Having an arena PvP mode and an actual matchmaker might not be the fully featured PvP that many, including me, would like, but saying it is 0% is a bit of a stretch, isn't?
I'd say it's more 80% PvE and 20% PvP.
The problem of developing all those modes is exactly that. They take precious development time. They won't just put it in the game and go "screw it, we won't even discuss the feature, just add a horde mode with random monsters", if they're going to add something, it has to be nearly perfect. That's their developer's philosophy, not an absolutist ideology, and it has worked pretty well until today.
That was a little hyperbole to illustrate my point. But if you think one map and hidden ranking system took 20% of the development time compared to the rest of the PvM game you're delusional.
I'd say it's about 3% PvP and 97% PvE in terms of hours spent developing. I would be perfectly happy with 80/20, but if that were the case we'd have some amazing competitive formats to look forward to in Diablo 3.
I really don't see why everyone either classifies themselves as a "PvE" player or a "PvP" player. Surely there must be some like-minded folks out there who agree that a good mix would add some great flavor to the game.
If you ask me I'd include world PvP. Fighting groups of players who have to get to a certain point and capture/kill an objective. You'd have a huge map at your disposal, like the marshes from Act 3 of D2.
Arena is just too boring and predictable.
This idea sounds ridiculously fun.
Content racing, objective based PvP, arena (all formats), hoard mode, "winner takes all" duels (team and solo), and so much more could make this game absolutely incredible and give it infinite replay value. Too bad it probably won't be given any development focus whatsoever because of some absolutist ideology that diablo must be a 100% pve game.
Like the title inquires; Does anyone know Diablo 3 server locations, specifically server locations of US EAST and US WEST (assuming the server format is identical to D2)?
I'm trying to ping test to see where I'd get the most efficient ping (I suggest everyone do this, it takes a couple of seconds at pingtest.net and can really affect your gameplay!)
I, personally, would rather see the absolute most godly equipment nearly impossible to find, while maintaining a reasonable drop rate for "great" gear. This allows for virtually endless item hunting capability which in turn gives the game goals to reach for even longer replay value.
I don't know why people are saying runes will be "useless" once socketed into an ability. That's what Diablo is all about; bartering with the items you find in order to work towards your ideal build. Just because it isn't the perfect rune for you doesn't mean you can't trade it for what you're after.
I understand the argument that it will be very disappointing to find a high level rune, socketing it, and rolling a useless modifier that no one will want, but that's just the nature of an insanely complex system with so much diversity. And everyone will have the same chance as you, therefore looking at it from a broader economic perspective, everyone has the same chance to roll an awesome useful rune as they do to roll useless ones. On a large economic scale, that's actually good for the economy, because if everything was useful, it's value would decline. Everything is relative when put on a huge economic scale like the RMAH is seeking to achieve.
TLDR; I'm loving the randomness and diversity of the system - makes for extremely exciting, and virtually infinite, item hunting.
I can already see everyone selfishly gearing with full mf sets kiting around to stay alive because no one can do or take any damage. God mf is such a pointles and unneeded stat to implement. I hop it doesn't ruin d3 gameplay like it did d2.
This is exactly why competitive pvp and game modes should be develoed and supported ( I.e. Content racing, "hoard mode," etc.). Eventually the story line will end. There needs to be some form of cometition to encourage loot farming for more than it's own sake, and of course the given that these options would be insanely fun!
At the most basic level, I'm simply asking for more development for PvP. Some balance between e-sports and unranked, meaningless TDM matches. That should be simple enough logic for most to follow. There is literally infinite amount of detail in between those 2 options. Hopefully the developers of this game dedicate some resources to that development, because it could add some incredible replay value and depth to the game after the dust settles and all the monsters are slain.
Everything else is simply ideas I've thrown out that I think would add some great flavor to the game.
Ugh, I'm so exhausted addressing this argument. There is a middle ground between E-sports and no competition whatsoever. Using the argument that "people MIGHT think this" to completely void out all competition in a game that people could enjoy is slightly insulting to those who would choose to participate. This narrow minded view is doing a huge disservice to imagining what could make this game great.
It is understandable that you are exhausted addressing this argument, because it isn't mine nor from the others you have addressed to. They are from Blizzard, it's official. I'm not saying that I agree with them, IMO a PVP ladder would be fine, I wouldn't try it, but many people would. That's fine by me.
Furthermore, competition doesn't HAVE to be relegated to PvP. Hoard mode, content racing, and I'm sure more could be implemented which PvMrs could squeeze a tremendous amount of enjoyment and replay value out of.
Now you are changing the original subject (or what I thought was the original subject), you are NOT asking for more PVP, you are asking for a Custom Game feature, which may or may not be followed by a public map creator just like SC2 and WC3. I think Blizzard already discarded that idea for some reasons I can't remember, search for them if you like, but while I believe the expasions will bring news to the known systems just as improve PVP modes, I don't believe in anything far different from the game focus.
And calm down, my posts contain no arguments, just some quotes from Blizzard and some opinions (which are very well determined when they start and end). I'm not trying to convince you that you are wrong, just trying to make you remember abou some announcements that showed that Blizzard have a different focus for D3.
I'm honestly just disappointed at the lack of imagination in the competition development of this game. The core game is fantastic, but it's really sad to see an extremely strong core engine and design go to waste on finite content that will be rolled through in a couple of months. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Diablo PvM, but it eventually ends. With systems in place that encourage competition, the game literally never ends, and actually begins to coincide synergistically with the PvM hamster-wheel game to achieve stronger and stronger characters to compete with.
For the record, those were just ideas. You basically asked what my I wanted, personally, from Diablo 3. I really don't see how implementing some competition modes into the game could be detrimental at all, or even require that much design time when compared with PvE content development. I actually think it would be extremely beneficial to the game and add new dynamics that would attract a wider player base.
Ok having read through a lot of all this over the past couple of days and I might be able to shed some light on what's going on, although almost everything that I'll say has already been said, I'm just attempting to put it into one post.
It's obvious we have a conflict, and while I could go into extreme detail I'll just clump a lot of it together to make it a little smoother. The PVP crowd wants competition AND balance, the PVE crowd doesn't want anything to change (in extreme cases for both), for the most part. As far as the pvp crowd goes, I believe you are meeting with a lot of resistance because you are 'scaring' the pve crowd. Now I know it's not everyone but its my belief that there are enough posts suggesting full overhauls of class skills, complete removal of some skills from the arena, and/or a change on said skills ( this coming from the demand for ranking, which a majority of people i would say believe that goes hand in hand with extreme balancing). Coming from the pve perspective i completely understand why i would just say screw it don't change a thing, aka 'go play pvp somewhere else'. I know i wouldn't want my skills to be split/deleted just for pvp.
Now to the pve side of people, you need to understand that there is almost jack shit for pvp at the moment, and its easy to understand their frustration. I realize that you as pve'ers don't want to see those awesome skills gone just for pvp ( i know i know another extreme, but I'm just trying to relay what some peoples thoughts are), especially when the argument has been made many times this game is leaning towards pve.
My solution (stolen from like 25 peoples posts put together) is almost what blizzard has already done: In the case of skills, I would only allow slight changes such as stun/snare/dot duration reduction, and some slight increase in CD's of SOME skills. Now obviously this won't balance the game completely, but I think its enough to satisfy the pvp crowd in terms of SOME sort of balance. I would also add a ranking system of some kind ( Maybe split it, like you can go into ranked or unranked matches), and add a couple different game types. Do PVP'ers agree that this would satisfy (maybe not 100%) what you are looking for? And for PVE'ers, would you agree that this won't dynamically change the game in your opinion, and can you live with it?
Absolutely. I think most PvPers are just grasping for some form of support from the devs, not anything close to E-sport balance. I honestly think the PvP game and PvE would work synergistically to create an amazing game with an enormous amount of replay value and high fun-factor if done right.
If we're looking at it from a WoW perspective, something akin to the balance in rated battlegrounds rather than arena. That's probably a horrible comparison but it should give some idea to the level of balance PvPers SHOULD be expecting from Diablo 3.
Ok, so we've established most of this is based on WoW. Thanks. That makes the arguemnts a little more fluid in that we have a point of reference.
No, you seem to make huge jumps in logic when they simply aren't there. Re-read my statements, in context. I was responding to your question about similar genres that have successfully achieved a harmony between PvP and PvE. WoW is pretty much the only model for comparison there.
My suggestions are completely independent from WoW and are suggested entirely on the basis of improvement of the game Diablo 3 for folks who enjoy a little competition mixed with their PvE endeavors.
1- They clearly stated that the decision of not having a ladder is because that would make the game feel e-sport-like. They don't want to encourage that kind of thought, that is a design decision, not a thing that they won't do due time.
Ugh, I'm so exhausted addressing this argument. There is a middle ground between E-sports and no competition whatsoever. Using the argument that "people MIGHT think this" to completely void out all competition in a game that people could enjoy is slightly insulting to those who would choose to participate. This narrow minded view is doing a huge disservice to imagining what could make this game great.
2- As I said, I expect to see improvements in PVP in the next expansions. While I don't think this "feels like Diablo", maybe the fanbase doesn't and there's room for that. But time will tell. Personally, IMO, this feels a lot like Magicka, SC2 and WC3 custom games, and such.
I can't debate something you're feeling over the internet. This argument can't really be responded to. I'm simply suggesting some fun mechanics that could be added that many people would enjoy and improve the game. If it doesn't "feel" right to you, do not participate.
3- Same explanation of 1. They clearly stated that they DONT want people to think PVP is for competition, it is only for fun.
The vast majority of PvPers consider competition and fun to be synonymous. Competition is the very nature of PvP, at it's very heart.
Furthermore, competition doesn't HAVE to be relegated to PvP. Hoard mode, content racing, and I'm sure more could be implemented which PvMrs could squeeze a tremendous amount of enjoyment and replay value out of.
But you made it sound as though the ideal level of pvp development (presumably what you're talking about in this latest post) exists already in another game. What games are we drawing on (obviously mmo's, fps, etc) to make this list? And as I continued on to ask, what kind of relationship do those games have with D3?
I mean, it's all well and good to pick out an aspect of one game that you like, but we should pay some attention to how we adapt these things cross-title.
I've already addressed that point. I was specifically referring to the LMS format that we had already seen when stating "we've seen it." You simply took that out of context.
The closest model we've seen is WoW, where PvE and PvP abilities were not separated. That game turned out pretty fantastic, although I'm sure people will find a way to bash it. I'm simply suggesting that more support for competition in the game will pay off exponentially in terms of replay value, fun, and therefore customer satisfaction. I've stated my points many, many times. It's very easy to be negative and poke holes in ideas. It requires no imagination, simply a cynical attitude. If you're happy with how the game is, i.e. no competition that matter and a simple PvE grind for gear, just sit back, relax and wait for release. I'm not suggesting anything that will affect your enjoyment of the game, because everything I've suggested should be optional.
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That was a little hyperbole to illustrate my point. But if you think one map and hidden ranking system took 20% of the development time compared to the rest of the PvM game you're delusional.
I'd say it's about 3% PvP and 97% PvE in terms of hours spent developing. I would be perfectly happy with 80/20, but if that were the case we'd have some amazing competitive formats to look forward to in Diablo 3.
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This idea sounds ridiculously fun.
Content racing, objective based PvP, arena (all formats), hoard mode, "winner takes all" duels (team and solo), and so much more could make this game absolutely incredible and give it infinite replay value. Too bad it probably won't be given any development focus whatsoever because of some absolutist ideology that diablo must be a 100% pve game.
Not 99%, not 95%, ONE HUNDRED PERCENT.
Insane.
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I'm trying to ping test to see where I'd get the most efficient ping (I suggest everyone do this, it takes a couple of seconds at pingtest.net and can really affect your gameplay!)
Please don't post unless you have solid info.
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I don't know why people are saying runes will be "useless" once socketed into an ability. That's what Diablo is all about; bartering with the items you find in order to work towards your ideal build. Just because it isn't the perfect rune for you doesn't mean you can't trade it for what you're after.
I understand the argument that it will be very disappointing to find a high level rune, socketing it, and rolling a useless modifier that no one will want, but that's just the nature of an insanely complex system with so much diversity. And everyone will have the same chance as you, therefore looking at it from a broader economic perspective, everyone has the same chance to roll an awesome useful rune as they do to roll useless ones. On a large economic scale, that's actually good for the economy, because if everything was useful, it's value would decline. Everything is relative when put on a huge economic scale like the RMAH is seeking to achieve.
TLDR; I'm loving the randomness and diversity of the system - makes for extremely exciting, and virtually infinite, item hunting.
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Everything else is simply ideas I've thrown out that I think would add some great flavor to the game.
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I'm honestly just disappointed at the lack of imagination in the competition development of this game. The core game is fantastic, but it's really sad to see an extremely strong core engine and design go to waste on finite content that will be rolled through in a couple of months. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Diablo PvM, but it eventually ends. With systems in place that encourage competition, the game literally never ends, and actually begins to coincide synergistically with the PvM hamster-wheel game to achieve stronger and stronger characters to compete with.
For the record, those were just ideas. You basically asked what my I wanted, personally, from Diablo 3. I really don't see how implementing some competition modes into the game could be detrimental at all, or even require that much design time when compared with PvE content development. I actually think it would be extremely beneficial to the game and add new dynamics that would attract a wider player base.
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Absolutely. I think most PvPers are just grasping for some form of support from the devs, not anything close to E-sport balance. I honestly think the PvP game and PvE would work synergistically to create an amazing game with an enormous amount of replay value and high fun-factor if done right.
If we're looking at it from a WoW perspective, something akin to the balance in rated battlegrounds rather than arena. That's probably a horrible comparison but it should give some idea to the level of balance PvPers SHOULD be expecting from Diablo 3.
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No, you seem to make huge jumps in logic when they simply aren't there. Re-read my statements, in context. I was responding to your question about similar genres that have successfully achieved a harmony between PvP and PvE. WoW is pretty much the only model for comparison there.
My suggestions are completely independent from WoW and are suggested entirely on the basis of improvement of the game Diablo 3 for folks who enjoy a little competition mixed with their PvE endeavors.
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Ugh, I'm so exhausted addressing this argument. There is a middle ground between E-sports and no competition whatsoever. Using the argument that "people MIGHT think this" to completely void out all competition in a game that people could enjoy is slightly insulting to those who would choose to participate. This narrow minded view is doing a huge disservice to imagining what could make this game great.
I can't debate something you're feeling over the internet. This argument can't really be responded to. I'm simply suggesting some fun mechanics that could be added that many people would enjoy and improve the game. If it doesn't "feel" right to you, do not participate.
The vast majority of PvPers consider competition and fun to be synonymous. Competition is the very nature of PvP, at it's very heart.
Furthermore, competition doesn't HAVE to be relegated to PvP. Hoard mode, content racing, and I'm sure more could be implemented which PvMrs could squeeze a tremendous amount of enjoyment and replay value out of.
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I've already addressed that point. I was specifically referring to the LMS format that we had already seen when stating "we've seen it." You simply took that out of context.
The closest model we've seen is WoW, where PvE and PvP abilities were not separated. That game turned out pretty fantastic, although I'm sure people will find a way to bash it. I'm simply suggesting that more support for competition in the game will pay off exponentially in terms of replay value, fun, and therefore customer satisfaction. I've stated my points many, many times. It's very easy to be negative and poke holes in ideas. It requires no imagination, simply a cynical attitude. If you're happy with how the game is, i.e. no competition that matter and a simple PvE grind for gear, just sit back, relax and wait for release. I'm not suggesting anything that will affect your enjoyment of the game, because everything I've suggested should be optional.