Okay, I've read a lot of threads saying that the last class will be some sort of Rogue // Amazon type thing.
The whole point of this thread is to discuss how it won't be (or for you to prove me wrong). I will be using logic and citations to prove my case. Please be mature and discuss rationally.
We've seen several archetypes thus far in what Blizzard has released:
~Barbarian - Sword and Shield type pure Melee warrior
~Witch Doctor - Enemy Manipulation, Damage over Time, and minion creator
~Wizard - Pure caster
~Monk - Speed Powerhouse
And Damage Archetypes being;
~Pure Strong Melee (Barbarian)
~Disease and Fire (Witch Doctor)
~Lightning, Arcane, Cold (Wizard)
~Holy and Fast, Weaker Melee (Monk)
Being that each class is capable of decimating its opponent at all ranges, we can safely assume that the last class will be able to do that very same thing. Based on this strand of logic, the last class cannot be a pure ranged class.
Now, someone had pointed out to me earlier that a short bow was shown as a dropped item in the Barbarian gameplay trailer at around 3:55. That is an excellent counterpoint, but the only issue is that the game has evolved quite a bit since then. To illustrate my point, I challenge you to find a Staff, some type of Claw-type weapon, or a wizard's orb in any of the previous videos, before the class was announced. I watched each video closely and didn't find it at all. Why? The game has changed tremendously.
So, now that I've finally laid my claim, I challenge you all to an honest debate as to why I'm wrong.
There will be claw weapons(fist weapons), there is evena rt work of them on diablo 3 official site, lol.
think harder people. first of all blizzard is definitely not going to just erase ranged weapons from the game. so there is going to be a ranged class. i apologize to oathofchaos but i disagree. however i don't think that its going to be the same old arrow/javalin slinger like in D2. If you look at the already existing classes, the only one to survive was the barbarian only because it sucked in D2 and they felt they should revamp it to be an awesome slaughter machine we all expect a barbarian to be. i think its going to be something completely different. but still utilizing the ranged weapons.
Being that each class is capable of decimating its opponent at all ranges, we can safely assume that the last class will be able to do that very same thing. Based on this strand of logic, the last class cannot be a pure ranged class.
The amazon was able to dominate at pretty much any range (even with a bow/xbow). Yea.. if someone gets too close she goes down pretty quick, but so will a monk. A glass cannon ranged class fits perfectly with what we already have and I'd be disappointed if they decide not to have an amazonish class. You may be right tho. The 5th class could have a melee potential the way the amazon kind of did with spears and javs, but I doubt you will be able to effectively hybrid melee and range.
While I would love to see a Bladesinger type character (Swords & traditional magic) with shiny armor, I think we'll probably end up with a physical damage specialist that is a compilation of D1 Rogue/D2 Assassin/D2 Druid.
I'd drool over a sword wielding heap of metal infused by the secrets of the Horadrim, though. You know, the one dude that managed to stay awhile and listen.
I'm just not that interested in any of the classes that are on the list right now. Questioning whether I am motivated enough to really even play come 2025. That's another thread entirely, though. For in your face action, Barbarian is just not my cup of tea. Give me a Knight, or some blend.
Actually a ranged class can be fairly strong in close combat just like casters. When someone gets closer the ranged attacker have a much higher chance to hit his missiles attacks.
Also noone said the ranged class is 100% pure range class user. Again the amazon have a possible melee spec (Spear) and Shield Rogues was fairly good in D1.
I agree with the part that said it's not going to be a pure ranged class. I think it's going to have the ability for range, and have the bow as a main weapon. But I think that it will also have some usefull skills for close combat as well. I'm not sure that anyone thought that the Ranger class was going to be an all-out, stay as far away from enemies as much as possible or your screwed, type of character.
Diablo 3 is going to be a single player game as well, so you won't have a tank taking damage while you sit back and spam. There's going to be times where you get trapped and have to bash you way out with some close-quarters melee or skills.
there won't be guns.
there will be bows.
the last class will be primarily ranged.
right now the wizard is the only primarily ranged class, so the game needs one more. the wd is kind of ranged, but summons melee fighters. barb's obv all melee, and the monk seems to be quite melee-oriented.
there's honestly not a lot of room on a screen for another mellee-type char. it'd be hectic as hell watching the clickfest on screen of 5 characters thrashing around.
You want me to challenge your logic??? Ok, my question to you is why wouldn't a ranged class be able to hold their own in any type, close range or distant, of battle. Throw in a few defensive skills, stuns and crowd control options and would it really matter if you are shooting a bow 1 inch away from a mob? Look at the witch doctor, does he look like some type of brute that can take massive damage at close range? No he is a debuffer type guy who uses indirect ways to deal damage... I don't know about you but if a bunch of frogs can keep me going at close range then for sure a sharp arrow that can explode will do the job.
Also if your talking archetypes wouldn't a ranged fighter be close to the top of the list of basic archetypes? Face it blizzard has to satisfy those who preffer to use a bow, maybe they know how to play well at long range and still pwn at close range, maybe because they have skill. If every class was just as effective as the other in any situation then what would be the point of even having classes? If a wizard could stand right infront of diablo and spam magic missle and a barbarian could kite diablo while using seismic slam, what would be the point of having uniqe archetypes at all? Might as well just have one char to choose from and let him choose what ever skill he wants. I know that every class can hold their own in any range but can they be effective at every range? Can a barb dish out some real damage if his target is 20 feet away from him? NO, he has to be close enough so his axe can cut through his targets heart. Can a wizard even deal some spell damage if she keeps getting hit, and keeps worrying about her health,? NO, she has to back away, or teleport, or stun, or freeze her enemy so that she can spam some good Dmg dealing spells.
Why do you even think that if blizzard made a range class it wouldnt be able to hold its own in close range? Even a PURE ranged class would no doubt have some skills that protect them and dish dmg at close range. And lets not forget a ranged class is meant to kill stuff befor they even get close. And we know that blizzard will do some thing like the amazon where you can choose a bow or another melee wep or something if they were to make a ranged class. I played a bowazon in D2 and i had no problem, i was able to kill everything close and far and i doubt it wouldnt be the same way in D3.
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This series wouldn't be complete without a primary ranged class. I'm still standing by my prediction that it will be a class that uses bow attacks for ranged and traps for up-close combat and/or to keep monsters at a distance. It would give it that unique playstyle the devs are going for with each class, being proactive with trap placement. A Hunter would be the most fitting archetype.
Also look at the color schemes of the known classes, it's almost certain that the last one will have a green tent which also kind of implies a class tied to "nature", ala Hunter of Ranger.
That line that Jay stated about "a character from the past" though kind of throws a loop in all this. My guess would be tha rogue captain in Act 1, but she's a rogue and as we've all heard over and over again, the barb is the only one returning from the past. Plus, really how can it be a character from the past when each class is going to have a male and female version. I haven't played D1 nor D2 in a while but does anyone remember any brother and sister NPCs from the past games????
A druid who uses a bow as ranged and can shapeshift into something to be melee, and we are all happy living in peace running across the rainbows along with the unicorns.
No, I really think that kind of class is a possibility
Since Jay said it may be a returning character from the past, and from what I read, everyone wants a ranged user with some good melee skills, I am going out and saying this:
The Valkyrie.
The summon of the amazon, it is a heavily clad warrior who uses a spear, but Im sure they could make her use a shield and sword as well as a bow or xbow. It is a returning character and I feel it fits in what is missing with the classes. The only thing Im not sure is the backstory. What do you guys think? (Also, they could leave traps for an expansion character, they dont need to cover ALL the bases)
I believe it will be the Hunter from WoW. I'm not joking either it's perfectly balance a ranged class witha pet summoning ability so those pets can attack up close and keep the enemies at bay while the hunter stays back and fires the bow. It is a very logical choice because there will be no returning DIABLO classes, they didn't say anything bout wow.
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I believe it will be the Hunter from WoW. I'm not joking either it's perfectly balance a ranged class witha pet summoning ability so those pets can attack up close and keep the enemies at bay while the hunter stays back and fires the bow. It is a very logical choice because there will be no returning DIABLO classes, they didn't say anything bout wow.
You cannot be further from the truth. This next class won't have the ability to summon, the Witch Doc already has that power and i doubt they're going to translate that onto their other characters.
I believe it will be the Hunter from WoW. I'm not joking either it's perfectly balance a ranged class witha pet summoning ability so those pets can attack up close and keep the enemies at bay while the hunter stays back and fires the bow. It is a very logical choice because there will be no returning DIABLO classes, they didn't say anything bout wow.
I doubt.. it would probably cause another petition
They should be more imaginative.. and they said at the panels that they try to create something very different that has ever been seen in RPG games. Just like that Monk.. there has been monks in many RPG games but nothing like what blizzard creates.
There might be hunterish character but I'd more likely guess a mix of amazons bow skills/ assasins traps and melee
I agree with the OP's idea. While I believe the last character will primarily use ranged attacks, he or she will be flexible enough to mix in melee.
It's given that ranged weapons will be available in the game, and not just for hirelings. Being able to go almost purely ranged is therefore a strong option.
On the other hand, look at the revealed skill trees for the Barbarian and Wizard. The OP's logic is sound based on those trees. The Wizard not only has close proximity attacks, but a few spells even seem to encourage players to try a melee-based play style (I myself am tempted by this). And when I first saw the videos for the Barbarian's skills, I kept thinking "These are all 'ranged' attacks!"
It seems Blizz is giving each character in the game a lot of customizable options. From what we've seen, you can pick a character class then play it almost whatever way you want, to the point that no two characters of the same class but by different players will be alike.
If so, where the last class may ordinarily or usually be played as a ranged attacker, melee options will still strongly and viably exist.
I really think d3 is lacking a heavy armored guy with a shield, like a Paladin, a knight, something like that.
I don't see why the last class has to be ranged based either, as i think bowazons are too "hit and run" for the game play style like diablo has.
i can see them concentrating on that "heck just jump in the middle and kill the guys" point of view for the most chars, even the wizard on the game play is quite a "forward" class related to d2 sorc. the Wizard although using many spells, she runs, get on the middle of the battle and handles itself well without HIDING behind the magic.
The whole MONK concept couldn't be a better signal of that philosophy.
and, when i see the stereotypes, it really lacks a full armored knight/paladin. the Warrior on d1 was much more a knight than a barb... And this stereotype is very much in all Diablo Lore.
we need something that contrasts with the monk. The barb by itself is the brute force tank, no need to contrast.
the WD kinda contrasts with the wizard now. the WD seems to be more like "sit and watch" because of the summons.
the monk has this great deal of speed but very fragile.
what contrasts with it ? a heavier armored, slower guy,?
or a ranged guy ?
putting a rogue would be to put another fragile class, d2 had two resistant classes (barb pala) a half way (amazon) and 2 weaker (sorc, necro). because that influences a lot the play style. some people prefer resistant classes and others not.
WD seems to be a good half way. i really see him doing the job of the amazon's role as a fairly resistant class.
so in my opinion, some knight type of thing.
but from another point of view...
we have a brute force (barb)
a "death commander" (WD)
an element shaper (wizard)
a holy guy (monk)
and where are the forces of the nature?
but i think that would be just overkill, need another more resistant class. is a very different deal to play a barb/pala and to play a sorc/necro, everybody knows.
and some people just plays one type, not having a knight-type would be a turn off to many guys
I really think d3 is lacking a heavy armored guy with a shield, like a Paladin, a knight, something like that.
I don't see why the last class has to be ranged based either, as i think bowazons are too "hit and run" for the game play style like diablo has.
i can see them concentrating on that "heck just jump in the middle and kill the guys" point of view for the most chars, even the wizard on the game play is quite a "forward" class related to d2 sorc. the Wizard although using many spells, she runs, get on the middle of the battle and handles itself well without HIDING behind the magic.
The whole MONK concept couldn't be a better signal of that philosophy.
and, when i see the stereotypes, it really lacks a full armored knight/paladin. the Warrior on d1 was much more a knight than a barb... And this stereotype is very much in all Diablo Lore.
we need something that contrasts with the monk. The barb by itself is the brute force tank, no need to contrast.
the WD kinda contrasts with the wizard now. the WD seems to be more like "sit and watch" because of the summons.
the monk has this great deal of speed but very fragile.
what contrasts with it ? a heavier armored, slower guy,?
or a ranged guy ?
putting a rogue would be to put another fragile class, d2 had two resistant classes (barb pala) a half way (amazon) and 2 weaker (sorc, necro). because that influences a lot the play style. some people prefer resistant classes and others not.
WD seems to be a good half way. i really see him doing the job of the amazon's role as a fairly resistant class.
so in my opinion, some knight type of thing.
but from another point of view...
we have a brute force (barb)
a "death commander" (WD)
an element shaper (wizard)
a holy guy (monk)
and where are the forces of the nature?
but i think that would be just overkill, need another more resistant class. is a very different deal to play a barb/pala and to play a sorc/necro, everybody knows.
and some people just plays one type, not having a knight-type would be a turn off to many guys
I too agree there needs to be a "knightly" class, and I was actually hoping the one previously revealed would have been that, but with a different twist than the Paladin. To me the "shiny armor class" is just as important to the series in being a contrast to the D man himself. I guess this new blizz team doesn't agree. It would seem that they've bumped the Barb into that armored tank role now, but he's always seemed more like a bulldozer of muscle rather than a tanking machine to me.
On topic, this last class is not going to be an exclusively ranged attacker but will definitely be PRIMARILY ranged in its attacks. Even with the promise of being innovative with class design (though the previous games didn't follow that philosophy), the devs still have to cater to an audience in which ranged classes are very popular with. In the end it's not about making a game to fit them, it's about making a game that supplies the playerbases wants, and a large portion of them want a PRIMARILY ranged class.
lol, coming from blizzard, i can imagine that
There will be claw weapons(fist weapons), there is evena rt work of them on diablo 3 official site, lol.
The amazon was able to dominate at pretty much any range (even with a bow/xbow). Yea.. if someone gets too close she goes down pretty quick, but so will a monk. A glass cannon ranged class fits perfectly with what we already have and I'd be disappointed if they decide not to have an amazonish class. You may be right tho. The 5th class could have a melee potential the way the amazon kind of did with spears and javs, but I doubt you will be able to effectively hybrid melee and range.
I'd drool over a sword wielding heap of metal infused by the secrets of the Horadrim, though. You know, the one dude that managed to stay awhile and listen.
I'm just not that interested in any of the classes that are on the list right now. Questioning whether I am motivated enough to really even play come 2025. That's another thread entirely, though. For in your face action, Barbarian is just not my cup of tea. Give me a Knight, or some blend.
Also noone said the ranged class is 100% pure range class user. Again the amazon have a possible melee spec (Spear) and Shield Rogues was fairly good in D1.
Diablo 3 is going to be a single player game as well, so you won't have a tank taking damage while you sit back and spam. There's going to be times where you get trapped and have to bash you way out with some close-quarters melee or skills.
there will be bows.
the last class will be primarily ranged.
right now the wizard is the only primarily ranged class, so the game needs one more. the wd is kind of ranged, but summons melee fighters. barb's obv all melee, and the monk seems to be quite melee-oriented.
there's honestly not a lot of room on a screen for another mellee-type char. it'd be hectic as hell watching the clickfest on screen of 5 characters thrashing around.
Also if your talking archetypes wouldn't a ranged fighter be close to the top of the list of basic archetypes? Face it blizzard has to satisfy those who preffer to use a bow, maybe they know how to play well at long range and still pwn at close range, maybe because they have skill. If every class was just as effective as the other in any situation then what would be the point of even having classes? If a wizard could stand right infront of diablo and spam magic missle and a barbarian could kite diablo while using seismic slam, what would be the point of having uniqe archetypes at all? Might as well just have one char to choose from and let him choose what ever skill he wants. I know that every class can hold their own in any range but can they be effective at every range? Can a barb dish out some real damage if his target is 20 feet away from him? NO, he has to be close enough so his axe can cut through his targets heart. Can a wizard even deal some spell damage if she keeps getting hit, and keeps worrying about her health,? NO, she has to back away, or teleport, or stun, or freeze her enemy so that she can spam some good Dmg dealing spells.
Why do you even think that if blizzard made a range class it wouldnt be able to hold its own in close range? Even a PURE ranged class would no doubt have some skills that protect them and dish dmg at close range. And lets not forget a ranged class is meant to kill stuff befor they even get close. And we know that blizzard will do some thing like the amazon where you can choose a bow or another melee wep or something if they were to make a ranged class. I played a bowazon in D2 and i had no problem, i was able to kill everything close and far and i doubt it wouldnt be the same way in D3.
Also look at the color schemes of the known classes, it's almost certain that the last one will have a green tent which also kind of implies a class tied to "nature", ala Hunter of Ranger.
That line that Jay stated about "a character from the past" though kind of throws a loop in all this. My guess would be tha rogue captain in Act 1, but she's a rogue and as we've all heard over and over again, the barb is the only one returning from the past. Plus, really how can it be a character from the past when each class is going to have a male and female version. I haven't played D1 nor D2 in a while but does anyone remember any brother and sister NPCs from the past games????
No, I really think that kind of class is a possibility
Hunter would have range skills to go with Traps and some sort of Animal/Nature summon?
While the Ranger would be more of a Sniper incorporating Archery and Stealth.
I actually hope it is the Druid because they can really revamp that Class up to be more bad ass.
The Valkyrie.
The summon of the amazon, it is a heavily clad warrior who uses a spear, but Im sure they could make her use a shield and sword as well as a bow or xbow. It is a returning character and I feel it fits in what is missing with the classes. The only thing Im not sure is the backstory. What do you guys think? (Also, they could leave traps for an expansion character, they dont need to cover ALL the bases)
You cannot be further from the truth. This next class won't have the ability to summon, the Witch Doc already has that power and i doubt they're going to translate that onto their other characters.
Battle not with monsters lest you become one.
They should be more imaginative.. and they said at the panels that they try to create something very different that has ever been seen in RPG games. Just like that Monk.. there has been monks in many RPG games but nothing like what blizzard creates.
There might be hunterish character but I'd more likely guess a mix of amazons bow skills/ assasins traps and melee
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
It's given that ranged weapons will be available in the game, and not just for hirelings. Being able to go almost purely ranged is therefore a strong option.
On the other hand, look at the revealed skill trees for the Barbarian and Wizard. The OP's logic is sound based on those trees. The Wizard not only has close proximity attacks, but a few spells even seem to encourage players to try a melee-based play style (I myself am tempted by this). And when I first saw the videos for the Barbarian's skills, I kept thinking "These are all 'ranged' attacks!"
It seems Blizz is giving each character in the game a lot of customizable options. From what we've seen, you can pick a character class then play it almost whatever way you want, to the point that no two characters of the same class but by different players will be alike.
If so, where the last class may ordinarily or usually be played as a ranged attacker, melee options will still strongly and viably exist.
I don't see why the last class has to be ranged based either, as i think bowazons are too "hit and run" for the game play style like diablo has.
i can see them concentrating on that "heck just jump in the middle and kill the guys" point of view for the most chars, even the wizard on the game play is quite a "forward" class related to d2 sorc. the Wizard although using many spells, she runs, get on the middle of the battle and handles itself well without HIDING behind the magic.
The whole MONK concept couldn't be a better signal of that philosophy.
and, when i see the stereotypes, it really lacks a full armored knight/paladin. the Warrior on d1 was much more a knight than a barb... And this stereotype is very much in all Diablo Lore.
we need something that contrasts with the monk. The barb by itself is the brute force tank, no need to contrast.
the WD kinda contrasts with the wizard now. the WD seems to be more like "sit and watch" because of the summons.
the monk has this great deal of speed but very fragile.
what contrasts with it ? a heavier armored, slower guy,?
or a ranged guy ?
putting a rogue would be to put another fragile class, d2 had two resistant classes (barb pala) a half way (amazon) and 2 weaker (sorc, necro). because that influences a lot the play style. some people prefer resistant classes and others not.
WD seems to be a good half way. i really see him doing the job of the amazon's role as a fairly resistant class.
so in my opinion, some knight type of thing.
but from another point of view...
we have a brute force (barb)
a "death commander" (WD)
an element shaper (wizard)
a holy guy (monk)
and where are the forces of the nature?
but i think that would be just overkill, need another more resistant class. is a very different deal to play a barb/pala and to play a sorc/necro, everybody knows.
and some people just plays one type, not having a knight-type would be a turn off to many guys
I too agree there needs to be a "knightly" class, and I was actually hoping the one previously revealed would have been that, but with a different twist than the Paladin. To me the "shiny armor class" is just as important to the series in being a contrast to the D man himself. I guess this new blizz team doesn't agree. It would seem that they've bumped the Barb into that armored tank role now, but he's always seemed more like a bulldozer of muscle rather than a tanking machine to me.
On topic, this last class is not going to be an exclusively ranged attacker but will definitely be PRIMARILY ranged in its attacks. Even with the promise of being innovative with class design (though the previous games didn't follow that philosophy), the devs still have to cater to an audience in which ranged classes are very popular with. In the end it's not about making a game to fit them, it's about making a game that supplies the playerbases wants, and a large portion of them want a PRIMARILY ranged class.
-Voltaire