DiabloFans

Quote from DeepThought

Unfortunately neither the Invulnerable Wizard nor the Permanent Charge Barbarian exploits can prevent you from dying of boredom.

Quote from zeroRooter

Quote from justame

Quote from Ichabod13

where was the endgame in d2...and wtf is this endgame people keep bitching about in d3. If you don't enjoy the game, go play something you do. Don't come on here and complain because you thought this game was something else...

Exactly!!! I am so sick of people complaining of "no end game content". Obviously they never played D1 or D2 and came here from WoW expecting Raids at end game...ROFL!!! Go play CoD and stop bothering us with your whining.

wtf are you guys talking about there was no end-game in d2?!??! Ladder resets, ladder climbs, dueling, spontaneous HC pking etc... etc...


diablo 3 has none of that and no replacements watsoever, AND, the rest of the game is stoopid, 200+ million for an upgrade? gtfo, give me back my cheap useful ik set WILSON!!!!!!!

Because all of those things existed at release, right? Bzzzzt, wrong.

Ladders weren't introduced until October 2003, TWO YEARS after Diablo 2 released. You know what else debuted in October 2003? Talent synergy, which meant builds became varied, and like, exciting. I don't expect you to let the details get in the way of your blather, though.

Pst, you know PvP is coming, right? Like, more than lolautoattack duels, or some scrub scroll-lock killing you from across the map? Or some trap assassin cockblocking you at the gate, preventing body retrieval? Such a deep, deep system D2 PvP was. Oh yeah, bring that back please.

What a goober.

Quote from maka

Quote from Zakaz

People farmed for hundreds of hours in Diablo 2 to get the best gear in the game, don't kid yourself.

"People" farmed? "Don't kid yourself"? He just talked about what he liked to do in D2, and here you come and try to tell him what "people" do? Damn, I thought he was "people"...Damn, I thought I was "people". Because, and this may come as a shock to you, I liked to use completed low level sets and uniques on alts. But I guess we're not "people". Must be some kind of alien or something. Go troll some other thread.

My god man, you are really dense. Let me re-quote the post I was responding to, with the part related to your semantics rant bolded for emphasis.

Quote from Soul

grats on the lucky drops, but in all honesty... we should be seeing a shit load more legendaries and sets... Remember legendary is the new name for uniques so they aren't meant to be so bloody rare that you find shit all of them... They also need to be powerful if they are to be of legendary status.

Don't get me started on how crap the items are in D3 atm. All the rage is about the items sucking so bad with nothing to find bar stupid rares since the sets and legendaries have crappy stats(most). You should not be playing for 320 hours to find 1 or 2 fucking set pieces in a diablo game PERIOD...

Go play a game of Diablo 2 classic or LOD play through to act 5 hell and tell me how many uniques and sets you find now compare that to Diablo 3... You see where everyone is coming from? Don't say you can't compare a 10yr old game to a new release, this should have been done a long long time ago. When you release a sequel it is generally a lot better than the predecessor.

I'm gonna stop here cause man it just isn't a diablo game atm...

The implication here was that because legendary items (even low level ones) aren't dropping like candy from a pinata, this game sucks balls and is actually no longer a Diablo series title. I mean, there's no embellishment there. We'll ignore the warped reality that an item denoted as "legendary" is to be of amazing power always (because something of "legend" is clearly always immortal, all-powerful, etc, and never has anything to do with lore alone /sarcasm), including the very basis for the game we're playing which would indicate that will never be, nor has ever been the case.

It must really suck to see everything in black and white, eh? But hey, those previous posts where you use ad-hominem to respond to someone really makes you the epitome of an upstanding poster around here, right? Enough to warrant your dismissal of others as a troll because they made you look stupid.

-Edit: Indication of sarcasm for the brain-dead.

Selling things just fine, still making profit. Anecdotal thread is anecdotal.

I'm fairly certain I can narrow the problem down, though (without putting on my tinfoil hat).

-OP is unaware of item/stat valuation and is listing items for too much.
-OP is unaware that players search for specific criteria on a regular basis, often with common baseline values for specific items. As such, OP does not know how to game the search such that his item actually appears in a large quantity of searches.
-OP is selling junk

That about covers all of the PEBKAC errors preventing efficient AH usage.

Quote from BigEd781

It does though. The whole notion of "everyone will be forced to play one class/spec" is somewhat fictitious. I agree that, if class X were 100% more powerful than class Y, there would be a problem. That's theoretical and not very helpful in a real discussion. if class X is 5% stronger than class Y I don't really care. Talking "balance" in an ARPG is a complete joke to me.

And again, I don't care if farming goblins is far more lucrative than farming elites. It's fun to feel like you've broken the game (something Blizz has acknowledged as well, though their actions are somewhat in conflict). I will merrily farm goblins to my heart's content, until I get bored, and then I will do something else. I'm not *forced* to only farm goblins. It is a fallacy, no matter how many times one repeats it.

No one has ever said they're "forced" - the term used was "feel compelled," which is a subtle but important difference in the idea behind nerfing things that are "broken" or "imbalanced." It is absolutely not a fallacy, because you're basing the idea of fairness on the fact that the exploitation of flawed mechanics does not affect other players, when in fact it does (because your lack of care on the subject does not void the opinion of others).

Blizzard has made quite clear they're ok with some things feeling really powerful, or almost cheesy, until it affects other players in a significant manner; saturating the market or altering gold worth is a significant manner.

Quote from BigEd781

I don't care about the economy. Really, I don't. It doesn't change things on the micro level, i.e., me buying something from another normal player who doesn't have 10 billion gold. We're still on the same scale here, so it doesn't matter. And again, I just don't care. Making game changes to support the AH (I can't think of another reason) is a mistake. Sure, we don't want rampant dupes, but that's not what we're talking about here.

I care about having fun. When changes are made in the name of "balance" that result in the game being slightly less fun (for me at least), then the change is a bad one and the devs have failed.

All that said, I still like the game, I just feel that this obsession with "balance" and eliminating farming "exploits" is misguided. I realize others disagree with me, and you're opinion is no more or less valid than my own, these are simply my views. And I also realize this has been brought up many times, so I will stop harping on it now

The slippery slope you're arguing is that even if something is inherently unfair, players can just work around it, because they're not literally forced to partake in the action. As I mentioned above, this is false because while they are not required to take part in it, they feel compelled to do so because it does affect them, either via buying, selling, or their being forced to do neither in an effort to extend their play time.

Quote from Siaynoq

Quote from Zakaz

Erm, a percentage tax is proportional. If it was a flat amount (say 10k) - that would be disproportionately small the higher you went in selling price. A percentage is the best option.

No I'm saying right now it's like 15 percent on all transactions.

But for people like me that ain't grinding in Inferno with the best gear and super high MF, I'm only making small sells occasionally ranging from 5-20k gold. But the percentage that gets deducted from my sell is the same as someone who sells something for 6 million gold. So I'm saying I wish if it was anything below 20k, that it would take less than 15 percent of the transaction.

I get what you're saying, but it's problematic in that someone, somewhere, will end up being charged a disproportionate amount of "tax" on their item relative to what they feel is fair for that price range. Your argument is a smaller percentage on smaller value items, but that means there has to be a line drawn somewhere, IE:

1-25,000 is taxed at 5%; 25,001-100,000 is taxed at 10%, etc. This creates multiple problems.

First, it makes artificial barriers in the market, essentially making certain price ranges not viable, or a total loss. Someone isn't going to sell an item at 100,001 gold when they can sell it at 100,000 and save themselves a 5% tax on the end sale.

You also encounter a matter of fairness when it comes to total gold lost. 15% on 10,000 gold is only 1,500 gold, whereas a 15% hit on 10,000,000 is 150,000. Reducing that 15% on the low end of the spectrum makes an incredibly small impact, and you have unrest at the top where people are paying in the 6-figure range that same tax. You can make an argument that the high-end item tax is where the real bulk of the gold-sink has an effect, but you still have human perception to deal with.

The end result is a flat percentage across the board. Players selling things for small amounts generally chalk it up to a couple of gold drops their next run, and the players selling the big-time items tend to look past it and say "I still made 40 million gold after the cut."

All in all, I believe the system is as fair as it can get (and a required function, lest you want your next upgrade to cost 200,000,000 gold for an "average" item).

Edit - redundant words are redundant

Quote from Siaynoq

Quote from Zakaz

It absolutely does serve a point. If gold was never removed from the game, the total amount of gold available for purchasing would increase forever. As a direct result of gold being "infinite" in supply, prices would continue to rise as well. This means new players, or people who don't play regularly or as often as the average player, are effectively shut out of making any purchases.

The current prices aren't even remotely close to what one could expect to see without gold sinks. Think items in the billions, instead of millions; eventually that becomes the hundreds of billions.

Gold sinks matter. A lot.

It'd still be nice if the tax was proportional up to a point where selling things under 50k were penalized less than 15 percent and then as amount of gold earned through a transaction was much higher it would also be taxed somewhat proportionately.

Erm, a percentage tax is proportional. If it was a flat amount (say 10k) - that would be disproportionately small the higher you went in selling price. A percentage is the best option.

Quote from Cerberus_Black

Quote from Siaynoq

My problem with AH is house there's little market for mid-range items. Or like, in Inferno I actually wish more items with a level req below 60 would drop. Like, people are just gonna save up millions of gold to buy thee very best things they can possibly find. But it's hard to attract other players in the market for anything when they're just in Hell or maybe just starting Inferno that want to just gradually get better gear for under 100k.

Sometimes I can sell stuff for like 20-40k if I think it's a slightly better than average item. And so I purposefully price that stuff really low just so I can at least unload it cause I'll see the same semi-good/shitty gear for sell at like 10 times what I'm selling it for and I think it really is annoying what some people are still trying to get away with charging for things. At first it was amusing.

Also, this may sound like a stupid question....but why is Blizzard taking a portion of my gold from each successful sell I make? I understand with RMAH that they would get a commission, but why do it with gold transactions? They can just create gold out of thin air. Even now that you can buy gold, do they think there's a set value in real money for gold or something? Still it wouldn't make sense in that gold is just....virtual. You know?

I total agree, taking a % of fictional gold serves no point, i am finding that people are forced to use the AH to survive inferno, i did, not that this is wrong but i get the sense that eventually the Gold AH will be fazed out in favor of the real money AH, which will be VERY wrong

It absolutely does serve a point. If gold was never removed from the game, the total amount of gold available for purchasing would increase forever. As a direct result of gold being "infinite" in supply, prices would continue to rise as well. This means new players, or people who don't play regularly or as often as the average player, are effectively shut out of making any purchases.

The current prices aren't even remotely close to what one could expect to see without gold sinks. Think items in the billions, instead of millions; eventually that becomes the hundreds of billions.

Gold sinks matter. A lot.

Quote from Wryda

Quote from Zero(pS)

Why are you broke exactly? Did you spend most of your gold on vendors/AH, or did you spend too much on repairs? Or did you not pick up much gold up to this point?

In all honesty you shouldn't need to have to farm gold this early in the game, also stacks of gold that drop are really crappy (you're probably picking up 80-150 stacks), and some stuff on the AH is really overpriced right now, so maybe that's why you're low on gold (bought a couple overpriced items).

If you're having that much trouble in Nightmare I might be able to just give you some gold, or at maybe even find you some decent items on the AH. Add me in-game (Nomad#1741) and if I have some time I'll help you tonight

Ok, so I guess I'm not fully broke, I have like 100k (if I'm lucky) but I usually have around 30k. And also I dont really know what kind of armor is best and what to go for in the AH. I see a lot of Monk's doing high damage but I'm only doing a little bit compared to them, so if you guys also have any equipment suggestions or armor sets I should use let me know too!

Also thanks Zero for volunteering to help me and stuff.

You can probably pick up quite a few tips and tricks by jumping to the Monk forums and reading posts concerning end-game builds. While it's difficult to replicate stats early in the game, you can get a nice idea of what stats are valuable, especially relative to specific play-styles, and begin aiming for those.

Additionally, knowing what builds or stats benefit you can also benefit your gold supply by preventing deaths (via better gear and better strategy) and avoiding buying things you think are big upgrades, but really aren't.

You might also make your own post over there to ask for advice (noting your stats, build, expertise in games, especially Diablo, etc). Might get a good bit of help.

This thread is just what I needed today - a huge laugh.

You want a refund, but want to keep your progress, too? You also want Blizzard to answer questions of the future like they have a magical crystal ball?

Can we get a refund on the oxygen you're breathing?

I disagree. Legendaries are supposed to be that hard to get item. I know with 1.04 that they are making them extremely enticing. That's the point, it's supposed to be I want it, I WANT IT, I WANT IT. And then you play like 2 months straight until you get like legendary shield, but you don't want that so you trade around until you get that two hand sword, or whatever.

I know there is a mentality nowadays that says "everything should be accesible and I shouldn't have to grind my life away for it". But this is Diablo, not Warcraft. Just appreciate they are extremely good items now, and go chase after them until you get what you want. Legendaries are like a rare meta-game, even more now that they mean something.

And remember they are trying to add more meta-game systems, this just happens to be the first one they openly discussed. This meta-game is not supposed to be the one that keeps people playing 2 hours every night, though it will entice a handful too.

Quote from Daemaro

Guys calm down, please keep it civil.

I'm struggling to imagine a way this thread could ever be civil.

Quote from gotLuck

Well, I haven't played in about 3 weeks or so and I'm sad about it. I hope 1.0.4 makes the game fun. I hope pvp isn't too far off either.

This is the type of attitude that most whiners should have. Not happy with the game anymore? Go do something else and come back when it sound interesting enough, don't come up with a million reasons as to why the game sucks and whatnot.

Honestly, most people that complain non-stop and still play from time to time remind me of girls that get beaten/cheated/whatever horrible thing that can be done in a relationship by their companions, bitch about it to friends but never seem to quit the asshole.

I find myself bored a little after completing the game with my Monk, so I stopped playing as much. So, I'm now having fun leveling alts, laughing all the way at my awesomeness from purchasing Reduced Level Requirement weapons. I know, cheezy right? I don't care, I have fun and so should you, whatever which way you have it. If its not with this game, don't bore people to death with this rant crap.

Quote from Epking

Yup, but at least you can upgrade them with a cube recipe... oh wait..

Upgrade a unique with a cube recipe? How is that exactly?

Quote from Epking

Well they'll be good on one of your dozen different specced alts... oh wait..

Every Normal/Nightmare unique was pretty damn useless in D2 as well... and the Hell ones were damn hard to find

Quote from Epking

Well I'm sure they sell well... oh wait...

Everything except extremely rare runewords and a tiny handful of uniques was worthless in D2 kid

Quote from Epking

Well you can shard them for something useful... oh nvm...

Definitely couldn't do that in D2.

Quote from Epking

Vendor gold is still gold?

Gold was worth literally nothing in D2 so I'd say that vendoring is vastly more useful in D3!

Quote from BigEd781

Quote from insanetrasher

If you want to have fun play the game and farm, if you want gear play the AH.

And that be the problem.

It's more of a problem with the players who have become conditioned to exponential equipment improvement from mmo's than with the itemization and drop rates. As this thread has been over a few times now, we're not really experiencing dramatically lower levels of elite items, in-fact there are probably more on the AH than were in trade channels at a similar time in d2 (adjusted to the population difference).

The gulf between D2 player and D3 is that the D2 player has access to every act without a gear benchmark to worry about. The game was incredibly easy by comparison. With D3, players have access to act1-2 inferno and then have to make varying degrees of improvement (class dependent) in order to move up and repeat the farming process in acts 3 and 4. Rather than come to the realization that farming in a new zone right away is relatively meaningless, players have become upset that they can't mirror the results of streamers who have spent billions of gold and probably hundreds of real dollars/euros.

If you have 1-2 level 60 characters and spent a hundred million or more on each of them, it's fairly obvious you've moved a huge way up the equipment ladder. Since you only have the two classes represented, you'll also take no notice in any decent items you find for classes you don't have. At that point the amount of input, be it farming or shelling out gold/cash, necessary to find an upgrade will be much much higher. Personally, I have one character in ~5-7m worth of gear whom I can still find upgrades for (drops, mind you) every now and then. The rest of my characters, geared almost entirely from drops, find upgrades left and right.

The point being, if you actually care about the act of finding your upgrades, stop caring about farming act3, play a new class, and spend little to no gold on it. If you spend all your time looking for the best upgrade you can afford in the AH, you're just diminishing your chances of finding something better yourself.

Quote from Luedine

This is the said hyperbolic bullshit that Proleteria was talking about. You can make a reasonable point about what you feel are flaws, but when you make statements like that it tarnishes everything you've said with the taint of outright absurdity.

So you are not using the auctionhouse at all? In that case I tip my hat to you good sir, but the reality is this: You're keeping more items in Diablo 3 than in Diablo 2 because you may turn a potentional profit on them at the auctionhouse, that auctionhouse will then provide you with gear upgrades at a much accelerated rate rather than if you were to _farm_ the gear yourself.
As such you are infact, playing the Auctionhouse, you're farming with the intent of attaining more buyingpower.

That's like saying you were "playing the TradeChannel" in D2.

Show me the number of people who had Enigmas they obtained by farming not only the runes, but the perfect armor to put it in.

In D2 you kept less because the economy was so fucking jacked that rare runes, pskulls, and SoJs were the only currency you could use for trading. Unlike gold in D3, which takes absolutely zero inventory space, all of those did require inventory space - and let's not forget the charms that people were using and how much of a pain it was to move items to mules. Furthermore the items in D3 take up significantly less space in most cases. The dynamics of the inventory, the stash, and currency due to duping, is what makes people hang on to items they can sell for 10k in D3 - not because it's a damned auction house simulation.

D2 basically had a hard cutoff - if your item wasn't worth 1 pskull, 1 SoJ, or a Hel/Io rune, it was damn near impossible to justify keeping it, especially since you had to bug another player to put something on a bank mule. There were so many artifical limiting factors to the D2 economy from muling to inventory space to currency - this is not something that's dreamt up, it's the reality of the situation.

D3 has no such hard cutoff at which it becomes outright prohibitive to hold on to an item to attempt to sell, other than the obvious (<vendor value> / .85) below which you lose money on the AH. We have a much more flexible currency for trading. That is why people hang on to stuff that would have been left on the ground in D2. It's amazing how quickly people forget exactly what the limitations of D2 were. Really, and truly, amazing.

People would have kept all kinds of things in D2 but the CURRENCY did not support it. What the hell would you do with an item that was worth 1/2 of an SoJ? Don't fool yourself into thinking this is an AH problem - it's a problem with how inflexible the D2 economy was.

Quote from youwillneverknow

Quote from BigEd781

Quote from Brake Failure

Cuz its fun is the most obvious answer

Not sure if you're being sarcastic...

But the developers told us that non-stop farming is fun and thats all we need for an endgame... soo yes everyone should still be playing right?

No, the devs didn't "tell us" anything. The constant attempts by disgruntled players who are ignorant of how the series has worked thusfar to characterize Blizzard as a bunch of facist dictators is really annoying at this point.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me HOW/WHY killing Pindleskin 500 times per day was somehow much more entertaining than hunting for mostly-randomized champ/rare packs and then killing some bosses when we're done.

If your answer is "loot sucks in D3" well I think Blizzard is aware of that complaint and attempting to do something about it. That is a reasonable complaint (not one I'm 100% on board with, but one I do empathize with nonetheless).

If your answer is "farming isn't fun" then you're not someone the series is aimed at. Please go buy a different game and leave the real Diablo fans alone so that we can give relevant feedback and help push this game in the direction it should be going. The series has always been based on farming. Complaining that the devs are "telling us that farming is fun" or "forcing us to farm" is stupid because anyone who played D2 or D1 knew that this was the endgame. No true Diablo fan would be complaining about being "forced" to farm.

Quote from Riar

Diablo is a she, not he.

Giving away med-high end Inferno Act 3-4 Loot because I'm too damn lazy to AH

Only catch is that I want to have a little fun with it. I will be asking trivia questions for the items on twitch.tv/Mclilazng at 8 PM EST for the giveaways. Seriously please take these leet items away from me- my stash looks like an episode of hoarders.

PM me at MclilaznG#1631 if you would just like the free crafts and would not like to participate in the item giveaway.