BS. Free trade already failed.
- Jamoose
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Last active Fri, Jul, 28 2023 17:34:38
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Solmyr77 posted a message on Free trade or riotPosted in: Diablo III General Discussion -
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Nephal3m posted a message on Some truth about the DH [Optimal Build]1. Combination of Bola Shot and EB Spike Trap > Rapid Fire. Why?Posted in: Demon Hunter: The Dreadlands
1.1. It does more DPS to packs and elite enemies over time.
RF may give you the illusion that it deals more damage because you see the target's health bar going down fast at a regular pace. The thing with Bola Shot + EB Spike Trap is that the damage is dealt in bursts. Mean bursts.
1.2. It generates more discipline.
RF has a poor proc rate, i.e. it doesn't trigger Night Stalker as often as Bola Shot + EB Spike Trap. As a result, with RF you will either use significantly less discipline skills, and often run out of discipline in the middle of the action, or use the Preparation skill which is a complete waste. Skill slots are precious when you want to create a build that can face any bloody situation. Bola Shot + EB Spike Trap generates a lot more discipline with Night Stalker. 1.3. Serious synergy of Bola Shot w/ Thunder Ball (Stun Bola) and EB Spike Trap.
The Bola stuns elites long enough for the spike traps to activate and shred them. You just keep shooting the bolas, stun, and see your traps activating multiple times. 1.4. Great area damage. 2. Smoke Screen w/ Chocking Gas > Vault w/ Trail of Cinders. Both deal damage over time, both get you out of jail, so why? 2.1. When you use Vault, you kind of stop improving your basic movement skills such has rolls, and anticipated, well oriented controlled runs. 2.2. During Smoke Screen, you are invincible. 2.3. Smoke Screen breaks most (all?) status effects. 2.4. You can change direction during Smoke Screen. If you are vaulting to a spot that has suddenly become fatal, you will have to vault again thus spending a lot more discipline. 2.5. Chocking Gas is damage-wise similar to the famous "runeless" Rain of Vengeance (700 damage over 5 seconds), with the difference that the damage is dealt in a small, concentrated area. I love face tanking a couple large enemies for a moment (with Shadow Power on), shooting my bolas and launching my traps under them, and then dropping a deadly chocking gas cloud on my way to change position. 3. Shadow Power w/ Night Bane + Guardian Turret combo > Gloom + Bat combo. Why? 3.1. When Night Bane is active, it's like having a bat for 5 seconds, i.e. you generate 3 hatred/sec. During these 5 seconds, you can generate enough discipline to use it again when needed. 3.2. Gloom has a 5-second 25% incoming damage reduction. You compensate this loss with the 30-second 15% damage reduction from the Guardian Turret. 3.3. The Guardian Turret deals a lot more damage than the Bat! 3.4. You can use the Boar companion instead of the Bat. Excellent skill for survivability. You don't like dying in one shot from an unexpected bull charge, do you? Just use the Boar companion with the Perfectionist passive, that combo + the basic life regen of Shadow Power and you can adopt a satisfying Panzer-like play style. -
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Nephal3m posted a message on Some truth about the DH [Optimal Build]Posted in: Demon Hunter: The DreadlandsLet me know how it goes. For this build I use a high damage bow (the Raven's Wing -- there are some great ones on PS3) and the Archery passive for the 15% increased damage.
One-handed crossbows would deal significantly less damage but it would work; with one-handers, provided that your critical hit chance is already above 70%, I'd use Custom Engineering instead of Archery since the increased attack speed means more discipline, and thus the ability to drop more spike traps, and at a higher pace. If your critical hit chance is at 65% or below though, go with Archery.
You could also play it with the Manticore. Although the attack speed is quite slower than with the bow, it's still works fine. Instead of Archery, in that case I'd go with either:
(a) Numbing Trap
Since the attack speed is reduced, you stun a bit less often, and get hit a bit more, so the 20% damage reduction from enemies hit by the turret and traps (meaning all enemies) gives you a tad more survivability so you can still blow them to pieces, or(b) Vengeance
For the extra discipline from globes, as well as the great boost in hatred, since you'd generate less discipline over time with a two-handed crossbow.Cheers!
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stevedoctor posted a message on Free trade or riotPosted in: Diablo III General DiscussionAll of this crap is coming from streamers. Of course they want trade so they can get gear from their viewers then complain a week later about how they geared up too quickly.
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mannercookie posted a message on Freeze Barb Spec (T6 Closed Beta on Farm)Posted in: Barbarian: Bastion's Keep -
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Kryztalsong posted a message on Insane Shrine ExploitPosted in: Diablo III General DiscussionI'm not buying that difficulty system change as a reason for the abysmally low drop rate, for one reason only. From normal through master mode, there is absolutely zero change in legendary drop rates; that doesn't happen until torment. In that case, there was no reason to drop the legendary drop rate far below that of live on the PTR. I can understand tweaking the drop rates for torment difficulties, where the difficulty level does actually matter, but having actually participated in this thread's exploit, I have seen just how bad the drop rates really are.
We would go anywhere from 200 to 300 (occasionally more) champ packs without seeing a legendary drop, and often, the only drop would be a legendary crafting material. Think about the time that you would spend without the exploit to farm the same number of champ packs, and then compare that to live. A very significant difference when the motto of RoS seems to be more, improved legendaries.
Everyone, including Blizz, knows that the legendary drop rate is terrible on the PTR, and it will be buffed; that's not the issue. It does, however, have many of us wondering, just wtf were they thinking, lol? Barring any tinfoil hat theories, I'm leaning toward the idea that somebody just flat out forgot that MF was being nerfed with regards to legendaries, and so we have what we now have. It's beta, things happen, no biggie; kinda comical, imo. Trying to somehow rationalize it as it being what Blizz intended, well, to each their own opinion.
Edit: Over the course of about 3 hours, give or take a little bit for breaks, and constantly using this exploit, I came out of it with 14 legendary crafting materials and 9 actual legendary items. MF of 260%. Just numbers for those who care. And yeah, ematanis, there is a lot of room to play with, I think, especially with cursed chests; it'll be interesting to see if they capitalize on things like that or not.
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ematanis posted a message on Insane Shrine ExploitPosted in: Diablo III General DiscussionRemember they are trying new difficulty system which increases drop rates of legendaries at certain level , also with removal of MF , they have to test it out , not only what they think is the right drop chance , but also what the community thinks and how it works with the new density(they probably were testing this too).
Also the new changes to weapon damage and stats and removal of crushing blow , too many changes from last patch to put it simply as drop chance numbers.Raw numbers don't usually work out perfectly in reality as they did in theory.
Edit : After watching Kingkongor with Invis and exploiting the shrine at T3 and 6 , and everybody seems to be having fun , why not fix it so that it is no longer a bug and make something similar but intended.
Remove the possibility to enter Izzual's level a million times or remove the shrine there , but allow the shrines to spawn 3-4 packs with the legendary , or since they want the Cursed Chests to be the new thing , then maybe they should consider adding this intense champion pack density to them after certain wave.(Many things can be done to cursed chests to make them fun). -
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RasAlgethi24 posted a message on Insane Shrine ExploitPosted in: Diablo III General DiscussionGood on you for reporting it. How did you get such high mf in ros?
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Edriel posted a message on [Suggestions]: Wave of Death, Defence of the Outpost and Infernal RiftLink to U.S. Forums Thread: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/10949674935#1Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
Link to EU English Forums Thread: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8965947786 highly rated Link to Italian Forums Thread: http://eu.battle.net/d3/it/forum/topic/8965497773 Link to Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/1t4f9u/suggestions_wave_of_death_defence_of_the_outpost/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Edit: Player ShadowAegis in the U.S. forums suggested a really nice way to get great endgame ideas (such as DamienJohn and MrMonstrosity's ones) into the game.
I really liked his idea so I will put what he wrote just under here: "I could go for those challenge modes and I will give you a personal opinion. My take is real simple I say that those ideas and others like them can be handled in the following ways.
Let's say that with you and others brainstorming the devs could come up with around 20 such ideas.
Then the devs could take a poll and similar to the design a legendaries. Then the 10 with the most votes would be added in. Then out of those ten players could vote once more on which ones would be ladder only. Then the five with the most votes wins a place on the ladder only challenge modes.
I think that having challenges modes that are ladder only as well as having some non ladder would be great for this game. What does the rest of you think." http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/10949674935#8 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi everyone!
I'm here again to suggest some ideas I had.
I know that one of them is a very popular requested feature (and suggested many times) and the others "might" sound similar but I think that I found some interesting ways to make them feel unique.
This is the first time I suggest an idea and throw it out to the "public" before hearing the feedback of the italian community (except the last suggestion) so I really don't know how this will end but in case you will like it, please click on the thumb just under my avatar on the left of this post, thank you
Prepare yourselves because this is a MASSIVE post with LOADS of images.
As always I apologise for my english.
TLDR Version at the end of the post.
Wave of Death
This is one of the most popular features that this community would like to have in the game.
It's an "arena" where you have to fight waves of monsters.
But my suggestion gets a bit deeper and extends the difficulty based upon the player skills/gear/luck (yeah a bit of luck is always required :P)..
Let's have a look on the first image:
As you can see the difficulty is disabled because monsters will increase their strength as long as you survive in the arena.
So how do you extend the difficulty of this mode?
It's easy. Simply click on the "change" in the "Options" pane and:
In the "details" pane you can see the differences between the "type of monsters you're going to fight against".
If the player chooses "Normal" monsters he will face:
- normal monsters waves (this means that "normal" waves are composed by normal monsters)
- 1 elite pack every 5 waves
- 1 boss every 20 waves
- no random spawns
Note: random spawns are random generated monsters that have a chance to be spawned in addition to the wave: random spawns might be normal monsters, elite minions, elite packs or bosses
What happens if the player chooses one of the other "monsters type"?
Note: remember from now on that the numbers/values on the pictures are just examples
I think that the "Extreme" monsters are gonna be hard for everyone, even for the hardcorer of hardcore players.
Of course you don't do this just for the glory but for the competition because Wave of Death (much like the other two modes) will have a classification for the best players in the world based upon waves cleared, monster type selection and number of party members.
Defence of the Outpost
The name might remember you Defence of the Ancients but the game is not a MOBA and only the name is similar
WHAT IS DEFENCE OF THE OUTPOST?
Defence of the Outpost or DotO is similar to a "monsters wave" game but it's very different in philosophy.
You have to destroy the Demonic Shards that are the cause of the demonic invasion on the region.
Unfortunately there are many villagers and soldiers that ask for help so you have also to protect them.
So your mission is to protect the soldiers while at the same time put an end to the demonic invasion by destroying the Demonic Shards.
HOW DOES DEFENCE OF THE OUTPOST WORK?
When the player enters the game he will be inside the outpost. To start the "real game" he has to accept the first quest:
Note: the first quest will always be a "defend the villagers" quest because villagers play a very important role in DotO:
for every villager saved you gain one resource and resources are necessary to upgrade the outpost and to train new soldiers and improve their equipment.
These upgrades require quite some time to finish but the more villagers you have the faster you will finish them.
As I said earlier this game is like a "monster waves" game so you will have endless waves of enemies and every wave will have an increased quantity of monsters.
So the more you take to destroy the Demonic Shards the more difficult the game is going to be.
Every wave is composed by a set number of attacks (as you can see from the image) and if you kill all monsters of an attack before the time expires, the new attack will start istantly.
If on the other side you cannot kill all monsters before the time expires well... you will have to fight more monsters and this might lead to dramatic soldiers losses.
You can also notice in the image that there is a debuff called "Demonic Influence".
This debuff decreases your effectiveness in combat and you can free yourself from it only when you destroy the Demonic Shard.
Note: in this case you will win the game if you destroy the shard because there is only one to destroy but there is an option that allows you to increase the Demonic Shards you have to destroy (more on this later).
Every shard reduces your effectiveness in combat by 20% (example).
What happens next?
As you can see when the last attack has been cleared the countdown for the next wave begins (remember that the countdown starts in any case even if there are monsters left to kill).
This is the perfect time to go outside the outpost and try to find and destroy the Demonic Shard or accept new side-quests or upgrade the soldiers and the outpost.
SIDE-QUESTS AND UPGRADES
The player decides to go inside the chapel:
Cylai (the NPC with the yellow exclamation mark) will be the "side-quest giver":
these quests are repeatable and will allow the player to "obtain" new villagers, soldiers or powerful temporary buffs.
On side-quests you have to do different things around the map (outside the outpost) like "free the imprisoned villagers", "help the soldiers and recruit them for your cause", "kill mob X to gain a powerful buff" and so on.
The player can choose which quest to accept but he can only have one active at any one time.
In addition if the player has an active side-quest he cannot upgrade.
Note: basically you have two choices: accept a side-quest or upgrade/train your soldiers/outpost/villagers.
Of course the player can decide to go for a quest or for an upgrade while under siege but this will expose the outpost (in the case he's around the map to complete a quest) or the villagers (in the case of an upgrade) to massive danger.
If the player decides to upgrade he can talk to Sylmo (the NPC in front of the barbarian in the image):
Here you can see how many resources are available, how many villagers there are in the outpost, how much the upgrade time reduction is (3% time reduction per villager) and at what ranks are the soldiers' equipment and the outpost (maximum rank is 4 for both).
I think I don't need to explain much more as the image is quite clear so let's have a look on the various situations:
As you can see, the player decided to upgrade the soldiers' equipment but the time-choice for the upgrade was not good as the outpost is under attack.
This will make the defence much harder since not only he has to protect the soldiers but also the villagers because if you have no villagers left the upgrade won't finish until you save other villagers.
Note: this means that you cannot accept new side-quests (because you are upgrading) and you have to cancel the upgrade and start it over again once you have at least one villager. Also resources spent for the upgrade are lost forever.
Once the upgrade is complete all soldiers will have different visuals:
Equipment Rank 1:
Equipment Rank 2:
Equipment Rank 3:
Equipment Rank 4:
As you can see the number of soldiers has increased to 5.
This is because the player trained the villagers:
Note: The training villagers are the "templar-like" NPCs on the left. They won't attack enemies as they're still villagers.. so you have to protect them until they finish the training.
Now let's have a look on the last upgrade you can make:
How will your outpost look like when the upgrade is finished?
Outpost Rank 1:
Note: as you can see once you have upgraded the outpost to be at least "rank 1" you will receive a "global" buff that will diminish the effects of Demonic Influence.
I think you also noticed that the banner has two additional little flags on both sides. This is a suggestion to have "clan banners" - the little flags represents the clan flag.
Outpost Rank 2:
Outpost Rank 3:
Outpost Rank 4:
Once the player is prepared and confidend to leave the outpost he can finally go and destroy the Demonic Shard.
When he finds it he has first to kill the boss that makes the Shard invulnerable and then he can destroy the shard itself and claim victory.
Victory can be sweet and inside the outpost chapel you will find a new room filled with treasure... much like this one:
Note: this is just an example of how the treasure room should look like. The treasure will be based upon difficulty, outpost starting conditions, waves cleared and total game time
MODE SELECTION
Now let's take a step back and have a look at what are the different options for DotO:
Note: as you can see for DotO you can choose the difficulty because it will only determine the power of the monsters.
The "normal - 1 entrance" on the "options" pane is refered to the conditions of the outpost (more on this just under here)
Let's click on "change" and:
In the "details" pane you can see the conditions of the outpost once the game starts plus it let's you know how rewarding the side-quests are.
I'm sure you noticed the "1 entrance to defend" option at the bottom of the details pane.
What does that mean?
It means that the player can choose how many entrances the outpost will have.
This will make the game a lot harder not only for the fact that the player has to defend the outpost from multiple-side attacks but also that he has to destroy a number of Demonic Shards equal to the number of entrances (and remember that every Demonic Shard will increase the effects of Demonic Influence)!
The map layout will be something like this:
2 entrances:
3 entrances:
4 entrances:
Note: have a look on the minimap as well
Infernal Rift
Infernal Rift is the last suggestion I have (finally ;D).
WHAT IS INFERNAL RIFT?
The player has to reach a "room" where he can find the Infernal Rift and then seal it.
To accomplish this he has to complete quests and gain control of strategic areas that gives him buffs of his choice.
Once the rift is sealed he can take his just rewards.
HEROIC MODE
Once inside the game the player has to gain control of strategic areas and to do this he has to kill the watch towers:
and place his banner in its place:
Before gaining control of an area the banner has to maximize its influence.
This will take some time and in this time the player has to defend the banner from monsters' attacks (if the banner is destroyed he has to replace it and re-do the "operation").
Once he gained control of the area:
he can choose which buff to gain:
The buff affects the player only while he's inside the area of control. Different areas can have different buffs if the player decides so.
Gaining control of areas is very important because once the player has all areas under his control he will be able to enter in the Infernal Rift room and complete his "mission".
Unfortunately gaining control of areas is not very easy because banners can be attacked by monsters once in a while and also because there might be some "closed paths" that will force the player to do some quests if he wants to proceed:
Take the quest, complete it...
... and go back to gain control of other areas.
Once all areas are under the player's control the Infernal Rift room will open and a boss will spawn.
The player has to kill the boss and destroy the Infernal Rift to be victorious.
Note: once you can target the Infernal Rift (it's invulnerable until you kill the boss) and you attack it, it will keep spawning monsters (both normal and elite) until you completly destroy it.
NEPHALEM MODE
It works much like the "heroic mode" but you will have no quests, maps will be "mirror-style maps", rewards will be PvP-oriented (if they will ever exist) and it will be a speed-run mode.
You objective is always the same: seal the Infernal Rift.
To do this you have to gain control of all areas on your side of the map.
This will open your door and lock other player's doors that grant access to the "central room" (the Infernal Rift is inside this room).
Here's an example of a 1vs1 match:
Note: once the "central room" is opened, the random monsters' attacks to your banners will stop.
Note 2: mirror-style maps might be something like this: http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/monk/TLMC2/korpolusmall2.jpg (thanks SC2 :D)
"white dots" are the spawning locations of each player in a ALL VS ALL match.
If you succeed in sealing the Infernal Rift you will take all the rewards for your own.
But if you die... well... you won't be able to resurrect, other players' doors will unlock and you will lose your chance to win.
Q&A
In DotO what's the point in wasting time between a wave and another to upgrade the outpost/soldiers or accept side-quests? Isn't it better to just go straight for the Demonic Shards?
For certain cases probably you are right. Maybe in the case where you have just one entrance you'd better go directly for the Demonic Shard.
But did you think that you can choose a harder difficulty and/or more than one entrance?
In the case of more than one entrance, if you go for one Demonic Shard are you sure you will be able to find it, kill all the demons to reach it, kill the boss, destroy the Demonic Shard and go back in time before your outpost is overwhelmed by monsters?
Did you think about allowing the "upgraded outpost buff" to be active only while inside the outpost itself and not "global"?
Yes, I thought about it and I think it will make DotO even more challenging.
The only thing is that Demonic Influence "numbers" have to be balanced.
Will there be only one map for DotO?
Well I'd like to have at least 3/4 different maps
Your numbers/values are all screwed!
As I wrote earlier numbers/values are just examples
This also includes the time between waves in DotO.
What happens if a player of the other team gain control of all areas at the same as me in the Infernal Rift?
Well... I don't thin it can happen. There is always a 0,0001 sec of difference between two actions ;D
Don't you think that the Extreme difficulty in Wave of Death is a bit too... extreme? C'mon... 1 boss every 5 waves plus frequent random spawns and normal minions are elite minions?!
I say: why not?
I mean.. players asked for challenges! Then give them challenges!
You are not forced to play on that difficulty... you can still enjoy Wave of Death in a lower difficulty But Wave of Death is just another suggestion of the usual endless wave game. Why bother to suggest it again? I think that giving Blizzard different variations of this type of game might allow them to find something new and interesting to implement. Also.. if you suggest it once again they might really implement it DamienJohn suggested the challenge mode just a few days ago. In his post he also suggested the "Infernal Tower" feature that is similar to your Wave of Death. Did you just steal his ideas for your own glory? Absolutely no. I read his thread and I liked it a lot.
Wave of Death, Infernal Tower or whatever you name it it's always the same suggestion that the community has been asking for quite some time now: an endless wave game with increasingly difficulty monsters. Similar ideas but with some differences (I wrote this just above here). The only thing I stole from him was the name of the new game mode "Challenge mode" because I think it's very fitting for a mode that can include both PvP and PvEvP. Defence of the Outpost and Infernal Rift ideas weren't suggested by anyone else.Or did I really miss that awesome post where someone suggested similar ideas?
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That's all guys!
I hope you enjoyed it (the few ones who were able to read till here at least )!
Let me know what you think.
TLDR Version
Introducing Challenge Mode.
Challenge mode will have 3 different "sub-modes": Wave of Death, Defence of the Outpost and Infernal Rift.
Wave of Death
It is one of the most popular features that this community would like to have in the game.
It's an "arena" where you have to fight waves of increasing difficulty monsters.
The player can also choose some "particular" options to make the game harder.
Defence of the Outpost
Defence of the Outpost or DotO is similar to a "monsters wave" game but it's very different in philosophy.
You have to destroy the Demonic Shards that are the cause of the demonic invasion on the region.
Unfortunately there are many villagers and soldiers that ask for help so you have also to protect them.
So your mission is to protect the soldiers while at the same time put an end to the demonic invasion by destroying the Demonic Shards.
You can also upgrade your outpost and soldiers and you can do side-quests to help you claim victory.
The player can also choose the starting conditions of the outpost (quantity of soldiers, starting resources etc.)
Infernal Rift
Solo/cooperative: The player has to reach a "room" where he can find the Infernal Rift and then seal it.
To accomplish this he has to complete quests and gain control of strategic areas that gives him buffs of his choice.
Competitive: the player has to reach a "central room" where he can find the Infernal Rift and then seal it before opponent players.
To accomplish this he has to gain control of strategic areas that gives him buffs of his choice.
It's a speedrun game but if the player dies he cannot resurrect and other players will have the possibility to claim both treasure and victory.
The game will be played on mirror-like maps. Much like this one: http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/monk/TLMC2/korpolusmall2.jpg
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DamienJohn posted a message on "Advancing" Advanced TooltipsPosted in: Diablo III General DiscussionSo I've been compiling a list of feedback and bugs to report for the Beta, but I just wanted to quickly share this as a QoL suggestion.
Cooldown Reduction, Resource Cost Reduction and +Skill% are all fantastic additions to the game, but I feel their benefits need more succinct representation in the UI. I really love that we can now view stat ranges on items when holding CTRL, so I thought, why not apply a similar function to Skill tooltips that shows their effective values. I made this quick mock-up as an example of how this display would function and what it would look like.
I feel this type of direct presentation makes those stats feel more tangible, while allowing for much more efficient theorycrafting.
Any thoughts on this? Or perhaps alternatives?
Edit: Dude, terrible spelling. - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
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Exactly.
The doomsday prophecies are purposely engineered in order to cast fear into our conciousness. This act is done by negative entities which in some way or another are also "serving" us by doing so.
It is important that we as human beings will not give in to these fearsome thoughts because its just what they want. By "they" i mean the negative entities both from our planet and not.
About the numerology. It has been the tool of the new world order to direct ways of thought. If you do a bit of research you will see that numerology is everywhere. Their goal is to prevent positive thinking and they do so by casting fear into our hearts.
We should all think positively. Always imagine in your head the safety and good of us all. Imagine love for everyone and everything. Only like this we can minimize the damage done to our planet and population from the destructive period that is up ahead.
I will go this far and say that the earthquake in Japan was not a natural disaster. IT was created by a weapon that groups like the Illuminati possess. Again, the purpose is fear and negativity. Directing ways of thought and conciousness of the masses. This is how they nailed the numerological part by the way. Another tool to make people believe in this and say, "Hey, maybe the world is actually going to end in 2012?" and then, creating more fear and doubt.
Dont believe the news. The reactors are not going to explode and kill everyone. These reactors are old and were not fuly operative when they were hit by the quake. We are not going to see Chernobyl again. Again, attempts to cast fear. The media is the main tool of the new world order groups.
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What matters is, that TL provided us something that D3 will have. It was good while it lasted. Something to quench our thirst for a decent Diablo game.
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I think double crossbow wielding isnt that bad to be honest. I just know im not going to be using double crossbows. If i ever make a DH ill use a bow thank you very much.
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Roll it up before the cops come. Roll it up i dont want to wake up. My dear only one hit is enough for me. Smoke till we speak chinese "michanchunamichanchi" (chinese gibrish) xD
Dawerha means roll it up.
Yea its not a serious song of his, but is funny and good nontheless.
Pink Floyd - One of these days
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj_S_F4rp68&feature=related
One of the best tracks of all time imo. (I cant find a good version of it on youtube )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN2HOomnwAE
I like Nirvana's version of this song.
Oh and i listend to these 2 songs you posted Az and i liked the first one a bit, the second one was meh.
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We cannot discriminate against religious people and say that their views are primitive because its not about the small numbers and facts. Its about the whole picture, its about the belief.
I think people should stop looking at the holy books and saying "this is how we should live" but say "Hey, lets learn how to be better people" because in the end all the religions say the exact same things.
If a strictly religious man was to be considered primitive or ignorant, he would be no different than an athiest trying to prove that religions are wrong all day.
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