would recover 300 life currently (versus 600 life before patch 2.0, when it had 20% effectiveness).
I wonder if that will be enough for people to be incentivized to play more Brawling in RoS.